A question regarding 2.45

[CologneSky]

So when is 2.45 finally coming out??

No, was just kidding! Seriously, I have a question regarding the upcoming release.

Will there be reworking/rebalancing of existing maps?
I think this has been confirmed for Op. Cobra. But what about other maps?

Currently some maps are really unbalanced and are therefore not played allot/at all. Tunis comes to my mind (which is quite impossible for Axis), Luttich (quite impossible for Allies) and others such as Goodwood (at least difficult for Allies), Giarbub (difficult for Axis).

So, in general, have you thought about tweaking existing maps? And if so, which ones? what is status?

[Ts4EVER]

If you look in the feedback section, Natty has already written in some of the threads that the maps have been rebalanced. In some cases "rebalanced" is the wrong word though. I would say "overhauled" or even "redesigned" in Cobra's case, as you can see fromt he screenshots that were posted a while back.

[hyperanthropos]

Could we get a list of maps which have been overhauled? Maybe saying were just the tickets have been changed and which map is been changed more than that?


P.S.: Probably I am not getting an answeer but I couldnt stop my self

[Ts4EVER]

Couldn't tell you (without getting flogged internally). Maybe there will be a news update about it or Natty might make a devblog if there is enough interest. Generally speaking: a lot has changed. See, 2.4 was all about general gameplay changes, 2.45 is all about map changes

[hyperanthropos]

See, 2.4 was all about general gameplay changes, 2.45 is all about map changes

Honestly I am far more excited about the map changes after those two posts of you. And was already incredibly excited about the new maps and vehicles!

[CologneSky]

Couldn't tell you (without getting flogged internally). Maybe there will be a news update about it or Natty might make a devblog if there is enough interest. Generally speaking: a lot has changed. See, 2.4 was all about general gameplay changes, 2.45 is all about map changes

go Natty, go!!

 

[DLFReporter]

Well Natty has outlined the changes in the Push system (for total domination maps like Tobruk).
Other than that many maps have had overhauls and I won't dare to say that they are better balanced now, but play more focussed. There is pretty little a mapper can do against stacked teams with people who know a map like the backside of their hands.

[CologneSky]

Well Natty has outlined the changes in the Push system (for total domination maps like Tobruk).
Other than that many maps have had overhauls and I won't dare to say that they are better balanced now, but play more focussed. There is pretty little a mapper can do against stacked teams with people who know a map like the backside of their hands.

Well, the mapper could for example change equipment/assets or ticket settings.
For Luttich for instance the ticket settings would eiter need to be changed, the bleed settings (e.g. allies would only bleed if they lose all/all but one of the flags) or the equipment (not sure maybe less tanks for germans, to be honest not sure if that would work).
In Tunis, as another example, I think ticket & ticket bleed should be changed. Dont know if allot can be done via equipment..

So IMHO there are things mappers can do, or I am misunderstanding sth. here?

Anyways, a "changelog" of things/aspects changed on the maps would be more than great! So, go Natty, go!! :-)

[DLFReporter]

See, you yourself are sporting the nice sentence bit "not sure" quite often.
All changes that have been made can have a positive effect on balance, but then again it can also be easily negated by great teamplay. This is the hardest thing to test prior to a release and I think I know at least one mapper who lost his sanity trying to balance a map while having stacked tester teams playing the map one version as allies and the other version as axis  ... but that's the nature of the game and I'm glad it's there, as it keeps the gameplay fresh and diverse. I for one enjoy changing to the 'harder' side of a map just for the challenge. Sure my blood boils when good players stay on the easy side just for their K/D and W/L score, but hell that's humans for you. ^^

But this still means that suggestions and feedback are always welcome, so continue nagging!

[CologneSky]

See, you yourself are sporting the nice sentence bit "not sure" quite often.
All changes that have been made can have a positive effect on balance, but then again it can also be easily negated by great teamplay. This is the hardest thing to test prior to a release and I think I know at least one mapper who lost his sanity trying to balance a map while having stacked tester teams playing the map one version as allies and the other version as axis 

I fully understand how difficult it is to test prior to release and have total understanding when maps turn out to be "unbalanced" after initial release and during public play. You probably can't even reproduce typical public play during the beta testing? (as you have more experienced players in beta testing only?)

However in the "2nd test phase" after the release and during public play two things occur.
1) players come back with feedback
2) you can see the stats of the maps played (I would love to see these as well if possible ;-) )

Combined you should be able to derive that certain maps do not play as well and balanced as others. Not going into details (i guess thats what the feedback forums are for) maps such as Tunis & Luttich are really unbalanced currently and should probably be given a rebalancing try. If this does not work out in the next release, then so be it..

I for one enjoy changing to the 'harder' side of a map just for the challenge. Sure my blood boils when good players stay on the easy side just for their K/D and W/L score, but hell that's humans for you.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But I beg to differ. I also like the "harder" side on maps such as St. Lo (where storming the hill is really hard), Ramelle (stopping the tiger) etc..
In these cases one has a real challenge and gets some sense of satisfaction when overcoming the obstacles.

However on maps such as Luttich (as Allies) this IMHO turns out to be highly frustrating as the inbalance is just to grave.

Just my 2 cents of nagging.. :-)

[mopskind]

Lüttich?Really? I always thougth of this one as pretty balanced. I've seen both sides win quite alot.
What needs rebalancing are some of the new Bulge Maps. Even i have to admit that it is too easy to win as germans on Meuse River, Bastogne and Eppeldorf.

[CologneSky]

Lüttich?Really? I always thougth of this one as pretty balanced. I've seen both sides win quite alot.
What needs rebalancing are some of the new Bulge Maps. Even i have to admit that it is too easy to win as germans on Meuse River, Bastogne and Eppeldorf.

honestly? well, thatswhy it would be really great to see overall map stats!
maybe my perception is really off.
but i havent seen allies win it one in the last ten times.

or are you reffering to pre-2.4. as far as i remember it was "rebalanced" for 2.4

[DLFReporter]

Feelings vary as you see. 
Iirc the devs have had access to the server stats from the official Awards, but... you know what I mean.

[hyperanthropos]

But...?
but the not to the Win/Lose statistic of 762 servers? I am sure the 762 would give their stats to teh devs, really really sure.

[DLFReporter]

Actually I was about to say stats don't always show the true picture either, you'd have to evaluate them with the separate players and where they play. We have a lot of 'badass' players who own the entire server and thus can pull a map any way.

I fully understand how difficult it is to test prior to release and have total understanding when maps turn out to be "unbalanced" after initial release and during public play. You probably can't even reproduce typical public play during the beta testing? (as you have more experienced players in beta testing only?)

Actually this isn't any different to 'public' play. The skills all vary and a map can play totally different with a dedicated squad. Anyhow the only solution would be mirror-balanced maps and even then the players would define the balance.

I guess Natty could write an essay about this problem with his knowledge. It is really not easy to circumvent.