Author Topic: Tanks and Kits  (Read 2152 times)

Offline leGriffu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 100
    • View Profile
    • Team CONT@CT!
Tanks and Kits
« on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:25 »
Hello all!

i would like to know if it be possible to create 2 kits for Tanks:
1 Tank "Driver"
1 Tank "Marksman"
It would give one + to the game play and team play and
It would avoid the ascendancy of a single player in tank




Offline VonMudra

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 8.248
  • FH2 Betatester/Verdun Team Researcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #1 on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:10 »
Um...huh?


Far as I can tell, you're saying that there should be a driver and a gunner on a tank.  This has been talked about many times, and thee answer is no.  There isn't enough teamwork, coordination, or enough players to allow that.  Its not happening, not now, not ever, on the BF2 engine.  If people suddenly learn to cooperate, communications in game is made easier, and we get the ability to have games with 200, 300 people on each side, then it might work.  As of now, no.
« Last Edit: 20-04-2009, 09:04:56 by VonMudra »

Offline Die Happy

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.758
  • Live Long & Die Happy
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #2 on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:15 »
i guess he wants the driver / gunner in tanks seperated
but as the devs have often stated this will not happen as the communication is not fast/good enough in bf2. as long as you are not using some 3rd party voicechat or good coordinated ingame voicechat this is an impractical thing for fh2.
Live Long & Die Happy

Offline bosco

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
    • Project Reality
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #3 on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:46 »
/hijack in progress

Would be awesome to have the current tanker kit spawnable+pickup on all maps (with tanks of course) and make it mandatory to operate a tank... I'm sick of seeing people driving around in armor with special kits like LMG or SMG, thus blocking and wasting it for the infantry who need it.

Offline Fuchs

  • No lollygagging
  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 6.655
  • Traction Wars Propaganda Officer
    • View Profile
    • Traction Wars - WWII Free to Play Game
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #4 on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:09 »
When I tank, I tank with an engineers kit.
Bosco's suggestion could fit in FH2 just to filter tankers from goofers. I'm ok with it as long as it got a wrench.

But how would we use this class? Just as in Alam Halfa, removing close quarters? Or pick up? First one wont work IMO.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline bosco

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
    • Project Reality
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #5 on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:25 »
When I tank, I tank with an engineers kit.

That's what smart tankers do - most tankers aren't smart though  ;)

And yes, the tanker kit should have a wrench, just like it does now and in FH42.

Offline leGriffu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 100
    • View Profile
    • Team CONT@CT!
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #6 on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:58 »
What I wanted to say it is that would be needed a driver player + a player for the canon (??? sorry for my bad english  ::))
A single player in a tank could:
Either move or fire but not 2 at the same time
And thus have necessarily 2 players in a tank to use it correctly.

Offline Fuchs

  • No lollygagging
  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 6.655
  • Traction Wars Propaganda Officer
    • View Profile
    • Traction Wars - WWII Free to Play Game
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #7 on: 20-04-2009, 09:04:56 »
Doesn't fit in FH2's gameplay. FH2 wants to re-create the massive battlefields of WW2, now you can have an immense number of 32 tanks on each side (if available) if you limit it to 2 players each side that will be 16 tanks.
And 2-manned tanks will be 50% 1-manned which is utterly annoying, same level as an LMG/SMG gunner driving a tank.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline leGriffu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 100
    • View Profile
    • Team CONT@CT!
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #8 on: 20-04-2009, 10:04:14 »
We could say the same thing for the mortar (marksman + RCON) and the artillery...no ?

Offline Die Happy

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.758
  • Live Long & Die Happy
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #9 on: 20-04-2009, 10:04:47 »
you would need an insane amount of kits just to have enough for all tanks
and each kit is a networkable and networkables are a VERY limited recourse in the BF2 engine.
if you have more pickupkits you would need to reduce the number of vehicles or static emplacements on maps.

if you now ask why there are special pilot kits
that easy:
- you dont have so many pilots kits
- pilots kits have a parachute
- that would allow easy backcapping, however once you picked up a pilot kit in your (ingame)live you CANT capture any flags in this live
Live Long & Die Happy

Offline Moku

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 324
  • Waaagh!
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #10 on: 20-04-2009, 11:04:25 »
Well the other way around would to make engineer kit mandatory for getting into a tank so no one would waste their smg/mg/whatever special kit by going for a tank. And as Fuchs said every smart one already takes engineer kit for tanking.

Offline Admiral Donutz

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 901
  • Betatester
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #11 on: 20-04-2009, 11:04:15 »
We could say the same thing for the mortar (marksman + RCON) and the artillery...no ?

Though I can see why you see a simularity (these require two people to work effectively) it's not quite the same:

- A person can still fire the mortar/artillery/.../  without using spots given to him.
* With tank crews seperated (1 gunner, 1 driver) you would always need to have two people, or hop between places Red Orchastra style.
- More then one person can spot for the gunner, "everyone" (with a binocular)  can spot for every person sitting behind arty/mortar/... thus under good conditions more then one gunner and mroe then one spotter might help each other out. If 1 spot is bad the artillery guy can use an other spot from an other person instead.
* With tank crews it would only be 1 gunner and 1 driver. A driver can't "use" an other person (in an other tanlk) to shoot for him. If the gunner is a bad shot the driver is out of luck.
- The same goes the other way around, a sotter can give a good spot. If one mortar guy sucks an other might do a better job with his own mortar.
* If the gunner in the tank is good but the driver is an idiot this will make things ver diffiuclt for the gunner (tank driving aay just while the gunner wants to make a shot at an enemy).
- The spotters can also perform other tasks like most infantery and capture flags etc. Thus it doesn't reduce the amount of people (soldiers) that attack the enemy.
* A gunner and a tanker would mean twice as many people are needed to use tanks. Or to say it differently: Only half as much people can now attack the enemy. Instead of having 1 infantery man and 1 tank(er) you now got 1 tank active on the battlefield.
- Spotting andusing spot does require some communication (you need to ask for a good spot etc.) but idue to the above reasons, you can use other spots or don't use any spots at all and still be able to help your team out.
* A driver and gunner depend a LOT on communication: The driver must stop when the gunner wants to shot (ideally), the driver must turn it's front armour to the enemy as  it is the ebst part of the tank, the gunner would propbaly wish to know the drier is going to make a (sharp) turn so he can "compensate" and keep the barrel pointing in the same direction. The gunnerand driver need to talk when it's time to relocate, drive away, backup etc. etc. etc.

Too complicated. I wouldn't mind dedicated driver and gunner rules but only if:
- We have a game with 500 to a 1.000 or more people in it
- We have a game with good communication (everybody uses a microphone and uses it properly for clear communication or some othersystem that makes for easy, fast and clear communication)

And many other fans, betatesters and devs agree. Or atleast pretty much all of them think splitting the driver and gunner is a bad idea and won't happen in FH2. ;) Sorry...  

Well the other way around would to make engineer kit mandatory for getting into a tank so no one would waste their smg/mg/whatever special kit by going for a tank. And as Fuchs said every smart one already takes engineer kit for tanking.
It would make more sense if it would demand a special tanker kit OR sapper kit (ea any kit with a wrench).

Having said that, there are good reasons to have people with special kits in tanks. Mostly as (temporary) passengers:
- You have a special kit and are near a friendly tank (empty or controlled) and are taking fire. You'de might wish to find cover in the tank in some situations (ea if I don't get in that  tank I'm a dead man).
- You are using the tank as a "taxi" from the base to the front, it saves you a walk and you can give the tanker covering fire with the hull MG or perhaps even from the other seats if available.
- You have a special kit but enemy armour is closing in on you, you might wish to borrow that friendly empty tank for a minute to take out the enemy armour.

So locking tanks out for kits would only kind of work if it would lock out the drivers position only and not the support/passenger positions such as the hull MG and deck "seats".
« Last Edit: 20-04-2009, 11:04:46 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline bakehouse

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #12 on: 20-04-2009, 11:04:27 »
if u really want to see this feature in game and i mean its like a end all or be all then play red orchestra first and see how frustrating it is when your in a t34 trying to shoot a panther when u have a driver that is at full speed and going the wrong way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(just a question: with this whole bf2 engine limitations thing would EA have the power to change the engine like change a few bits of code or something to allow stuff for example tow able objects by the use of a patch or would that just not be possible as it is on every disc and cannot be changed via a patch thing???)
:) WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............its hell>>>>>>>>deal with it :)

Offline Die Happy

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.758
  • Live Long & Die Happy
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #13 on: 20-04-2009, 12:04:06 »
i m not sure if EA / DICE created the BF2 engine or if they just licensed it. however i think in both cases they should be able to do whatever they want with the engine (unless they got some sort of restricted licensed version)
however i can imagine adding stuff to a functioning engine is troublesome, you have to make sure everything works and so much effort on such an old game/engine is just not profitable. we can be lucky if the 1.5 patch dosent screw up the whole game/mod.
Live Long & Die Happy

Offline Archimonday

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.197
  • Sir vis pacem, para bellum!
    • View Profile
Re: Tanks and Kits
« Reply #14 on: 20-04-2009, 13:04:38 »
No Refraction Games created the Refractor Engine originally for Codename Eagle, and then DICE bought the company and updated it to Refractor 2 for BF1942 all the way through BF2142. Now they have switched to frostbite.