Author Topic: Picture of the Day (Other eras)  (Read 905544 times)

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1530 on: 29-07-2010, 22:07:04 »
And its predecessor, the Challenger 1 scored a kill on a iraqi tank at 6.5km range. The longest shot ever.

Challenger 2  leopard 2>Abrams any day
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Offline Chadoi

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1531 on: 29-07-2010, 23:07:41 »
And its predecessor, the Challenger 1 scored a kill on a iraqi tank at 6.5km range. The longest shot ever.

Challenger 2  leopard 2>Abrams any day

I think you're all simplifying things too much. Pretty much all Western MBT's have very similar levels of protection, mobility and firepower. I think the defining factors are crew training and experience. As good as the Leopard 2 is I can't think of any tank on tank combat (as far as I know of) in which it's crews have took place in so I would have to consider the Abrams and Challenger 2 to be more formidable opponents, due to their crews. Of course this is all pure conjecture on my part....

Offline [WDW]Megaraptor

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1532 on: 29-07-2010, 23:07:50 »
There's one thing to always remember about this talk of which tank is better:

"The man is the steel. The tank is just metal."--IDF tanker's saying.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1533 on: 29-07-2010, 23:07:43 »
And its predecessor, the Challenger 1 scored a kill on a iraqi tank at 6.5km range. The longest shot ever.

Challenger 2  leopard 2>Abrams any day

I think you're all simplifying things too much. Pretty much all Western MBT's have very similar levels of protection, mobility and firepower. I think the defining factors are crew training and experience. As good as the Leopard 2 is I can't think of any tank on tank combat (as far as I know of) in which it's crews have took place in so I would have to consider the Abrams and Challenger 2 to be more formidable opponents, due to their crews. Of course this is all pure conjecture on my part....
Their is a huge diffrence. European tanks use Diesel engines wich are reliable, fuel efficient, multi-fuel and have very good performance

The Abrams has a gas turbine engine wich consumes 2-3 times more then a diesel engine, has only slightly better acceleration, uses jet fuel wich is extremely flammable, is an unreliable engine, infantery cannot hide behind the abrams because of the exhaust and they arent made anymore but refurbished

I dont really know much about modern tanks, but i do understand the engine problems
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Offline Kading

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1534 on: 30-07-2010, 02:07:37 »
There's one thing to always remember about this talk of which tank is better:

"The man is the steel. The tank is just metal."--IDF tanker's saying.


I disagree strongly. During the first invasion of Iraq, American, British, even French tanks completely outclassed their Iraqi counterparts, who lacked night vision, reliable auto-loaders, effective fire control, gyro stabilized guns, and countless other problems. No matter how good the crews were trained, they still had no chance. That is why they were butchered.


The IDF is a first rate-well funded and equipped military. They have yet to face one on a par with them in recent history, So it stands to reason they are cocky.
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Offline [WDW]Megaraptor

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1535 on: 30-07-2010, 03:07:05 »
The IDF is a first rate-well funded and equipped military. They have yet to face one on a par with them in recent history, So it stands to reason they are cocky.

Don't forget, the IDF defeated Arab armies in 1967 and 1973 when those Arab armies had up-to-date Soviet bloc tanks and the IDF was using a hodgepodge of Centurions, AMX-13s, M48s and up-gunned Shermans. The M60 was the only modern tank in the Israeli arsenal in those wars. Also by 1973 the Syrian and Egyptians had a clear advantage in night vision (the Israelis didn't have it, the Syrians did) and ATGMs.

It wasn't until Lebanon in 1982 that Israeli tanks were clearly superior to their opposition.

Offline Kading

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1536 on: 30-07-2010, 04:07:43 »
Don't forget, the IDF defeated Arab armies in 1967 and 1973 when those Arab armies had up-to-date Soviet bloc tanks and the IDF was using a hodgepodge of Centurions, AMX-13s, M48s and up-gunned Shermans. The M60 was the only modern tank in the Israeli arsenal in those wars. Also by 1973 the Syrian and Egyptians had a clear advantage in night vision (the Israelis didn't have it, the Syrians did) and ATGMs.

It wasn't until Lebanon in 1982 that Israeli tanks were clearly superior to their opposition.



Conflicts that took place 40 years ago are recent history now? Have you seen the advances in military tech since then?
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Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1537 on: 30-07-2010, 04:07:57 »
There's one thing to always remember about this talk of which tank is better:

"The man is the steel. The tank is just metal."--IDF tanker's saying.


 even French tanks
I love the natural anti-French prejudice that literally everyone shows.

Offline [WDW]Megaraptor

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1538 on: 30-07-2010, 05:07:55 »
Conflicts that took place 40 years ago are recent history now? Have you seen the advances in military tech since then?

My point was that crew training is important and can overcome technical inferiority. You argued that that's not the case, and training can't overcome technical inferiority.

Your example was Desert Storm which involved highly trained troops in state of the art tanks versus poorly trained troops in obsolete tanks. Plus, it was fought in the open, flat desert where technical differences are magnified.

My counter example was to point to a situation where better trained troops with inferior tanks defeated a lesser-trained force with better equipment, and why the IDF has an institutional memory of this.

Offline Kading

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1539 on: 30-07-2010, 07:07:51 »
Agreed on training, I'm sorry. That was rude of me not to clarify.


However, training only gets you so far. At some point it doesn't matter how good your soldiers are if they are completely outclassed. You take the best brigade of any army of 1900 with the best general of 1900, pit it against say...Idano, an armored regiment of a mid-WW2 armored regiment with someone who is at least worth the bird on his collar. You will see the former slaughtered.


My point was it didn't matter how good or bad the Iraqi troops were, they never stood a chance due to their inability to stay alive on a modern battlefield.


So my country is even more guilty of this, as the United States hasn't fought a pitched battle against a comparable foe in quite some time. Not to say that it is a bad thing that we aren't picking fights with the big kids anymore.




@ CPS, only joking buddy. Here, a sexy Leclerc kickin up a rooster tail.


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Offline [WDW]Megaraptor

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1540 on: 30-07-2010, 14:07:28 »
Well generally in war, if you find yourself in a pitched fight versus a comparable foe, you did something wrong.



Caption says this is a T-72 being driven by coalition forces. Can't tell if this is an Iraqi T-72 captured intact or a T-72 used by Syrian troops.

Offline Tolga<3

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1541 on: 30-07-2010, 14:07:09 »
^^ Its probably Iraq, at least by the looks of the picture.

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Offline Battlefieldfan45 (CroPanzer)

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1542 on: 30-07-2010, 15:07:30 »
A well placed shell could do some damage in that moment ;D

 
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Offline [WDW]Megaraptor

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1543 on: 30-07-2010, 15:07:45 »
A well placed shell could do some damage in that moment ;D

Yeah good luck timing that shot.

In the name of more pics and less talk, before the mods get upset:



Iraqi T-55 preserved as a memorial in the Al-Qurain district of Kuwait City.

At this site, on Feb. 24, 1991, 19 members of the Kuwaiti resistance fought a 10 hour battle with a vastly superior Iraqi force before being overwhelmed. 12 of them were killed and 7 severely wounded.

This is the building they holed up in:


Offline Captain Pyjama Shark

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Re: Picture of the Day (Other eras)
« Reply #1544 on: 30-07-2010, 19:07:14 »
Yugoslavian T-55's and soldiers.