Author Topic: Conspiracies Thread Mk II  (Read 244582 times)

Offline Mayhemic.MAD

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1575 on: 14-05-2014, 01:05:34 »
Actually the server was still fine with all those vehicles, but a bit laggy of course. Even spawning the fw190 flybys worked fine, but it crashed when we tried to spawn another destroyer.
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Offline Godall

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1576 on: 14-05-2014, 11:05:36 »

OK, I feel obliged to defend my translation. IMHO, "Istrebitel' tankov" (tank destroyer/hunter) still sounds better and more official (even cooler, if I may say so) than "Granatomyotchik" or "Broneboishchik". Besides, we already have too many "-chiks" in the kit list :)
And yes, the term was used for AT infantry (all sources are in Russian):
Radiosmersh, even the Wiki article you quoted has a picture of "soldiers of a tank destroyer battalion" (the second one from the top).
Firstly it is art literature - prose. "Istrebitel' tankov" it is not official. 
ГРАНАТОМЁТЧИК - Soldier armed with hand grenades or grenade launcher.   
http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ogegova/42114
Бронебойщик - antitank rifle shooter
http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/rus_orthography/7854/%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%BA

We just say how to properly!

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Offline gavrant

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1577 on: 14-05-2014, 13:05:35 »
Firstly it is art literature - prose. "Istrebitel' tankov" it is not official. 
Well, source #1 used the archives of the "8-й ОИПТ (Отдельной Истребительной ПротивоТанковой)— 30-й ОИПТА бригады из архива Министерства обороны СССР".
And source #3 was written by a reporter and participant of the war, so I expect some basic knowledge of terminology from him.
Sorry, but a collection of general dictionaries (academic.ru) or unsourced quotes from Wikipedia don't make the "ГРАНАТОМЁТЧИК" and "Бронебойщик" official.
One more thing about the "Гранотомётчик" - it is too vague and describes any soldier with hand grenades or a grenade launcher, while the kit is specifically AT.

Offline Godall

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1578 on: 14-05-2014, 14:05:43 »
 
Quote
One more thing about the "Гранотомётчик" - it is too vague and describes any soldier with hand grenades or a grenade launcher, while the kit is specifically AT.

According to these words set with SVT-40 will be called "Istrebitel' pehots."  ;D

"Faustnik" so it's nonsense. So in Soviet army called German grenaders, but not Russian troopers . Noo no no.
 This is not a true!
« Last Edit: 14-05-2014, 14:05:06 by Godall »

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Offline radiosmersh

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1579 on: 14-05-2014, 15:05:15 »
https://www.google.ru/search?q=site%3Aru.wikipedia.org+бронебойщик
First two and half pages are entirely about Heroes of the Soviet Union, which were AT rifle gunners.
https://www.google.ru/search?q=site%3Aru.wikipedia.org+истребитель танков
And only a couple of mention on 12th and 14th page.

And to be quite official, this profession was designated as "Стрелок ПТР" (AT rifle gunner).
Source (this is a war period leaflet for AT gunners) or Source №2 (Identity Card of the Red Army).
« Last Edit: 14-05-2014, 15:05:59 by RADIOSMERSH »

Offline gavrant

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1580 on: 14-05-2014, 15:05:30 »
https://www.google.ru/search?q=site%3Aru.wikipedia.org+бронебойщик
First two and half pages are entirely about Heroes of the Soviet Union, which were AT rifle gunners.
https://www.google.ru/search?q=site%3Aru.wikipedia.org+истребитель танков
Radiosmersh, with all due respect, Wikipedia is a good starting point for a research, but not an authoritative source.
Quote
And only a couple of mention on 12th and 14th page.
How about the seventh item on the first page - "Antitank dog"?  "Собаки-истребители танков (официальное советское название)..." and all that stuff :P


Godall, Radiosmersh, also think about one thing for a moment - how a player who doesn't speak Russian is supposed to understand that it's an AT kit? I remember seeing the French kit roster at the first time. "Where's the AT kit?" was my thought, since I didn't know what "Antichar" means in French. At least, "Istrebitel' tankov" has the "tank" in its name.
« Last Edit: 14-05-2014, 16:05:12 by gavrant »

Offline Slayer

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1581 on: 14-05-2014, 17:05:26 »
?

I don't remember crashing... at some point I just got bored or tired and left.
Well, I remember seeing you disconnect as the first guy, so you crapped out. Maybe not the PC, but hey, what's the difference really? ;)

Offline radiosmersh

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1582 on: 14-05-2014, 17:05:55 »
Radiosmersh, with all due respect, Wikipedia is a good starting point for a research, but not an authoritative source.
Ok, then here are authoritative sources:
http://sd250.narod.ru/text/pr_43_06_21.html
"В боях под Старой Руссой показал себя мужественным бронебойщиком."
http://bdsa.ru/documents/html/donesaugust41/410828.html (
"...в районе Воронино были встречены огнем бронебойщиков 1-й гвардейской стрелковой дивизии..."



I don't see any reason to pursue this dispute further. Let each one remain with his point of view. Anyway, awesomeness of thing doesn't depend on how it is called. So, thank you devs for your good work.
« Last Edit: 14-05-2014, 17:05:44 by RADIOSMERSH »

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1583 on: 14-05-2014, 17:05:17 »
https://www.google.ru/search?q=site%3Aru.wikipedia.org+бронебойщик
First two and half pages are entirely about Heroes of the Soviet Union, which were AT rifle gunners.
https://www.google.ru/search?q=site%3Aru.wikipedia.org+истребитель танков
Radiosmersh, with all due respect, Wikipedia is a good starting point for a research, but not an authoritative source.
Quote
And only a couple of mention on 12th and 14th page.
How about the seventh item on the first page - "Antitank dog"?  "Собаки-истребители танков (официальное советское название)..." and all that stuff :P


Godall, Radiosmersh, also think about one thing for a moment - how a player who doesn't speak Russian is supposed to understand that it's an AT kit? I remember seeing the French kit roster at the first time. "Where's the AT kit?" was my thought, since I didn't know what "Antichar" means in French. At least, "Istrebitel' tankov" has the "tank" in its name.

AT stands for anti tank so anti char is not quite far of especialy when you consider that there are french tanks called "Char B1 Bis". Good point about Wikipedia though. It is not the good to rely on it only but to check different sources.

At the end it should be the most historical accurate term.

Offline gavrant

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1584 on: 14-05-2014, 18:05:16 »
Ok, then here are authoritative sources:
...
http://bdsa.ru/documents/html/donesaugust41/410828.html (
"...в районе Воронино были встречены огнем бронебойщиков 1-й гвардейской стрелковой дивизии..."
Hehe, my turn with the same source:
http://bdsa.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3391&Itemid=67
"ПРИКАЗЫВАЮ: С получением сего в 24 часа создать в каждой роте группу истребителей танков в составе 10-12 человек..."
http://bdsa.ru/documents/html/donesnovember41/411105.html
"5. Окопы усовершенствовать до полного профиля, подготовить батальонные и ротные группы истребителей танков и собак – истребителей танков..."
http://bdsa.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=578&Itemid=30
"... Если в уничтожении вражеского танка участвовала группа бойцов-истребителей танков, то сумму премии поднять до 1500 руб.* и выплачивать всем участникам группы равными долями..."

To be fair, as I understand, the quotes above are mostly about soldiers armed with AT grenades and Molotov cocktails, not with AT rifles.

EDIT: Sorry, I just can't resist...
On bdsa.ru, a rather large collection of archive documents, Yandex (a search engine, it's better than Google in dealing with Russian sites) could find:
"Granatomyotchik" - 16 pages
"Broneboischik" - 11 pages
"Istrebitel' tankov" - 248 pages, about 1/3 of them are related to the "tank destroyer on foot".

Quote
I don't see any reason to pursue this dispute further. Let each one remain with his point of view. Anyway, awesomeness of thing doesn't depend on how it is called. So, thank you devs for your good work.
Oh come on! After we finally got to the sources more serious than Wikipedia, you're withdrawing from the argument?


AT stands for anti tank so anti char is not quite far of especialy when you consider that there are french tanks called "Char B1 Bis".
For that, you have to be aware of the existence of Char B1 Bis in the first place :)
« Last Edit: 14-05-2014, 19:05:58 by gavrant »

Offline Slayer

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1585 on: 14-05-2014, 19:05:39 »
Meh, you have to leanr so much when you start playing FH2, that a few words in an unknown language are easy to add.

So if a certain word is the most accurate, but it doesn't "look like" anti-tank kit, I still think we should go for it. It's not like I know Italian that well, but when a player uses the voice commands, I know what to do without looking.

Offline Musti

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1586 on: 14-05-2014, 20:05:46 »
I mean it's not like Italian AT kit is called controcarro or anything...
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Offline NTH

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1587 on: 14-05-2014, 20:05:29 »
Taranov bat signal.

Is he still around?


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
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Offline Godall

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1588 on: 14-05-2014, 20:05:48 »
"Istrebitel' tankov" - can be called gunners, tankmen, airmen and soldiers.
Our offer more accurate, correct.

I hope that in game will not Soviet soldier with a beard, which is dancing the balalaika with a bear. :(
Do not make Russian clowns behind which will be ashamed to play.

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Offline Steel_Lion_FIN

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Re: Conspiracies Thread Mk II
« Reply #1589 on: 14-05-2014, 20:05:35 »
"Istrebitel' tankov" - can be called gunners, tankmen, airmen and soldiers.
Our offer more accurate, correct.

I hope that in game will not Soviet soldier with a beard, which is dancing the balalaika with a bear. :(
Do not make Russian clowns behind which will be ashamed to play.

Yak-9IT is the Istrebitel tankov model, so it applies to planes as well.
I'd rather play Kimble with my ass!