Poll

Should higher levels of small arms deviation be in FH2?

No, keep the current system
Yes, a small amount of deviation is nice, to help make firefights a bit more possible.
Add a ton of deviation so that the game lasts longer and long range shots are almost impossible.

Author Topic: Should the devs incorporate small arms deviation into FH2. A poll  (Read 15285 times)

Offline jan_kurator

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Well, I voted for 2nd option, because I didn't understand question clearly and I should have voted for 1st option.... Only it should be improved for some LMG's - it's quite annoying that you cant kill guy aiming at his face 1m in front of him when youre standing... The same goes with FG42 - the deviation is too big! And still I don't understand why Im often shot with 1 bullet by guy who is running with smg (btw, this thread is about how to avoid getting one shot one kill from running smg gunner)... I need to shoot almost whole magazine to enemy's chest from 1 meter to kill him... This sucks...
That's the key of your statement. You simply don't understand how does it works in game, do you?

Offline SiCaRiO

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Don't you guys remember 2.0? There was deviation there and every day the whining of "I aimed directly at him, why didn't I hit?" At least today if people ask that you can point to the netcode.

2.0 had a lot of good features that are now removed, people also whined about the supression effect, and now, the last poll i made showed a huge mayority wanted it the way it was back then.

Offline Wulfburk

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No please no

Offline KevinWad

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Yes oh please yes

Offline Neighbor Kid

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i liked 2.0.. bring back alot of what was there...
track damage..
better supression..

deviation.. i never felt was there.. but uh.. i sure wish we had a tad bit right now.
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Offline VonMudra

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Well, I voted for 2nd option, because I didn't understand question clearly and I should have voted for 1st option.... Only it should be improved for some LMG's - it's quite annoying that you cant kill guy aiming at his face 1m in front of him when youre standing... The same goes with FG42 - the deviation is too big! And still I don't understand why Im often shot with 1 bullet by guy who is running with smg... I need to shoot almost whole magazine to enemy's chest from 1 meter to kill him... This sucks...
Seconded. The Bren, BAR and FG42 are way to inaccurate when undeployed

last time, a german soldier was like 50 meter away. Grabbed bren, went single, aimed.  miss
miss
miss
miss
At close range, i took full auto, had to fire 10 rounds before i scored a single hit

Yes, this :P

Offline Neighbor Kid

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Well, I voted for 2nd option, because I didn't understand question clearly and I should have voted for 1st option.... Only it should be improved for some LMG's - it's quite annoying that you cant kill guy aiming at his face 1m in front of him when youre standing... The same goes with FG42 - the deviation is too big! And still I don't understand why Im often shot with 1 bullet by guy who is running with smg... I need to shoot almost whole magazine to enemy's chest from 1 meter to kill him... This sucks...
Seconded. The Bren, BAR and FG42 are way to inaccurate when undeployed

last time, a german soldier was like 50 meter away. Grabbed bren, went single, aimed.  miss
miss
miss
miss
At close range, i took full auto, had to fire 10 rounds before i scored a single hit

Yes, this :P

pfft..

you missed? your a bad shot.. those are easy to get kills with they are not inaccurate.. you stop for a second to aim and your shot is dead on. the FG42 is a railgun if you miss with it its your fault at not aiming at the body. the bar is almost as accurate and the bren is the only weapon i can say standing aiming is worthless unless deployed but around 25-50 meters standing running aiming its a dead on shot.
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Offline Pascucci the Whiner

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The FG-42 inaccurate? If they boost the accuracy on that thing beyond what it has already, I'm gone, that thing is a beast.

Offline Watchtower1001

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The recoil on SMGs is way too overboard as is.  Add deviation, and I'm out.  The game needs SMG vs Rifle balance before anything else.  Deviation will absolutely kill this game.  


There are some great new games coming out, mostly BF3 for me.  

FH2 needs to improve their infantry combat if they plan on keeping their player base, because the new games are.  And keep improving it, every patch.  And that doesn't mean make the game like x, y or z game.  

Why only bank on the WW2 niche when you can bank on the fact that the game is just a great shooter?

For me, the Tank Combat is FH2 is a much more refined experience than the infantry combat in FH2, and it was very much that way in FH1 too.  It's clean, makes sense, and it's fun.  


Adding deviation will make the game feel much more clumsy than it can be at times when it comes to infantry combat, which in my opinion, as both a player and game designer, has some serious flaws and balance issues.

I still shake my head in dismay, and hear the groans of others when they fire 30 rounds of a thompson point blank to 30m and still lose to a fast 1-shotter with a k98.  In fact, a lot times, people will rush you when they see a SMG because they know the recoil is so severe that up close a lot of times, a Rifle will still win.  That is wrong.

The game needs SMG vs Rifle balance before anything else.  Deviation will absolutely kill this game.  

Reduce the recoil on the BAR, Thompson, MP40, Sten, Beretta, Bren, MP44, FG42 first and any other SMG/LMG.  

Then and only then, talk deviation.  There must be a trade-off.  If you take something away (accuracy) you must give something in return (reduced recoil), otherwise, you're gonna break the game.

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Offline General_Henry

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except the bren everything is actually fine. This is what, at least what a lone-wolf type of person (who do like teamplay/squadplay) sees. The Bren is only nice (actually super-nice) when you're fighting in the church stairs, which isn't what a LMG gunner should do anyway.

a little bit of deviation (for like 1 second) might be nice (it'd be something very similar to FH1), I don't think I need to explain it much to you all FH fanboys, it'd make so many strange "skills" useless at least.

Offline [130.Pz]S.Lainer

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There are some great new games coming out, mostly BF3 for me.  

FH2 needs to improve their infantry combat if they plan on keeping their player base, because the new games are.  And keep improving it, every patch.  And that doesn't mean make the game like x, y or z game.  

Why only bank on the WW2 niche when you can bank on the fact that the game is just a great shooter?

Funny..I was about to make the exact same post (Well kinda).  When I want to play a time killing FPS I hit up BFBC or BFBC2.  To me that is about as good as it gets for a straight up combined arms shooter.  I think FH2 is trying way to hard on the old BF2 engine to be the every mans shooter.  As hard as FH2 tries it is just not going to go head to head in the generic FPS department as BF3, BFBC or even shitty fucking FPS games like CODMW.  I say embrace the WW2 niche, embrace the teamplay aspects embrace all that can be squeezed out of the refractor 2 engine to set it apart from all the other shooters out there.  So much hard work has been done on graphics and sound end to immerse players into a WW2 battle only to have it ruined the minute two squads meet up on the streets for some loltastic Counter Strike gameplay.
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Offline Raziel

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Voted No. I like the present system.

Offline cannonfodder

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Voted Yes.

I don't often use pistols, but it should be harder aim accurately with them at medium or long range.

Offline LuckyOne

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The recoil on SMGs is way too overboard as is.  Add deviation, and I'm out.  The game needs SMG vs Rifle balance before anything else.  Deviation will absolutely kill this game.  


There are some great new games coming out, mostly BF3 for me.  

FH2 needs to improve their infantry combat if they plan on keeping their player base, because the new games are.  And keep improving it, every patch.  And that doesn't mean make the game like x, y or z game.  

Why only bank on the WW2 niche when you can bank on the fact that the game is just a great shooter?

For me, the Tank Combat is FH2 is a much more refined experience than the infantry combat in FH2, and it was very much that way in FH1 too.  It's clean, makes sense, and it's fun.  


Adding deviation will make the game feel much more clumsy than it can be at times when it comes to infantry combat, which in my opinion, as both a player and game designer, has some serious flaws and balance issues.

I still shake my head in dismay, and hear the groans of others when they fire 30 rounds of a thompson point blank to 30m and still lose to a fast 1-shotter with a k98.  In fact, a lot times, people will rush you when they see a SMG because they know the recoil is so severe that up close a lot of times, a Rifle will still win.  That is wrong.

The game needs SMG vs Rifle balance before anything else.  Deviation will absolutely kill this game.  

Reduce the recoil on the BAR, Thompson, MP40, Sten, Beretta, Bren, MP44, FG42 first and any other SMG/LMG.  

Then and only then, talk deviation.  There must be a trade-off.  If you take something away (accuracy) you must give something in return (reduced recoil), otherwise, you're gonna break the game.



The thing you are whining about would exactly be FIXED by adding some temporary deviation. Rifles now are imbalanced because you can get a pinpoint accurate shot in 0.2 seconds. IF they ad 1 second deviation when rushing with an SMG you would have much greater chance to kill the guy with a rifle as you have an automatic weapon and he would be likely to miss if he wasn't standing still before you rushed him. Of course deviation would effect you too, but you still have a full clip and he has like 1-2 shots max to kill you before you kill him. That's what I think at least...

And there would be much less dancing around trying to shoot the guy with your rifle before he shoots you and more melee combat if we had deviation as trying to dance around and shoot accurately would not be an option.

Remember, we're only talking about 1-2 seconds of deviation here, after that you can fire as accurately as always.
« Last Edit: 20-06-2011, 11:06:29 by LuckyOne »
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline hOMEr_jAy

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The recoil on SMGs is way too overboard as is.  Add deviation, and I'm out.  The game needs SMG vs Rifle balance before anything else.  Deviation will absolutely kill this game.  


There are some great new games coming out, mostly BF3 for me.  

FH2 needs to improve their infantry combat if they plan on keeping their player base, because the new games are.  And keep improving it, every patch.  And that doesn't mean make the game like x, y or z game.  

Why only bank on the WW2 niche when you can bank on the fact that the game is just a great shooter?

For me, the Tank Combat is FH2 is a much more refined experience than the infantry combat in FH2, and it was very much that way in FH1 too.  It's clean, makes sense, and it's fun.  


Adding deviation will make the game feel much more clumsy than it can be at times when it comes to infantry combat, which in my opinion, as both a player and game designer, has some serious flaws and balance issues.

I still shake my head in dismay, and hear the groans of others when they fire 30 rounds of a thompson point blank to 30m and still lose to a fast 1-shotter with a k98.  In fact, a lot times, people will rush you when they see a SMG because they know the recoil is so severe that up close a lot of times, a Rifle will still win.  That is wrong.

The game needs SMG vs Rifle balance before anything else.  Deviation will absolutely kill this game.  

Reduce the recoil on the BAR, Thompson, MP40, Sten, Beretta, Bren, MP44, FG42 first and any other SMG/LMG.  

Then and only then, talk deviation.  There must be a trade-off.  If you take something away (accuracy) you must give something in return (reduced recoil), otherwise, you're gonna break the game.


Yeah, right, dumb the game down even more, so that it becomes just another generic first-person-shooter game!
If you learn how to master the different weapons in-game it´s absolutely easy to go on unstoppable killing sprees. For example the FG42: If you learn how to counter its heavy recoil (which should be in-game, because the FG42 fired the same high-powered rifle cartridge as the MG42 and the K98k) you can use it both equally as a CQB killing machine and as a long-range accuracy rifle.
Currently only recoil makes the different guns more or less unique. Once you´ve mastered it and know how to use the sights, it´s extremely easy to go on lone-wolf hunting trips. Because now only fast reflexes and a good ping matter.
Squad tactics are less important than individual skills, which is pretty sad. Because even in WW2 not the single soldier won a battle, but a good working and well coordinated team.
Adding elements that would slow down the game, such as deviation (=longer firefights), supression effects for every firearm (yes, even pistols!) or the removal of these extremely ridiculous clown cars that cross an entire battlefield in less than a minute would greatly benefit FH2.
The gaming market is more than overfilled with generic shooters that basically look all the same (one reason I´m so hyped for RO:HOS) and I personally believe that a more realistic approach to WW2 would also be a good thing for the BF2 mod section.
People who enjoy more realistic shooters will most-likely ignore BF3 or MW4 and stick to games or mods that they can enjoy.
You know, not everyone loves charging through a small map with a rifle that feels like a BB gun, killing masses of enemies. There are gamers who enjoy slower-paced games where teamwork and communication counts much more than individual "gamer skills".
Just look at PR (I know, Natty will hate me for this, but whatever..): They manage to obtain a quite large playerbase. They force teamplay onto their players, but those who don´t like it can still leave and play another game. Yet they have more filled servers than almost all other BF2 mods together.
And I´ve often heard that a WW2 game with similiar mechanics as PR would be loved by a number of players, so why not dare to move FH2 into that direction?
Currently FH2 is a shallow compromise between historical accuracy and quite vBF-like game play. It attracts both "casual gamers" and "realism gamers" (which can be seen in the poll results), but sooner or later the Devs have to decide which way they want to go. Both isn´t satisfying because the casual gamers will complain about "too realistic" game mechanics, while the "realism" crowd will complain about "arcade" game mechanics.

Now I´m waiting for 2.4 to see what has been changed. Maybe the Devs already decided which way they want to go. And if it´s the less-fun way, there´s still RO:HOS around the corner.

(Just FYI: I played FH1 since 0.7 and used to play it almost daily. Even though it´s older and less beautiful than FH2 I still prefer it, because the game play is much more challenging and fully developed. Currently I play FH2 only around twice a week, because the "arcade" elements and the lack of teamplay is just too frustrating.)
And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.