Author Topic: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks  (Read 6446 times)

Offline hyperanthropos

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Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« on: 18-04-2012, 17:04:48 »
This thread is about certain tanks not getting destroyed by hits that should destroy them in any case. I am not talking about hits from bad angles, but from 90 degrees or similar. Also not on super high ranges, but midranges and even close ranges when talking about the Panzerfäuste.

I am talking about hits from Panzerfäuste or tanks with cannons easily capable of destroying those tanks normaly. For example Panzer 4 H straight on the side armor of a Cromwell or Panzer 4 F2/Tiger on Crusaders. etc.

Vehicles I recognised as being bugged when shooting at them with tanks:
Cruader (only the later version with six 6 pounder)
Cromwell
Afrika Marder
Normandy Marder

Cromwells and Crusaders are bugged as hell since 2.4. they often dont get destroyed by Pak40s and similar cannons. I dont know it probably has something to do with the new angle system, I really like it in general, but with these tanks its horrible.

The Marder are probably coded in a way that shells deal less damage when shooting at the less armored superstructure, because an AT shell could go right through it without dealing much damage, but I think this shouldbe changed, since it would damage the cannon in most cases and at least kill one crew member. And I say this as the one who usually drives the Marder, when getting hit with this things by Shermans or Crusaders/Comwells you get very few damage quite often. (Only less damage so no total hitbug)


Vehicles I recognised as being bugged when shooting them with a Panzerfaust:
M24 Chafee
This thing probably the most annoying to me, Panzerfaust hits dont deal damage against that thing really often. And I mean not when you shot on the sloped front or upper superstructure, but right in the tracks, really often no damage at all.

M4A1 Sherman (The one with the casted hull)
Fighting this thing with a Panzerfaust 30 can be quite frustrating, as we all know the Panzerfaust 30 doesnt kill at the front, which makes no sence as far as I know.
But what really bothers me is that it often doesnt get destroyed when hitting its side armor, often just burnig. I am talking about hits on the regular side armor not on the turret or on extra tracks (This version never has extra tracks). In my opinion killing tanks can be hard enough with a Panzerfaust 30 on maps like Goodwood or Falaise Pocket. Panzerfaust should always kill a Sherman to the front and Panzerschreck too.
And even the Panzerfaust 60 sometimes bounces on the M4A1.


This is based on at approximately 100-200 hours of playing FH 2.4. what I want to say with this is that these are not accidents that happened only once. And yes surely sometimes there are hitbugs and so on, but there are these certain vehicles I recognised for being more bugged than others.
« Last Edit: 18-04-2012, 22:04:55 by hyperanthropos »

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #1 on: 18-04-2012, 21:04:45 »
Everything you said is right and I hope that the devs keep their eyes open for these problems. The Panzerfaust (equal wich version) is kinda luckshot weapon. Sometimes I sneak carefuly behind a tank expecting an easy kill and then I just shot it buring. The excitement of the angle mod and damage system should not be to be unpredictable, but to offer different tactics for different tanks and weapon systems. It is like flanking a Firefly to shot him from the side or rear with a PZIV H from perfect angels and good range. A friend of mine had this bad luck and led him to rage quit. And thb I understand him. It is not a matter of skill in these situations but only luck. And when you have these situations more than one time in a match it is just annoying.
The other things like the OP Crusader (6 Pounder Version) have been mentioned before. The Marder problem can also be  expereinced with the Wespe and the Wirbelwind. You hit the weakest spot and it just bounces off (could be acceptable) but penertating such a weak vehicles and not killing them in the same time is just off.

I hope more people give such feedback, since these are some of the few problems I have with this awesome mod.  ;)

Offline Kev4000

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #2 on: 19-04-2012, 23:04:42 »
A lot of tanks are improved upcoming version. It'll never be perfect unfortunately, which is why HSlan has been running nerfed angled damage mod.
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=17026.0

Most of the hits would likely be due to high angles. What is a high angle? When we first implemented angled damage, we were aware that it could cause some bugs due to messy hitboxes, as the hitboxes weren't made with angled damage in mind. Due to massive amounts of FH2 tanks that exist, we must manually remove small details from their hitboxes tank by tank. We decided to implement it in 2.4 even though nowhere near the majority of tanks had their hitboxes cleaned - in 2.45 a lot more tanks have had their hitboxes cleaned up, including the chaffee.
The marder has a material on its superstructure which is penetrable, so you can kill those behind it without killing the tank. This is removed upcoming patch already. On the Normandy marder, a bit unsure, will doublecheck, also the Crusader and others.

A small detail like a wrench could mean your shot doesn't deal any damage. Its a quite bad bug - the other option is a Cruiser I can destroy a Tiger II frontally by hitting its roof on a small pixel.
The left arrow hitting the side there would not deal any damage, though is a very unlikely hit. The right one would deal full damage. There's maybe a 5% chance not even of hitting such angles as they're barely visible if at all. Other tanks maybe worse though, so thanks and keep up the reports.
« Last Edit: 19-04-2012, 23:04:24 by Kev4000 »

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #3 on: 20-04-2012, 08:04:06 »
Isn't it actually more realistic that these "small details" could cause deflection of the AP shell/HEAT detonation?

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #4 on: 20-04-2012, 12:04:19 »
Isn't it actually more realistic that these "small details" could cause deflection of the AP shell/HEAT detonation?

Yeah I kinda like that, not having the "shoot anywhere in the side to kill enemy" most of games employ.... But some tanks like the Crusader are kinda bugged.
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline ajappat

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #5 on: 20-04-2012, 12:04:41 »
Well the thing is, that those could affect for performance of HEAT round for example. Specially handheld weapons. On the other hand, it doesn't matter where the 88 round hits in real life, it will tear through.

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #6 on: 20-04-2012, 13:04:55 »
Its of course realistic that small objects can sometimes screw you over when you try to panzerfaust someone, but its helluva frustrating and then we get people complaining their fausts dont kill allied tanks with one shot to the side, just because the faust happened to hit on a cosmetic detail such as a piece of rope or a wrench.

Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #7 on: 20-04-2012, 14:04:06 »
In 2.45 a lot more tanks have had their hitboxes cleaned up, including the chaffee.
The marder has a material on its superstructure which is penetrable, so you can kill those behind it without killing the tank. This is removed upcoming patch already. On the Normandy marder, a bit unsure, will doublecheck, also the Crusader and others.

Thank you very much for those answers, it explains many things about vehicles like the Chaffee.
I am really looking forward to those new hitboxes, I think many problems I described should be solved by this. Glad moderators and devs listen to threats like this one.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #8 on: 20-04-2012, 14:04:33 »
Thanks for the reply Kev. I am quiet excited how this plays out in 2.45.

What also came to my mind is the fact, that you can deal damage on the open hatch of the PZ III on the NA maps. I experienced this several times. An enemy PZ  III was hiding behind a dune, but the hatch was the only thing visible. So I shot at it and after some hits I killed the tank. Feels quiet strange to my mind. Just for the case you haven't changed it already  ;)

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #9 on: 20-04-2012, 14:04:48 »
Thanks for the reply Kev. I am quiet excited how this plays out in 2.45.

What also came to my mind is the fact, that you can deal damage on the open hatch of the PZ III on the NA maps. I experienced this several times. An enemy PZ  III was hiding behind a dune, but the hatch was the only thing visible. So I shot at it and after some hits I killed the tank. Feels quiet strange to my mind. Just for the case you haven't changed it already  ;)

How is that strange? Isn't that the place where the commander would usually be? Besides it's intended to be the weakspot for AT rifles to shoot at.(The cupola I mean, not the doors of the hatch).
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #10 on: 20-04-2012, 17:04:14 »
Thanks for the reply Kev. I am quiet excited how this plays out in 2.45.

What also came to my mind is the fact, that you can deal damage on the open hatch of the PZ III on the NA maps. I experienced this several times. An enemy PZ  III was hiding behind a dune, but the hatch was the only thing visible. So I shot at it and after some hits I killed the tank. Feels quiet strange to my mind. Just for the case you haven't changed it already  ;)

How is that strange? Isn't that the place where the commander would usually be? Besides it's intended to be the weakspot for AT rifles to shoot at.(The cupola I mean, not the doors of the hatch).

I mean the doors of the hatch. I explained it a bit wrong, sry

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #11 on: 20-04-2012, 17:04:32 »
Though I have to wonder why do we even have that awesome hatch opening animation when you jump into the Pz III... Was that added with a purpose in mind, or just as eye-candy?
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #12 on: 20-04-2012, 21:04:16 »
Ofcourse It looks good, but I don't see the point about dealing valuable damage when hiting the door of the hatch. It is like completely destroying a car in a racing  game, when the mirrors are broken  ;D It makes no sense at all

Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #13 on: 21-04-2012, 11:04:08 »
True I also recognised this. Is it possilbe to change the opening animation so that it doesnt open when the tank spawns (thats when open now right?), but when someone actually uses place 3 (the one looking out of the cuppola). That would make a lot more sence, since I alsways found it strange when a tank is in the mid of the battle with open hatches.

Offline Easy Eight

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Re: Bugged and unbalanced hits on tanks
« Reply #14 on: 23-04-2012, 18:04:47 »
A lot of tanks are improved upcoming version. It'll never be perfect unfortunately, which is why HSlan has been running nerfed angled damage mod.
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=17026.0

Most of the hits would likely be due to high angles. What is a high angle? When we first implemented angled damage, we were aware that it could cause some bugs due to messy hitboxes, as the hitboxes weren't made with angled damage in mind. Due to massive amounts of FH2 tanks that exist, we must manually remove small details from their hitboxes tank by tank. We decided to implement it in 2.4 even though nowhere near the majority of tanks had their hitboxes cleaned - in 2.45 a lot more tanks have had their hitboxes cleaned up, including the chaffee.
The marder has a material on its superstructure which is penetrable, so you can kill those behind it without killing the tank. This is removed upcoming patch already. On the Normandy marder, a bit unsure, will doublecheck, also the Crusader and others.

A small detail like a wrench could mean your shot doesn't deal any damage. Its a quite bad bug - the other option is a Cruiser I can destroy a Tiger II frontally by hitting its roof on a small pixel.
The left arrow hitting the side there would not deal any damage, though is a very unlikely hit. The right one would deal full damage. There's maybe a 5% chance not even of hitting such angles as they're barely visible if at all. Other tanks maybe worse though, so thanks and keep up the reports.
Very interesting read, so how do you fix these parts if you do (@pic)? I think no one would notice it if you just make that part plane.