Player base development - How do we keep this mod alive?

[jan_kurator]

Kinda off topic but I just got off a round where some people where talking about client side 'cheats.' like turning off fog or making soldier textures pink. People who do this would certainly ruin the game imo, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who'd be that stupid.

5hitm4k3r, as an admin, is it possible to catch people who mod the client side of FH to their advantage, have you seen things like that?

Such cheats are possible and can't be really detected by server admins, I think. But using such methods just to have better K/D ratio in game like FH2 means that someone's utterly retarded or just doing it to ruin game for others. If that's the reason we can't fight it, they will find other way to fuck the game up for us.

[kingtiger1891]

A game would be more veteran friendly as its weaponary is more lethal. Let's face it..

[Zoologic]

Making soldier textures pink is quite a change in the packaged files. Doesn't the server detects the discrepancy?

All of you seemed to blame K/D ratio, so why not remove that K/D stat? That will practically remove every players who are after stat. Let's see what are the negative consequences. I think the substituting reward should be more than just smug in the face or bragging rights with generally accepted benchmark of l33tness that is high K/D ratio.

[hitm4k3r]

Kinda off topic but I just got off a round where some people where talking about client side 'cheats.' like turning off fog or making soldier textures pink. People who do this would certainly ruin the game imo, but for the life of me I can't think of anyone who'd be that stupid.

5hitm4k3r, as an admin, is it possible to catch people who mod the client side of FH to their advantage, have you seen things like that?

I know that there are a few things possible, but it is ofcourse impossible to detect such stuff same as with normal cheats like wallhacks and aimbots. We had problems with a player called horsefucker/cockcheese/Kassunakki etc. He had many reincarnations and was/is something like the Chuck Norris of FH2. Just imagine a mix of Karell, DayZlayer and Unique but even better with all those assets. We banned him after long observations, internal discussions and at the end with gud feel. His first reaction in our forum from him was "How did you find out that I was cheating?". So I think we handled it quite good.

I also know people who have crappy hardware and need to play on lowest settings, wich is a huge advantage. No need to change any files. I read about other cheats like louder sounds etc, but at the end they are real cheats and hard to detect.

@Zoo: good point about the K/D. In RO/RO2 people mostly forget about their K/D as it is not displayed ingame and it is one of the things where FH2 or BF in general lags behind. Would give a riot 

[Flippy Warbear]

a player called horsefucker/cockcheese/Kassunakki etc.

His first reaction in our forum from him was "How did you find out that I was cheating?".

Shameful dispray. And then people wonder why I dont like to play games with my fellow finns.

[hitm4k3r]

Don't feel ashamed Flippy. You will always find idiots, no matter where you go. 

[FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE]

"quasi cheaters;" (people who don't cheat, but the end effect is the same for the rest of the player base).

That's the best way I've heard to describe anyone like a Major Koenig. They don't cheat outright but instead dedicate their lives to sniping people as fast as they can and in the end ruin the game for a lot of new players. It's like playing basketball with LeBron James; fun and interesting for a while, but in the end you're just gonna rage quit after the 10th time he dunks on you. (for you Europeans, think Lionel Messi )

I don't think that highly skilled people are a problem of FH2. At times, when DaZlayer was active nobody complained about it besides the usual cheating suspicions that some of us get once in a while. Last time on Keren I was the last surviving Italian and had a good run with the rifle and killed like 8 guys in a row. Ofcourse someone instantly called me a cheater, a guy who I had never seen on the server before. 

Tbh, when I am new to a game I try to adapt to it, no matter how experienced other people are. When I got into Insurgency (when it was a mod) for example, I simply knew that it's gonna be frustrating. Not even talking about RO and DH. You just have to keep trying. I had my problems with Major Koenig but after a certain point you get to know how people play and even people like Unique or Major Koenig get predictable and vulnerable. Today Major Koenig is just one of many players for me. Can't kill him head to head with a rifle? Well, get an SMG or MG and flank him. Atleast that guy is active, a good teamplayer and always on the front line.

What really pisses me of are the statswhores who really destroy the game. People who always go for the most lame asset and only go for spawnkilling, using commander arty or only sitting on the big arty pieces where they feel untouchable. I played like two days ago and I had a serious problem with Angevin. On Bardia he placed a tripod in line of sight of a spawn on the last flag just to rack up some kills. People on the server started to complain as it was certainly not fair play and asked the admins to kick him. One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards. Ofcourse he started to whine and taking screen shots because his awesome K/D of 32:0 was f*cked up and only 32:2 afterwards. Next round on Hyacinth he played commander to rack up points and kills as was to be expected from him and only sat on the mortar. Those are the people who really destroy the game, who are not able to have a little fun and accept when they got tricked by someone being creative.

Only thing I can say about such people is what goes around comes around. 

"One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards.  "

this certainly doesn't sound like a very good thing for an admin to do to me 

[Jobabb Jobabbsen]

Is the mod alive ?   Havent played for a while  and now i just see 2 dead servers

[jan_kurator]

Is the mod alive ?   Havent played for a while  and now i just see 2 dead servers

And you think people on this forum talk about what...? Of course it is NOT DEAD but FH2 is using new master server now, that's probably why you can't see any active servers. Download FH2 Launcher update your build and join one of the servers! 

[HPSFroadrunner]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, I will after I post.  Sorry if this sounds like bitching.  I know many of you are very protective of your beloved game, and I mean no disrespect from my comments.  I simply would like to see more people playing, and enjoying this mod for years to come.  My thanks and respect for the devs, admins, and servers that run this game!

I think to make the game have more appeal the devs really need to look at player feedback (especially the 'noobs' and casual players).

One complaint I have heard is that the game is too 'slow-paced'.  I am not sure what was meant by others saying this, but IMO that is one area that could use improvement.  For me, I get really tired of wasting a bunch of play time looking for ammo.  It is very often hard to find, or just non-existent.  I do not see a huge problem with making ammo more readily available in most cases for both infantry and vehicles.  Marking the ammo locations on minimap would be a huge improvement too.  Another aspect that really slows down the game is searching/waiting for certain pick-up kits.   It is hard, or impossible to be a good squad leader, or member if you have to keep spawning at main or certain flag for a certain kit.  I would also like to see the quantity of pick up kits increased, like they were on some of the 'Wacht Am Rhein' maps.  Having several pick-up kits available at each flag really allows you to change your game to suit the battle.  Kit limits really mess up the game too, when your S/L asks you to spawn with A/T kit (for example) and none are available.  I really doubt it's possible, but I would like to see a weapon unlock system or system closer to BF3, where you get to pick your kit from available weapons and tools.  I do not buy the argument that without kit limits everyone will run around with an MG or SMG.  It didn't happen in FH1, and it doesn't happen in FH2 when kits aren't as limited.  Often, I am trying to take a kit, and the only ones available are MP40 and MG42.  I dislike kit-limits in general, as it takes away from a players choice of how to play his game.  Every round is different, and I like the ability to change my game according to how the battle unfolds.   
This brings me to another thing I think could be improved.  FH2 maps compared to FH1 maps are much more linear.  By that, I mean they have a much more set path to follow.  FH1 maps were almost completely open, and you could move around almost any point, and flank from any side.  FH2 maps seem to have a lot more choke-points, walls, mountains etc that prevent you from making a creative attack when you can't defeat an enemy head-on.  Or a lack of cover for infantry to move under.  To me, that was one reason Battlefield 1942, and FH1 were such a huge hit for so long.  They really allowed the player to pick the type of game he wanted to play with almost complete freedom.  The more freedom and choices that are taken away from the player, the more we become like 'bots' or players of some scripted single-player.
As for map choices, it's a big complaint of mine, but I also realize that many people love the maps I hate, and vice-versa.  One thing I believe needs addressing though is 762's map rotation.  Maybe I just have s**t luck and timing, and my gameplay would definitely attest to that, but why do we always get about 3-5 desert maps to 1 non-desert?  I really hate the African campaign maps, but I have finally found something to do on most of them.  I can usually sit through one map I don't like when there's a good one coming next, but it seems like every time I join 762 about 50-75% of the map rotation is desert maps.  Then, when an epic map like St. Vith comes out, it's almost never played, and rarely when there's a full server to really enjoy it.  I would at least like to see a map rotation that alternates between the different theaters to keep the variety.
   

[HPSFroadrunner]

HOWEVER, although there aren't droves of new players blasting through we do need to make sure steps are taken to try to retain them. Really, the best way to do this is through in-game help. Efforts really need to be made to help teach these guys and get them in the swing of things. If you've got a big brother to show you the ropes, you'll get way more out of the game

And THIS!  Sorry, but FH2 players are, for the most part, jack-asses.  When a new player comes with questions, a little help and guidance will make them feel more welcome.  Most veterans drive away new players by being elitist jerks.

[jan_kurator]

Another aspect that really slows down the game is searching/waiting for certain pick-up kits.   It is hard, or impossible to be a good squad leader, or member if you have to keep spawning at main or certain flag for a certain kit.  I would also like to see the quantity of pick up kits increased, like they were on some of the 'Wacht Am Rhein' maps.

It is made on purpose to limit those weapons, I found pickup kits on Wacht Am Rhein maps to be an overkill. There were lots of weapons just lying on the ground around the flags, I didn't like that at all.

Kit limits really mess up the game too, when your S/L asks you to spawn with A/T kit (for example) and none are available.  I really doubt it's possible, but I would like to see a weapon unlock system or system closer to BF3, where you get to pick your kit from available weapons and tools.  I do not buy the argument that without kit limits everyone will run around with an MG or SMG.  It didn't happen in FH1, and it doesn't happen in FH2 when kits aren't as limited.  Often, I am trying to take a kit, and the only ones available are MP40 and MG42.  I dislike kit-limits in general, as it takes away from a players choice of how to play his game.  Every round is different, and I like the ability to change my game according to how the battle unfolds.   

Those weapons are limited due to historical and game balance reasons and most of the limited kits are available in some numbers for fireteams, so if you can't choose any, it means that somebody in your squad already has it. And don't compare it to FH1 because for example, you couldn't spawn on your SL in FH1. Do I have to explain how it could end if you and your squad mates could spawn with unlimitted MG42s on a sneaky SL in the enemy's flag zone? Also, what you suggest is unfortunately impossible or need huge ammount of work as whole system would have to be reworked with use of lots of the engine limitation way arounds to achieve that what in the end may result in some bugs and huge mess in the game files.

One thing I believe needs addressing though is 762's map rotation.  Maybe I just have s**t luck and timing, and my gameplay would definitely attest to that, but why do we always get about 3-5 desert maps to 1 non-desert? I really hate the African campaign maps, but I have finally found something to do on most of them.  I can usually sit through one map I don't like when there's a good one coming next, but it seems like every time I join 762 about 50-75% of the map rotation is desert maps.  Then, when an epic map like St. Vith comes out, it's almost never played, and rarely when there's a full server to really enjoy it.  I would at least like to see a map rotation that alternates between the different theaters to keep the variety.

Map rotation on 762 server is random, so I bet it is your s**t luck only, as timing doesn't matter.

And THIS!  Sorry, but FH2 players are, for the most part, jack-asses.  When a new player comes with questions, a little help and guidance will make them feel more welcome.  Most veterans drive away new players by being elitist jerks.

I always answer new players's questions, even if they're extremely silly, sometimes I even try to help them before they ask anything, when I see that they don't know what's going on on the server, but sometimes, I'm being tired of people who ask questions, don't wait for the answer and bitch about it later. We also have a lot of such people unfortunately. It's easy to blame one side. Don't forget that people are on the server to play, not everybody want to/have time to read the chat and write messages and teach others how to play, for newcomers I can only suggest to watch our trainning videos, which can be found here.

[hitm4k3r]

"One round after that we played St. lo 32 and Angevin was on the arty in the german mainbase so theroreticaly an uncap, but on the frontline. A buddy of mine and me decided to just drive there have some fun and kill him on the arty. I placed an s-mine there as I exactly knew what he was gonna do next. I left the crossed flag and attacked Chateau afterwards.  "

this certainly doesn't sound like a very good thing for an admin to do to me 

Somehow a fair point on the other hand not really the point of my post. Looking back at it, I shouldn't have done it from the admin POV, but on the other hand I take the responsibility for it and can write this story here.

It is not as if I spawnraped him for half an hour on that flag, so it was more a matter of thirty seconds. First time he blasted himself while actually trying to hit our jeep infront of him and after that I just planted the s-mine on the arty and moved on to another flag. But this is not really the issue here. He started complaining, as he stepped on the s-mine. He was just angry because he got tricked and found out that other players can be more creative and clever and because he acknowledged that he was predictable. Some people can't just swallow their pride and have some fun and laugh about such stuff. Yesterday I got tricked by Tutvis two times and I just honored him for it. Do people not write "n1" or "good shoot" these days anymore? Same when people start to camp in a tank on Cobra in the german mainbase and start to complain about base camping Shermans, first thing I will try is to kill that guy and not go the easy way and kick him.

People still seem to think that our rules give them the right to be untouchable while engaging other players and boosting their score. And this is certainly not the case. It is the same as if somebody camps on that flag on St. Lo with a tank and waits for american players to move towards the church. I will kill him as anybody esle will do. Same as ABC lines are not some kind of kevlar where you can hide behind and fire at your enemies. Same as the problem on the first two flags on Keren where each flag gets crossed once capped. Those flags are on the direct frontline, same as the last flag on St. Lo 32.

And I am the last one who will kick you for killing those douchebags. That said, I think I have only a few weak moments while admining, so I think you will grant me some fun while actually playing the game. Sometimes it is better to teach those guys a lesson in the game, rather than just using the !w, !k, or !b commands.

[Musti]

It is made on purpose to limit those weapons, I found pickup kits on Wacht Am Rhein maps to be an overkill. There were lots of weapons just lying on the ground around the flags, I didn't like that at all.

I would argue this point, I think the game needs more pickup kits than we get now, or at least some way to move the current one's further up the front line or something, because sadly, the kits that are in the mainbase are rarely used and it's a bit of a waste to have them there, especially the less "exclusive" ones like the pickup assault kits (with additional pistol or whatever) etc.. Of course having pickup kits spawnpoint "move" could be confusing for the player, so that's less than perfect solution, I don't know.  I hope there is some way to do this right. So you could actually use those "combat" kits like shotguns and STG's instead of them just sitting in the main base for the entire game.

[The Nanny]

It is made on purpose to limit those weapons, I found pickup kits on Wacht Am Rhein maps to be an overkill. There were lots of weapons just lying on the ground around the flags, I didn't like that at all.

I would argue this point, I think the game needs more pickup kits than we get now, or at least some way to move the current one's further up the front line or something, because sadly, the kits that are in the mainbase are rarely used and it's a bit of a waste to have them there, especially the less "exclusive" ones like the pickup assault kits (with additional pistol or whatever) etc.. Of course having pickup kits spawnpoint "move" could be confusing for the player, so that's less than perfect solution, I don't know.  I hope there is some way to do this right. So you could actually use those "combat" kits like shotguns and STG's instead of them just sitting in the main base for the entire game.

In my new guy-ish opinion, the kit numbers seem about right.  I think it encourages teamwork to make best use of them.  For some, the fun in the game is about getting the most out of whatever weapon is available, even if it is off the rack.  The strategy of applying a special kit in the right situation is more satisfying if it works...less satisfying if everyone has a quad-barrelled rail gun.