About the M4A3

[Natty]

random spawning is not possible, and not needed. A flag spawns a tank and there is no need for that tank to sometimes be another tank. If the mapper wanted the other tank to spawn, he would place that. 

[Mayhemic.MAD]

random spawning is not possible, and not needed. A flag spawns a tank and there is no need for that tank to sometimes be another tank. If the mapper wanted the other tank to spawn, he would place that. 

Sorry I can´t follow you here. Randomness in the sense of a human perceiving it as random is quite possible and already used in this mod like Ts4EVER explained.
What if the mapper wanted no fixed vehicle positions ? How can you speak for all mappers that they don´t want this?
These are exactly the things I would try to realize.
Like it is now it gets boring to see always exactly the same routes players take at round start. Everyone is running for the position he knows the best vehicles to spawn instead of looking around a bit first to check out the situation.
I mean this is not a E-Sports game like CS its important to always start with the same situation, but rather it already is and should be even more a new experience each time you play it because the huge amount of vehicles and large maps and players always lead to new situations. Only the round start is always the same and I think a bit of "randomness" could help to make each round even more unique.

[sn00x]

we are not talking about random spawn positions?

[azreal]

Ok let me explain what we have and don't have.

Situation #1: There are two vehicle spawn points. Python code will dictate whether tank A spawns at position A or B. This is entirely possible and used in the mod.

Situation #2: Python code dictates whether tank A or tank B should spawn at only one position. This isn't possible to date.

[Natty]

Everyone is running for the position he knows the best vehicles to spawn instead of looking around a bit first to check out the situation.
I mean this is not a E-Sports game like CS its important to always start with the same situation, but rather it already is and should be even more a new experience each time you play it (??) because the huge amount of vehicles and large maps and players always lead to new situations. Only the round start is always the same and I think a bit of "randomness" could help to make each round even more unique.

"look around a bit"?   no.. I dont understand the comparison to "e-sports" games either. Do you really think that players want to walk around on the map and just "hang out"?... Battlefield is all about knowing where to spawn, with what kit and when. Just having randomly spawning assets makes no sense at all.
If I spawn in the mainbase in a map, I do it because I want a certain vehicle there, if I want an armoured car but I get there and there is a truck, I would think the mapper was a moron.

64 players in these maps always create new situations, this is a static game, the dynamics come from player behaviour, not faked and badly implemented simulations of "reality".

[Mayhemic.MAD]

Do you really think that players want to walk around on the map and just "hang out"?...

Where did I say something like that ?

Battlefield is all about knowing where to spawn, with what kit and when.

..and it always depends on whats happening around you on the battlefield. Sure you know the basic routes the enemy must take but still you always have to adapt to the current situation. So nothing static there.
That´s just what I ment by my E-sports comparison. It´s actually the people who play E-Sports who do not want anything that changes because each and every round must be exact the same (and with mirrored balance).

If I spawn in the mainbase in a map, I do it because I want a certain vehicle there, if I want an armoured car but I get there and there is a truck, I would think the mapper was a moron.

I was merely suggesting to mix the spawn locations of these vehicles, not to exchange vehicles with other ones.
All you had to do eg. would be too look around to find out on which of the 10 spawn locations in main your APC spawns.

64 players in these maps always create new situations, this is a static game, the dynamics come from player behaviour, not faked and badly implemented simulations of "reality".

I don´t know what you mean by static game when you say yourself that the players always create new situations and there is dynamic coming from players (and from the number of vehicles and multiple routes you an take). I think the same and that´s why I wrote "new experience everytime you play it"..

And thanks to azreal for the clarification. I thought if one is possible the other should be too.

[Slayer]

This has been known of for years now guys

Well, I was sure about no random kit spawning, but I wasn't so sure about vehicles. Besides, I'm not learnng every game asset by heart, I have better stuff to do

All you had to do eg. would be too look around to find out on which of the 10 spawn locations in main your APC spawns.

Don't you think this would be incredibly annoying? Wasting time for such trivia while your army is out in the field needing that APC badly?

[Mayhemic.MAD]

Don't you think this would be incredibly annoying? Wasting time for such trivia while your army is out in the field needing that APC badly?

That´s what the game is all about when a map is running. Adapting to changing situations.
You realize there is some need somewhere for attack or defense, so you check the situation and then figure out the best way as a tradeof between the time you have, to still be of any help, and the risk you think you can take.
At least for me, in most such situations I am far away from main base and you can´t count on the APC being at the spawn when you need it anyway. So I take whatever is closest (empty enemy jeep could be closer) or I walk if nothing is near.

Well, what I want to say is that during the whole duration of a map you can only deploy such fixed tactics in the first  spawn wave. Then you need to be flexible anyway.

That´s just the way I see it and it´s something I would not mind if it changed. I always found games with "random" generated content to be a cool thing, like the Dungeons in Diablo I and II.

[Natty]

random generated RPG levels can not be compared to a multiplayer FPS games levels.

What does it add to the game, you running around the mainbase playing "find the tank"?
Players dont want to hop in the nearest vehicle, they want to get the vehicle they get at the flag they clicked on to spawn at. A bunch of dudes running around searching for vehicles would just make it more annoying to get in to the real game, which is the action on the battlefield.

What is next, being forced to drink water, or freeze to death?

[MaJ.P.Bouras]

Being in the desert you are suddedly feeling weird and your vision starts to get blurry...You take out your water can drink once and you are back on your feet XD

Or

Normandy,Before going to battle eating a meal.

[HappyFunBall]

Grinding anti-tank levels!

[azreal]

Natty is right. If you apply this concept to everything, it not only makes more work for the mapper, but is just annoying. He's right in that, when I spawn at the airfield, I wanna know exactly where the plane is each time.

However...you'll get better results when you apply the random spawning to static guns. A pak40 that spawns in a different location between 5 possible spots keeps attacks/defense extremely dynamic and can be fun.

[Natty]

Yes, or mobile guns, which is even better since then the players can move them to a position he likes.

[Mayhemic.MAD]

Players dont want to hop in the nearest vehicle, they want to get the vehicle they get at the flag they clicked on to spawn at. A bunch of dudes running around searching for vehicles would just make it more annoying to get in to the real game, which is the action on the battlefield.

Ok, we seem to have a different understanding about what people want when they play FH2. Aren´t you involved in BF:Heroes development ? This sounds more like what I would expect from those players. Maybe you are mixing things up a bit.

Natty is right. If you apply this concept to everything, it not only makes more work for the mapper, but is just annoying. He's right in that, when I spawn at the airfield, I wanna know exactly where the plane is each time.

However...you'll get better results when you apply the random spawning to static guns. A pak40 that spawns in a different location between 5 possible spots keeps attacks/defense extremely dynamic and can be fun.

Of course I didn´t mean to realize this for everything. the planes need to stay at airport of course and not appear on a spot intended for a jeep.
What I tried to achieve was to make the Devs move FH2 more and more away from the games we had the last years by experimenting more with such things.
The random positions for defensive weapons are something that just adds to the game and increases the replay value. You surely don´t want to remove that because people might complain that they are running around and playing "search the MG" because its not where he used it last time.
The same for the mobile guns, I bet they won´t be changed to static ones because a few might not like the randomness ? I mean seeing that players like them, why not expand this concept ?

Somehow I think we are on the same level with this, it´s just that Natty seems to like exaggerating and bashing suggestions sometimes

[djinn]

Ooh, I'd lo-ove dynamic spawning At guns!