Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Off-Topic => Gaming => Topic started by: Ts4EVER on 30-12-2013, 05:12:45
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Since many people seem to be quite interested in playing this game, I will do a quick tutorial to cover some basics. Note that this will be mostly tactical stuff, I think you are all competent enough to figure out the controls without me...
As an example I will use the first non-tutorial scenario that ships with the game, called "organized Chaos". The Germans assault a Polish trench position here. I will play as the Germans.
When you start the scenario, a pre-planned mortar barrage will hit the Polish trenches. After this is done, first take a look at the map.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img716/2650/c71d.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/c71d.png/)
As you can see, it is a pretty basic scenario. I have highlighted two areas of interest: One is the Polish trench system, situated on a small hill, the second is another hill in your deployment area.
Next look at your army.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img834/6052/03xz.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/03xz.png/)
It consists of the following units:
The commander (A0)
1 Infanterie Kompanie, which is organized as follows:
2 Headquarter squads and a Lafette team (B0, B1, B3), one of which is a heavy weapons section with 5cm mortars. This hq commands three platoons (C0-3, D0-3, E0-3), each consisting of four infantry sections. C Platoon has one pioneer team instead of one inf section.
Next we have F-Platoon and G-Platoon, which are scouts. These are harder for the enemy to detect and carry machine pistols, so sneak them up before your units. G-Platoon has another Lafette.
The last unit are 8cm medium mortars for indirect fire.
Next up: The plan
This scenario has one simple challenge: How do you get your guys into the trenches without them dying? The answer is suppression. For one thing, you need to keep the mortars firing at the trenches. You have no forward observer, so let your command unit spot for artillery. For now he cannot see the position. During the battle you should move him up to a position from where he can observe the Polish trenches, but for now that is not that important. Select him, press "B" and you get the artillery menu.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img200/9938/usx.png)
You can see the two mortar sections in this menu. If they were not there, it would mean your selected spotter is not in contact. That happens sometimes, especially when there are no radios in one of the units involved. You can see a number besides the mortars (2.2) This means it takes two turns to call in the artillery IF you select a completely new spot. However, we will not do this. For one thing, you have this golden spot with the "1" in it. This is a pre registered spot for artillery. In campaign battles you can place these before the game starts. If you target this spot, artillery will always only take 1 round to arrive. However, it works even faster. As you can see, I selected one of the mortars and one hex is highlighted in red. This is the hex the mortar bombarded in the pre planned artillery barrage. We will just tell the mortars to resume this barrage by clicking on the "fire" button without doing anything else.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/4619/iz7n.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/iz7n.png/)
It will look like this. In your case, the hexes might be at slightly different positions, since mortar fire drifts randomly. The number is now 0.1, which means the bombardment goes on next round without delay. During the battle, regularly check on the mortars to resume the bombardment (every two turns, usually). If you notice that one of the mortars drifted of target, use the blue cross button to re adjust its fire. If you want, you can also switch to smoke ammo.
With the mortars set to fire, we will look at the force again. Generally speaking you should have a movement element and a fire element. In this scenario you already have two heavy mg teams on top of the small hill. Move them into a position from where they can see the trenches. Check their cones of fire by right clicking in the direction of the trenches after moving.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img546/3157/1w1d.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/1w1d.png/)
The first one is already in a nice position here, the second one will need to move up more. After the are in position, do NOT move them anymore, just keep firing at observed targets. The majority of the infantry company will serve as movement element. Just move them straight at the trenches until contact is made. Use the hq elements as fire support by keeping them static. There won't be any combat in the first round.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/169/c492.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/c492.png/)
This was the situation for me in round 3, after the Poles opened fire. If their units do not show up at once, click on some of your units and right click at their general suspected position, after a while they should show up. What we see is an HMG and an infantry squad. Now use your fire element to suppress these by firing at them. You should be able to inflict some casualties to the inf squads, since Poles tend to use 20 man squads. This bunches up a lot of people in one hex. Once all units you see are "retreating", pause the fire and move up more squads of you movement element. If these draw fire from more units, identify them and shoot at them with your fire element. If not, and you have moved all possible units forward, go back to the fire element and expend the rest of their shots, then end the turn. Do not shoot with elements of the advancing infantry for now, that way they have shots left to react to fire in the Polish turn.
Some general advise on suppressing: Always have a unit shoot at the same enemy unit. The more they shoot at the same unit, the more accurate they become. On the flipside, say you shoot with one of your mgs and the Poles return fire in your round, then first select the other MG and shoot with it. Then the Poles are forced to return fire at IT. Just shoot one mg, then the other one, then the first one again etc until all shots for that round are expended. This way you minimize the Polish hit chances while maximizing your own. PRO Tip: Instead of always clicking on the same target, click on it once, then press "F" to repeat the same order.
In my case the Poles scored a hit on one of my mgs and forced them to retreat. I failed to rally them. In a case like this it might be good to stop the advance of one of your infantry platoons and use them as another fire base. Only use static units as a firing element unless you are in close combat! The overall goal is to have all visible Polish units who are able to fire on you advancing troops in a "retreating" or "routed" stance.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img834/83/98x6.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/98x6.png/)
If all goes well you should be able to move your scout troops within one hex of the suppressed Poles by turn 5. Once you are there, open up with your machine pistols at close range! Normally you would not use scouts as combat troops like this, but in this case it is justified. By now you also come into the kind of ranges where you can fire the squads of your movement elements, but ONLY AFTER moving. The main job is still getting into close range! However, at this point more suppression is vital, since the Polish rifles also get more accurate at closer ranges. Remember to shift your mortars away from your scout teams a bit.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img21/2306/f0m8.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/f0m8.png/)
Once you get into this kind of close combat with the Poles suppressed, the jig is up. Many will start fleeing to the rear. Keep moving your troop close and keep the pressure up. Don't be squeamish, shoot at fleeing units to keep them from rallying. You need to keep the momentum up!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img198/2797/mxp0.png)
At this point I found some mines in the north. You can clear these by having an infantry unit idle in the same hex. If you move through the hex, there is a chance you receive casualties. Infantry takes a long time to clear mines. Pioneers are faster and can clear the minefields from an adjacent hex, so they don't need to enter them and there is no risk of receiving casualties. Since the scenario here is a quick one, I would not bother with clearing them, just find a way around or move units through them and get the occasional casualty.
By now you should have figured out how this works. Keep the Poles suppressed and move your guys into the trenches. Capture the victory locations. Remember: The only way to reliably kill people with infantry is over ranges of between 3 and 0 hexes. If the Poles are unsuppressed while you move into that range, you are toast!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img835/1880/bipd.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/bipd.png/)
Overrunning the trenches. Stop your mortars at this point!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img844/3181/14rm.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/14rm.png/)
My final result. Can you do better? ;)
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I expected a tutorial to pop up soon... although I was hoping for controls.
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There is some stuff in there about artillery controls, movement and stuff you will have to figure out yourself (there also is a good handbook in the files)
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These two threads better off at gaming, yes?
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Nicely done!
I expected a tutorial to pop up soon... although I was hoping for controls.
hotkeys (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?s=1450606e1f09de5dde6e03145a53f4f5&t=41860)
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Can you capture enemy vehicles/tanks/guns? And how do you get build points for mines and trenches?
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Can you capture enemy vehicles/tanks/guns? And how do you get build points for mines and trenches?
When you are spending your Support points before a battle, you can buy captured/Allied enemy vehicles, but these will not be added to your core force. Some OOBs have captured equipment though: The German one has French and Russian tanks, artillery, some infantry will have captured weapons, etc. The Russian OOB has captured Panzer I, II, III, and so on. Those units can be bought for your core forces.
Build points are for Defense and Delay maps only, on those battles you will see a "Build Mines/DT/Trenches" button when you are spending support points. Fougasse, demo charges and booby traps can be bought for any battle though.
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I just ran through that scenario, lost 45 men but won a decisive victory x3
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BTW I am using these realism settings (basically completely standard).
(http://imageshack.us/a/img27/708/8qrd.png)
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Are there any other scenarios that are small and good for novices to start learning the ropes?
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Hmm not of the top of my head. If you want I could make you a nice small company sized scenario, just tell me a date and two opponent nations.
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Whats the bonus of having forward observers?
In your tutorial you write like the arty doesnt stop firing, but mine stops after two turns. What do i do wrong?
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Whats the bonus of having forward observers?
In your tutorial you write like the arty doesnt stop firing, but mine stops after two turns. What do i do wrong?
Just do the same thing again, repeat the firing order. You can repeat the same firing order as long as you have ammunition.
The bonus of a forward observer is faster response times for artillery and having a dedicated unit just spotting for artillery while hidden and not fighting.
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So as long as I only target the same hex, it will be a constant barrage, but Its the redirecting that takes time?
Are there any mods that implements height numbers on hexes so i dont need to hoover over each hex? And the number of men would have also been nice to see.
I guess FO have a good camo value and can hide easily?
Unit data is also a bit confusing. I dont understand penetration values. They are writtten like "x : y" for instance 1:4.
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About the artillery:
If you just repeat the same hex as before, there is no delay. You can also use the blue cross button to shift your fire over 2 hexes without there being a delay (if you shift more, there will be a round of delay, unless the spotter can see the area).
If you designate a new target you get the full delay.
And yes, FOs are harder to spot, just like scout teams, snipers and small tank hunter teams.
x : y
x is penetration for HE, y for AP
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Hmm not of the top of my head. If you want I could make you a nice small company sized scenario, just tell me a date and two opponent nations.
That would be awesome :o Something early war would be nice, like Ger versus Britain, maybe a small one with light tank/armoured car combat, some infantry, and some at guns/infantry guns. Just something easy that I can learn slowly, rather than being tossed into massive meat grinders :P
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OK then. Try this. To play it, just unpack the zip into the Scenario folder in the install of the game. You will find the scenario ingame at slot 456 (that way no stock scenarios are overwritten).
It is similar in many ways to the first scenario, but with these added elements:
Light armor
Truck and halftrack borne infantry
Forward Observer
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So as long as I only target the same hex, it will be a constant barrage, but Its the redirecting that takes time?
Are there any mods that implements height numbers on hexes so i dont need to hoover over each hex? And the number of men would have also been nice to see.
I guess FO have a good camo value and can hide easily?
Unit data is also a bit confusing. I dont understand penetration values. They are writtten like "x : y" for instance 1:4.
Select a unit and hit space bar and you can see information about that unit. One important value is Size: larger number = bigger and easier to be spotted by the enemy.
So for example, my conscripts division: one rifle section has 13 men, and the size is 2. But the PTRD anti-tank rifle team (of just 2 men) has a size of 0, meaning it's harder to spot for enemy. A KV-II tank has a size of 6, even blind Germans can't miss it. FO teams have a size of 0, meaning they are very hard to spot.
Here are some other tips, looking at this picture of Musti's T-34/57:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img560/8003/pybk.png)
Anything in lime green writing can be rewritten. That's why I can add Musti's name instead of some default Russian name like Yashin. You can also rename vehicles and infantry, so I could rename T-34/57 M1941 to something else if I wanted to, like T-34-57 or T-34 ZiS-4 or Lucy or whatever. This can be useful but it's not really something you need to worry about if you don't want to. I generally don't bother, because if the unit you rename is destroyed, when you fix or change it, it goes back to the default name, and you would be forever renaming things after each battle. But it's useful for scenario designers like TS4Ever.
You can click on a weapon (in yellow) and disable it if you want to, and there are times you will. One technique is to disable weapons for scout teams, snipers, AOP teams so they do not fire on their own and bring attention to themselves, although this does leave them defenseless if you aren't careful. Personally I find it smarter to simply set their range to 1 or 2 hexes, so they only fire if the enemy is close by.
Speed 18:0 - the number on the left means the amount of hexes a unit can move in one turn over land. The number on the right is number of hexes it can move in water (if 0, it cannot drive in water deeper than -1). Cavalry and amphib tanks will have numbers there as will some others, it's a light blue color on the right for those units.
Men: # of soldiers in the unit or crew
Radio: 1 means the unit has a radio, 0 means it doesn't
Most of those values are self-explanatory. Carry capacity 13 means it can carry 13 men and so on.
If you hit Information you get this:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img833/3847/13h5.png)
ACC is Accuracy, the higher the number the better. 18 is great, 4 is not.
KILL is the maximum number of enemy soldiers one shell can kill in a single shot. 3 is very bad, but the 152mm M-10T on the KV-II has a value of 25, very great!
PEN has two numbers: on the left is HE, on the right is AP. So for this T-34 a HE shell will sometimes go through up to 2 thickness armor, and AP will go through 11 on point-blank range.
HEAT and APCR numbers mean the amount of armor those shells will go through.
The gun has 50 hexes of range, and the warhead size is 3. The only other important number on this page is Survivability. A higher number is best and means it's more likely your crew can bail and live.
For this tank it's 3, not great but not terrible. On our Valentine II tanks, it's 4, which is better. OT-133 flame tank has a survivability of 2, which is bad. But remember, it's only a reference. A lot depends on what kind of weapon takes out your tank, and strange things happen: I've seen Panzer IIs get nailed with 76.2mm shells and all crew members bail out and live, and I've seen a tank like the KV-1 which has great survivability get hit with 50mm APCR rounds and lose the whole crew.
One note on armor values: you can roughly equate the armor thickness if you just add a 0 to the end of the number. If your tank has a front hull armor value of 8, it's for all intents and purposes 80mm, even if in real life it might have been 78mm or 82mm or whatever.
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OK then. Try this. To play it, just unpack the zip into the Scenario folder in the install of the game. You will find the scenario ingame at slot 456 (that way no stock scenarios are overwritten).
It is similar in many ways to the first scenario, but with these added elements:
Light armor
Truck and halftrack borne infantry
Forward Observer
That was fast, thank you! I'll try it once I'm back from some errands :D
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Is there anyway to surrender or call for a truce? I've lost a third of my men assaulting enemy positions and I don't really feel like pushing on anymore. Do I just have to wait it out?
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You can't surrender on command. Occasionally corned troops (yours or the AI's) will surrender and it can be quite epic. It depends on morale, and some forces are naturally less likely to surrender (Finland is notoriously hard to get a surrender from, the Japanese almost impossible, the Italians easier, etc.).
Any force can surrender to any other force too, sometimes you will get a tank surrendering to your rifle section :D.
If you want to break off an attack, you can pop smoke. Most but not all infantry can do this: just hit X and select the hex to between you and the enemy.
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BTW, does the AI still "cheat" when airstrikes? The few years back when I last dared to install this, the AI would pick randomly one of your vehicles etc. without regards to LOS, placement on map, etc. and no matter where you moved it or how you covered it, the airstrike next turn would hit it no matter what (possibly damaging or destroying it). Saved-loaded-saved a few times, tried running away, popping smoke, hiding between buildings, in forest, etc. but this stubbornly remained the case: if the AI decided your tank (which he might not have even seen yet) had to die, the airplane would find it no matter what and often even changed entry direction to allow better aiming.
Also, the hit percentages were also weighted to favour AI so that even at 30% you would miss nine times out of ten, but even at 5% AI would hit more often than not. Which probably was kinda balance in that the AI liked to play passive-aggressive and rarely fired first, mostly using only reaction fire.
And yes, I still spent years and years and hundreds if not thousands of hours playing the SP series. Which is why I haven't dared to install it on my "new" (2010) comp at all.
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BTW, does the AI still "cheat" when airstrikes? The few years back when I last dared to install this, the AI would pick randomly one of your vehicles etc. without regards to LOS, placement on map, etc. and no matter where you moved it or how you covered it, the airstrike next turn would hit it no matter what (possibly damaging or destroying it). Saved-loaded-saved a few times, tried running away, popping smoke, hiding between buildings, in forest, etc. but this stubbornly remained the case: if the AI decided your tank (which he might not have even seen yet) had to die, the airplane would find it no matter what and often even changed entry direction to allow better aiming.
Also, the hit percentages were also weighted to favour AI so that even at 30% you would miss nine times out of ten, but even at 5% AI would hit more often than not. Which probably was kinda balance in that the AI liked to play passive-aggressive and rarely fired first, mostly using only reaction fire.
And yes, I still spent years and years and hundreds if not thousands of hours playing the SP series. Which is why I haven't dared to install it on my "new" (2010) comp at all.
I dunno how recently these options have been here, but these are my settings:
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7188/hqyb.png)
Everyone who plays needs to mess around with them a bit to find something they feel is realistic. For instance I have my arty power set to 50% more powerful because at default it takes about 100 mortar shells to cause one casualty but I know some other people have lowered it from default and they're happy with it.
I don't know whether plane strikes are worse now than they used to be but they are a little too accurate imo. I call this FH2 syndrome. TS4ever will know more about this than I do. But definitely, from time to time it doesn't matter whether your tank is concealed without a hope in hell of spotting it from the air, some Stuka or IL-2 will come out of nowhere and blast it while the flak battery you bought consistently has 3% chances of hitting it ::).
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That feeling of taking out a british tank with a 88 from 3700 meters.
Can you explain me the details of firing while the ai is moving? If i use all my shots while Its my turn, will i fire less when Its the ai's turn? Will my tank prioritize shooting at the target i selected or shoot at anything that moves?
Can i see the range of my unit visualized on the hex grid?
I can only sometimes buy planes. why?
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I dunno how recently these options have been here, but these are my settings:
The settings look just as I remember them - I used to have defaults (100% or XXXX) otherwise but have arty cranked up to 200%. Adjusting the settings didn't affect the lopsided hit ratio or AI's reluctance to use other than reaction fire though, but remember that I'm still talking of a much older version.
Can you explain me the details of firing while the ai is moving? If i use all my shots while Its my turn, will i fire less when Its the ai's turn? Will my tank prioritize shooting at the target i selected or shoot at anything that moves?
Yes, you will get less reaction shots if you used all your shots on your own turn. Movement also reduces the amount of reaction fire.
I don't remember about target priority, however you can also set an unit's maximum firing range smaller than it actually is, so that scout/FO units will not reveal themselves by shooting, or you can make ambushes by only letting infantry fire/assault vehicles until enemy is at range 1 or tanks to fire only at range small enough to actually penetrate, etc.
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I know what you mean, there does seem to be some scripting sadly. It's like in soccer games where you're up 2-0 with 10 mins left and all of a sudden everything your players do is retarded while all the COM's actions are suddenly perfect. There's a bit of fuckery like that in WinSPWW2 I'm sure. Plane strikes are one, also arty falling on your tanks when loaded with infantry. The last campaign I did I had 8 straight battles where no arty fell on my T-34/85 company, and then I bought a desant company and with them loaded up I'm getting hit with 150mm, 105 and 75mm fire on the fourth turn ::)
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fucking snipers are too powerful. They are too resilient! Shoots up my truck after two shots and ignore Three 88mm HE, five bursts from MG 34 Lafette HMG and twelve MG34 bursts in total from my hanomags! I fucking hate them so much!
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fucking snipers are too powerful. They are too resilient! Shoots up my truck after two shots and ignore Three 88mm HE, five bursts from MG 34 Lafette HMG and twelve MG34 bursts in total from my hanomags! I fucking hate them so much!
Yeah they're cunts, so hard to kill. Maybe that's why in real life they were often executed when caught :D.
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Not hard to kill, just hard to hit ;)
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One of my forward observers can't assign artillery all of a sudden. (C0)
It's ready and should have radio contact.
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Sometimes radios break, just wait for a few turns. Also, are you 100% certain everyone involved has a radio?
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Not 100% sure, no. Can they break? I think the observer got some 75 mm shells from a howitzer at one point. How can I check if it has a radio?
Also, how much arty is too much? I got a leFH 18 battery and three 80 mm GrW making up 5 or 6% of the force.
And finally, one does simple NOT like lafettes! The amount of suppression and casualties I dish out with these are invaluable. Bringing them in instead of the 50 mm GrW was the smartest thing ever. Are there any occations where the 50 mm are better than the HMGs? Urban fighting and forests?
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Not 100% sure, no. Can they break? I think the observer got some 75 mm shells from a howitzer at one point. How can I check if it has a radio?
Also, how much arty is too much? I got a leFH 18 battery and three 80 mm GrW making up 5 or 6% of the force.
And finally, one does simple NOT like lafettes! The amount of suppression and casualties I dish out with these are invaluable. Bringing them in instead of the 50 mm GrW was the smartest thing ever. Are there any occations where the 50 mm are better than the HMGs? Urban fighting and forests?
Sometimes I try to use 50mm mortar but it never does anything :D. I usually swap it for MG15 AA or light AT gun.
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Hm, so I'm debating starting a campaign as germans, starting in 1939. I'm still utter crap, but it might be a good way to learn. What would be a good size map and point limit to use to have smallish size battle? I'm looking to mostly use infantry, AT guns, light tanks, infy support guns and artillery.
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60x60 map, 1500 points.
edit: Get a pair of 15cm IGs, they destroy everything.
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I was thinking of using the 75mm IG, cuz I love that little gun. Convince me otherwise and I may go halv-sies.
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Well it doesnt pack as much of a punch, but I think it might shoot faster. Certainly better for bombardements.
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Speaking of, how does that bombard tool work? Everytime I use it, it just shoots a bit but doesn't show as actually hitting/killing anything.
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There are two basic ways to use artillery: indirect fire which needs to be directed by an observer, or direct fire. Direct fire is either directed against a target unit or against a ground hex (hotkey z). If you shoot at a ground hex, it will be more inaccurate, but still suppress. You can also use it to shoot at hexes that you cant see due to smoke or limited visibility, but in that case the shots will be very inaccurate.
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Gotcha, thanks :) I'll prob start it up tomorrow morning and see what happens.
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Well, I'm running the first battle. I have a company of Panzer 1Bs, a platoon of 6 6-rad cars, 2 ig75, 5 Pak36 (both with horse drawn wagons), 1 infantry company with a HMG and a 5cm mortar in support, and a small fahrrad platoon to support my artillery. Currently in a meeting engagement, and am holding a town and a river line, the town with my infantry and 3 of the Pak guns, river line with my remaining guns, fahrrad, armoured cars, and the HMG/mortar team. I'm holding 5 panzers in support of the infantry in reserve, and am swinging the other Panzers in a long maneuver to the north, where the river is furthur back, hoping to come around above the Polish attack and take the bridges over the river, hopefully using my infantry and Pak guns as the anvil on which the Panzer 1s will fall. I'm not certain how to screenshot the game, but I'll let you guys know what happens. If I do well enough, I may start up an AAR and start handing out units to people ;)
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That force seems pretty light on mobile at. If the poles have 7tps, you are probably screwed.
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THat's part of the fun.
Anyways, the Poles only brought TKS. The problem is more...my game is bugging to all hell. For some reason, units will only fire if they are in the same hex as an enemy unit. Try as I might, they, and the Poles, refuse to fire unless they BOTH occupy the same exact hex. So my Pak 36s were destroyed by Polish TKS's, despite being in perfect shot, because they couldn't fire, and the TKS's just rolled into their hex and killed them. I have done the same to the Polish artillery with my Panzer 1s, assualting them and annhiliating them. Same goes for my infantry. I'm currently using an armoured car to drive up in front of the TKS, drive back and forth until there is exactly one move remaining, so I can drive it into the TKS spot and kill it.
This is weird.
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LOL
Look at visibility. It is probably set to "1". You are playing a night battle ;)
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Too late, battle ended. I guess that's a possibility, lol. Either way I won (though game called it a "draw". Lost 54 men, killed 464, lost 5 tanks, knocked out 5 (all using an armoured car, that got a nice promotion out of it).
I'll keep experimenting, don't fully understand the next battle screen. I thought I had to spend points to repair or something? Instead I just bought a few PzII, more pak guns, and some 20mm AA. Though not sure how that works, can I just continously expand my force? Seems like that would get out of hand pretty quick.
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You need to "fix" your damaged units. You can expand your force indefinitely but then the enemy also gets more forces each battle.
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Gotcha. How do I fix them?
Also, I'm probably gonna restart with same troop layout. I fought that entire battle like it was an annoying bug, not a "night battle" xD
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Clicking on the name of the damaged unit will repair it IIRC.
You can also update your existing equipment to a roughly same type - infantry stays as infantry, but tanks can be changed to other tanks, or even armoured cars, assault guns and SPA. Again, this will affect the points value of your army (so enemy forces will be scaled accordingly).
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got going with it more or less: just 3 questions:
How do you change ammo type (HE/AP)?
Can you abandon an offensive? I had the opportunity to chase the enemy down, and it was kinda stupid and i wanna undo it now, any ideas?
The support you buy before a battle, do they stay or is it 1 battle only?
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How do you change ammo type (HE/AP)?
You don't. The Computer is your friend and does it for you. Of course, the algorithm does not work perfectly all the time and can lead to hilarious situations.
Once in WinSPMBT, my Leo2's were facing T-80's frontally. The AI decided that since at the range I was facing them, HEAT had better penetration than APFSDS as measured in RHA, so HEAT should be used, reactive armour and its effects be damned. Only after I had shot (uselessly) all my HEAT ammunition over several turns did the AI agree to switch to APFSDS, and whaddya know, first shot penetrated.
Can you abandon an offensive? I had the opportunity to chase the enemy down, and it was kinda stupid and i wanna undo it now, any ideas?
Once you enter the deployment phase you can only regenerate the map, but cannot change the mission or abandon the battle unless you reload an earlier save.
The support you buy before a battle, do they stay or is it 1 battle only?
1 battle only. Only your "core" force stays and gathers experience, which is kinda the whole point of the campaign. Also, if you play a "long" WW2 campaign, the quality of the support reflects the general war situation of your chosen nation: randomly chosen German troops in 1945 are likely to be inferior to their 1941 counterparts.
Do note that you can expand your core force as the campaign progresses (to include some "fixed" support elements), though the enemy force will also scale up accordingly.
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thanks, i also found a way to get rid of that offensive, i pressed quit everywhere i saw it and ended in "marginal victory" without playing more than 1 turn.
Anyway, great game for battles untill all the enemy tanks are down and you have 20 turns of attacking and retreating infantry.
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Now the game keeps getting stuck during the end turn, every time the AI moves a certain APC somewhere. Anyone knows some way to fix it?
I tried tens of times hoping it would work anyway, which then results in ctrl+alt+del where the task bar doesn't show up, that i even have to log off and log on again, before i can do anything again
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Regarding ammo types, I seem to remember reading on the winSPWW2 forums that troop experience can have an impact here (i.e. green/inexperienced/frightened troops are more likely to load HE shell and fire at a tank when there is plenty of AP available).
It is funny sometimes. I had a situation like Kelmola, but the opposite: I had one of the short-barreled StuGs with 30 or so HE shells, 6 AP shells and 11 HEAT shells. I was firing at an early Crusader tank in the desert. My StuG fired twenty useless HE shells at the Crusader which did almost nothing (did immobilize it though, one shot blew off a track) and mostly missed, and then once it was out of HE it shot a HEAT shell that blasted through the turrent and blew up the tank and killed the whole crew in one go :D
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Is anybody here interested in an pbem game? I never tried on of those, could be cool. We could even do an aar on this forum.
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Is anybody here interested in an pbem game? I never tried on of those, could be cool. We could even do an aar on this forum.
I would be down. I don't know how they work though, presumably both players need to be playing at the same time?
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I never tried it either, but you dont play at the same time, you keep exchanging your turn files per e mail.
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for some reason i can't use my Wurfgerät. Can't use them in artillery, can't use them with spotters, is there some other way?
nevermind, just found out the range was the problem
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The range is really short. What I do for Wurfgerats is buy some heavy trucks with my support points and drive them closer to the front.
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I'm not yet capable of buying Nebelwerfers (april 1941), but do they have the same problem?
And on another note, it seems to me that support points don't save up but depend on the map. But do the points you use to expand your core save up? Because I have already been saving a bit now to change my Panzertabteilungen to Tigers in 1942, but noticing support doesn't save up made me a bit worried that i was wasting points i could use to expand my force.
And to conclude: in the Schwere Artillerie, I saw a 60cm cannon that fires HE shells, but are these HE shells also capable of blowing up heavier tanks? (matilda etc.)
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Most likely the Karl-Gerät then. Never used those in-game but if there's any semblance of realism, absolutely everything should be #rekt by them, because the "light" shell had 220 kg and "heavy" shell 290 kg of explosive filler (plus 1500 or 1900 kg of metal around it).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t#Ammunition
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yeah, that's them. I was considering buying an abteilung of them to knack some heavier tanks that may cause difficulties. But while invading france, those french tanks survived heavy barrages from 10cm's and my 21cm Morser. Best i got was immobilizing them...
Since then, i'm a bit cautious. 60cm should be overkill on just about anything, i guess, but when they wouldn't be able of killing just about anything, then they seem a bit expensive to me to only have 20 shots. If someone could verify the power of these shells in-game, it would ertainly be welcome, if no-one answers, i'm probably gonna buy them next time I play.
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I'm not yet capable of buying Nebelwerfers (april 1941), but do they have the same problem?
And on another note, it seems to me that support points don't save up but depend on the map. But do the points you use to expand your core save up? Because I have already been saving a bit now to change my Panzertabteilungen to Tigers in 1942, but noticing support doesn't save up made me a bit worried that i was wasting points i could use to expand my force.
And to conclude: in the Schwere Artillerie, I saw a 60cm cannon that fires HE shells, but are these HE shells also capable of blowing up heavier tanks? (matilda etc.)
If you look in the Encyclopedia you can find the dates that weapons are available to and from. Observe:
(http://i.imgur.com/aQPzXZB.jpg)
Nebelwerfer 41 as you can see becomes available to buy in June 1941, as does the 28cm and 32cm Wurfgerat. Nebelwerfer 42, Foot Stuka, Vielfachwerfer, etc. all become available at later date. Note that there is a button to read the Encyclopedia in the middle of a battle, so you can check it any time.
Support points don't save up, but if you have more than a certain number (1000 for me in my current campaign) repair points left, they are added to the support points. So if you don't have to fix a lot of your tanks or infantry (or for whatever reason choose not to), points will be added to the support phase. Note as well that different types of battles will give you different points. You might get 750 support points for a regular meeting engagement, and then 1650 points for a Defense, and next battle 2000 for an Assault, and then 3500 for a River Crossing.
For artillery, it's easy to figure out what will damage what: the numbers under KILL say the maximum number of enemy troops that will be killed by one shell. For a light mortar, this number might be 6:0 (i.e. best case scenario, one mortar shell will cause six casualties). For a heavy off-map gun (like U.S. 8 inch gun) the number will be much higher. For the Karl-Morser it's 106:0, meaning that a direct hit into the middle of a swarm of infantry could theoretically (and if you are very lucky) kill 106 enemy troops. Hardly ever will the actual results get close to that, but I've killed 20 and 30 troops in well-timed Nebelwerfer barrages. I've used Karl mortars a few times on Eastern Front and they are mega, but a little innacurate. It's hard to hit and easy to get frustrated, but if you have artillery spotters in your core that have gained experience in previous battles they are devastating. They can just wipe a city block off the map.
As for the armor penetration of artillery, look at the number under PEN. The left number is penetration with HE shells, the right penetration with AP shells. If the gun/vehicle has HEAT or APCR shells the number will appear under the respective label. As we can see the Karl-Morser has a HE penetration (left number) of 13, which means it will go through the armor of any tank less than 13. Off-map artillery only has to worry about the top armor, and I don't many tanks that have 130mm of armor on the roof.
(http://i.imgur.com/TM4r96z.jpg)
So I would say check out the HE penetration and AP penetration of artillery. Off-map won't have AP shells but usually field guns like Russian 76.2mm, SiG howitzers, 25pdrs etc. will have some AP or APCR for emergencies. Even then, you can still use HE shells to defend against armor, just remember it's the left number that shows how much armor a HE shell can go through, and that like in real life this is extremely unreliable. For example, the 25pdr can go through an armor value of 2 with HE shells, and I've had a 25pdr HE fire knock out two Panzer III Bs in quick succession once, and then have their shells bounces off a Panzer II C ten times before finally killing it. But HE fire can cause a lot of damage, blow off tracks, etc.
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thanks for the information, gonna buy them next time I play (i have way too many repairpoints since i play on easy for my first campaign).
One last thing, I think I once saw something like "couter battery fire" by an off-map artillery unit. What is this and how does this happen? Does this mean off-map artillery isn't invulnerable? (or did i misread, i just thought i read this, but the animation speed is on highest possible which makes bombardments pass in very few seconds, so mistakes in reading are easy)
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thanks for the information, gonna buy them next time I play (i have way too many repairpoints since i play on easy for my first campaign).
One last thing, I think I once saw something like "couter battery fire" by an off-map artillery unit. What is this and how does this happen? Does this mean off-map artillery isn't invulnerable? (or did i misread, i just thought i read this, but the animation speed is on highest possible which makes bombardments pass in very few seconds, so mistakes in reading are easy)
Counter-battery fire can occur when both armies have off-map artillery, so no they aren't untouchable. You can't try to do it, it's just random (although if you bought off-map arty in your core and it gets experience, counter-battery fire becomes more often and accurate). So for example if I am playing as Germany and I buy an off-map 10cm artillery battery, sometimes after it fires it will take hits from a Russian 76mm off-map battery (or 152mm or 203mm or whatever they have). It's totally computer controlled though, but it always feels nice when the enemy showers a field 4 miles away from your main force, and then it says "Germany 150mm SiG using counter-battery fire, Russian 76mm FG takes 10 hits". So you can lose your off-map artillery by this method, but only once you have actually fired it.
By the way, a tip for on-map artillery like mortars is don't forget to relocate after firing. I always get lazy and then my Nebel batteries get masscared because I gave away their position by firing and then didn't relocate. But by the same token, about halfway through the battle you should scan the enemy's half of the map because often times some of their arty or AA guns will be visible. This is to reflect the real world method of using sound to pinpoint the location of enemy guns.
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I did already find other artillery and then killed them (I have overwhelming artillery by now), but they indeed hit my howitzers as well. So how do you do it? You fire twice, relocate, fire twice relocate and so on? What vehicles you use? (i have the 7.5's). And are they worth putting so much efford in it? Even against infantry I don't consider them really effective. In my opinion they are just useful for breaking morale, and firing on infantry that's so close to your lighter tanks that you don't dare putting your 10cm Schw. Art. Abt. on it.
About the counterfire: does your artillery have to be idle to counterfire, or do they also counterfire while they are on a firemission?
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I think they have to be idle to counterfire but I'm not 100% sure.
What I do is wait for as long as possible before firing on-map arty because that lowers the number of times you have to relocate. What I usually do is buy a platoon of heavy trucks before the battle with support points, and park them in the same hex as the mortar. That way once they are done firing, you can load them and move them in the next turn. You can put lots of stuff in heavy trucks so that's what I use, although light trucks are faster.
Arty does seem a bit ineffective sometimes, so I usually dial up the effectiveness in Settings to 200%. I find that's a sweet spot between too effective and not effective enough. At 100% by default, it's kind of lame to blast enemy positions with 150mm field guns and get like one casualty.
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Yup, same reason i play 200%. Tanks i've set to 150% because i had the impression they were really really weak on 100%. But for my next campaign, I think i'm gonna say goodbye to my field artillery. Now i just use it since it's there anyway, but it's too much work and too weak. Another things i have been wondering is what the use of the flak is. I bought from the very first game a few flak batteries and they didn't fire a single shot so far. The AI doesn't use planes on easy or what? Or do they come later?
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Yup, same reason i play 200%. Tanks i've set to 150% because i had the impression they were really really weak on 100%. But for my next campaign, I think i'm gonna say goodbye to my field artillery. Now i just use it since it's there anyway, but it's too much work and too weak. Another things i have been wondering is what the use of the flak is. I bought from the very first game a few flak batteries and they didn't fire a single shot so far. The AI doesn't use planes on easy or what? Or do they come later?
The AI definitely uses planes on all difficulty levels but the chances of seeing them reflect the real-world situation. So for example, the German AI will use lots of Stukas, BF109s, etc. in Poland, France, etc. because in real life, they had domination of the sky. But if you are fighting in France in 1944, you will see tons of Allied planes but not a lot of German ones.
I usually only purchase flak batteries in Support points, and even then I know there are some people who play winSPWW2 and don't bother with it at all. The AI tends to buy lots of AA guns though, I had a battle a few days ago where I bought 5 x Fieseler Storch and set them all to go on spotting runs on turn 12, and 4 of them got shot down.
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At least when I last played, off-board counterbattery fire requires that your guns have been idle the previous turn (though they can fire normally after firing counterbattery fire). The likelihood (and lethality) of counterbattery fire is directly tied to the experience of the firing artillery.
Unseen enemy arty and AAA can also be located by the smoke they create even if the gun itself does not become visible (so you can direct artillery/call in spotting plane or airstrikes when you see the smoke).
Vehicles can also raise dust clouds when moving if the weather is dry enough (eg. African desert, Russian steppes in the summer) - the faster they move, the more dust they will create and the more likely it is (so those scout cars trying to outflank you will be revealed because of their speed). Don't know whether the AI "sees" the dust though. Again, LOS is not required for seeing the dust (the idea is probably that it will float higher than intervening terrain).
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Yeah, dust clouds can help a lot. You can see them very early on and they're a big help. Also note that when the AI is doing it's turn, if you see a building go down and "structure collapses" is seen, that means an enemy vehicle has driven through that building and may be stuck (but also may not be).
I remember fighting a battle where this happened and it was a Polish 7TP that got stuck in a house, but I forgot about it, and it blasted 3 out of 4 Panzer IVs I drove past it. Then I targeted the tank for 10cm artillery and blasted it to smithereens :D.
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Please forgive the horrendous necro but I am a very powerful nymphomancer and therefore assure you that all is well.
So I started playing WinSPWW2... and since we already had this thread I figured I may as well post in it...
Ok so this game is very fun but my main problem is that enemy turns take forever. And it's very grating to have to listen to the constant machine gun ratatat noises. Is there some way to speed up their turns? Or get a quick resume of what actually happened without having to watch the whole thing?
I've been playing a Spanish Civil War scenario (viva la revolucion!) and it's mostly infantry, which might explain why it takes so long. Each turn consists of about 15 infantry units shooting at each other without ever hitting anything.
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IIRC there is an option "Hidden enemy turn" or something like that which is exactly what you are looking for.
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Oh thank god. It's driving me nuts.
Follow up question - what does radio contact do? And what's the downside when a unit is "out of contact"?
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Ah I love this game. There are actually official scenarios made by me on the official release, btw. Some of which might end up as FH2 maps ;).
About contact:
The game simulates military hierarchy. The highest instance is your commander, the A0 unit. Below that you got company commanders (B0 for your first company) and below that platoons which consist of a platoon command unit (C0, D0, E0) and the two to three vehicles or squads under its control (C1, C2, C3 / D1, D2, D3 etc). Each should always be in contact with it commanding unit, either directly, or through radio. That being said, in WW2 most nations infantry squads do not have radios, so you should keep them within a 5 hex radius of each other and move them as a platoon. For infantry the platoon is usually your smallest unit of maneuvre.
The commanding units come into play when it comes to morale. Units out of contact are pinned easier and in some cases even get pinned without reason, meaning they just stop because they don't get orders anymore. Also, whenever you try to rally a unit to get them to unpin, first the squadleader tries to rally them, if that fails the platoon commander, then the Company Commander and then the A0 unit as last instance. If this line is broken through lack of contact, you will have less of a chance to get your men moving again. Because if your squad leader fails to rally them and there is no contact to the platoon leader, they stay pinned for that turn (or retreating or routed). This can easily spitball out of control!
Most newb players make the mistake of randomly scattering their units around on the map, kilometres away from each other. Don't do that! Deploy your units together according to the organization. Gimme a minute and I will show you.
Ok
(http://i.imgur.com/ZXp5IFb.png)
This is a typicaly formation I use for a 1944 type German infantry company on an attack. Keep them close together and lead with one platoon. Once they encounter the enemy have them fire at them to suppress and maneuvre with your other two platoons to get close and fuck them.
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Excellent, this is fast becoming addictive.
Can I re-man abandoned crew-served weapons?
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Only with the original crew, just move into the same hex.
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Applies to immobilized & abandoned tanks too.
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Any chance of seeing another winspWW2 campaign by a forumite?
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You could do it.
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I might. Do infantry close assault tanks automatically? How am I supposed to deal with armour when I only have infantry?
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They can assault if you or they attack an enemy tank or bunker, but only if they have some kind of explosive, are in the same or an adjacent hex, are ready and haven't moved too far in that round.
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One good trick is to set the firing range for the infantry unit(s) you want to ambush tanks on enemy turn to 1 or 0, meaning they won't shoot and reveal themselves until the enemy is in adjacent (or indeed, same!) hex. Obviously works best if they are well hidden in woods, among buildings, etc. and the enemy is not sneaky enough to use spotters (especially infantry) to scout out your ambushes.
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Thanks for all the tips. More questions still to come.
For example, do pioneers automatically remove mines in a neighbouring hex?
Also, I'd like to start a campaign soon, but I'm finding buying troops and deploying them to be a bit overwhelming. Any tips?
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Thanks for all the tips. More questions still to come.
For example, do pioneers automatically remove mines in a neighbouring hex?
Yes
Also, I'd like to start a campaign soon, but I'm finding buying troops and deploying them to be a bit overwhelming. Any tips?
First of all: How much do you know about military organization?
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First of all: How much do you know about military organization?
Not a lot. I was going to tell you not to worry, because I thought I figured it out yesterday. I started a long campaign as the Brits in 44, and everything seemed to be going well. I had eliminated a company of Panthers quite handily with not many losses myself, but then I got bogged down in infantry combat in the hedgerows. Now a few turns later, I've lost every tank but one and the majority of my mechanized infantry company, all to a few squads of SS and one Panzer IV. How the tables have turned... my confidence may have been misplaced...
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I learned with the Germans who starts out with more organization or morale early war. (I think)
I started in the month they get the PZ IV F2 to get the long L/43.
I used
1x Beobachter arty spotter
2x Snipers
2x MG34 HMG (lafette)
1x LeFh 18 Howitzers (4 guns)
1x SdfKz 222 (3 AFV's)
1x PzIV F2 (4 AFV's)
1x Company of standard wehrmacht inf.
After getting used to things, I added more stuff in, like 88 mm and a Motorized company (later mechanized by switching out the Opels)
I guess Ts4 has a more balanced noob-friendly build than I used, but it worked for me. I feel it is hard to have a good balance of armor and infantry. I fought my first battles in North Africa, to use my superior range on the guns (sniper, HMG, L/43 and 88mm)
Mechanize if possible. I lost so many trucks to enemy fire, while the Sdkfz 251's could chill and lay supporting fire with the MG. The 222's are great to wolf pack on a flank and scout ahead, but watch out for Bofors AA, those shred them to pieces.
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Hmm maybe I'll start a German campaign with that set up and see how it goes. I haven't mastered the art of the scout car yet. I always send them too far forward to be immediatly knocked out by AT guns or whatever. In fact TS I tried the scenario you posted in this thread for VM to try out and I didn't do great haha
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The biggest issue I have with the game(s) is the size of the battle. It's really hard to determine how many points you need for which sized unit, especially as I personally prefer commanding only one or two companies at a time. I don't mind bigger units either, it's just that the setup and keeping up to date with the organisation starts getting really tedious (especially when the interface is what it is).
What happens if you don't use all your points when buying units? Does the AI match it by using the same amount of points, or does it use all of them?
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Hmm maybe I'll start a German campaign with that set up and see how it goes.
Switch out and stay away from any infantry that has 5 cm mortar! Slows them down and does minimal damage once you've gotten them in position. I've only had bad experiences with them.
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A new update was released today, including 5 new scenarios made by me ;D some of them might hint at future FH2 maps btw... ;)
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Pump, dump, rebump
I saw in the hotkey thread how you can press `C` to take cover with infantry. How does this work?
1. If you don't, does the inf just stand around chilling? Don't they hit the deck automatically when taking fire?
2. It says that they take cover to try to break enemy LOS. Doesn't it help with not getting hit too? (Simulating actively seeking a decent cover from enemy fire)
3. Can you order a unit to take cover and move them around in an alert state si they are harder to see and harder to hit? Or is the effect only there when they're stationary?
4. It says the unit needs two move points. How much is that for comparison?
5. How can I use it effectively? (Good for snipers, arty spotters, observing patrols and infantry ready to hold a position I guess?)
Urban combat:
One hex is 50x50 meters right?
1. Is there a difference between buildings? Any way to know if it is a block or one single house?
2. How many can I cram up? 8-12 men seems like few men serms like too few to defend 50x50 meters worth of buildings.
3. Some buildings are has an "S" or a "W" before building (for instance: "W. Building") what does this mean?
Misc:
1. Any chart anywhere I can find the defensive values on different hex types for infantry? Road and desert bad, urban, woods good. The different fields are harder though.
2. How is height simulated? 1=default height, 10=10 meters above default height?)
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I may try and get my head around this game again. I just read a book about the Burma campaign and want to try my hand at kicking the Japanese out of India... however I have been looking through the scenarios and notice that they are a little German-biased. A good 75% of them seem to be made with it in mind that the player plays as the Germans. I don't want to be the mean ol' Nazzies! I want to kick the crap out of them!
Edit: TS I'm playing your scenario now "the Factory". Seem to be holding out alright so far... does anyone else feel that the infantry hit rates are too low? I mean, a section of Tommies should have more than a 4% chance of hitting a German squad in an open field 400 meters away, right?
Edit to the Edit: TS, I just wanted to say that this is an excellently created scenario! The Germans had more or less overrun my position last night, and even my headquarters was involved in close-quarters combat in a desperate attempt to push them out of the last factory building. Both my AT guns got shot to pieces by German machine guns and I can't do anything about their Panther.
Just as I was about to give it up, the reinforcements arrived to save the day! Four Sherman II's and a few halftracks of fresh infantry. It's still a challenge though, I need to figure out how to take down this Panther and their Elefant.
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Thanks! About infantry hit rates, note that 400m is at the limit of effective range for many weapons and that the game assumes that infantry, unless they are moving fast, will try to avoid fire by lying down. So with that in mind, it makes more sense.
edit: regarding your question about the scenario, IIRC the "trick" is to use mortars and artillery to separate the German infantry from the heavy tanks and then close assaulting them with infantry in the factory.
edit2: also note that a new patch was released recently, which includes several new (allied side) scenarios by myself, set in 1945, as well as a new Russian campaign I made a while back, aimed at beginning players.
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edit2: also note that a new patch was released recently, which includes several new (allied side) scenarios by myself, set in 1945, as well as a new Russian campaign I made a while back, aimed at beginning players.
I have started your Lvov to Berlin campaign. I know it says its for beginners, but I'm still finding it hard! I've tried the first mission once and ragequit after three of my tanks got taken out by a German pak gun. My question is how best to scout enemy positions, especially infantry inside houses. It seems like the only way to see is to send your own men in, and then they get greased at close range.
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The hint for that first scenario is in the briefing: You are not supposed to defeat all Germans, just get to the victory point area within the time limit. It says there are German remnants in the village and in the forest, so that is where you will not go (since you don't need to defeat them). Note that you can put your infantry on tanks to move them quicker.
About house to house fighting: generally you will have to draw fire to find them, so the goal is to draw fire from relatively long range where it won't kill too many people. Have a tank ready to then move in and suppress the position. You can also bombard suspected position with the z hotkey.
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Tips on how best to conduct recon? AKA is there any way better than sending my armored cars forward to get themselves blown up? I try and find a nice hiding spot but rarely can I find one with any good observation.
Second question: Does off-map artillery have an ammo count? Also, what percentage of effectiveness do you suggest setting it to? Currently I have 200%, because it very rarely even seems to kill people otherwise.
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Recon in this game basically just means making contact with the enemy, usually by drawing his fire. The trick is to make contact with only a small part of your force, so you can maneuver the rest based on the new information.
Regarding artillery: 100% is the normal setting and it works fine. You just need to know that the most casualties will be dealt against moving infantry in the open. If they are dug in or halted a turn, you need significant concentrations to dig them out, as every WW1 general will tell you.
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Thanks as always. I'm thinking of doing an FH forumite campaign like the old one again, maybe using your Lvov to Berlin campaign. Do you have any suggestions for easy scenarios to do for a little more practice? I'm a little daunted by some which require you to manage loads and loads of units.
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I am become necro, the reviver og threads
This gem deserves a rebump. I started playing recently again and I want to create a correct German battailon/abteilung. Only problem is I am having difficulties finding sources on their organisation.
Is 1x heavy weapons company and 3x infantry companies correct for a standard wehrmacht infantry company?
What about SS battalions? Any difference? And panzergrenadiers.
If anyone has a website detailing how an battalion is organised I would be very happy. Bonus points for any historic kampfgruppe OOBs.
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https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstnmain.htm
Enjoy.
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Muchos gracias
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I need to get back into this as well.
Does anyone else like to play the scenarios? I especially like the Spanish Civil War and early war ones. It seems there are not many Pacific War ones, though.