Poll

AFTER READING THE FIRST POST... which option do you prefer?

Leave it as is (Germans have unlimited G43s in Rifleman-Slot on some American maps)
Historical option: G43s are pickup only or in limited in secondary kits like on PeB or PHL
The Compromise option: G43s are moved to the scout kit on maps where they are presently unlimited in the rifleman kit

Author Topic: The over-abundance of G43s  (Read 23221 times)

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #30 on: 05-07-2010, 17:07:16 »
For Normandy there is not much to think about. A clear vote for option 2. The G43 was very scarce and in my opinion has no place in the spawn menu, not even as a limited spawnclass.
If the map doesn't work without it, it is the maps problem. Design the maps that they work with the weapons historically used at the time the map is set.

Yes. And may I add, I always thought pickup kit placement, especially of the G43 was done very nicely on Goodwood. Almost all pickup kits are at forward flags and in environments where they are useful, without making them K98k 2.0.

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In my opinion the ratio on any limited spawnclass should never exceed 0.16 which on a full server allows 6 people to use that class. Exception could of course be made on maps that feature units, it is known that they were especially well equipped.

I think you meant that?

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In my opinion the engineer is not really needed on the later maps. His mines already got removed for Normandy because of the maps being much more narrow.
The Geballte Ladung he has now is of course fun but in the matter of gameplay rather insignificant. The only thing that is important on the engineer is the wrench. But that could easily be issued by pickup ammokits at static defences and pickup pilot and tanker kits at vehiclespawns.

This is true, although I have to say I am kind of uncomfortable with the thought of having no spawnable wrench... but on later maps it would work I guess.
This brings up another point I recently noted: on American maps ammo kits are very often used for frontline duty because people seem to have taken a liking to the P14 Enfield rifle. I'd suggest adding a pickup "Marksman" kit on same maps that has the rifle + perhaps a scout loadout. You know, like some crackshot prefers the bolt action rifle and takes it instead of the Garand, stuff like that probably happened in the real war too. But I digress.

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Something like this:



Is that a screenshot from a late war map you're working on?  ;D

@Natty: Yes we all know we would probably get magically tons of new players if we went more arcade and accesible, but really? Do you think people would stop playing because of having less G43s? The people who would do that stopped playing already, after going 1/-12/8 in their first round.
I'm sure Slayer could do an electro pop number over satellites and win the Eurovision Song Contest, but their fans would still throw beer bottles, motorcycles and midgets at them until they played "Raining Blood" and got the Solo just right.
And what would going more mainstream accomplish for FH2? I mean what would set us apart from modern fps games? Our awesome graphics? Well they are, for a 2005 game we are pretty leet. But we have no destroyable environment, unlockable or customizable stuff or an awesome sp campaign. What we have is historical accuracy and authenticity. We don't cut the corners other games do and that sets us apart. Just like PR is set apart by their Teamplay and open maps etc. Know your strenghts.
And don't get me wrong, if somebody does a map that is 100% like a real place and it turns out it isn't fun and one side gets raped allt he time, then I would be the first to say "tough crap, now change it". But these loadout stuff is stuff we can change and we can design in a historically accurate way without screwing up everything. So I think we should do it.

Offline Topdogger

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #31 on: 05-07-2010, 17:07:55 »
I have played with k98 v garrand on a few forgotten honor battles.
It is no fun bolt actions against semi auto's. Close and medium range you get absolutly raped.
If germans lost g43 would mean american loosing bar's and sub machine guns to balance IMO.
I think its good as it is as variety is one of the things that makes this mod so good.
If you have a problem with too many g43 why not make a personal choice and use the k98 your self 8)

Offline Smiles

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #32 on: 05-07-2010, 19:07:35 »
Yesterday on PDH and PHL i tried to pickup every ammo kit with Springfield. I love that rifle.
I'm taking my own freedom
puttin' it in my song
singing loud and strong
proving all day long
I'm takin' my freedom
puttin' it in my stroll
I'll be hop-steppin' y'all
lettin' the joy unfold

Offline Excavus

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #33 on: 05-07-2010, 22:07:11 »
I have played with k98 v garrand on a few forgotten honor battles.
It is no fun bolt actions against semi auto's. Close and medium range you get absolutly raped.
If germans lost g43 would mean american loosing bar's and sub machine guns to balance IMO.
I think its good as it is as variety is one of the things that makes this mod so good.
If you have a problem with too many g43 why not make a personal choice and use the k98 your self 8)
Dammit, that was the American advantage. They had semi-auto rifles. You want to take away their advantage and make them even more shitty? Find a way to counter it. Blast them to bits with a Panther, I don't care. The G43 has no place in the current numbers on any map.

Offline Topdogger

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #34 on: 05-07-2010, 23:07:49 »
Dammit, that was the American advantage. They had semi-auto rifles. You want to take away their advantage and make them even more shitty? Find a way to counter it. Blast them to bits with a Panther, I don't care. The G43 has no place in the current numbers on any map.

The maps where I expierienced this were very infantry orientated. Semi vs bolt action can only work where bolt actions is on the defensive with little to no troop transports or wide open tank maps.

Realy I don't see it that way at the minute the weapons layouts on each team is pretty well balanced IMO.
Why change this for a few history buffs for the expense of the whole community.
Way I see it we have balance with variey at the minute which is good enough for me. Maybe more axis mg42's and mp40 would help even it out but then people would bitch about the quantity of them.

« Last Edit: 05-07-2010, 23:07:43 by Topdogger »

Offline Josh094

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #35 on: 05-07-2010, 23:07:03 »
To put it simply.

You wouldn't give all the Americans the rare, unscoped springfield as their primary weapon to balance it with the German's K98 so don't give the Germans the rare, semi-automatic G43s as their primary weapon to balance it with the American's semi-automatic Garand. Nuff said.

HISTORICAL ACCURACY > BALANCE


Offline Seth_Soldier

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #36 on: 05-07-2010, 23:07:30 »
Imo the cool point about fh1 was that the k98 was a deadly pixel shooter while the semi automatic needed more skills. Both weapons had advantages and disavantages and generally i far prefer a k98 over semi in fh1 because it was easier to kill.

Semi like g43 or stg44 was so rare that it was awesome to get one for the fun to shoot with it. In fh2, it's so common that there is no more magic in these weapons.

Offline Dnarag1M

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #37 on: 05-07-2010, 23:07:06 »
Now that we're talking automatic weapons.

Wth is up with the FG42 ? It is the most pixel-accurate, deadly long range single-shot weapon in the game ...
I have killed soooo many pixels on PHLane with that gun. When a squad comes close, switch to full auto and pwn the shit out of them all again...

No allied (or axis) gun can come close to this puppy, and it's a spawnkit on PHL! aaargh! :) Now that is something to talk about, forget the G43..it barely has an influence on combat in my view.

I like the G43, but I cant say I will pick it over a good k98 kit such as engineer or pzfaust. It's just an anti-inf kit and with all the tanks running around I would rather have a can-opener with me to frustrate some metal toys out there.

My $0.02

Offline VonMudra

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #38 on: 05-07-2010, 23:07:37 »
What's wrong with it as a spawn kit?  Sure, only 7000-8000 FG42 ever existed, but there were also only around 75,000 or so FJ at any one time.  So it evens out quite well :P  It was a rare gun if you total up the entire german army, but amoung the very small number of FJ, it becomes common place.

Offline Yronno

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #39 on: 06-07-2010, 01:07:05 »
For those who want it, an image:


:P

Offline Vernah

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #40 on: 06-07-2010, 04:07:14 »
Im for limited spawnable G43 classes, not pickup. The G43 wasn't so rare like a sniper, etc.

Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #41 on: 06-07-2010, 05:07:47 »
The absolute simplest solution to this problem would be more than 7 classes in the spawn menu.  This of course is simple only in that it removes the problem.  While it is possible to customise the spawn menu, only a few people have done it and I imagine it was quite hard.

Offline Excavus

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #42 on: 06-07-2010, 06:07:31 »
Play Sandbox mod. Look at their spawn menu.

Offline Yronno

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #43 on: 06-07-2010, 06:07:34 »
The absolute simplest solution to this problem would be more than 7 classes in the spawn menu.  This of course is simple only in that it removes the problem.  While it is possible to customise the spawn menu, only a few people have done it and I imagine it was quite hard.
I was thinking of saying that, but I was afraid I would be abused. :-\
I also didn't know it was possible.
Play Sandbox mod. Look at their spawn menu.
It seems that it is.

One problem is that if you do it on one map, won't you have to do it for others? Even if you don't, wouldn't it break the consistency? Maybe I'm just too skeptical, as this is the best solution I've seen so far. Maybe we could also make less classes for some maps, like Tunis, where there are two 'Rifle Assault' classes that are the exact same.

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: The over-abundance of G43s
« Reply #44 on: 06-07-2010, 13:07:26 »
As I said, the perfect solution would be having more kit options due to kit unlocking thingie. But that is a whole different discussion and for now we have to take what we got.