Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Announcements => Developer Blogs => Topic started by: Knoffhoff on 18-08-2012, 23:08:12

Title: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Knoffhoff on 18-08-2012, 23:08:12
The road to Prokhorovka Part 1

Hello folks,
welcome on the road to Prokhorovka.
In this blog I'll share some insights into the developing process of one of our first eastern front maps.

When we decided to do the eastern front it was clear that we wanted to include a map covering the actions during the Battle of Kursk to our first eastern front release.
After it had been decided that I got the privilege to do that map, I started to do extensive research on what was going on during that battle and to figure out what kind of map would be best suited.

After several days of research I narrowed the actions down to two scenarios that seemed to be suitable.

- The actions around Ponyri
- Battle of Prokhorovka

In the next weeks I developed concepts for both map ideas that included, a rough description of the gameplay I was aiming for, gaming area based on real terrain, heightmaps based on real terrain features, control point and vehicle layouts.

It then was decided that Prokhorovka is the map we are going for. The reasoning behind it mainly has to do with it being easier to implement than Poniry which would have needed many more unique statics and vehicles. But also we had the feeling that a big tank clash outsidethe africa scenario was missing in FH2.

When creating the gaming area I decided to choose a terrain that had the Psel  river in the northwest, the village Storozhevoe in the southeast, Prokhorovka in the northeast, and Komsomolets and Oktiabr'skii farms in the center. That area in reality covers  ~ 350 square km's and has for gaming purposed been downscaled to 4 ingame square km's.

In this area 3 German SS divisions and a variaty of Russian divisons where fighting which allows for a nice vehice layout.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_1.jpg)

The next step was to create a rough heightmap that is based on real terrain. Take a look at the heightmap itself and note the accordance with the topographic map.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_2.jpg)

The actual concept of the map is a head on tank combat over 4 captuarable flags. Both teams bleed at the beginning of the round and a team can stop the own bleed by holding more flags than the enemy does.
The map is divided in three parts by the river in the north and the railroad line in the south. The Terrain in the middle of the map is a little bit wavy and mostly open. Not in the concept drawing but certainly in the map is the famous AT ditch in the depression between both farms. The southern part is wavier and has more overgrowth which allows for better cover, while the northern part is more flat and open.
The engaements in open terrain will mostly happen between tanks, infantry has the chance to man defencsive positions aroundthe flags.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_3.jpg)

Next time I will show the first steps in BF2 editor.
Stay tuned.


The road to Prokhorovka Part 2: First Editor Work

After concept and heightmap creation it is time now to create the actual map in editor.

I imported my heightmap and used the actual map extract I was basing the map on as ground texture.
To make it not blind my eyes while working, I gave ita dark green overlay. This texture helps me alot to orientate on the otherwise still empty map and  is the rough plan of how I'm building my landscape. 
The next thing I do is to place all the flags, add some spawnpoints and some vehicles and buildings at each flag.
This is followed by the first ingame test, to check out if the scale is working out like planned, distances between flags are good and if the terrain height differences feel right.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_5.jpg)

If all that turns out like expected, my next step is to create the main terrain features. In this case the railroad line in the south and the river in the north. Those two terrain features are very importatnt since they divide the in 3 main parts. Before starting to work on any of the other areas of the map I want to have those roughly done to be able to build the rest of the map around them and design the gameplay so that those features actually have a impact.
To do that i adjust the terrain, so it forms a river, create embankments and cuts for the railroad line and place the tracks. All heightmap work is rough. I will have to overwork it later anyways, so there is no need to waste too much time on it.

Running into first problems. A big problem on this heightmap is that the river area is very flat. To minimize flickering through water when looking from a distance I raise the terrain around the river and make the river banks steeper.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_6.jpg)

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_7.jpg)

Placing railroad tracks is tricky and has to be done with care. If you don't 100% correct attach them to their neighbor you get crazy flickering. To get it as perfect as possible get close to the rail and look at from several directions.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_8.jpg)

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_9.jpg)

Smoothing the terrain at cuts and embankments so much that I don't have too nasty parts but saving time because I will fine tune this anyways at a later stage.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_10.jpg)

Another thing I do right at the start is to create the most important roads. Nothing fancy, just some splines with a road texture that again mostly give me  orientation when working in editor and checking things out ingame.
Additionaly I placed some more buildings and some overgrowth which also help me to get the scale right while further working on the map. Right now they are just thrown at some place where i might use them later but doing this also gives me ideas on how to actually place the statics later.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_11.jpg)

I hope you enjoy the blog.
Have a nice evening, till next time.


The road to Prokhorovka Part 3: getting at it again

When building a map it is very likely that at one point your work is being halted for some time.
In this case due to several reasons I even did not work on the map for more than 3 months.
In mid December I slowly started to get into the project again and am hoping to be developing at full speed sometime soon.

Since the basic setup was more or less  done, I decided to place some tanks on the map and as I'm sure some of you have witnessed, have a first playtest.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_16.jpg)

The goal of this playtest was to find out where exactly I have to do improvements in the maps composition to make tank combat as interesting as possible. As you can see on the minimap the map in the current state was rather plain, so there is plenty of room to do terrain modifications, place statics and overgrowth to ensure that tank fighting works .

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_12.jpg)

One thing I realized pretty fast was that the routes to the flags needed to be altered.
With building new roads using the road and apply spline tool I try to make sure that important sections of those roads are better positioned on the map and also ensure that both teams have suitable routes to the flags.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_15.jpg)
 
Another thing to improve routes to the flag area is providing more cover, which can be done by changing the terrain, but in the rather flat river area of the map is mostly done with placing objects and overgrowth. For now all object and overgrowth placement is still makeshift and only has the role to be there and give me a better image of how the map is going to play out later.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_13.jpg)

While being at changing terrain features to a higher detail level I also for the first time started to think about on how to implemet my ideas of how the map is supposed to look. For now this is kept to a rather low level and is limited to creating flat terrain right next to the river that will later have a swampy look and is covered with reed or similar plants that grwow under such conditions.

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/devblog/Prokhorovka/prok_blog_14.jpg)

That's it for today. Thanks for your patience and I'm hoping to be able to post here more frequently again.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-08-2012, 23:08:48
bolji MOI that looks dam amazing!

classic battlefield style map!
T34"s! T-70's! Churchills! Panzer IV's!Panzer 38's! And a tiger or so!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: McCloskey on 18-08-2012, 23:08:09
squeeeeeeeeak!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Turkish007 on 18-08-2012, 23:08:56
Was waiting long for a map yo be announced. Awesome!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 18-08-2012, 23:08:31
bolji MOI that looks dam amazing!

classic battlefield style map!
T34"s! T-70's! Churchills! Panzer IV's!Panzer 38's! And a tiger or so!

Lions and tigers and bears oh my!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: hyperanthropos on 18-08-2012, 23:08:51
God dammit I am so exited now! Thanks for sharing a devekopnment process of a map with us and ecpacially THIS map, awesome!
I keep appreciating FH more and more for those little things and since we get to know how much work and research is being put into a map I have evven more respect for all the devs.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Easy Eight on 18-08-2012, 23:08:18
Awesome, looks a lot like the FH1 map. :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: ajappat on 19-08-2012, 00:08:27
Looks like aberdeen. harharhar
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 19-08-2012, 00:08:18
My main and only hope is that the map will represent the actual conditions of the battle, which was rainy, overcast, and muddy. :)  Not at all swirling dust and heat like the myth goes:

Quote
Myth #5: The weather at Prokhorovka was clear and dry.  Most popular accounts of the battle at Prokhorovka feature swirling tank battles kicking up enormous clouds of dust.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  We already know that there were no swirling tanks battles at point blank range.  Nor was there dust.  The ground was waterlogged, and the weather during the battle featured occasional thunderstorms.  According to the reports of LSSAH, July 9th was "dreary and rainy" and July 10th featured "heavy showers which hampered [the] division's movements".  For July 11 and 12, the division reported that there were "heavy downpours which severely hampered combat operations" and that the roads were "in very poor shape".  These are hardly the conditions that would allow for huge clouds of dust to be kicked up!

Also, no Panthers!  There were none in the southern sector.  Same for the Elefant! Refer here for more great info:

http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: RommelBr on 19-08-2012, 00:08:30
Hoping to be a exellent EF map, FOR MOTHER RUSSIA!! ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Thorondor123 on 19-08-2012, 00:08:28
My main and only hope is that the map will represent the actual conditions of the battle, which was rainy, overcast, and muddy. :) 
Hear hear.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 19-08-2012, 00:08:10
Soviet combat of order is also intresting

409 T-34
188 T-70
31 Churchill infantry tanks
48 self-propelled guns of the SU-122 and SU-76 type
and some KV tanks


for the german tanks. IIRC its the Panzer III ausf J-L and N. Panzer IV ausf G, Stug 3's and Tiger tanks.



As for planes. The soviets fielded Yak-9's, Il-2's, PE-2"s and tupolev SB's.
But the germans, i dunno. ME-109's and JU 87's for sure. ME110? JU88?

Would be cool to finnaly see some light bombers on this mod :/
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-08-2012, 01:08:29
Even though it won't be made, could you show the concepts for Ponyri too?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: pizzzaman on 19-08-2012, 01:08:25
Why won't Ponyri be made?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-08-2012, 01:08:13
Quote
It then was decided that Prokhorovka is the map we are going for. The reasoning behind it mainly has to do with it being easier to implement than Poniry which would have needed many more unique statics and vehicles. But also we had the feeling that a big tank clash outsidethe africa scenario was missing in FH2.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: pizzzaman on 19-08-2012, 01:08:10
What kind of statics would Ponyri need?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-08-2012, 01:08:18
A school building, a church, a water tower, a factory, a trainstation building and that  is just of the top of my head.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: GIJordncc1701d on 19-08-2012, 02:08:38
Looks like I'm actually going to have to learn how to pronounce Prokhorovka now  ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: McCloskey on 19-08-2012, 02:08:14
A school building, a church, a water tower, a factory, a trainstation building and that  is just of the top of my head.

*remembers United Offensive's level... ahh, if only we had 'that' in FH2
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: pizzzaman on 19-08-2012, 02:08:46
*remembers United Offensive's level... ahh, if only we had 'that' in FH2

(http://www.freeeshare.com/games/uploads/CODUO-3.jpg)
Good memories..
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: »KeFeng on 19-08-2012, 04:08:04
Every Faction has his uncap Base, Battlezone in the Middle - love it!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-08-2012, 04:08:39
Every Faction has his uncap Base, Battlezone in the Middle - love it!

Yeah, good, classic setup, although personally I think there is also something to be said for more "progressive" maps like Hurtgen or sidi bou zid.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: »KeFeng on 19-08-2012, 04:08:23
Funny, we talked about that 2 hours ago via Teamspeak. I guess it's important, to get and hold a middle Path between Classic and Push Modes. At this state of FH, the variety is given and makes it more playable.

Regards
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 19-08-2012, 04:08:26
GREAT devblog... I gotta say, I've always respected what the devs have done, but these sort of step by step insight devblogs coupled with my struggles to learn the basics of texturing this summer have really given me new insight into the type of work and dedication that you guys put into this mod. It's nothing short of spectacular, and its amazing to see how very artistic you guys are. Keep up the great work and these dev blogs. I love seeing this behind the scenes type stuff.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 19-08-2012, 05:08:25
GREAT devblog... I gotta say, I've always respected what the devs have done, but these sort of step by step insight devblogs coupled with my struggles to learn the basics of texturing this summer have really given me new insight into the type of work and dedication that you guys put into this mod. It's nothing short of spectacular, and its amazing to see how very artistic you guys are. Keep up the great work and these dev blogs. I love seeing this behind the scenes type stuff.

^This

 8)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 19-08-2012, 10:08:43
But ponyri might be implented in the far future? yes?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: psykfallet on 19-08-2012, 11:08:45
that's awesome, was just wondering what map you were cooking on the other day. Also this will be the first official 4km map  :o
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Kelmola on 19-08-2012, 11:08:01
There was the Ferdinand in the changelog with markings of one that was destroyed at Ponyri railroad station, so I would not bury my hopes just yet, TheTA ;)

Also, regarding Tigers at Prokhorovka, in the entire 1. SS PzKorps (which had no Panthers to begin with, they were all assigned to Großdeutschland division operating some 20km west), a whopping 3 (Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.) were operational on the morning of Prokhorovka. Granted, one of these was commanded by some no-skill n00b called Michael Wittmann.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: hyperanthropos on 19-08-2012, 11:08:48
that's awesome, was just wondering what map you were cooking on the other day. Also this will be the first official 4km map  :o
Arent the todays large maps already 2 on 2 kilometers? Because it says 4 square kilometers.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: ajappat on 19-08-2012, 11:08:28
that's awesome, was just wondering what map you were cooking on the other day. Also this will be the first official 4km map  :o
Arent the todays large maps already 2 on 2 kilometers? Because it says 4 square kilometers.
Yep, it will be same size with gazala, el al etc.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 19-08-2012, 11:08:36
96p!

oooh god this will be sweet

What will be vehicle line-up for this map?

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: psykfallet on 19-08-2012, 11:08:05
that's awesome, was just wondering what map you were cooking on the other day. Also this will be the first official 4km map  :o
Arent the todays large maps already 2 on 2 kilometers? Because it says 4 square kilometers.
damn youre right  :-[
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Nissi on 19-08-2012, 13:08:34
But ponyri might be implented in the far future? yes?

The fact that you desperately want it reduced the probability drastically from 1% to far below 0.
If it would still happen, I wouldn't be mad either.

;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Kelmola on 19-08-2012, 13:08:22
Square kilometres != kilometres square. A map two kilometres square - that is, 2 km x 2km -has an area of four square kilometres.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: psykfallet on 19-08-2012, 14:08:41
correct observation but I didnt say it was squared  :P. I just read 4km wich I assumed to be the width.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: RAnDOOm on 19-08-2012, 14:08:11
Thank you for this Knoffhoff.

Looking very good.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 19-08-2012, 16:08:06
 For those of you that dont know, Knoffhoff is the author of:

Operation Goodwood
Hurtgen Forest
Alam Halfa

 This is in good hands.


 Imagine Prokhorovka (128) with 40 tanks
 8)

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 19-08-2012, 16:08:17

 Imagine Prokhorovka (128) with 40 tanks
 8)

Off to masturbate!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: corsair89 on 19-08-2012, 18:08:18
Thanks for this dev blog ! I like these kind of post where you show all the thoughts behind the map and the attention to recreate battlefields as close to the real ones.

Keep up this good work  ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: pizzzaman on 19-08-2012, 18:08:56
What's next?
Orel?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Turkish007 on 19-08-2012, 18:08:17
What's next?
Orel?

I want infantry trench warfare in Crimea!  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: AdamPA1006 on 19-08-2012, 20:08:15
This is awesome, thank you. ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: JackONeill on 19-08-2012, 22:08:43
I'm looking forward to the next parts. I really enjoy this kind of background information.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: CptdeS35 on 20-08-2012, 00:08:01
Nice idea to show everyone how a map evolve from the real beginning. It will also show how long it could be...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: LuckyOne on 20-08-2012, 00:08:03
Great, I am looking forward to seeing FH2 version of this...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: TASSER on 20-08-2012, 02:08:05
For those of you that dont know, Knoffhoff is the author of:

Operation Goodwood
Hurtgen Forest
Alam Halfa

 This is in good hands.

Easily my three favorite maps. Knoffhoff, I sincerely applaud your work.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: LtJimmy on 20-08-2012, 07:08:06
Isn't there some sort of debate in the historical community as to what, if anything happened at Prokhorovka. I remember hearing from somewhere that at best the debate is only over what forces took part, or the weather as mentioned by vM and at worst the battle has been exaggerated to such a degree for many years after WW2, the Germans and Soviets had an interest to inflate the size and scope of the battle - the Germans to save face from loosing and the Soviets to explain such high losses.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Damaso on 20-08-2012, 07:08:13
Great job!

Well... im an ww2 geek, and maybe this is gona be a noob question for a guy like me ask over here:

Cant you add some katyushas over there?

(btw you can put the katyusha song in that map if you use katyusha) :D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Kelmola on 20-08-2012, 10:08:59
Isn't there some sort of debate in the historical community as to what, if anything happened at Prokhorovka. I remember hearing from somewhere that at best the debate is only over what forces took part, or the weather as mentioned by vM and at worst the battle has been exaggerated to such a degree for many years after WW2, the Germans and Soviets had an interest to inflate the size and scope of the battle - the Germans to save face from loosing and the Soviets to explain such high losses.
Legend has it that scores of Panthers and Tigers were smashed by endless waves of T-34's, which is kinda interesting since no Panthers and four (sorry, memory failed about three) Tigers (out of initial 35 in the entire II SS PzKorps) were operational (15 total, but operational on paper is not the same as being able to fire and manoeuver). So there would be ~200 German tanks, mostly III and IV, with the odd StuG, II, and 38(t)) versus ~800 Soviet tanks (not all committed to action), ~450 T-34's, ~250 T-70's and the odd Churchill, SU-76, and SU-122 (no 85's or 152's). So the largest tank battle in history is actually either the Battle of Hannut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hannut) or the Battle of Gembloux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gembloux_(1940)), in both of which almost 700 Panzers faced ~600 French tanks. (Would really be in the spirit of FH to have either or both in the mod!)

The weather was not dusty, but rainy and muddy, hampering tank movement. Rain was in intermittent showers, however, allowing massive air operations on both sides, fighter strength being too low on both sides to prevent these much (or in some cases, at all). Too bad most of the Soviet air raids were against 48th Panzer Korps, not against II SS Pz Korps. Visibility was often obscured by smoke, not dust; "dust" might or might not have originally been a translation error (so even reading a correct primary source one can arrive at the wrong conclusion).

The II SS PzKorps lost from 5 July to 23 July 36 tanks fully destroyed, 19 of which were between 5 July and 11 July, so at most 17 were completely lost at Prokhorovka.

By their own account, the Soviets lost 400 tanks to repairable damage (to all causes; losses to aircraft were particularly heavy). This in addition to those lost to irrepairable. Total losses would be around ~600, because on July 13 the 5th Guards Tank army had 150 to 200 tanks (out of initial ~800) still operational.

Tactically, it was a German victory, on a strategic scale, it was another Charge of the Light Brigade or Operations Market/Garden, because dear old Gefreiter then finally proved he only had one ball and instead of throwing the panzer reserves into the gap made by II SS - remember that Prokhorovka was a Soviet counterattack because the Germans had already made it through the defensive line there and would have been able to break through in their rear if not checked - made another of his strategically sound decisions to cancel the entire Zitadelle offensive and withdraw the entire II SS PzKorps which made no frakking sense, considering that it was the unit that was furthest into the gap and the Leibstandarte could and would never make it to Sicily in time. The Leibstandarte did leave their (still functional) heavy equipment behind (however, Das Reich and Totenkopf would put it into good use), however, which would further help to fuel the "SS were pwn3d" legend.

http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm
http://stonebooks.com/archives/001002.shtml
http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-kursk-germanys-lost-victory-in-world-war-ii.htm
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: silian on 20-08-2012, 10:08:33
The LSSAH had four operational Tigers on the 10th of July, which is what the table shows on the first link, not the entire II. SS Pz. Korps.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Zoologic on 20-08-2012, 11:08:37
Oh

(http://memedepot.com/uploads/0/197_must_not_fap.jpg)

Yes, Knoffhoff's maps are always have this epic settings, most of them are scaled-down version of the actual battle sites while maintaining a good amount of authenticity. They offer a balance between good immersion and gameplay. They are easily my favourite.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Kelmola on 20-08-2012, 13:08:53
Read again the sources... OK, my bad again. LSSAH had four, DR one and TK ten Tigers, 15 out of 300 (OK, 300, not 200) is still 1 in 20. The Wikipedia mentions that it is possible (read: "I think") that a further brigade (with ~45 Tigers) may have been involved ("citation needed", what a surprise). Did the Tigers contribute to the victory? Certainly. Were they decisive? Whether they were four or fourteen in number, hardly. LSSAH alone had more Marder III's than the entire Corps had Tigers. The Soviets lost twice the number of Churchills (!) than Germans had Tigers.

How I would setup the vehicles:
1 x Tiger
3-4 x PzIVF2/G
1-2 x PzIVF1
1 x PZIIJlate
2 x MarderIII
1 x StuG40F
1 x PzIIF

7 x T-34/76
4 x T-70
1 x KV-1/1942
2 x Churchill
1 x SU-76
1 x SU-122
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 20-08-2012, 16:08:27
Agreed with Kelmola's set up on vehicles.  I think that would be quite fine. :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Paythoss on 20-08-2012, 17:08:10
I think 3 or 5 x Pz III Ausf J or L ( M gonna be acurate but we don have any ? ) , with full pack of schurtzens , gonna be more precise ?
http://panzerschreck.strefa.pl/zdjecia/kursk/29.jpg
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 20-08-2012, 18:08:56
Eep, just noticed that Kelmola did miss out on the Panzer IIIs!  Yes, we would def need at least a couple L's or M's on the map.  Here btw, is the actual listing of tanks available for the Germans at Prok on July 10th:

Pz III: 11
Pz IV: 42
Pz VI Tiger: 4
Marder III: 20
StuG III: 20
Pz I: 2
Pz II: 4

So I'd say maybe this:

1x Tiger
2x Panzer III
3x Panzer IV
2x Marder III
2x Stug III
1x Panzer II

So that's 12 german tanks against

7x T-34/76
4x T-70
1x KV-1/1942
2x Churchill
1x SU-76
1x SU-122

A total of 16 Russian tanks.  Maybe should up it to 8 T-34, 2 Su76, and 5 T-70, thus making it 19 russian tanks.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: [F|H]Taz18 on 20-08-2012, 18:08:05
M gonna be acurate but we don have any ?

Check the 2.45 German vehicles.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: McCloskey on 20-08-2012, 18:08:58
Only 28/31 tanks in total? I want to see moar! :D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 20-08-2012, 19:08:09
Eep, just noticed that Kelmola did miss out on the Panzer IIIs!  Yes, we would def need at least a couple L's or M's on the map.  Here btw, is the actual listing of tanks available for the Germans at Prok on July 10th:

Pz III: 11
Pz IV: 42
Pz VI Tiger: 4
Marder III: 20
StuG III: 20
Pz I: 2
Pz II: 4

So I'd say maybe this:

1x Tiger
2x Panzer III
3x Panzer IV
2x Marder III
2x Stug III
1x Panzer II

So that's 12 german tanks against

7x T-34/76
4x T-70
1x KV-1/1942
2x Churchill
1x SU-76
1x SU-122

A total of 16 Russian tanks.  Maybe should up it to 8 T-34, 2 Su76, and 5 T-70, thus making it 19 russian tanks.
16 russian tanks vs 12 german tanks is to few. then we get an operation totalize scenario. 19 vs 12 german tanks is a realistic setup. The tiger is gonna be very difficult to defeat tough...


But what about luftwaffe vs VVS?

I know that the Soviets had Yak-9's, La-5's, P39 airacobras, IL-2's and PE-2's and Tupolev SB's. Also a few A-20 havocs

In total, 266 fighters, 90 IL-2's and 160 Light and medium bombers

So i would say 1 YAK-9, 1 P-39 or LA-3, 2 IL-2's and 1 PE-2.

VS

1 ME 109, one FW 190 and 3 JU-87's. (One 37mm armed kannonenvogel and 2 bombers)


We really need the PE-2 in FH2...Ommitting this plane is unacceptable. This was a far better dive bomber then the IL-2. It was excellent all round armoured. It was used in so many roles and 11 400 built.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 20-08-2012, 20:08:45
Not so sure about that. IL-2  was designed with only ground support in mind. The PE-2 is pretty much the soviet equivalent of a JU-88 (a strategic dive bomber) and deHavilland Mosquito (almost anything from a heavy fighter to strategic low-level bomber)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 20-08-2012, 20:08:09
Not so sure about that. IL-2  was designed with only ground support in mind. The PE-2 is pretty much the soviet equivalent of a JU-88 (a strategic dive bomber) and deHavilland Mosquito (almost anything from a heavy fighter to strategic low-level bomber)
Nope.avi

The PE-2 was origenally designed as an escort figther(in a prison!)
Petlyakov's team got 45 days of evil commies to convert it into a divebomber. Later on a standard bomber version was also designed

But the PE-2 was regarded by the luftwaffe as the best soviet aircraft. It was very fast, durable and a real danger to fighter aircraft.
Quote
Maj. A. Mudin of JG 51, affirmed that the Pe-2 was the best Soviet aircraft: "It is a fast aircraft, with good armament, and it is dangerous to enemy fighters."

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Slayer on 20-08-2012, 20:08:26
Thx for the links Kelmola. Gonna change my story next time I teach Eastern Front :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Gurdy on 20-08-2012, 20:08:52
We really need the PE-2 in FH2...Ommitting this plane is unacceptable.


Hey, modeling and texturing tools are easy enough to find--if you want something in the mod, learn to model and make a well-rounded application!  ;)

In the meantime, let's be glad we have people such as Knoffhoff carrying us to the Ostfront!  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Kelmola on 20-08-2012, 20:08:16
The PE-2 was originally designed as an escort figther(in a prison!) Petlyakov's team got 45 days of evil commies to convert it into a divebomber.
I don't know what Stalin was having, but it was apparently same stuff Hitler had. (Also, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, which is obviously what happened here. Though would not be the first or the last plane that accidentally has unintended good qualities.)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 20-08-2012, 21:08:38
We really need the PE-2 in FH2...Ommitting this plane is unacceptable.


Hey, modeling and texturing tools are easy enough to find--if you want something in the mod, learn to model and make a well-rounded application!  ;)

I tried my man :( it is just to difficult
well my problem is actually patience....
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: LuckyOne on 20-08-2012, 21:08:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeFkSV3_8iQ

Pe 2 is awesome... but that thing might be out of FH2 reach... Seeing as it had top,bottom, and side gunners... And devs said they generally aren't planning to add multi-crewed bombers anytime soon. :'(

Or I am wrong? On wiki it says it's a three man crew? Did the rear gunner operate all the guns or there was a version with only 1 top gun? I am confused by this little plane...

EDIT: It seems the rear gunner worked all the guns... I'm curious if this is possible to implement in bf 2...

Interesting that the top MG had an asymmetric firing arc...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 20-08-2012, 21:08:17
the crew was always 3 man. the guns where manned by a single crew member


this thing aint out of reach! its like a beaufighter only slower and with defensive armament
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: silian on 20-08-2012, 22:08:12
Been looking at the aircraft on strength of the 2nd VA and Luftflotte 4 during the battle and think the following would be most appropriate.

Luftflotte 4

Observation - Fw 189A-2
Air-to-Air - Bf 109G-4 or 'G-6
Ground Attack - Fw 190A-5 and/or F-2
                      Hs 129B-2/R2 (30mm MK 103)
                      Ju 87D-5

2nd Air Army

Air-to-Air - La-5FN
                Yak-1B
Ground Attack - Il-2M (aka Il-2 m1943/Il-2 AM-38F, note, not the Il-2M3)
                      Il-2M NS-37 (Il-2 NS-37)
                      Pe-2FT 

http://www.yogysoft.de/pawel/_kursk/odbs/Lfl4_odb.htm
http://www.yogysoft.de/pawel/_kursk/odbs/2wa_upd.htm
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 20-08-2012, 23:08:21
Um, yes, the IL-2 was never designed as or used as a dive bomber, theta.  So of course the Pe-2 was better....

Also, the Pe-2 indeed had only 3 crew members but the bombadier would also have acted as a gunner when not busy bombing.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: DaWorg! on 21-08-2012, 02:08:13
Pe-3 had only one gunner as far as i know, not sure how much it was used on the frontlines though.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 21-08-2012, 02:08:24
IIRC the Pe-3 had basically disappeared by the end of 1942, due to very poor performance, the airframe just couldn't handle all the armour add ons, causing it to be too sluggish in combat.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: LtJimmy on 21-08-2012, 07:08:47
Legend has it that scores of Panthers and Tigers were smashed by endless waves of T-34's, which is kinda interesting since no Panthers and four (sorry, memory failed about three) Tigers (out of initial 35 in the entire II SS PzKorps) were operational (15 total, but operational on paper is not the same as being able to fire and manoeuver). So there would be ~200 German tanks, mostly III and IV, with the odd StuG, II, and 38(t)) versus ~800 Soviet tanks (not all committed to action), ~450 T-34's, ~250 T-70's and the odd Churchill, SU-76, and SU-122 (no 85's or 152's). So the largest tank battle in history is actually either the Battle of Hannut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hannut) or the Battle of Gembloux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gembloux_(1940)), in both of which almost 700 Panzers faced ~600 French tanks. (Would really be in the spirit of FH to have either or both in the mod!)

The weather was not dusty, but rainy and muddy, hampering tank movement. Rain was in intermittent showers, however, allowing massive air operations on both sides, fighter strength being too low on both sides to prevent these much (or in some cases, at all). Too bad most of the Soviet air raids were against 48th Panzer Korps, not against II SS Pz Korps. Visibility was often obscured by smoke, not dust; "dust" might or might not have originally been a translation error (so even reading a correct primary source one can arrive at the wrong conclusion).

The II SS PzKorps lost from 5 July to 23 July 36 tanks fully destroyed, 19 of which were between 5 July and 11 July, so at most 17 were completely lost at Prokhorovka.

By their own account, the Soviets lost 400 tanks to repairable damage (to all causes; losses to aircraft were particularly heavy). This in addition to those lost to irrepairable. Total losses would be around ~600, because on July 13 the 5th Guards Tank army had 150 to 200 tanks (out of initial ~800) still operational.

Tactically, it was a German victory, on a strategic scale, it was another Charge of the Light Brigade or Operations Market/Garden, because dear old Gefreiter then finally proved he only had one ball and instead of throwing the panzer reserves into the gap made by II SS - remember that Prokhorovka was a Soviet counterattack because the Germans had already made it through the defensive line there and would have been able to break through in their rear if not checked - made another of his strategically sound decisions to cancel the entire Zitadelle offensive and withdraw the entire II SS PzKorps which made no frakking sense, considering that it was the unit that was furthest into the gap and the Leibstandarte could and would never make it to Sicily in time. The Leibstandarte did leave their (still functional) heavy equipment behind (however, Das Reich and Totenkopf would put it into good use), however, which would further help to fuel the "SS were pwn3d" legend.

http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm
http://stonebooks.com/archives/001002.shtml
http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-kursk-germanys-lost-victory-in-world-war-ii.htm
TIL :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2012, 17:08:45
German army could win battles tacticly

But rarely on a strategic scale.

numbers, numbers numbers and numbers. If a tank can still kill your tank, it doesnt matter then that it has twice the armour and triple the gun.

Sucks being the soldier on that army tough. But you're fucked up in any army in any war
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Zoologic on 21-08-2012, 20:08:23
So, we are talking about "the largest" tank battle in a day in history? Or what?

Is Kursk salient still the host to the biggest tank battle? Or is it simply popular myth debunked? I'm still unsure with Kelmola's post.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 21-08-2012, 20:08:49
So, we are talking about "the largest" tank battle in a day in history? Or what?

Is Kursk salient still the host to the biggest tank battle? Or is it simply popular myth debunked? I'm still unsure with Kelmola's post.

No, the french thing is the largest based on facts, the Kursk thing is overexaggarated (or however you spell it)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 21-08-2012, 21:08:26
Actually, there is one larger than the French battles, the Battle of Brody in 1941, approx 600 or so German tanks against about 3000 russian (over 2000 of the russian tanks were T-26's)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2012, 21:08:00
i still want the PE-2!

if only i could make it with my bear hands
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Biiviz on 21-08-2012, 21:08:20
Bear hands are mostly suited for eating berries and catching Salmon.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Turkish007 on 21-08-2012, 21:08:56
Bear hands are mostly suited for eating berries and catching Salmon.


LoL I this made my day  :D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Kelmola on 21-08-2012, 21:08:02
At some point, we would have to define "battle". Battle of Brody is starting to border on saying Battle of Kursk was the largest tank battle ever. The other was fought in a 100x100 km box over a week, the other in a 200x100 km box over two weeks. :P
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 21-08-2012, 23:08:00
At some point, we would have to define "battle". Battle of Brody is starting to border on saying Battle of Kursk was the largest tank battle ever. The other was fought in a 100x100 km box over a week, the other in a 200x100 km box over two weeks. :P

True dat.  Then yah, I'd say Gembloux was probably the biggest.  Also was the lost French chance to cut off the german spearheads and destroy them.  If they had counter attacked through after defeating and crushing those Panzer divisions as they did, they could have completely sliced off the germans, pocketed them, and wiped them out.  Post war German accounts, documented in "Strange Victory" by Dr. Ernest May, note that "if Prioux had been reinforced, instead of ordered to withdraw, the whole German front in Belgium might have crumpled."
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Zoologic on 22-08-2012, 05:08:44
So, if we count the whole battle of Kursk (2 months, from July to August 1943). Is it still the largest tank battle (by the number of tanks involved)?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: theUg on 22-08-2012, 06:08:22
http://panzerschreck.strefa.pl/zdjecia/kursk/29.jpg

Can I haz that infanry tank riding position? Laying lazily on the side of the turret, protected, with a wrench or occasional shot.

(Sorry for off-topic.)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: VonMudra on 22-08-2012, 06:08:24
That's not a infantry, that's crew members sticking out of the turret hatches.


And if you count the entire Kursk CAMPAIGN, it's still not the largest, as Brody and others still are greater than it.  Kursk was multiple battles and fronts across hundreds of kilometers of ground, it was never some singular battle.  THe syntax issue comes from the pop history version of the word "battle" and the more technical military history correct term battle, which refers to a set of skirmishes or combat that focused on a small area of land for limited objectives.  For instance, the Battle of Arnhem is a single battle, of the Market Garden Campaign.  But the battle of normandy is actually a large assortment of battles that make up the Normandy Campaign.  A more correct terminology for Kursk would be the Kursk campaign, which would include all combat along the salient plus the russian post-Prok/Ponryi Station counter offensives.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Paythoss on 22-08-2012, 20:08:42
(http://s16.postimage.org/axyl7zg8j/image.jpg)
Posted probably zillion times ... but still wish to see that Pz IV H in game  ;D

Theres a picture with Pz IV loaded with infantry behind turret , plus 2 MG gunners laying on sides of turret and aiming from MG 34 ... now i cant find that photo .... founded  ;)
(http://s15.postimage.org/ny65mlhvt/pziv066.jpg)
Is that possible to make that in game ?

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: CptdeS35 on 22-08-2012, 21:08:17
This topic is a nice idea, btw i think that people who wants to take a look at the evolution of ideas/maps caracteristics will be lost in all of those comments !
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: silian on 22-08-2012, 23:08:04
Pretty please?

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/skcoclis/i214442.jpg)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Zoologic on 23-08-2012, 21:08:05
Thanks Mudra. Yes as I understand it, there are many battles in Normandy campaign alone, and FH2 have covered a good number of them beginning, from the beach landing (Pointe-du-hoc), then continued with thrust to the south (Lebisey, PHL) and then to the Cotentin Peninsula (Cobra, Brest), and the attack to the other side as a pincer culminating from the bulge created by Luettich (Goodwood and Totalize, then Falaise Pocket).

This also makes the term "Battle of the Bulge" also a bit off. Since it involved many events and covers quite big area as well. We got the crossings of Meuse River, Eppeldorf, defense of Bastogne, Battle of Foy, St. Vith, etc... surely, it is operation Watch over Rhine, similar to Citadel, are big military campaigns, and also with ambitious goals.

Therefore to be fair, Kursk shouldn't be represented by one map only. Perhaps, the pop history version refers to the coordination and the timely execution of the attack to encircle the city of Kursk (which happens almost at the same time), therefore it is called "the Battle for Kursk."
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Turkish007 on 23-08-2012, 21:08:52
We got the crossings of Meuse River, Eppeldorf, defense of Bastogne, Battle of Foy, St. Vith, etc...

Foy? where?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 23-08-2012, 21:08:56
On the test server
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: jan_kurator on 23-08-2012, 21:08:01
Foy? where?
in Battle of Bulge

On the test server
Maybe it was but there is no Foy I know about atm. I think that limit of Ardennes map is reached.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: pizzzaman on 23-08-2012, 21:08:27
So no more bulge maps?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: jan_kurator on 23-08-2012, 22:08:19
So no more bulge maps?
EVERYTHING must be said twice for you to understand?  ::)
Well, I didn't say that for 100% but that's what I think, can't tell more.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: McCloskey on 23-08-2012, 23:08:53
Jan, who the feck gave you the right to dreamcrush?! >:( Not amused. :(

 ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 23-08-2012, 23:08:09
So no more bulge maps?
EVERYTHING must be said twice for you to understand?  ::)
Well, I didn't say that for 100% but that's what I think, can't tell more.

He's lied to us before ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: titsmcgee852 on 26-08-2012, 01:08:33
Man, Foy would be so great. Band of Brothers style, charging through the field with those hay bales under mortar and MG fire  ;D

If Foy ever makes it, I'm going to charge through the town and hook up with I company.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: McCloskey on 26-08-2012, 01:08:19
If Foy ever makes it, I'm going to charge through the town and hook up with I company.

lmao, and all the Krauts in the town will be like NOPE. ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: pizzzaman on 26-08-2012, 02:08:55
"At first the Germans didn't shoot at him. I think they couldn't quite believe what they were seeing."

Not in FH2!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Comrade Roe on 03-09-2012, 22:09:28
Looks good, I pray there is air combat in the map at some point though. at some point

Even without the air, sounds like a fun battle. Well, as battles go. Tanks, tanks... more tanks... tanks... maybe an AT here and there.

Someone is gonna be having a heckuva party with a PaK 40 in the woods.

moar crewman kits (like in Alam Halfa!)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Alakazou on 03-09-2012, 22:09:40
And I hope for massive flamethrower use by german and USSR :|
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-09-2012, 22:09:56
And I hope for massive flamethrower use by german and USSR :|
(http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/4/49/Pyro.jpg)
HUDDAH HUDDAH HUUUH!


ROKS and flammenwerfer  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: McCloskey on 03-09-2012, 22:09:11
lol, if the map is gonna be full of pyro noobs I'm gonna avoid it like the plague ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Alakazou on 03-09-2012, 22:09:19
I was killed more by rifle noob than pyro noob in fh2.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-09-2012, 23:09:46
i teamkilled more being a pyro noob then being a rifle noob...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Knoffhoff on 04-09-2012, 20:09:06
First post updated, enjoy.  ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Turkish007 on 04-09-2012, 20:09:20
Great work! Keep it up! Much appreciated.  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: TASSER on 04-09-2012, 23:09:43
Thanks for the update Knoffhoff! Looks like things are really moving along!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: RommelBr on 04-09-2012, 23:09:57
Great update! BTW, nice new Eastern Front Buldings models i see.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: th_battleaxe on 05-09-2012, 12:09:57
It's really fun to see the map in its making. And I know what a bitch it is to get the railroad lined up, tried some of that in the bf1942 editor. Keep it up, I should say
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Kwiot on 05-09-2012, 14:09:29
Looks promising so far. I have 1 question - are you posting your up to date work or have you already done much more?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Zoologic on 05-09-2012, 17:09:01
Squashing rail roads with Panzer tracks are always fun. Saw many footages of tanks doing it, one of them from the Apocalypse: The Second World War, during the march to Stalingrad, one Panzer III J with several troops mounted on its back crossed and run through a railroad supposedly running through Stalingrad city, wobbling and jiggling, kicking large amount of dust.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Turkish007 on 27-10-2012, 21:10:13
Whats goin' on? Havent heard anything for a while.  :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: pizzzaman on 27-10-2012, 21:10:24
Making a map isn't quick you know,  :P
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Turkish007 on 27-10-2012, 22:10:28
Yeah, but it has been several months till last update.   ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Rabbit032 on 16-11-2012, 00:11:39
What made you choose not to use Microdem?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Knoffhoff on 02-01-2013, 22:01:42
What made you choose not to use Microdem?

Microdem doesn't offer the resolution I want to work with and doesn't give me the freedom that creating a heightmap from scratch in PS is giving me.


The road to Prokhorovka Part 3: getting at it again

first post updated
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Kuupperi on 02-01-2013, 23:01:27
No doubt there's going to be intensive fighting on +64 servers when this map is on.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 2
Post by: Surfbird on 02-01-2013, 23:01:49
Very nice update Knoffhoff. It's great to get an insight of how a map is developed, so I'm looking forward to future updates. Thanks for your effort!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: kettcar on 02-01-2013, 23:01:50
love to read it :-))
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: pizzzaman on 02-01-2013, 23:01:43
Interested to see how the gameplay will work out.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: CptdeS35 on 03-01-2013, 02:01:49
Nice to see thoses posts ! It's a nice idea to show the work...in progress, and the progress by itself !
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: VonMudra on 03-01-2013, 05:01:54
I just hope it will be raining or at least very muddy/wet feel to it, as the real Prok happened in scattered rain storms.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Turkish007 on 03-01-2013, 06:01:54
Wow! Nice statics!  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka
Post by: Erwin on 03-01-2013, 07:01:00
Eep, just noticed that Kelmola did miss out on the Panzer IIIs!  Yes, we would def need at least a couple L's or M's on the map.  Here btw, is the actual listing of tanks available for the Germans at Prok on July 10th:

Pz III: 11
Pz IV: 42
Pz VI Tiger: 4
Marder III: 20
StuG III: 20
Pz I: 2
Pz II: 4

So I'd say maybe this:

1x Tiger
2x Panzer III
3x Panzer IV
2x Marder III
2x Stug III
1x Panzer II

So that's 12 german tanks against

7x T-34/76
4x T-70
1x KV-1/1942
2x Churchill
1x SU-76
1x SU-122

A total of 16 Russian tanks.  Maybe should up it to 8 T-34, 2 Su76, and 5 T-70, thus making it 19 russian tanks.

Did you think of the angle mod while making this set up? Russians will pwn Germans and they won't even notice. Considering Sherman 75mm deflecting Tiger shots now, I wonder how Germans will manage to destroy 8 T-34s with one Tiger. Other tanks already have difficulties against that.

I think the tank numbers should be even, if you keep giving Germans Pz IIIs and IVs.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: hyperanthropos on 03-01-2013, 13:01:11
They honestly had Panzer I around at Kursk????
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 14:01:50
Perhaps for recon. I think Pz I should be added later on the game. Would be cool to have some MG tank, like Vickers for the Brits
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: th_battleaxe on 03-01-2013, 14:01:30
Perhaps for recon. I think Pz I should be added later on the game. Would be cool to have some MG tank, like Vickers for the Brits

Pz.Kpfw I... All right, one PTRS round to the turret and it's goodbye, tin can. ONLY good for very early war maps (polish, french, some NA) We'll sooner see a Panzer 38 (t) than a I
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 14:01:40
Pz.Kpfw I... All right, one PTRS round to the turret and it's goodbye, tin can. ONLY good for very early war maps (polish, french, some NA) We'll sooner see a Panzer 38 (t) than a I
That could be imported from FH 1. I think we'll see that in the future.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: hyperanthropos on 03-01-2013, 14:01:03
I doubt it is as easy as just importing everything form FH1, or has the FH1 Panzer 38(t) modell the Sh2 ready sign?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 15:01:30
I doubt it is as easy as just importing everything form FH1, or has the FH1 Panzer 38(t) modell the Sh2 ready sign?
Could and should are two diffrent words. They of course can make a new model.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Butcher on 03-01-2013, 15:01:08
It´s pretty pointless to talk about the setup of tanks rigth now. We don´t know whether we will get a proper tank system in the next patch. If it turns out to be the retarded crap we have atm, where Shermans are nearly the equivalent of a Panther, Germans need a similar number of tanks as the Russians - and that´s bullshit.

Just fix the tanking to resemble anything even slightly plausible. Give German tanks the advantage in firepower and give Soviets more tanks. If the German 75mms struggle versus T-34s also - I´m out of this mod.

Also keep in mind that the only server that´s online atm. is the 128 player server (with about 100 players online every evening). If possible the layout should consider that amount of players, when adding tanks.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Turkish007 on 03-01-2013, 16:01:17
What do you think guys, should we have the 2.4 tanking system back?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: LuckyOne on 03-01-2013, 16:01:38
What do you think guys, should we have the 2.4 tanking system back?

No, we just need the Shermans fixed so Butcher can finally stfu. :P
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 16:01:27
Fix the tank system!Fix the tank system!Fix the tank system!Fix the tank system!Fix the tank system!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Butcher on 03-01-2013, 16:01:57
All I´m saying is that it´s hardly possible to set up the number of tanks if we don´t know how the tank system is going to work.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 17:01:49
the tank system
the tank system
the tank system
the tank system
the tank system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Butcher on 03-01-2013, 17:01:07
Who are you? I don´t even know you... pretty big mouth for someone who´s registered here for a bit more than 2 months. Spam into your useless "worst-movie" thread and let people who actually want to discuss the game, have their fun.

Do you disagree with me? Nice, then put your statement in a sentence or shut up.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 03-01-2013, 18:01:38
Butcher, so sour.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 18:01:51
Who are you? I don´t even know you... pretty big mouth for someone who´s registered here for a bit more than 2 months. Spam into your useless "worst-movie" thread and let people who actually want to discuss the game, have their fun.

Do you disagree with me? Nice, then put your statement in a sentence or shut up.
Glad that you liked it. That was my own reaction to that sentence. I wish you happy continue and mental health because that tanking system-nerf has really gotten in you're mind. Naturally, I am an inferior person, who spams questioneers and other rather childish stuff on boards, that I do to make myself a more active person in the community, since the FH2 forums are my only online community I ever actually take part of. I like FH2 probably for the same reasons as you, but even if I am less experienced in the game OR in these threads, does that make you a better person? I just wished, that you could see you're obsession in a humorous way. I am also concerned about the amount of senceless stuff that are in the game. Since you probably don't even take time to read this trough, I shall finish this message and give my sincerest of condolances for my existence in this seed of a sand flying trough space. I truly hope moderators understand me, because some people in the forums don't, even though I wish no harm to anyone.  :'(

God bless the FH2 community, you are great  ;)


(With exeption of you since you clearly had a rough day at work/school/bar/life. I think you should go to bed and say yourself "Butcher, he is only an immature dumbass teen, who knows less about life than you. There is nothing to be mad about...")
PS. I REALLY think you should take a chill pill and take a dip in a frozen lake
PPS. Ill just leave this quote here
This community is not nearly big enough for everyone to afford to be assholes to each other.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: hyperanthropos on 03-01-2013, 18:01:06
Totally agree with butcher, guys dont playing the game or very short timewriting stuff about things they have no idea of.
Only very few are atually really good at the game and know the maps, very few. But of course if you have played the game two month you know everything...

And yes fix the tanksystem, he is right.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-01-2013, 19:01:22
Holy shit butcher you sound like somebody very irritating. He was just like you, WHINING and bitching about the same thing over and over

who was he again


ooh wait....ME after the 2.2 version release

you wanna be like me back then Boychik?

No you dont

Be happy! Be cheerfull. It got me alot of positive feedback and alot of steam buddies :>




Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Turkish007 on 03-01-2013, 19:01:08
God dangit, can someone explain me what is this boychik thing you always talk about? Is it "little boy" in hebrew AFAIK?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 03-01-2013, 19:01:24
Holy shit butcher you sound like somebody very irritating. He was just like you, WHINING and bitching about the same thing over and over

who was he again


ooh wait....ME after the 2.2 version release

you wanna be like me back then Boychik?

No you dont

Be happy! Be cheerfull. It got me alot of positive feedback and alot of steam buddies :>

Oh don't flatter yourself, you're still annoying as hell :P
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: McCloskey on 03-01-2013, 19:01:25
God dangit, can someone explain me what is this boychik thing you always talk about? Is it "little boy" in hebrew AFAIK?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boychik+
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-01-2013, 19:01:41
God dangit, can someone explain me what is this boychik thing you always talk about? Is it "little boy" in hebrew AFAIK?
Boardwalk empire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tObbj_i8CkI
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 20:01:47
Yeaaa... Manchicks on thread about upcoming map.
And yea, Butcher might not know me from before, but I think I do know him now!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-01-2013, 20:01:21
i know you well enough


your blasted MG42 on cobra that is

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 20:01:14
i know you well enough


your blasted MG42 on cobra that is
Hmm... somehow I don't recall that...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-01-2013, 20:01:23
i know you well enough


your blasted MG42 on cobra that is
Hmm... somehow I don't recall that...
Watermill. Tree line

Your position was very good and you killed me 4 times untill i went=Fuck it
and just grabbed a Quad fifty and shredded you aswel as a teammate...

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 03-01-2013, 20:01:03
sorry for interrupting, but did you manage to shoot down a FW or do you still claim them to be OP?  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 20:01:07
Watermill. Tree line
Your position was very good and you killed me 4 times untill i went=Fuck it
and just grabbed a Quad fifty and shredded you aswel as a teammate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odK20vQB-7o
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-01-2013, 20:01:03
sorry for interrupting, but did you manage to shoot down a FW or do you still claim them to be OP?  ;D
IN air to air combat they are always gonne be OP TO ME  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 20:01:58
sorry for interrupting, but did you manage to shoot down a FW or do you still claim them to be OP?  ;D
IN air to air combat they are always gonne be OP TO ME  ;D
Ever since they gave FW that God-forsaken bomb in the bottom of it. As if Dual 20 mm's weren't enough...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Butcher on 03-01-2013, 20:01:07
I, myself, try to be friendly with all (wo)men here.
Try harder.

And yea, Butcher might not know me from before, but I think I do know him now!
Yeah, you totally know me know!

I didn´t consider myself "superior" or whatever you state there in your confused post. You just interprete something in there by yourself. If you are really so frightened somebody on the internet could even mildly suggest that you were inferior, I recommend contacting a psychatrist to help you with your inferiority complexes.
 
However now you make a rather strange impression on me. You post dumb threads "Worst movie ever", "Best unscoped Rifles" etc. and then think you can judge me with your arrogant behaviour. It seems like you are making those threads just for the sake of making them. Btw. you should learn how to use the search function, there has already been a thread about this before:

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=17982.0

But - clever as you are - you knew this before and just added some semi auto rifles to the list, to make a new, contentful thread.

Also I do take that "obsession" that has gotten in my mind (I think that is what you mean with "you´re mind") with humour (see the signature).

I hope your mother hasn´t totally given up on teaching you some manners. I however lost hope so far. You are some cynical and arrogant person and with this attitude you won´t come far in your sad life.

Regards and good luck learning the English genitive

Your friend Butcher.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 03-01-2013, 21:01:23
Quote
Try better.
DAMNIT I'M TRYING!

Quote
Yeah, you totally know me know!
Yes I sure do know knowing you knowadays

Quote
I didn´t consider myself "superior" or whatever you state there in your confused post. You just interprete something in there by yourself. If you are really so frightened somebody on the internet could even mildly suggest that you were inferior, I recommend contacting a psychatrist to help you with your inferiority complexes.
Well hell you sure sounded like it. Does this ring a bell...
Quote
  ...pretty big mouth for someone who´s registered here for a bit more than 2 months. Spam into your useless "worst-movie" thread and let people who actually want to discuss the game, have their fun...
This part, DID actually hurt my feelings, because I did not mean to offend you. Only people in Team Fortress 2 bully younger players (F2P's). That part ignited the entire inspiration And besides, Germans do not know the term of sarcasm.
 
Quote
However now you make a rather strange impression on me. You post dumb threads "Worst movie ever", "Best unscoped Rifles" etc. and then think you can judge me with your arrogant behaviour. It seems like you are making those threads just for the sake of making them. Btw. you should learn how to use the search function, there has already been a thread about this before
As a mater of fact I did not. What's bad about making them? The "Worst movies"-thread has been genning popularity, so why not join us and share your terrible movies list with us?

Quote
Also I do take that "obsession" that has gotten in my mind (I think that is what you mean with "you´re mind" with humour (see the signature)
Okay, let's say this. Your signature is enough. And this is not a good place to discuss about those matters. I know I talked about Panzer I and '38 here, but thats an other thing.

Quote
I hope your mother hasn´t totally given up on teaching you some manners. I however lost hope so far. You are some cynical and arrogant person and with this attitude you won´t come far in your sad life.
Don't you dare to bring my mother into this! Or things about manners! And I do think I have a bright and open mind for world, so who are you to judge that. My life ain't that sad as you display it. You claim I don't know you, but then you arrogantly make statements about my life.

Quote
Regards and good luck learning the english genitive
Thanks for you'r support to my matriculation examination on English.

Quote
Your friend Butcher.
I think you don't try to be my friend... Is that sarcasm I see?


I think we are done here. Let us both just put some apologies here and we'll forget this all. I know I have been a dumbass, because boerdom at ten o'clock in the evening is not a good time for some angry notes.
Now that my mind is quiker and far more refreshed, I think I owe you an apology. I genuenly feel sorry now. HOWEVER! you have not been acting very nicely either...

- If you arque with an idiot on the internet, don't make him feel, that you too are one.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: NTH on 04-01-2013, 14:01:29
"Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth day, at dawn look to the east" Oh Gandalf or Moderator please come and rid us of the nonsense we have to endure in this thread.

Please show some support and respect to Knoffhoff and don't drag his wonderful Blog down to your infested cesspool known as "Going off-topic"

Rather comment on how promising the tank battles will be with a good balanced map based on the mirrored layout of the flags. How interesting it will be to pitt Russian against German tanks, etc ,etc.

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 04-01-2013, 14:01:39
"Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth day, at dawn look to the east" Oh Gandalf or Moderator please come and rid us of the nonsense we have to endure in this thread.

Please show some support and respect to Knoffhoff and don't drag his wonderful Blog down to your infested cesspool known as "Going off-topic"

Rather comment on how promising the tank battles will be with a good balanced map based on the mirrored layout of the flags. How interesting it will be to pitt Russian against German tanks, etc ,etc.

About the map. I think it's well made, but I yet don't get the purpouse of three flags behind ABC-line.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: hitm4k3r on 04-01-2013, 17:01:05
"Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth day, at dawn look to the east" Oh Gandalf or Moderator please come and rid us of the nonsense we have to endure in this thread.

Please show some support and respect to Knoffhoff and don't drag his wonderful Blog down to your infested cesspool known as "Going off-topic"

Rather comment on how promising the tank battles will be with a good balanced map based on the mirrored layout of the flags. How interesting it will be to pitt Russian against German tanks, etc ,etc.

About the map. I think it's well made, but I yet don't get the purpouse of three flags behind ABC-line.

These are just different tank spawns in the mainbases so that you can attack the route you want. The distances are quite long so it fits quite well. It is the same idea like on Sidi Bou Zid where you can start from the northern or southern german main base.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Toddel on 04-01-2013, 18:01:31
I wonder why you guys cant keep this Spam free
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Lainer on 04-01-2013, 19:01:57
I wonder why you guys cant keep this Spam free

Ha!  You must be new to the FH community.  Welcome and enjoy your stay.   :D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 04-01-2013, 22:01:45
I wonder why you guys cant keep this Spam free
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22531695.jpg)


its always about the germans of WW2 when the spam starts
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: RAnDOOm on 04-01-2013, 22:01:35
.... or maybe just low IQ people that like to spam stupid things instead of staying ontopic.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 05-01-2013, 09:01:41
These are just different tank spawns in the mainbases so that you can attack the route you want. The distances are quite long so it fits quite well. It is the same idea like on Sidi Bou Zid where you can start from the northern or southern german main base.
I know, but why are they marked as separate flags. Guess they'll be removed and left as just spawn points.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 05-01-2013, 10:01:46
Propably to either ease up the system by having separate flags that do different things so not everything is tied to just one flag or just to give you an idea that the battle had different divisions fighting in the area. I could see that each flag will have division name attached to it. Possibly, maybe, perhaps...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 05-01-2013, 15:01:08
Propably to either ease up the system by having separate flags that do different things so not everything is tied to just one flag or just to give you an idea that the battle had different divisions fighting in the area. I could see that each flag will have division name attached to it. Possibly, maybe, perhaps...
Then it's okay. It would look just weird if they woldn't
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 06-01-2013, 16:01:04
What I am hoping from eastern front is a map with less chockepoints, with less statics and longer view distance. So that the enemy tank can cross over the open hill from any direction and not so that I just camp one end of a hedgehog with my AT gun/tank. I want to be able to see the enemy tank further away and I could even wait for few seconds so that the enemy gets closer so I hit for sure.

Higher velocity guns would get clear accuracy bonus and hits would be harder to score. 

Just imagine Ferdinand crossing the hill and appearing in front of Ruskies bouncing every shot and sniping T-34s with it's powerful high velocity 88. So that you wouldn't get rolfstomped by some random dude with AT-grenades because of the short distance or some random T-34-85 right that just drove to your flank in 5 seconds behind some stupid hedgehog.

I want to see El Almein style, ranged warfare not in your face roflstomp "what the fuck just happened" gameplay. I want to see enemy tanks, I want to have good perception of my surroundings and less surprise and cornercamping opportunities. LONG RANGE just like good old FH 2.15.

Lets hope Eastern front delivers.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Turkish007 on 06-01-2013, 17:01:38
I want to see El Almein style,

Allied tanks getting pwned by axis AT guns on hills?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 06-01-2013, 17:01:42
Last time I checked it was allied tanks pwning little panzies, but I'd expect more big guns for Germans on eastern front.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 06-01-2013, 18:01:51
Last time I checked it was allied tanks pwning little panzies, but I'd expect more big guns for Germans on eastern front.
Here we go again

'my panther cant killed 10 shermans in one life anymore, its UNDERPOWERD"
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Butcher on 06-01-2013, 18:01:48
I totally agree with Paavopesusieni.

Also wide open maps for long range fights are nice. Shouldn´t be hard to include some "Russian Steppe" maps. The limit however is our good old fog of war. I doubt field of vision could be improved without slowing everything, especially on the 128p server. One should however look that infantry doesn´t become totally useless or it ends up like a lot of the North Afrika maps, where someone lucky gets the tanks and the infantry can´t really move.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: BaskaBommi on 06-01-2013, 19:01:28
I don't think, that FoV needs rigging. The Free Look- mode does.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: LuckyOne on 06-01-2013, 19:01:13
One should however look that infantry doesn´t become totally useless or it ends up like a lot of the North Afrika maps, where someone lucky gets the tanks and the infantry can´t really move.

I'd like to correct that statement a bit... The infantry can actually move on most of the open maps of NA (not those where they are locked in defense like Siege of Tobruk, of course), but for some reason people rarely like using trucks/jeeps... Even when they do they like to drive off alone, and the problem of arranging a transport on a public FH 2 server... Well let's say that you have more chance of your pizza being delivered to the North Pole... :P
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Ts4EVER on 06-01-2013, 20:01:55
that I just camp one end of a hedgehog with my AT gun/tank

Well whatever floats your boat but IIRC bestiality was made illegal in Germany recently.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Biiviz on 06-01-2013, 20:01:03
that I just camp one end of a hedgehog with my AT gun/tank

Well whatever floats your boat but IIRC bestiality was made illegal in Germany recently.

In this economy? The German porn industry will collapse!

Luckily ass-to-mouth is still perfectly legal.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Pejsaty on 09-04-2013, 19:04:11
Any update?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Butcher on 09-04-2013, 19:04:05
Any update?
Yeah! Ass-to-mouth is still legal!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Pejsaty on 09-04-2013, 19:04:13
Any update?
Yeah! Ass-to-mouth is still legal!

uh?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Turkish007 on 09-04-2013, 19:04:04
Any update?
Yeah! Ass-to-mouth is still legal!

uh?

Its from the previous chat:

that I just camp one end of a hedgehog with my AT gun/tank

Well whatever floats your boat but IIRC bestiality was made illegal in Germany recently.

In this economy? The German porn industry will collapse!

Luckily ass-to-mouth is still perfectly legal.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: THeTA0123 on 09-04-2013, 19:04:57
german porn is hilarious  ;D  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Pejsaty on 09-04-2013, 20:04:53
Jeez, I don't know what are you smoking, but I didn't expect such answer...  ::)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: jan_kurator on 09-04-2013, 20:04:16
Jeez, I don't know what are you smoking, but I didn't expect such answer...  ::)
Jeez, I don't know what are you smoking to not realize that there is no update and if there will be one Knoffhoff will post it.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Pejsaty on 09-04-2013, 20:04:43
Jeez, I don't know what are you smoking, but I didn't expect such answer...  ::)
Jeez, I don't know what are you smoking to not realize that there is no update and if there will be one Knoffhoff will post it.

4 months since last update is quite much, don't you think? It would be good to give some information what is the current status of the map...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Krätzer on 10-04-2013, 01:04:47
Maybe the same? Knoffhoff could be busy with his Real Life...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Alakazou on 10-04-2013, 01:04:38
Dev don't have real life, it's just a myth. Everyone know you arn't real :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Roughbeak on 25-06-2013, 15:06:04
Is it possible to make this into 32 and 16 also? :)

64: Large tank battle map, with Tigers, small/medium/large panzers, t34s etc. Even some planes
32: Medium tank battle map, with medium to small panzers, t34s etc.
16: Only with light tanks: panzer IIs, t26, bt7 (cannot remember any other russian light tanks ;))
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 25-06-2013, 16:06:48
T-70?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Roughbeak on 25-06-2013, 16:06:57
Yes T70 also.

Think of this (T26) going against a Tiger ;D
(http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/galleries/T-26/2/T_26M33_2.jpg)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 25-06-2013, 16:06:28
poor bastard  ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: th_battleaxe on 25-06-2013, 17:06:29
yup, Tiger will laugh himself to death when he sees those ears.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: PanzerKnacker on 25-06-2013, 18:06:00
I can't describe how I can't wait to see a massive armored clash on russian plains.

No matter on which side I play, really. Just to see that massive struggle between tanks, infantry, AT guns and planes. On 128 server a Prokhorovka would be a server-filler I tell you, I can already see 128 players on that map. Glorious.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Godall on 13-07-2013, 23:07:20
Today is 70 year anniversary of the  Prokhorovka battle. Ура! Ураа Урааа! :D
I want to see the progress in the implementation of the FH2 map. 8)

(http://www.youreporter.ru/images/83237/83/832378365.jpg)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Zulnex on 14-07-2013, 22:07:31
Fantastic update as always!  8)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Thinner_Swe on 01-10-2013, 18:10:02
Yes T70 also.

Think of this (T26) going against a Tiger ;D

It got glasses! Finally a tank that I can relate to!
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Godall on 10-07-2014, 19:07:48
When can we see the continuation of blog? How is Prokhorovka?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Ts4EVER on 10-07-2014, 19:07:01
When can we see the continuation of blog? How is Prokhorovka?

Sadly, there is no development going on on Prokhorovka, since Knoffhoff left the team for personal reasons.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Godall on 10-07-2014, 21:07:47
When can we see the continuation of blog? How is Prokhorovka?

Sadly, there is no development going on on Prokhorovka, since Knoffhoff left the team for personal reasons.

I may have helped you finish the map? Me need only static objects and map. Сonfidentiality of information is guaranteed.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Ts4EVER on 10-07-2014, 22:07:14
If you send an application with some examples of previous work you can be admitted as an applicant and work on any map you want...
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Godall on 11-07-2014, 00:07:37
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=14551.0

I made ​​this map. But I lost it after unforeseen formatting. I just did Pavlov's House map, but it also lost.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Ts4EVER on 11-07-2014, 02:07:14
Any maps that were actually finished?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 22-09-2014, 22:09:35
Is prohorovka finished??
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Ts4EVER on 22-09-2014, 22:09:52
No, knoffhoff is inactive due to personal reasons.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka Part 3
Post by: Ts4EVER on 02-07-2015, 17:07:00
Hi!
I know most of you are probably looking forward to the Russian front quite a bit, making the long wait a lot harder. Some of you might even ask yourself: What is taking them so long? Well, to tell you the truth, the Eastern Front is the biggest content update since Normandy was added in Forgotten Hope 2.2 all those years ago. A patch like this involves new maps, new vehicles that need to be modded and coded, new hand weapons that need to be animated, new sounds that need to be created and all of this stuff needs to be tested. All this needs to be achieved with a team that is quite a bit smaller than in the past.

And no matter how hard you work, sometimes real life simply kicks you in the balls and you have to take a leave of absence. As you can see from this thread, Knoffhoff was very enthusiastic about this map, but he had to stop working on it.

Luckily, sometimes when God closes a window, he opens a can of beer (or however that saying goes). Fuchswiesel recently came back after a long pause and now that Sammatus is finished, he is working hard to bring this iconic map into FH2 after all. I mean we can't very well leave it out, if you think about it.
So I thought I would lift all your spirits by showing some (still heavily WIP and subject to change) screenshots from the latest beta version of Prokhorovka, including some new equipment you might not have seen ingame yet.

Enjoy!

(http://i.imgur.com/MgtHN3K.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/kgmd3WB.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/cBTmxC0.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/O7e6Knu.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/rgqvr72.png)

So now all that is left is praying to the God of Real Life for mercy I guess...  ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 02-07-2015, 17:07:30
I knew it!!! Thank you Ts4ever and Fuchwiesel!! I saw him on forum and I asked myself:Is he new? Or back!
Edit:That Pnz3 has awsome new skin!

Ts,I saw you edited first post right? What did you change?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: LuckyOne on 02-07-2015, 18:07:29
It's aliveeeeee!!!

Seriously, good job guys! It wouldn't be Eastern front without Prokhorovka!

(Why do I have a feeling the German tanks will get slaughtered by the hundreds on this map - at least if they have no skilled pilots :P)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 02-07-2015, 18:07:39
In real they got slaughered preety much,if not they would win in real life.
Edit:whats happining? Ts put something like THIS and nobody answering?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Roughbeak on 02-07-2015, 21:07:56
Continuing the dev blog...

The last photo Ts posted is, indeed, a new custom static mesh made by me (the wooden barn in the middle); unfortunately it cannot be shown with its full glory as a closed variant. ;D

Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: pizzzaman on 02-07-2015, 21:07:58
You can never have enough panzer iii's  :P. Brilliant work by Fuchswiesel, thank you devs.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Eat Uranium on 02-07-2015, 22:07:09
Edit:That Pnz3 has awsome new skin!
Actually, that's just the old FH1 skins.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 02-07-2015, 22:07:30
 Thanks for this Ts4ever....

 Listen, we all are eager for new content & yes, we are ALL a lot impatient......

 but regardless of what others may say, the EF & hopefully FH2 Standalone done right & together would resurrect this mod to height not seen since 2010.

 I salute you sir and your whole team & patiently await orders to deploy to the east.


Sincerely,

$talkker




P.S..... I had forgotten about Sammatus. It has a very different woodland feel to it compared to Hurtgen.
 ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 02-07-2015, 22:07:59
Edit:That Pnz3 has awsome new skin!
Actually, that's just the old FH1 skins.
Well,I havent ever played FH1 :-[
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Mudzin on 02-07-2015, 22:07:15
Is this map a port of FH1 map?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 02-07-2015, 22:07:27
Is this map a port of FH1 map?
You are trolling,right?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: jan_kurator on 02-07-2015, 22:07:49
Is this map a port of FH1 map?
No, why?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Roughbeak on 02-07-2015, 23:07:42
Is this map a port of FH1 map?

FH2's one is based on real world terrain.

To answer your question, no. :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: gamerjer on 02-07-2015, 23:07:27
looks great! keep em comming guys ;D
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Mudzin on 02-07-2015, 23:07:48
Is this map a port of FH1 map?
No, why?

I saw Seelow Heights being ported, so I could suppose that Prokhorovka might be also ported? No?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Ts4EVER on 03-07-2015, 00:07:23
Except there is an original gameplay plan posted in the OP of this thread....
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Wulfburk on 03-07-2015, 00:07:26
Looking great!  :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Hauggy on 03-07-2015, 00:07:51
Thank you guys you're the very best !
So far so good, at least we're sure you worked your asses off it's some jaw dropping stuff, I couldn't imagine eastern front without Kursk and the waves of panzer 3. :)
I hope we'll have some tiger(s) or ferdi for the germans or was this battle only fought by Panzer 3 (I just know that was the most common tank at the time) ?
Will there be a part with minefields and AT positions ?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Hauggy on 03-07-2015, 00:07:28
Also Ts4ever may I ask if you still work on that Berlin outskirts map ? I think Seelow heights right ?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Ts4EVER on 03-07-2015, 20:07:31
Contrary to popular opinion, there were no Ferdinands at Prokhorovka, as well as no Panthers. These were used in different sectors. You have to remember that the "battle of Kursk" was of comparable scale as the "battle of Normandy".
On this map the Germans in terms of tanks will have Panzer IIIL, Panzer IIIN, Tiger I, Panzer IVH, StuGIIIG, Marder III, the Russians T70, T34/76, Churchill, SU76M, SU152.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: nysä on 03-07-2015, 23:07:57
Nice, one Wespe wouldn't hurt either 8)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Hauggy on 04-07-2015, 07:07:08
Sounds good.
So that means there's a second map based on the battle of Kursk planned to fit the Ferdi ^^
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 04-07-2015, 09:07:19
So that means there's a second map based on the battle of Kursk planned to fit the Ferdi ^^

No plans afaik.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: jan_kurator on 04-07-2015, 10:07:11
Sounds good.
So that means there's a second map based on the battle of Kursk planned to fit the Ferdi ^^
I don't think so, but there is a WIP map with ferdi on it. You know, they were used outside of Kursk as well ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Hauggy on 04-07-2015, 10:07:20
I had no idea since it was such a failure at kursk.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 04-07-2015, 11:07:42
I think if one was to have ferdi's on a kursk map, ponyri would be ideal for it.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: jan_kurator on 04-07-2015, 12:07:54
Ponyri would be great FH2 map, with a simple conquest layout fitting the real life events (village of Ponyri changed hands several times during few days of the battle). Just imagine heavy fortified village and entrenched positions around it with russian infantry fighting off hordes of german infantrymen supported by german tanks and Ferdinands TDs. Also, I can imagine pretty epic 16 or 32 players layer covering the fighting for the trainstation, school or tractor depot. Too bad, it would require a lot of custom static objects to bring such map to FH2 quality standards.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Dancho on 01-07-2016, 21:07:21
May the shy, little, cute kid ask is there any progress with the map?
No, seriously, it has been like 5 months since the last info about the map. We need some little progress to keep the hope unforgotten.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 01-07-2016, 21:07:32
is there any progress with the map?

Yes.  :)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Dancho on 01-07-2016, 21:07:54
Now I can sleep peacefuly.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 13-10-2016, 21:10:10
I love some of those big Russian maps in wide open spaces. Reminds me of some of those Battlegroup2 maps.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: FHMax3 on 15-11-2016, 19:11:03
Its still 2016, coming in update 2.54 or 2.6??
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: FHMax3 on 26-04-2017, 20:04:16
Quick question: Will the Russians get the Po-2?? Skybox seems the similar but brighter:
(http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/original_461638_WyizSikzZQRHyLKPfYhDf_xSD.jpg)

And is this from Prohorovka:
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/121216/three.jpg)

Turns out Prohorvka was a testing ground for flying tank program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSFY3Sop1OE
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Ts4EVER on 26-04-2017, 21:04:58
The map in the first picture is Operation Cobra.

The second is Sammatus.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: FHMax3 on 26-04-2017, 21:04:07
The map in the first picture is Operation Cobra.

The second is Sammatus.
But what about the flying tank program?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Slayer on 27-04-2017, 00:04:35
It is SUPER SECRET!

Why did you even mention it??!? Oh well, it was nice having known you, FHMax3.
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: FHMax3 on 08-05-2017, 08:05:20
It is SUPER SECRET!

Why did you even mention it??!? Oh well, it was nice having known you, FHMax3.
I am thinking the Waffen SS uniforms are placeholders for some other model.....
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: SgtAlex on 09-11-2018, 15:11:34
Any news on the map? Any chance to see it released on 2018? It would be a nice Xmas gift dont you think?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: jan_kurator on 09-11-2018, 17:11:51
Any news on the map? Any chance to see it released on 2018? It would be a nice Xmas gift dont you think?
No. This map is cursed. Everyone who starts working on it goes AWOL. Lets leave it alone ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 10-11-2018, 00:11:14
The road to Prokhorovka is apparently endless..........
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: VonMudra on 10-11-2018, 01:11:15
Pray for rain.  ;)
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Adûnâi on 13-02-2019, 23:02:46
So hyped when saw this topic. Then look at the OP, see 2012...

GimliOnBalin'sTomb.jpg
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 14-02-2019, 01:02:50
Prok is still out there, in the beta files... lurking... waiting for it's next victim to try and finish it before it spits him out of the FH2 community forever
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: blander on 14-02-2019, 04:02:16
I bet it needs loads of new content, right?
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 14-02-2019, 05:02:45
Not necessarily. We have a good amount of stuff that also fits the Summer of 43 setting. Reskins can do the trick
Title: Re: The road to Prokhorovka New Update
Post by: blander on 14-02-2019, 05:02:40
I wouldn´t mind having a look at it some day.