Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: psykfallet on 22-02-2010, 17:02:50
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Breda modello 35 20mm AA gun used by Italians, Brits and Aussies. Same gun as in the L6/40, was used on some Saharinas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone-Mitragliera_da_20/65_modello_35_%28Breda%29
Solothurn S18/1000
already in game on the Saharina, how about taking it and making it a deployable kit as standard Italian AT-Rifle?
(http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/vapen/d/antitank/05209.jpg)
Rifle grenade attachment
http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=11237370
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More italian stuff = better.
Unfortunately italians and their equipment arent in priority right now. Maybe in the distant future.
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List of things truly missing in FH2's Italian army
Tanks=
Carre Armato M11/39
Carre Armato M14/41 (Common in late africa, good for El alamein)
Armoured cars=
Autoblinda 41
Lince armoured car
SP Guns=
Semovente da 75/18
Semovente M 41M da 90/53
Artillery=
Brixia Model 35 (45MM high rate of fire Mortar)
Cannone da 47/32 M35 (Should be main AT gun, it wassent great but usefull against both Cruiser/light tanks and Infantery)
Cannone da 75/32 modello 37( Could be main field gun)
Cannone da 75/46 C.A. modello 34 (Dual purpose gun, not really comparable in firepower to the Flak18)
Cannone da 90/53 (The best Dual purpose gun of World war 2)
These where the common Italian equipment of WW2.
I suggested these things before, and Flippy is right. Their are higher priority things first
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Yep, those are all things we want, but just currently won't have for awhile :P
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I'd love to see even a stationary version of the S18/1000 that could be placed like stationary mgs. A deployable version would be sweet.
But ultimatly, the most pressing things for the italians would be a truck, an AT gun and a [sniper] carcano carbine (note, not a short rifle as in the mod currently).
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Breda modello 35 20mm AA gun used by Italians, Brits and Aussies. Same gun as in the L6/40, was used on some Saharinas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone-Mitragliera_da_20/65_modello_35_%28Breda%29
Solothurn S18/1000
already in game on the Saharina, how about taking it and making it a deployable kit as standard Italian AT-Rifle?
(http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/vapen/d/antitank/05209.jpg)
Rifle grenade attachment
http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=11237370
Pretty good that you found those Italian rifle grenades
They should be added aswel, but imo, to balance, for pity sake decrease the explosive radius of the BOMBA MANO 35. 36 Grams of Explosives shouldnt be this strong (For comparision, the Mills had 300G of Barantol)
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They should be added aswel, but imo, to balance, for pity sake decrease the explosive radius of the BOMBA MANO 35. 36 Grams of Explosives shouldnt be this strong (For comparision, the Mills had 300G of Barantol)
Make sure that is the contents of the right one. There were three types of grenade, the FH2 version is the one ade by O.T.O.
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I'd love to see even a stationary version of the S18/1000 that could be placed like stationary mgs. A deployable version would be sweet.
But ultimatly, the most pressing things for the italians would be a truck, an AT gun and a [sniper] carcano carbine (note, not a short rifle as in the mod currently).
IIRC, the italians never used sniper rifles.
And the mills had 70 grams, not 300, afaik. However, due to its heavy construction it would use much of its blast potential on actually rupturing the metal, thus causing a smaller explosion, while the OTO grenade would use very little of its blast potential.
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They should be added aswel, but imo, to balance, for pity sake decrease the explosive radius of the BOMBA MANO 35. 36 Grams of Explosives shouldnt be this strong (For comparision, the Mills had 300G of Barantol)
Make sure that is the contents of the right one. There were three types of grenade, the FH2 version is the one ade by O.T.O.
Bombo a Mano O.T.O where produced in 2 versions=One with 36G of Explosive content and 63.FH2 uses the 36G one
@Vonmudra A mills bomb weights 760 Grams. I know it, i held one from WW2. Imo they barely or even not have any explosive advantege over the Stielgranate, wich only used 120G of explosive and dint had shrapnel( Or if that shrapnel jacket was fitted)
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Wrong, the stick nade had 165 grams, and was designed as an offensive grenade, essentially a form of a flashbang that could kill if it was close enough via overpressure. This would be especially effective in enclosed areas, where even people in cover in the room or such would be killed by the blast wave. I've been over this before.
And nope, mills had 70 grams, and due to heavy construction, it indeed had a small blast, but could kill at farther range due to shrapnel.
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If we're being specific here, its not shrapnel, but fragments ;)
Anyways, I have seen a pic of a carcano cavelry carbine with an italian scope on it.
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Haha, true ;)
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Italien need this: http://shop.mcronse.be/images/webshop/BRM35008.jpg
Motorcycle and a map about operation compass
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I want these so much more than M36 Jackson or that sort of cardboard. More Italian maps and more Italian guns. Would be nice if devs made one Italian map and 3 Normandy maps instead of 4 Normandy maps :).
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Since the solothurn is already in, it wouldnt require as much work to add it methinks.
Italian trucks, they had so damn many so I'm not sure wich one was most common.
Fiat 626
(http://www.centoventesimo.com/mezzi/camion/626/Fiat_626_chassis.jpg)
(http://www.minimi.co.uk/pictures/fiat626.jpg)
(http://www.kitsreview.com/modules/cpg/albums/uploads/anteprime/italiankits-fiat666/004.jpg)
(http://www.modellismopiu.net/m+photo/data/2365/P8310507.jpg)
blueprints: http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/cars/fiat/24587/
Lancia SPA 38
(http://www.esercito.difesa.it/root/equipaggiamenti/img_equip/img_mezzi_storici/spa38.jpg)
Here we have the italian AA gun mounted on the Chevy truck (same as LRDG) as an early mobile AA
(http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/vehicles/anti-air-italian-truck.jpg)
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Isn't the soluthorn a bit heavy for the At guy?
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So is a lafette or a vickers. Its basically a pick up kit, wouldn't work for spawnable AT. For at rifle, the italians could use the Wz. 35
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Oh I believe the Breda 35 is also on the Marmon Herrington so you got the basic data already
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Does anyone have any info on this rifle grenade cup for the M91?
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8480/dsc00060mb.jpg)
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4610/dsc00063ik.jpg)
Also, I found this:
(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1074/dol260rl3.jpg)
(http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2089/261wl3.jpg)
I'd say either give the Italians this, or don't give tham snipers at all. The K98k sniper is just so out of place.
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Does anyone have any info on this rifle grenade cup for the M91?
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8480/dsc00060mb.jpg)
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4610/dsc00063ik.jpg)
It's a M43 grenade launcher.
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As I noted in a previous post awhile back, there have only been a very few sniper carcano's ever documented. The Jagdtiger would have been more common. SO while yes, they existed, it simply was in numbers so minuscule to make it unrealistic to have. So imo, just remove sniper rifles from itie all together....
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I had in mind an Italian vs Soviet map, now its on paper....
I just need Snow Textures, skins, USSR, Italian stuff....
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but you have the Idea
Something tells me that this is the easiest part …..
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Cannone da 47/32 M35
The Cannone da 47/32 M35 was an Austrian artillery piece produced under license in Italy during World War II. It was used both as an infantry gun and an anti-tank gun.
In contrast to other "dual purpose" artillery pieces of similar weight used during the war, such as the PaK 36 and Bofors 37 mm, it proved to be successful even in an anti-tank role especially when equipped with HEAT (Italian: "Effetto Pronto") rounds.
The gun could fire both armor piercing and high explosive projectiles, the latter having a range of 7,000 meters to provide the gun with a useful infantry support role. As the armor thickness of tanks increased, the Böhler increasingly assumed this infantry support role.
AMMUNITION
* 47 mod. 35 powder charge grenade
* Piercing projectile mod. 35
* Anti tank projectile "effetto-pronto"
* Anti tank projectile "effetto-pronto speciale"
* Piercing tracer projectile mod. 39
* Piercing tracer projectile mod. 35
* Blank projectile
* Exercitation grenade
(http://www.italie1935-45.com/RE/photoscopes/photoscopecannone47-32/profil%27.JPG)
Brixia modello 35 45mm mortar
(http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/pics/italian-45mm-mortar.jpg)
mortar round (same as used in the rifle grenade launcher)
(http://www.comandosupremo.com/images/mortarround1.jpg)
even found an old thread about it
http://forums.filefront.com/fh2-suggestions/174167-brixia-45-5-modello-35-a.html
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In contrast to other "dual purpose" artillery pieces of similar weight used during the war, such as the PaK 36 and Bofors 37 mm, it proved to be successful even in an anti-tank role especially when equipped with HEAT (Italian: "Effetto Pronto") rounds.
The Pak 36 and other 37mm/40mm types like the 2lber and the american 37mm were all very successful.... The 2lber ripped through the Pz1, 2, and 3s used in the invasion of france, whilst the american 37mm was incredibly successful against the japanese tanks in the pacific. The Pak36, while woefully underpowered against the french heavy tanks, the maty, and the T-34, did just as good as intended against the majority of allied and russian tanks at the time, which were as light as the panzer 2s and 3s. Also, the Pak36 ALSO got a heat shell that could be loaded over the end of the muzzle, which was highly effective in normandy due to the close combat conditions.
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The Machi MC202 Folgore
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7042/18319038.jpg)
And most unlikely the Cant Z 1007, since i haven't seen any medium bomber yet...
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6320/cantz1007iii0ay.jpg)
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i hope they focus after ardennes on the italian front...
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The Ma.202 Folgore "just" needs code, animations and...everything except the model and textures. The Static can already be seen on Hyacinth. Although where it would flown... Gazala? Replace one of the 109s? There's already Italian Tanks on that map.
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Maybe more early war Italian maps? Anyway it can be added later, if the devs decide to make the mediterranean theater (Invasion of Italy, bombing of Malta...).
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In contrast to other "dual purpose" artillery pieces of similar weight used during the war, such as the PaK 36 and Bofors 37 mm, it proved to be successful even in an anti-tank role especially when equipped with HEAT (Italian: "Effetto Pronto") rounds.
The Pak 36 and other 37mm/40mm types like the 2lber and the american 37mm were all very successful.... The 2lber ripped through the Pz1, 2, and 3s used in the invasion of france, whilst the american 37mm was incredibly successful against the japanese tanks in the pacific. The Pak36, while woefully underpowered against the french heavy tanks, the maty, and the T-34, did just as good as intended against the majority of allied and russian tanks at the time, which were as light as the panzer 2s and 3s. Also, the Pak36 ALSO got a heat shell that could be loaded over the end of the muzzle, which was highly effective in normandy due to the close combat conditions.
I just copied that text from wiki and commandosupremo ;)
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Love the name of the italian HEAT: Effetto Pronto --> INSTANT EFFECT!
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The Ma.202 Folgore "just" needs code, animations and...everything except the model and textures. The Static can already be seen on Hyacinth. Although where it would flown... Gazala? Replace one of the 109s? There's already Italian Tanks on that map.
and El Ala I guess
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The italians have so much awesome stuff
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I want a flyable Machi!!! FTW! That would be cool but AFAIK the machi just looked cool it was not a super good plane.. right?
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From what I know and thats some vague memories about something I saw on YT or read in a book a long time ago it was a pretty good plane. The engine is a Daimler-Benz, same one as in the 109 and the aerodynamics are all ok so it was quick, agile and it's weapons seem to be all ok for me to.
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Actually, the only thing wrong with Folgore was that it was under-armed. It basically had the equivalent of 2 .50 cal/12.7mm MGs, except they were underpowered compared to other weapons of the same caliber. However, those 2 MGs were centerline, so the pilots didn't have to worry about gun convergence. Later models added a .303 cal/7.7mm MG in each wing, which added weight, but only marginally better firepower (they were obviously less powerful than the centerline 12.7mms, and had to deal with convergence, but more guns is more guns...). Most pilots actually preferred to leave the 7.7 mm MGs out, to save on weight.
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is this italian Machinegun in?
it is the Fiat-Revelli Modello 1935
used from 1937 to 1945
8x59mm RB Breda
750 m/s (2,460 ft/s) muzzle velocity
range 1000 meters
feed system normally a 300 round belt
(http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/vapen/ita/mg/05291.jpg)
it's a typical heavy MG cause i can't really say a gun that weights 17 kilos to be light heh they're called heavy for a reason and italian heavy MGs are no exception
also i found this strange revolver wich was used in WW1 and WW2 by the italians
Bodeo Model 1889
(http://www.empirearms.com/A1432-1.jpg)
note that it doesen't have a fingershield and the trigger can be folded and unfolded.
it's double action and well....only the US and the GB and USSR has been seen using revolvers in FH, shouldnt the italians also be allowed to use them?
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No its not, and it prob won't be for a very long time. Italian Army is not a focus point right now for the mod. Devs are in normandy.
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but it's a possibility these weapons i showed may be seen in FH in the future?
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Eventually, maybe.
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they already have a pistol and a machine gun. what they need is to get rid of the placeholders (trucks, at&aa guns) btw I'm unable to find wich mines were most common, wikipedia has a bunch of them (both ap&at) but no production numbers
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Actually, the only thing wrong with Folgore was that it was under-armed. It basically had the equivalent of 2 .50 cal/12.7mm MGs, except they were underpowered compared to other weapons of the same caliber. However, those 2 MGs were centerline, so the pilots didn't have to worry about gun convergence. Later models added a .303 cal/7.7mm MG in each wing, which added weight, but only marginally better firepower (they were obviously less powerful than the centerline 12.7mms, and had to deal with convergence, but more guns is more guns...). Most pilots actually preferred to leave the 7.7 mm MGs out, to save on weight.
This
Folgore's where very competitive aircraft. They could keep up with allied aircraft well unto the end of war. But their Firepower was its weakness.is this italian Machinegun in?
(http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/vapen/ita/mg/05291.jpg)
Shamefully it issent, but it should be. It was one of the few good Machine guns the italians had.
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Flamethrower mod.35/40
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=25434#p226372 <- includes stats pics & schematics
AP-Mine
http://www.ammunitionpages.com/download/240/Italian%20B-4%20apers%20mine.pdf <- looks almost like a s-mine
AT-MINES
Pignone AT-mines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pignone_mine_P-1
various AT-mines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_9_wooden_anti-tank_mine
http://www.ammunitionpages.com/download/239/Italian%20four-igniter%20mine.pdf
http://www.ammunitionpages.com/download/241/Italian%20Anti-tank%20B2%20series.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_II_bakelite_anti-tank_mine
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Italian smoke grenade; basicly the same except some holes and it's yellow
(http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2871/srcmsmokegrenadelx7.jpg)
http://www.moddb.com/mods/mare-nostrum/images/italian-weapons2#imagebox
Fiat 508 CM kubel equivilant
http://theminiaturespage.com/workbench/352450/
http://imcdb.org/images/178/739.jpg
half good interior shots
http://www.stefano-paracchi.com/coloniale.htm
Fiat 626 interior and underneath
http://www.modellismosalento.it/modelli/mezzi_militari/Fiat626/Fiat626.html
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Keep em coming!
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lulz
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Italians relly need more love. They are missing so much important stuff.
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More italian stuff = better.
Unfortunately italians and their equipment arent in priority right now. Maybe in the distant future.
you could also see it this way.. italians are in the game.. why not take advantage of that and not leave them half finished.. unlike some ukko pekka bayonet, when finnish are waay off (or?). but it's your mod and you do as you wish of course.
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Actually, the only thing wrong with Folgore was that it was under-armed. It basically had the equivalent of 2 .50 cal/12.7mm MGs, except they were underpowered compared to other weapons of the same caliber. However, those 2 MGs were centerline, so the pilots didn't have to worry about gun convergence. Later models added a .303 cal/7.7mm MG in each wing, which added weight, but only marginally better firepower (they were obviously less powerful than the centerline 12.7mms, and had to deal with convergence, but more guns is more guns...). Most pilots actually preferred to leave the 7.7 mm MGs out, to save on weight.
This
Folgore's where very competitive aircraft. They could keep up with allied aircraft well unto the end of war. But their Firepower was its weakness.is this italian Machinegun in?
(http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/vapen/ita/mg/05291.jpg)
Shamefully it issent, but it should be. It was one of the few good Machine guns the italians had.
indeed, I sometimes fly them in IL-2 Sturmovik, they react like a 109 and I use them a lot against bombers, but usually, I get shot down
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The Machi MC202 Folgore
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7042/18319038.jpg)
And most unlikely the Cant Z 1007, since i haven't seen any medium bomber yet...
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6320/cantz1007iii0ay.jpg)
please, it's too big, a SM.79 Sparviero would be better, has a funny 672 x 2 kg bomblets dumped in one time
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I'd love to see even a stationary version of the S18/1000 that could be placed like stationary mgs. A deployable version would be sweet.
But ultimatly, the most pressing things for the italians would be a truck, an AT gun and a [sniper] carcano carbine (note, not a short rifle as in the mod currently).
Well after some searching on the interwebs i found this beauty
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5769/60914712.jpg
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV135px9
What ive learned about it is that it wasnt really used much since the scopes dated back from WW1 and where bought from the french. They only had 2000 or so back then ill try to find more info
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Yeah, I posted that rifle before. Twas a one off...IIRC the italians just never really ever used snipers in combat much. Probably didn't have the time or money to train snipers properly.
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Invasion of Italy would be a great campaign!
Italien uber alles!
For vehicles
Carro Armato P26/40,one of the Carro Veloce s,Autoblinda 41 and 43.
For RA,the Fiat CR.42 and the SM.79 would come in handy.
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Invasion of Italy would be a great campaign!
Italien uber alles!
For vehicles
Carro Armato P26/40,one of the Carro Veloce s,Autoblinda 41 and 43.
For RA,the Fiat CR.42 and the SM.79 would come in handy.
yes, a P26 would be funny to make
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GOD i'd love to use some new italian weapons and that bomber looks awesome looks like a combination of Lancaster B-25 Dauntless( with the Propeller nosecone) and Junkers Ju 88
as it is now it is pretty empty and the italian forces seems like just an weak application to the axis, they were good soldiers.
btw could we make it so that the Bersaglieri is the only ones with black capercaillie feathers on their helmets.
they are an elite unit of the italian army that was formed back in 1836 and gave the allies a bit of an headache in WW2 though they used pretty much the same weapons as the rest they were actually more well equipped.
plus they had bicycles^^.
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I still say if we have Italian army the best thing would be 1940 invasion of Greece.Because thats their own battle .
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I still say if we have Italian army the best thing would be 1940 invasion of Greece.Because thats their own battle .
yep that's true.
love to fight there as Italian Bersaglieri.
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I still say if we have Italian army the best thing would be 1940 invasion of Greece.Because thats their own battle .
you just want that for your greek bias ;)
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No not really
I just see this was the "real" war of the Italians...It was their plan,their design,their army and their attack so this was their own real battle(well until the Germans got bored and attacked too).Not that Africa or Defense of Italy was any less theirs but this attack was completely theirs.
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you're right and it would be nice if the loading screen of the first map where they had til now classified orders or an field report in italian of what they were to do or what they had accomplished thus far abit like a A Day of Zitadelle.
and with greek and italian soldiers
and playing an nice greek or italian tune from that time.
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No not really
I just see this was the "real" war of the Italians...It was their plan,their design,their army and their attack so this was their own real battle(well until the Germans got bored and attacked too).Not that Africa or Defense of Italy was any less theirs but this attack was completely theirs.
Sure but then the greeks need their weapons aswel. Do you have a list maybe of what weapons they used? and planes? and any tanks or vehicles?
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Of course i do...;) If you remember my first post here was about Greek army . I have complete info of what is needed weapons/planes/Artillery/vehicles .
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Of course i do...;) If you remember my first post here was about Greek army . I have complete info of what is needed weapons/planes/Artillery/vehicles .
link please ;D
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i can also help with this.
weapons used except Axis Captured wich the allies provided was
SMLE Lee Enfield mostly Mk2 and Mk3, Mannlicher-Schönauer and also M1 Garand
EPK (Pyrkal) Machine gun(an Submachinegun wich is a pure Greek weapon and proparbly the only one made during the second world war).
Thompson Submachinegun and the only Machinegun they did have was an old relic from the 1st World War
Schwarzlose MG M.07/12
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planes:
Fighter:
Bloch MB-151
Bomber:
Potez 63
Weapons :
Small Arms & Support Weapons (MMGs & Mortars) used by the Greek Army:
•EPK (Pyrkal) Sub-Machine gun
•Mannlicher-Schonauer 6.5mm M1903/14 Rifle
•Hotchkiss 8mm Light Machine Gun
•St. Etienne Medium Machine Gun
•Greek Gras Mle 1874 rifle
Anti-Tank Weapons
•0.55" Boys Anti-Tank Rifle (British)
•20mm Solothurn Anti-Tank Rifle (Captured from Italians)
•37mm L/45 Anti-Tank Gun (German PaK35)
•47mm L/32 Anti-Tank Gun (Captured from Italians)
Anti-Aircraft Weapons
•20mm L/113 AA Gun (German FlaK30)
•37mm L/98 AA Gun (German FlaK36)
•88mm L/56 AA Gun (German FlaK18)
Field, Medium, and Heavy Artillery
Artillery
•75mm L/19 Field Howitzer
•85mm L/35 Schneider Field Gun (French)
•105mm L/19 Field Howitzer
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (Tanks, Armoured Cars, Carriers) used by the Greek Army:
•AFVs of the Greek Army
Other Vehicles & Equipment used by the Greek Army:
•Italian Pavesi (Heavy) Artillery Tractor
Most info was taken from this site:
http://ww2greece.wargaming.info/index.htm
About the Grass Rifle: http://greek-war-equipment.blogspot.com/2009/06/gras-rifle.html#comment-form
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hehe, greek army would be great for NML, Hotchkiss, St. Etienne etc. But, as wrote Panzergeneral, did they use Schwarzlose? It was Austro-hungarian.
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hehe, greek army would be great for NML, Hotchkiss, St. Etienne etc. But, as wrote Panzergeneral, did they use Schwarzlose? It was Austro-hungarian.
yes they purchased some and there were talks back then to make a pure Hellenic machinegun but it was found to be too costy at the time i guess and they simply kept that old gun. and yes it is originated from Austria Hungary and i am positive about it's use by Hellenic Forces.
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hehe, greek army would be great for NML, Hotchkiss, St. Etienne etc. But, as wrote Panzergeneral, did they use Schwarzlose? It was Austro-hungarian.
yes they purchased some and there were talks back then to make a pure Hellenic machinegun but it was found to be too costy at the time i guess and they simply kept that old gun. and yes it is originated from Austria Hungary and i am positive about it's use by Hellenic Forces.
Thanks for info!
And the Mannlicher-Schönauer was type of Mannlicher (again A-H) rifle with other design purchased just to Greece, yep?
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yeah they did a few modifications and changes to best suit them but it was still an Mannlicher
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good idea's you guys have.
I found a tekst in one of my books about a Itallian MINETROWER and the picture was a bit bad but it lookt like some sort of mortar (perhaps a Brixia Model 35 but I am not sure). Do you know something about that weapon? Its usability and Effectiveness are unclear to me. ???
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A "minethrower" is the same thing as a mortar, just a more archaic name for it. The Brixia was very fast firing, but very weak for a mortar.
Anyways, the main prob with getting the greeks ingame is that they would need full character models, statics, planes (gladiator), hand weapons, voices, etc; as well as the italians needing tankettes, falco biplane, etc. Remember, the italan army has never been a finished army ingame, and prob won't be for a long time.
So basically you'd be creating 2 full armies for what, 1 map, 2 maps? And oh yeah, the maps take a year to develop.
Sorry, but the devs aren't gonna be getting to the greek army for a long time, if ever. Just the nature of the beast.
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Well thinking about FH1 who got Finns and many other countries i was hoping that they would touch others in FH2 like Greece/China maybe even Spanish Civil war...Besides the only real difference in Winter war and the Greco-Italian war is the voices and the guns...Snow existed on both ;D.
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Main reason we got those was because there was a LOT already done for us in BF1942. They were building on a WW2 mod. Also, quality was not an immediate concern as it is now, early FH1 builds used vanilla models and such.
Meanwhile, for FH2, everything is built from ground up except a few usable statics. Its a much harder thing to do ;) And remember, FH2 might never be finished. The mod team might (hopefully won't) close down. They might move on to another engine for FH3 in a few years. We don't know :P
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FH3 is a bit far in the future and the devs are still working on FH2.
also FH3 may or may not be using the BF series depending on what it needs
for the moment the devs should focus on FH2, and we should support them.
there will be a time for a sequel but the hour is yet to early for that.
all we can do for now is to wish the best for those people who has worked so hard and sacrificed time,energy,sweat,blood and tears for this project.
and well there is a good chance the Italy VS Greece Campaign maps and other stuff will come at a later release.
we just need to have patience.
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No, there really isn't a good chance of that. There's a far greater chance of the Ostfront.
And the only thing I said about FH3 is that if the dev team still exists, that would happen before a Grecian army.
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So tempting to say get the heck out now.
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perhaps, nothing is pre determined beforehand so do not be surprised if something completely different to your expectations occur.
if you think my arguments and posts are dumb,vauge lacks information or volition be free to tell me to get the heck out and i will never again post anything new or do any replies even when i got something good.
..... ???
Vonmudra,Nobody here ever said your posts are dumb, lack information violated anything. Vonmudra just stated that their by far will be a chance that we ever see this.
You suggested something nice and possible. By a very small chance..but possible. Many people have suggested/posted FAR more stupid and dumb ideas. Like a pershing on current normandy maps, or the one of the many other classic suggestions.
Or ridicolous balance suggestions...
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you can always scramble a team and do what the "French hope" team is doing for FH2.
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GREECE M34-39
Italian-made shells, supplied unfinished to Greece just before WW2 (1939), where they were fitted with Greek-made liners.
http://www.gostak.demon.co.uk/helmets/greece.htm
I have one of those helmets :D . Only thing i am lacking to be a fully equipped ww2 soldier is the uniform as i also have the rifle.
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I'll bet that if a talented team of enthusiasts puts together playermodels, weapons, statics, etc. and especially maps needed for a new front, all meeting both the technical and quality requirements of FH2, then properly apply for their work to be included, the developers will at the very least consider including it in the official build. Tournament maps and tournament minimods are another thing, but aside from those, the only efforts approaching this kind of commitment that I have seen are the French Hope, and the NML modmod (which has official developers partaking).
We have the problem of dozens of people asking for a particular army or battle to be included, and only a limited number of developers, who can only concentrate on a limited number of fronts at a time (read: one in production and one or two in preproduction). Even if the devs bring out a new front once a year, the math is against the likelihood of ever including all the requested armies. Unless, of course, many new people learn to model, code and map on a sufficiently high quality level and apply for their work to be included in FH2.
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I tried...But i can't find how the eff to import Skeletons in the frigging 3ds max....I tried with videos but my 3ds seems it cannot recognize them...So i cannot build player models...As for weapons i have no idea how i could as i dont know what needs to be done and how...
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Well most of Greece was already pretty much free before the German retreat mainly due to Guerrilla warfare.
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The hell does that have to do with anything being discussed here....
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The hell does that have to do with anything being discussed here....
Absolutely nothing...
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The Italian Army consisted mostly of incomplete divisions. This means that that every division had a poor amount of Tanks, aircraft and artillery. So they where un able to fight with full effect against the enemy armies. Another problem was there strategy and the organization, when they attack ( 1940) the Creeks trough the moutons they had no winter suits and the wrong maps. And When Wavell attack them in 1940 in Africa, there divisions where unable to support each other or mount effective counter attacks. The Italian Amy had also a lot of supply problems, this demoralized the men en by 1941 there army needed al the help of there German ‘’Friends’’. The British made many jokes about the Italian because of there poor behavior in the war. Even the Germans started to insult them and Josef Goebels even had to forbid the German newspapers to Ride bad thing about them. By 1943 there moral was gone and in Africa large groups surrenderd without a fight, that same year the Italians broke there alliance with Germany and removed Mussolini from his position.
The Italian army did some heroic work at the last stage of the battle of Gazzela in 1943. At Operation Crussader the Itallian ‘’Ariete Division’’ held the strong attack of the Brittish 22 Tank brigade ( 18 novermber 1941). And of course at the ‘’SIEGE OF GIARABUB’’ the Italian did a good job.
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True
The Italians where not always bad. there Soldiers fought wel, but without supplies or strong weapons even the bravest fighter can't win. ;)
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Its invain if it dint had effect......
Take all those japanese kamikaze's. 2800 of them gave their lives. 34 Navy ships where sunk, damaged 368 others, killed 4,900 sailors, and wounded over 4,800. Sad results, but did not affected the war at all.
all wasted lives.............
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why hello their my petit choufleur
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/100719/cannone47.jpg)
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all wasted lives.............
Every life lost because of war is waste ;)
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all wasted lives.............
Every life lost because of war is waste ;)
Indeed and dont go offtopic now that we have italian bias
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Now we just need the Carcano Sniper and Breda AA gun to get a full (but positive) Italian BIASSSS!!!
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Dude, seriously, how many times do the tales of the Carcano sniper have to be told? If we get a Carcano sniper then Italy will not even get a sniper kit to pick up, thats how rare they where and are.
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Dude, seriously, how many times do the tales of the Carcano sniper have to be told? If we get a Carcano sniper then Italy will not even get a sniper kit to pick up, thats how rare they where and are.
Well,the StG44 ZF is also rare and it´s used " a lot"...
Oh wait...the StG44 ZF was never issu...
Seriously,I think that is not a valid point...
If a dev did a Carcano Sniper I am sure it would be used!
Well,let´s just hope for a Breda 20mm then!!
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Thats because someone felt like making it and some mappers apparently like it on their maps.
As for the Carcano, it's a rifle originally made for FH1.
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GIVA Die saluute! to da grando italian truck!
(http://www.azreal64.com/fh2/110227/af626.jpg)
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Heila Mussolini!
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just a clarification for this old thread. As far as I found Italians did not use rifle grenades in the war, they were used before the war and during ww1. Also the smoke grenade was not yellow but red. The Yellow color means it was for practice.
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Don't forget the Italian Bandages. :P
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Italian bandage:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uw9CQVXKCnk/TRGojCrWnFI/AAAAAAAABYw/QjVZl2eOCWo/s1600/grappa.jpg)
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We need that! ;D
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and after drinking we have italian melee weapon!
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hey guys, what do you think of create a team of developers for make an italian minimod like the "French hope"?
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hey guys, what do you think of create a team of developers for make an italian minimod like the "French hope"?
Provide us the team :)
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Don't talk about greece... some people will be excited ;D
But it will be nice
Italy vs France (ho wait... French could do that. no? :P)
Italy vs USA
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No! Since Greece has been proposed then Greece is the way to go!
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do want greece for Mannlicher schoenaur
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thank you for your insightful post, I had no idea.
hey guys, what do you think of create a team of developers for make an italian minimod like the "French hope"?
just apply directly to the devs if you got talent, no need for minimod
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Do we gonna see any Autocannone in Africa or even a SdKfz 6/1 Diana ?
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Do we gonna see any Autocannone in Africa or even a SdKfz 6/1 Diana ?
thats italian right??
Correct Italian AA gun is the 20mm Breda 35.
Also let us not forget the Canone 75 and 90 Dual purpose AA guns. With the italian troops, these where common, so maps should have at least one of the 2
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Autocannone is just a short name for any gun on truck in Italian Army ...
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3048/it7508.jpg)
I wish to see that with 102 mm gun from battle of Bir el Gubi , where they just massacred a poor pack of Crusader tanks ;D
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With cool addition of the Fiat 626,this thread could be interesting.
I keep in mind the devs have other prorities with BotB, but to complete the vehicles of Regio Esercito in NA would only need the 3 following vehicles and 4 static weapons (IMO the most produced/important for each category).
-M11/39 in Bardia
-Carro Veloce L3/33 or 35 in Bardia,Tobruk and Sidi Rezegh.
-Fiat 508 C.M. in Bardia,Tobruk,Sidi Rezegh (and Giarabub as static instead of VW).
-Cannone da 90/53 in Bardia (instead of FlaK 18).
-Breda modello 35 in Sidi Rezegh and Op. Hyacinth (in both airfield,could be used against infantry).
-Mortaio Brixia mod.35 as pick up kit and/or -Mortaio da 81 mm mod. 35.
-Cannone da 75/27 mod.11 and/or -Cannone da 105/28 mod.12.
About adding italian vehicles in Gazala and El-Alamein,I remember a dev. saying that adding new stuff to that maps would cause CTD. (that's why i don't include the Autoblinda 41, M14/41, and Semovente da 75/18).
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About adding italian vehicles in Gazala and El-Alamein,I remember a dev. saying that adding new stuff to that maps would cause CTD. (that's why i don't include the Autoblinda 41, M14/41, and Semovente da 75/18).
It can be done, but then other vehicles should be removed frst.
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Autocannone is just a short name for any gun on truck in Italian Army ...
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3048/it7508.jpg)
I wish to see that with 102 mm gun from battle of Bir el Gubi , where they just massacred a poor pack of Crusader tanks ;D
there is no such thing as a 102mm gun
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Strange ... so there wasn't any of Fiat 634 Autocannone da 102/35 Milmart ...
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9958/autoh.jpg)
Poor british soldiers ... their was just fighting with some desert mirages ...
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You speak in words of axis bias ;D ;D
stupid English wikipedia and sources
italian wiki is so expanded
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As far as I know not many of these type of trucks were made, but not much italian equipment was made in large amounts.
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As far as I know not many of these type of trucks were made, but not much italian equipment was made in large amounts.
actually fiat produced quite many trucks. The italians mounted everything on trucks. AA guns
Even the 90mm was once mounted on a truck
It was still far more common then the Puma ;)
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The italian army in africa's artillery was completly motorized, and many were mounted portepee style. It was one of the few real edges the italians had in the war, and the british resoundingly complimented the quality of italian artillery and its gunners even in 1940.
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Oh that is a combination I like... Artillery and Italians... Damn, so much win. I just hope such dreams would become a reality at some point. I'd really like a proper italian map with loads of italian equipment. Sure we have three italian maps right now but all of them focus to infantry.
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Yep. A proper italian map with everything
-Infantry=Check!
-Armoured fighting vehicles=missing armoured cars autoblinda for example and Lince
-Transport vehicles=Fiat 648!CHECK!
-Artillery=Needs stationary artillery. The question is wich gun.
Some suggestions=
Or since the british have the 25 pounder, perhaps this gun=
Cannone da 75/32. A Field gun (http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/weapons/Italian-art-75-32.jpg)
In the artillery branche we also have Anti-aircraft artillery.In wich we need=
Breda 35 20mm (Stationary as on trucks)
2 possible Dual purpose guns. The italians where know to have very good ones=
Cannone Da 75/46 Modello 34 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_75/46_C.A._modello_34)
Cannone Da 95/53. One of the best heavy AA guns of the war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_90/53)
Aircraft=
Fighters=The most common aircraft in almost equal numbers where
Macchi C 200 Saetta
Macchi C 202 Folgore(model already ingame as static)
Fiat G.50 Freccia
Ground attack aircraft=
SM 79 Sparviero
Breda 65(For up to 1941 maps)
Mostly the artillery and aircraft that are missing. What few people dont know, that the Italian airforce was actually quite active in the North africa theathre
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+1 for MOAR Italian bias!
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Would be really nice to see a big combined arms map with Italians.
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Obice da 105/14. Italian 105mm howitzer. Designed during WW1, some like this one where moderinzed with pneumatic tires (http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/47/7f/d8/io-con-obice-105-14.jpg)
Thats an OTO Melara Modello 56 Pack Howitzer.
I don't think the Italians adopted any 105mm Howitzers until after WW2.
The Italian counterpart to the leFH 18 would be Obice da 100/17.
(http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/weapons/Italian-art-100-17.jpg)
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Shitty google giving me the wrong pictures
Oh well,100mm,105mm it doesnt matter
the italians need field artillery, thats what matters
if only a magic fairy appeared and she granted us people to make more italian stuff :-[ :'(
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As far as I know not many of these type of trucks were made, but not much italian equipment was made in large amounts.
actually fiat produced quite many trucks. The italians mounted everything on trucks. AA guns
Even the 90mm was once mounted on a truck
It was still far more common then the Puma ;)
many trucks yes, but the issue was how many guns were mounted on them
57 were ordered to be mounted on heavy trucks designated autocannoni da 90/53 -wikipedia
90 90/53 on Lancia 3RO & Breda 51 completed by 43 - italie1935-45.com
~16 100/17 on Lancia 3RO - italie1935-45.com
no info on 102/35 or 105/35 but couldnt have been more than the lesser calibres
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Only 100 pumas where made, it is in FH2 ;) ;)
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Also its about usage, not numbers. Those trucks saw non-stop combat, and were used exceedingly well.
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Hey im not complaining. The more italian stuff, the better
i wouldnt mind seeing more truck based stuff aswel
Many german truck stuff
Many british truck stuff( triple oerlikons on morris trucks, Bofors on morris trucks, these 2 where the most common Self propelled AA guns in Normandy)
MOAR
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Don't we need this?
(http://i.imgur.com/MqqYz.jpg)
Most common 'tank' for italians I believe. We could have both the mg version and the 20mm one :)
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Italians had tons of these, I think! And a whole lot of other axis satelite states
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Don't laugh, though. The Polish 20 mm TKS tankettes destroyed a bunch on Panzer III's during Fall Weiß :)
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And a single TKS 20mm destroyed 12 german tanks, including one PZIV
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Holy crap that gunner was good!
I guess they could be effective being so small and so low to the ground. Plus a 20mm gun isn't one to be laughed at.
Would be nice for Italians to have this and Germans to have the Panzer I. It'd be awesome to have maps with tanks on each side only being light tanks - Vickers vs. P1 and L3/33s. Also Vickers with 15mm Besa please :D
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(http://i.imgur.com/MqqYz.jpg)
GNR ?? it's Guns'N Roses !!! XD
New italian stuff is always a good thing, since it's the only non-complete faction. But now devs will work on Ostfront. Italians fought on this front if I remember but probably that devs will focuses on Russians and Germans...
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Plus the Greeks used a couple of captured of those ;D
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IIRC, the 20mm version of the italian Cv33 was nationalist spanish, not italian. They only used the MG and the flamethrower versions.
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(http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/3ad1500/en/fixed/470/344/Captured_L3_and_L3_cc_tankettes.jpg?format=jpg)
A captured L3 cc 20mm (on the left) and an L3/35 (on the right) outside Bardia in 1941.
dont know bardia is in spain :o
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Bardia is in eastren libya
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(http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/3ad1500/en/fixed/470/344/Captured_L3_and_L3_cc_tankettes.jpg?format=jpg)
A captured L3 cc 20mm (on the left) and an L3/35 (on the right) outside Bardia in 1941.
dont know bardia is in spain :o
o.=.O I stand corrected.
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yeah i know but vm says no l3 20mm fight in north afrca ;)
cv 33 /35 are the same for me :P
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so where's MAH CV 33
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Hoping new italian weapons (smoke grenade, cv 35, new grenades, etc...)
Here some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_90/53 (aa cannon used also in at role like german 88)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:El_Alamein10.jpg (90/53 image)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_M11/39 (tank used until 1940)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L3/35 (this was used in the italian landing in crete and in greece for anti infantry role)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/CV-33_Flamethrower_1_Bovington_mod.jpg (flamethrower version of cv33)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obice_da_149/19_modello_37 (149/19 cannon)
http://i30.tinypic.com/beigzb.jpg (image of 149/19)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M15/42_tank (tank used since 1943 in african campaign and in italy defense)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_75/18 (best italian armor used since 1941)
This is a small part of italian weapons and vehicles. If you are interested, i am an expert of italy in ww2 and i can help you with a lot of information =D
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Thats a british 5.5 inch BL medium gun ;)
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what about this... the Semovente 90/53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_90/53 its the 90mm Tank destroyer used.. i dont think ive seen it suggested yet... apparently saw action in africa.
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2s8hj4p.jpg)
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Would be good for an italian-centric Tunisia map, plus an eventual Italian campaign.
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Would be good for an italian-centric Tunisia map, plus an eventual Italian campaign.
gazala?
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That's eastern Libya, not Tunisia....
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i was just suggesting a battle to throw it in since the axis have a hard time against grants here n there.. would be nice to see it there.. would be a fun little giant whoop ass machine.
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It wasn't there though. That thing didn't actually reach the battlefield until 1943. :P
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Could replace the marder III on Mareth. That map already has the sahariana anyway. They can also bring back some Italian infantry kits like they had in the first version of mareth back in 2.1.
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Don't kill me if this has already been discussed. But I think at least one more face mesh/texture for the italian team would be good. Its a little weird seeing an army of clones of the same moustached guy.
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Could replace the marder III on Mareth. That map already has the sahariana anyway. They can also bring back some Italian infantry kits like they had in the first version of mareth back in 2.1.
Correct.(on both things)
Should we ever see some italian Dual purposed guns, we can always see them on the static role aswel
Both the 75mm as 90mm where used alot
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indeed, but I'd certainly like the obice da 102, powerful, and as apt to destroy a matilda as a 88
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Um, the 90mm would have had higher velocity, and be even more apt to do so...it was superior to the 88mm....
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the 88 was the most deployed DP gun, but defiantly not the best ye
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Could replace the marder III on Mareth. That map already has the sahariana anyway. They can also bring back some Italian infantry kits like they had in the first version of mareth back in 2.1.
Correct.(on both things)
Should we ever see some italian Dual purposed guns, we can always see them on the static role aswel
Both the 75mm as 90mm where used alot
id rather see the mobile version on the tank and or truck.. would be much better then having static..
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Um, the 90mm would have had higher velocity, and be even more apt to do so...it was superior to the 88mm....
in terms of gun, yes.. in terms of optics and aiming devices.. no (reliable yet less accurate) ::) what good is the cannon now? vs the 88 ::)
oh well, no point discussing it.. like all the historians everywhere.. they have diff views on everything.. :P
but we deff need more italian maps!
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Um, the 90mm would have had higher velocity, and be even more apt to do so...it was superior to the 88mm....
in terms of gun, yes.. in terms of optics and aiming devices.. no (reliable yet less accurate) ::) what good is the cannon now? vs the 88 ::)
oh well, no point discussing it.. like all the historians everywhere.. they have diff views on everything.. :P
but we deff need more italian maps!
The 90mm's optics where great, the 90mm's aiming devices where not as advanced AS the 88's. BUT the 88mm aiming devices where MUCH more unreliable then the 90mm
90mm Cannone was much better then 88 on all levels. Bury that german bias of yours!
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oh yeah,opctics where great, im sure you have used it ::)
every source claims its much better in its AA purpous, not stating its AT and that it got less accurate eqipument on it.
then again the tankdestroyer thing on it got produced in such a small number and only deployed in NA, dont know if it got slightly deployed in italy.. so you cant really compare that to thousands and thousands of 88's ::)
either way, id rather use an accurate gun... *rests my case* ::)
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You're case sucks and has bad arguments ;)
Read=
Though often overshadowed by the more famous German 8.8 cm Flak 36, the Cannone da 90/53 was undoubtedly one of the finest anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns of World War II, possessing several advantages over its German counterpart.
The 90/53 used a single-piece barrel instead if the two-piece barrel of the 8.8cm, simplifying production.
The 90/53 fired a larger shell: 90mm 10.33kg compared to 88mm 9.2kg of the Flak 36 8.8cm.
The 90/53 had a higher muzzle velocity of 840 m/s, compared to 790 m/s.
The 90/53 had a longer range of 12,000 m against 10600 m, though the Flak 36 was rarely effective above 7,900 m.
Though the 90/53 lacked the sophisticated fire control systems of the later 8.8cm models, in use these systems proved troublesome and unreliable, while the less sophisticated fire control system of the 90/53 was found to be highly reliable, though not as accurate.
So in the anti-aircraft role, it was less accurate. It doesnt say it had Terrible accuracy.
Higher muzzle velocity, heavier shell. Clearly much better Armor penetration then the Flak 88.
everyone agrees(exept you)=Cannone 90mm>88mm Flak 36
Italian bias ftw!
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If it was so much better I think the Germans would've used it. Since they produced thousands of 88s and not 90s....?
Besides, the 88mm already drilled everything in and out so why even bother with a factory conversion when you already have what you need?
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oh, because heavier shells is a pluss? no ::)
as i said, i aint discussings its AA capabilities, sure it was better!
it was used as an AT gun occasionaly, its primary task was AA. not like the 88 wich where constructed for both rather quickly when they figured out it was great for both duties.
now, you can wikiwhore as much as you want, but i stand my ground for my personal opinion on the 88's AT capabilites :)
- less shell weight = less stamina loss = faster reload times (we all know how fast an trained 88crew can reload :o )
- more accurate aiming devices, yet more complicated. learned pretty quickly anyway
- massive numbers compared to the 90mm
- penetration enough that could knock out more or less every tank it faced (not all ofcourse), no real need for more, other guns for those duties.
- flak37/41 velocity
HE - 1000m/s range 20000m
AP - 980m/s range 12350-14700m 159mm@1000m vs 90/53 100mm@500m(0°)
and i still rest my case ::)
wow, this discussion really sat me off... ;D no hard feelings theta?<3
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The 90mm is still a better DP gun ;)
Its just as everyone says all german tanks are better then allied ones ;)
YOU CANT WIN! GIVE UP!
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in what way? ::)
the flak 37/41
could do it all better But the AA purpous.
its kinda.... more like a draw ;)
Rock beats scissor ;D
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Should kinda add the numbers and kill counts...
I think it makes a slight difference
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in what way? ::)
the flak 37/41
could do it all better But the AA purpous.
its kinda.... more like a draw ;)
Rock beats scissor ;D
How bout we say....just add them all? ;D
The more artillery the better!
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Does anyone have any info on this rifle grenade cup for the M91?
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8480/dsc00060mb.jpg)
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4610/dsc00063ik.jpg)
It's a M43 grenade launcher.
no it's a "tromboncino cal. 30 mm" for "bertone" grenade use in ww2 by italian soldiers
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I think the things are important to get an standalone Italian army
small arms
wz35 ATR
Tanks
CV 35 \
M11/39 > for 1940/41 Maps
Autoblinda Lancia I.Z. /
Semovente 75/18
AB 41
Jeeps/Commandocars
Fiat Model AS 37 or
Fiat Model 42
Artillery
Mortaio da 81/14 Mod. 35 mortar
Cannone da 105/28
90mm AA
20mm AA Breda
maybe a fieldgun
Cannone da 75/32
Airplanes
Fiat Cr 42 as Scoutplane, fighter, light bomber
Mc 202
Ju 87
:)
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I think the things are important to get an standalone Italian army
small arms
wz35 ATR
Tanks
CV 35
M11/39
Semovente 75/18
AB 41
Jeeps
Fiat Model AS 37 or
Fiat Model 42
Artillery
Mortaio da 81/14 Mod. 35 mortar
Cannone da 105/28
90mm AA
20mm AA Breda
maybe a fieldgun
Cannone da 75/32
Airplanes
Fiat Cr 42 as Scoutplane, fighter, light bomber
Mc 202
Ju 87
:)
i want also "Cannone da 150 mm" and Sm79 bomber! =)
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I want to learn Modelling now :(
I shall stay away from this Thread.
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Did italians ever attatch scopes to the carcanos ?
(yes I know carcano was rubbish but still...)
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Wha.. the Carcano is one of the most accurate rifles ever. Kennedy was shot with one, you know.
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Did italians ever attatch scopes to the carcanos ?
(yes I know carcano was rubbish but still...)
I have seen exactly one carcano that was converted to carry a sniper scope. And that was not a WW2 era pic, twas a modern find. So as far as is known, the italians made next to no use of snipers in the war.
That said, Thorondor is right, the carcano is a very good rifle....
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Wha.. the Carcano is one of the most accurate rifles ever. Kennedy was shot with one, you know.
yes , 3 headshots at well beyond the max range of the rifle. Apparently...
im kidding , I know its apparently a decent weapon. I JUST WANT TO PRETEND IM LEE HARVEY ON GIARABUB IN BOOK DEPOS.... I MEAN TOWER.
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Well beyond? Dude, the range was less than 100m IIRC...the Carcano was accurate to 1000 yards+, like all other rifles of the era, without using a scope.
lol, ok then :P
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The yearly NATO rifle competition is still seeing the italians entering with carcano's
and they always get in the top and even won several times
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Did italians ever attatch scopes to the carcanos ?
(yes I know carcano was rubbish but still...)
I have seen exactly one carcano that was converted to carry a sniper scope. And that was not a WW2 era pic, twas a modern find. So as far as is known, the italians made next to no use of snipers in the war.
not exactly. italians had some snipers in ww2, but they are only 3500-4000 in ww2
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no it's a "tromboncino cal. 30 mm" for "bertone" grenade use in ww2 by italian soldiers
Are you sure? Because every where I read that ww1 era rifle grenades were not used becuase they damaged the rifles.
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no it's a "tromboncino cal. 30 mm" for "bertone" grenade use in ww2 by italian soldiers
Are you sure? Because every where I read that ww1 era rifle grenades were not used becuase they damaged the rifles.
i'm sure. i read this on an italian forum of weapons experts
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it's a late war gl version afaik
and yes italian had a scope for carcano but never fully produced like the other army scope.
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no it's a "tromboncino cal. 30 mm" for "bertone" grenade use in ww2 by italian soldiers
Are you sure? Because every where I read that ww1 era rifle grenades were not used becuase they damaged the rifles.
i'm sure. i read this on an italian forum of weapons experts
ok, but was it common?
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Doesnt matter, italians need rifle grenade
even if it is pickupkit
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Italians Need Greeks to be against them.
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you wont get those greeks >_>
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ok, but was it common?
[/quote]
yes, i think.
here some photos of cv33 flame thrower (model).
(http://www.apmodels-centro1-72.com/CV010A.JPG)
(http://www.apmodels-centro1-72.com/CV010B.JPG)
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Hello ,
I have reinstalled FH2 recently and I am glad to see that some improvements
have been made to the Italians. I really enjoy playing maps such as Bardia and
I managed to find the size 64 map for SP.
A Beda Fomm map exists but will not work for SP is there one for SP? It would be great to include the
Autoblinda AB 40/41 or expand the SP Maps to the Invasion Of Sicily. Also a map with Repubblica Sociale Italiana(RSI) forces in Operation Winter Storm now that would be great very few games include RSI Forces.
This is a fantastic Mod and my congratulations to all concerned. Also not
Forgetting the fans who add their own mini mods etc that really enhance
the game.
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That is late CV 33 Lf ... i prefer earlier models , looking like mini Crocodile tank 8)
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Italy/Ita-CV33-FlameOn.jpg
And dont forget , there was two guns - one was a flamethrower and second was a Breda MG . Both coaxed . So much fun than in Wasp Carrrier ;D
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Yes they look awesome ;D
but the CV33 lF did not saw action in North africa. barely
the CV 35 lF did
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Since we haven´t the great Italien Front there´s not really space for more Italien Tanks.
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becarefull with those words Kratzer!
Before you know it, you'll have half the FH2 community against you!
*loads his carcano, polishes his breda and pours olive oil in his Carro armato
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several things for the german-italian army used in NA, such as the AB 41 as scoutcar, semovente 75/18, M14/41 or other things that you can used for the existing maps like Gazala =/
the early stuff is not so very important, because you haven´t big Maps for italy only for the time 40 early 41.
only the very small infantry-maps Bardia and Siege of Giarabub :(
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several things for the german-italian army used in NA, such as the AB 41 as scoutcar, semovente 75/18, M14/41 or other things that you can used for the existing maps like Gazala =/
the early stuff is not so very important, because you haven´t big Maps for italy only for the time 40 early 41.
only the very small infantry-maps Bardia and Siege of Giarabub :(
El alamein also
and mareth line
And Alam halfa
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If M13/40 and Semovente L/40 were ported from FH1, could the Semovente 75/18 be ported as well?
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yeah it would be very good to have as Axis. you only have the P IV D/F1 which will be danger frontal for the Grant in 41 early 42 Maps.
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List of things truly missing in FH2's Italian army
Tanks=
Carre Armato M11/39
Carre Armato M14/41 (Common in late africa, good for El alamein)
Armoured cars=
Autoblinda 41
Lince armoured car
SP Guns=
Semovente da 75/18
Semovente M 41M da 90/53
Artillery=
Brixia Model 35 (45MM high rate of fire Mortar)
Cannone da 47/32 M35 (Should be main AT gun, it wassent great but usefull against both Cruiser/light tanks and Infantery)
Cannone da 75/32 modello 37( Could be main field gun)
Cannone da 75/46 C.A. modello 34 (Dual purpose gun, not really comparable in firepower to the Flak18)
Cannone da 90/53 (The best Dual purpose gun of World war 2)
These where the common Italian equipment of WW2.
I suggested these things before, and Flippy is right. Their are higher priority things first
Anti-Aircraft guns=
Cannone-Mitragliera da 29/65 modello 35 (Breda) 20mm anti-aircraft gun,
comparable to the German Flak 38 AA gun.
I quote from Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II. PG 164, 1998.
One of the two standard Italian 20-mm AA guns was the weapon known the Italian Army was the gun mentioned above.
It was first manufactured in 1934 by the Societa Italiana Ernesto Breda of Brescia, a company that was no stranger to weapon production.
20mm Scotti or Cannone-Mitragliera da 20/77 (Scotti)
The Scotti was the other AA gun used by the Italian Army during World War II. Also known as the Mitragliera Isotta Fraschini from the manufacturing facility where it came from.
It was initially made by Oerlikon in Switzerland.
Page 163, Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, ISBN 1-58663-762-2.
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Let us also, however, not forget the Fiat-Revelli 1914 and 1935 Machine guns.
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Since the Fiat Truck was in Developing i´m searching for Fiat Gauges (Speedometer blah blah)
also who has nice pics pls show´em to me ;D
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damn I was sure I had a pic that I already posted but I cant find it anymore :'(
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What do you think about an italian medal??
Medaglia commemorativa della campagna italo-tedesca in Africa/ITALIENISCH-DEUTSCHER FELDZUG IN AFRIKA
Commemorative medal of the Italo-German campaign in Africa
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/9231/campagnaitalotedescac.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5130/senzaolo1is.jpg
Was given from 1942 by the Fascist party both to German or Italian who fought in North africa...
it will be a nice archivement...
Adictional info at this link
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H016263.html
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How about a medal for servicing FIATs?!
That you get for repairing a certain amount of FIAT trucks!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47ULOksnAY
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Seriously now. Don't know if devs are going to improve and add more medals to the award system, but i think its a good idea.
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How about a medal for servicing FIATs?!
That you get for repairing a certain amount of FIAT trucks!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47ULOksnAY
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Seriously now. Don't know if devs are going to improve and add more medals to the award system, but i think its a good idea.
Buta OFCOURSE
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<- Only this man will get a Fiat Medal =D
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And he's earned it.
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How about a medal for servicing FIATs?!
That you get for repairing a certain amount of FIAT trucks!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47ULOksnAY
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Seriously now. Don't know if devs are going to improve and add more medals to the award system, but i think its a good idea.
well... survive to the fiat industries, with all the fingers, is sure a big record!!
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Bumping this thread just to say that the Breda Modello 30 needs an overhaul. The iron sights are off as soon as you move them, and bullets comes out from top left of the screen instead of the muzzle. uploaded a vid to show it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeyDz91HkVI
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idk why but that Italian MG has always been a piece of shit lol
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idk why but that Italian MG has always been a piece of shit lol
I concur. I hate mag or clip machine guns. I prefer belt fed.
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That's part of its charm though. You love it BECAUSE its a piece of shit! :)
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ok, but was it common?
yes, i think.
here some photos of cv33 flame thrower (model).
(http://www.apmodels-centro1-72.com/CV010A.JPG)
(http://www.apmodels-centro1-72.com/CV010B.JPG)
[/quote]
I know the italians are awesome, but thats some really fuckin ugly camo
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If you move through a field of roses, that cammo is great!
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What the Italians really need is not more trucks or jeeps, they need tanks. BETTER TANKS. Some planes would be nice also.
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Better tanks like what? Better assault guns would be possible, but I am afraid we have reached the upper end of Italian tanks.
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Better tanks like what? Better assault guns would be possible, but I am afraid we have reached the upper end of Italian tanks.
Semovente 90/53?
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Tanks =/= SPGs.
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Get it right!
GEEZ!
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Tanks =/= SPGs.
I know what a self propelled gun are; but people recognize the word more as "tank" than the other term. But anyway, we need that spg.
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(http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Images/1-Vehicles(bis)/Italy/04-SPG/Semovente-M42(75-18)/p1.jpg)
Semovente 75/18: 765 built. could also appear at El-Alamein and in Tunisia. the only italian SPG at the time that had a chance fighting of allied heavier tanks. we need this thing.
If we ever get an italy map i think these tanks would be cool, however the number of the vehciles constructed is very low, and they werent always used by the italians:
(http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Images/1-Vehicles(bis)/Italy/04-SPG/Semovente-M43(105-25)/p1.jpg)
"The Semovente 105/25 was an Italian tank destroyer in use during World War II. It was constructed by mounting a 105 mm gun that was 25 calibers long (hence the name) in a widened chassis from a M15/42 tank. 30 were built by Fiat-Ansaldo and delivered in 1943 before the Italian surrender in September that year. After the surrender the German forces took them over and used them under the designation Sturmgeschütz M43 mit 105/25 853(i) and they also built 60 more Semovente 105/25s. This vehicle is considered the best AFV Italy produced during the war."
(http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Images/1-Vehicles(bis)/Italy/03-HeavyTanks/P.40/p1.jpg)
P40: "Despite its shortcomings, the P40 was the only Italian tank design that was comparable to Allied and German medium tanks as they appeared in the middle of the war. With a weight of around 25-30 tonnes, the P40 was designated as a 'heavy' tank in Italy, but by contemporary international standards, it was a medium tank (situation quite similar to the Panzer IV)." However only aobut 100 were built and then use by the germans at anzio for example. nothing for north afrika.
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What the Italians really need is not more trucks or jeeps, they need tanks. BETTER TANKS. Some planes would be nice also.
Tssss stupid?
First they need a base, Italians driving blitz and Kuebel looks stupid.
And they have enough Tanks for the Maps they are fighting on.
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Italians now first need=
-Artillery (I would suggest Obice Da 75/18 modello 34, because it also has HEAT shells, it was also used by the british on the battle of crete)
-AA weapon (20mm Breda)
-Semovente 75
-Aircraft
-Armoured cars
Then other tanks can be added, but adding M14 wont really have much affect, next to more speed. Same armor and gun as M13/40
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Your missing one key thing here, yet again.
Italians need:
- A map to put all these things on
Also, the reason why the Breda Modello 30 is a piece of shit is because it was a piece of shit.
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Your missing one key thing here, yet again.
Italians need:
- A map to put all these things on
An italian sector of El alamein. Pretty much all the stuff we have listed above was used there
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Your missing one key thing here, yet again.
Italians need:
- A map to put all these things on
An italian sector of El alamein. Pretty much all the stuff we have listed above was used there
You want to push even more vehicles on El Alamein?.. Or are you saying that there should be more Italian maps? Sure there should be but sadly people fancy new fronts more than maps that actually matter. Italian Power!
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Your missing one key thing here, yet again.
Italians need:
- A map to put all these things on
An italian sector of El alamein. Pretty much all the stuff we have listed above was used there
You want to push even more vehicles on El Alamein?.. Or are you saying that there should be more Italian maps? Sure there should be but sadly people fancy new fronts more than maps that actually matter. Italian Power!
The current el alamein map holds Kidney ridge and to the south militaryie ridge. The ridge was occupied by italian forces yes
BUT what i wanted to suggest, was the southern sector at the munassib depression
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/2_Battle_of_El_Alamein_001.png
This was solely occupied by italian forces. And ton the north the FJ Ramcke. (Yes german troops)
After the british take several flag, Italian reinforcements spawn wich is the 132 Ariete devision. Wich bravely did a counterattack allowing the Afrika corps to escape.
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Free French Forces vs Italians anyone? Would be a battle of pure awesome-equipment vs awesome-equipment!
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Free French Forces vs Italians anyone? Would be a battle of pure awesome-equipment vs awesome-equipment!
French hope can help here with there Free french forces
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Replace some P3s with some capable Italian tanks. Problem solved.
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Replace some P3s with some capable Italian tanks. Problem solved.
i think putting new italian stuff in between the german stuff on el alamein isnt the best idea. it is balanced well atm. and i wouldnt like it to be changed except maybe for churchills and 88s just for the sake of realism.
also the pIII should be a common tank/ the standard tank on el alamein, so replacing some of them will make them a rare tank on that map.
better make an italian sector of el alamein and give the axis some italian pickup kits on the southern ridge on the current el alamein.
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Replace some P3s with some capable Italian tanks. Problem solved.
problem. there aren't any as capable.
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Replace some P3s with some capable Italian tanks. Problem solved.
problem. there aren't any as capable.
47mm gun...it sucks.
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Replace some P3s with some capable Italian tanks. Problem solved.
problem. there aren't any as capable.
47mm gun...it sucks.
The MG sucks more...
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Thats why the Semovente 75/18 needs to be added. That SPG could kill anything exept a churchill
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Besides... as you can see, many people in FH2 intrest themself for the italians
still if FH2 wants to be historical accurate, we need also additional Carcano rifles
For example. The Carcano Modello 38 is actually not common. Troops reverted to the 6.5mm carcano's back as much as possible
I would say that the carcano should be a spawnable kit on some maps.and a pickup kit elsewhere. Engineer units often had the Moschetto di Fanteria Mod. 91/24
There's many variants of the carcano, and the thing is=They all where pretty common
Fucile di Fanteria Modello 1891 (long infantry rifle Model 1891, adopted in 1891 in 6.5x52 mm caliber)
Moschetto da Cavalleria Mod. 91 (6.5 mm carbine with integral folding bayonet, adopted in 1893)[17]
Moschetto per Truppe Speciali Mod. 91 (or 6.5 mm M91 TS, carbine for special troops, adopted 1897)
Moschetto di Fanteria Mod. 91/24 (6.5 mm carbine, modification of the original Mod. 1891 with shortened barrel and altered rearsight blade, adopted in 1924)
Moschetto per Truppe Speciali Mod. 91/28 (lightly altered M 91 6.5 mm carbine, adopted in 1928)
Moschetto per Truppe Speciali con Tromboncino Mod. 91/28 (modified 91/28 coupled with a 38,5 mm grenade launcher)
Fucile di Fanteria Mod. 1938 (Model 1938 short rifle adopted in 1938 in 7,35 mm caliber)
Fucile di Fanteria Mod. 91/38 (Model 1938 short rifle chambered in 6,5 mm caliber since 1940). This is the model (stamped "1940" to show manufacture date) used by Lee Harvey Oswald.
Fucile di Fanteria Mod. 91/41 (6.5 mm long infantry rifle, adopted in 1941)
Like the NO 3 SMLE and No 4, the Carcano Modello 38 and 41 long rifle's should also be added.(Both in 6.5)
The 7.35 modello 38 we have currently ingame, actually dint saw much use in North africa.It should be present, but historical accuracy would say that the 91/24, 91/28, Modello calvaria 91 and such should be added.
God i wish i could modell :( i would create them all!
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learn to do it
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learn to do it
I tried
i failed
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learn to do it
+1
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Unfortunatly i do not have an eye for detail..nor the patience. My mate is gonna help me in a few months though. Photoshop, 3DMax all those programs...He has them. Bought..The actuall licenses...
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To create Models is easy :p
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Screenshot from 29.09.2008, all files are lost :p
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3848/screen035cz2.jpg)
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Is that the Semovente from FH1? And is lost? forever? :'(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
my reaction to that...
Edit= In a month my first moddeling lessons begin ;D Und we are gonna try to modell a few carcano carbines ;D.
If the models are worth it...Could they be added to FH2? ;D
We are gonna start with the Moschetto da Cavalleria Mod. 91 and Moschetto di Fanteria Mod. 91/24. I will modell them and my mate will correct the mistakes i make during the process
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Try to start with something simpler and build it up gradually.
If you wish to donate a model, sure we'll look at it. (But make sure you unwrap and skin it too, otherwise it's too much work for us :P)
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Try to start with something simpler and build it up gradually.
If you wish to donate a model, sure we'll look at it. (But make sure you unwrap and skin it too, otherwise it's too much work for us :P)
My mate has all the crap to make a videogame ;D He says he can get it done. Is he allowed to use the Carcano Rifle sound (when it fires) For the Carcano's we make?
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If it's for FH you can use all the FH sounds you want, but if it isn't, then no.
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If it's for FH you can use all the FH sounds you want, but if it isn't, then no.
Well its just to see how the rifle looks and fires in FH2 ;D so yeah, it is own use. But i sended a PM to the devs for permission anyway.
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Ooookay guys, i have been digging around and found the types of grenades the italians used during WW2
First of all you have ofcourse the bomba a mano modello 35 O.T.O currently ingame
You also have the Bomba a mano S.R.C.M modello 35. Slightly more powerfull(43G of explosive compared to 35) but also slightly less range
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/8/7026/Mod35_Media.jpg)
you can see it together with Italies Smoke grenade= Granata Fumogena mod 35 F. This was simular in shape to the S.R.C.M
Italy also had a incendiary grenade.
(http://www.talpo.it/images/p069_1_00.png)
Italy also had several anti-tank grenades, simular to a thermos bomb
(http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4938/breda42ta4.jpg)
^Bomba a mano controcarro BREDA Mod.42, containing 600 grammes of high explosive
Also included in the italian arsenal, is the Bomba a mano S.I.P.E, a Defensive grenade, wich was simular in performance to a mills grenade, BUT could be trown further thanks to the handle
(http://s001.radikal.ru/i193/1107/90/7fb21c020ab6.jpg)
a nice overview=
http://comandosupremo.com/grenades.html
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We haven´t a Map for that Antitank Nades :p They are later then 42 8)
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We haven´t a Map for that Antitank Nades :p They are later then 42 8)
*eric cartman voice
then you better make that map krätzer....you better make it...
...
;D
NAH im just kidding mate <3 But as our senior bravissimo italian creater, i was just posting this incase you dint knew it ;D
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The yellow colour on the smoke nades means its a practice nade :P
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I have been doing some research
there was a question if the italians had a rifle grenade
The answer is yes and no
No as in the part of the other countries rifle grenades
Yes that it was a special rifle
http://www.il91.it/moschetto_ts_tromboncino_28.html
It is in italian, but from what i translated with google, it appears this rifle first started production in 1928. The 1928 series where phased out in 1934, but re-enterd service when WW2 broke out, when they where all converted in 1938. A second model was designed in 1938 also. The model 1938 where first built in 7.35 calibre, but they where all rechamberd to 6.5 in 1940
The bottom phrase, appearntly says that in a fireteam there was one soldier per 5 armed with this type of rifle. Ofcourse that was the standard doctorine, it was probaly less in reality.
Edit found a good program
In 1928 with the renewal of the production of the musket I model 1891 for ts (changed), was realized also a special tromboncino throws bombs that have to be given in endowment to five men for every squad of riflemen. The tromboncino mod. 28 stable is coupled with a musket I model 1891 for ts conveniently changed, utilization for the propulsion of the bomb the normal munizione of order mod. 91/95, while the pipe of the tromboncino, to smooth soul, has a caliber of 38.5 millimeters. To the I fire, since the ball cannot leave, the collar of the box is stretched and the gas pass in the room of throw of the tromboncino across four holes supplying the necessary energy to the throw of the bomb. After the throw of the bomb, opening the shutter, come espulsi the box extinguished and the bullet, that it is stopped against an appropriate one I stand out. This model of tromboncino was struck off from the service in 1934, but when had been built the arms I model 1891/38 in the initial caliber of 7.35, had been re-used reserves of arsenal, given that the pipes usurate of the caliber 6.5 were easily convertible in this new caliber. With the new production of arms I model 1891/38, is enough frequent therefore find muskets them whose calciature are derived in very obvious manner from woods of the "musket I model 1891 for t. s. for tromboncino mod. 28" recovered, restored and adapted, to the new structure, with the usual mastery of our workers of inlay. The description that follows is extrapolated from the "brief and temporary Education on the musket with the tromboncino Mod. 1928" cited like appendix to the" Manual of the official Instructor of the Run Premilitari" - Ministry of the War - Institute Poligrafico of the State - Rome 1929 Year VII -
Particulars The musket with tromboncino mod. 28 agrees the shot to normal bullet of musketry and the throw until 200 meters of bombs from infantry against targets paraded. It is for the shot to bullet it is for the throw of the bombs s' employs the cartridge regulate model 91/95 and it is used the same shutter of the musket; shutter that for the throw of the bombs with tromboncino it is gone from the breech of the musket to that of the tromboncino. I fire it in two cases it is carried out always working on the trigger of the musket. For the puntamento in the shot to bullet s' employs the normal line of sight; in the shot with the tromboncino s' employs instead a second line of sight, determined from an additional notch on the left to the standing d' I lift to regulate and from a fixing viewfinder sideways on the political left of the musket. The notch of the second line of sight can take on the decisive positions from three engravings imprinted in red on the edge dell' left wing of the I clatter d' I lift, and marked from the numbers 1-1,5 and 2, to which comes fixing the standing d' I lift to second that the distance of the target is of 100, 150 or 200 meters. It is to keep present that the bomb, with a greater inclination of the arm (about 27°) can be thrown until 320 meters about.
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Another thing i would like to point out,just like sherman tanks, various M13/40's and M14/41's where equipped with a Anti-aircraft machinegun on the turret
(http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/axis/szm13-2.jpg)
(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Italy/Ita-M1340-8mmBreda-Model38.jpg)
While only 20 rounds where stored, it did fired the very powerfull 8x59mm Breda MG round
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And that's why people will never use it...what's with italians and their silly mag machine guns? 20 rounds in a heavy machine is dumb. It should be belt fed.
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It's a 8mm MG...it's no heavier than the K98. It's basically like firing a ZB26 or BAR, which were also 20rounds....
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It's a 8mm MG...it's no heavier than the K98. It's basically like firing a ZB26 or BAR, which were also 20rounds....
Fail design is fail...lol, I see that the germans did had 8mm mauser mg's, but at least they were belt fed and even in quad or double mounts...but using a light machine gun with 20 rifle rounds to take down an airplane?
Lol...
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It's a 8mm MG...it's no heavier than the K98. It's basically like firing a ZB26 or BAR, which were also 20rounds....
Fail design is fail...lol, I see that the germans did had 8mm mauser mg's, but at least they were belt fed and even in quad or double mounts...but using a light machine gun with 20 rifle rounds to take down an airplane?
Lol...
Even the German MGs that were mounted on tank copulas were drum fed, not belt.
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Even the German MGs that were mounted on tank copulas were drum fed, not belt.
I meant mounted on AA tripods, as emplacements, not tank mounted. And I know that german tank mg's were drum mounted.
A mistake I say. Belt fed ftw :P
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In north africa, Belt fed was the least thing they preferred. Armies had alot of mag fed MG's in WW2 for a reason
Why do you think for example, that MG34 gunners sticked to 50 round and 75 round mag boxes instead of the belt?
Also the 8x59mm RB Breda is not 8x57 mauser. The 8x59 had a much heavier load (The same way the french did with there hotchkiss MG"s), the bullet itself weighted more aswel. The case capacity was 63 Grammes of H2O while the 8x59 breda had 72 gr of H2O
Yustax seriously you should piss off with your belt fed superiority ;D Yes it is awesome in FH2. But not always in WW2. Many german MG gunners preferred the mag boxes because a belt can scoop up way to much dirt, you need time to lay out the belt and you often need a Second person to 'Guide' the belt
In a defensive position? belt fed hands down! But offensive wise...
Why do you think they do the same with the Minimi and MAG today in the LMG role?
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Yustax seriously you should piss off with your belt fed superiority ;D Yes it is awesome in FH2. But not always in WW2. Many german MG gunners preferred the mag boxes because a belt can scoop up way to much dirt, you need time to lay out the belt and you often need a Second person to 'Guide' the belt
In a defensive position? belt fed hands down! But offensive wise...
Why do you think they do the same with the Minimi and MAG today in the LMG role?
I will never surrender the belt fed superiority :P And well, maybe because in an offensive position it's not wise to carry a bunch of ammo belts around and mags are preferred. Besides, I bet that if the MG42 had an attachment like the MG3, to attach a whole box ammo, they would have done it so :P
Still, screw italian mg's, they suck and they will always suck in FH2 :p And 20 rounds...yuck.
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from what i know, most of those belts where in their boxes allready theta, not really "just laying around" in the dirt, but ofcourse they allso layed around in the dirt at times.. ;D
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(http://www.zib-militaria.de/WebRoot/Store8/Shops/61431412/4799/9A08/960E/73E7/55E5/C0A8/2935/2C30/gurtkasten.jpg)
Feed me out of the Box Mister.. äääh Gurtkasten.
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In offensive there wassent always time ;D
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(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/111211/render01.jpg)
Le bella Bomba!
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Le bella Bomba!
"Le" is French. You're thinking of "Il". But that's wrong too, since bomba is feminine. The correct definitive article is "La". Now you have to put the words in the correct order, because in Italian the adjective comes after the noun: "La bomba bella".
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No point correcting. For the most part theta doesnt know wtf he's saying anyway.
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No point correcting. For the most part theta doesnt know wtf he's saying anyway.
This scottish person is correct
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anyone know anything about any Italian equivilent of satchel or geballte ladung3kg?
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anyone know anything about any Italian equivilent of satchel or geballte ladung3kg?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-WWII-ITALIAN-ARMY-EXPLOSIVES-DEMOLITION-SATCHEL-/400260833919?pt=AU_Militaria&hash=item5d3167a27f#ht_1030wt_1163
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good find, but how much explosives did it have?
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good find, but how much explosives did it have?
judging by its size, 3 KG so it seems.
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This mod lacks a CV33 with flamethrower.
If added, my life, and the life of many Italian Stuff Followers, will be completed.
I demand a CV33, now.
And a M11/39, oh man, that will be so badass. Two man Italian tanks, driving a M13/40 is fun? How about a fully crewed M11/39?
JE
SUS.
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Well they can be used at Bardia and sidi rizegh. Despite only 100 made, they saw action at both of those battles
Ooh and siege of tobruk aswel
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Well they can be used at Bardia and sidi rizegh. Despite only 100 made, they saw action at both of those battles
Ooh and siege of tobruk aswel
It will break the balance completly.
I mean, the CV33 has two MGs and perhaps a Flamethrower, i dont recall any CV33 with a Cannon.
M11/39 however, does have a cannon, but its completly stupid against British Tanks. I highly doubt it had HE ammo lol.
But it will be so nice.
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Well they can be used at Bardia and sidi rizegh. Despite only 100 made, they saw action at both of those battles
Ooh and siege of tobruk aswel
It will break the balance completly.
I mean, the CV33 has two MGs and perhaps a Flamethrower, i dont recall any CV33 with a Cannon.
M11/39 however, does have a cannon, but its completly stupid against British Tanks. I highly doubt it had HE ammo lol.
But it will be so nice.
Sorry i ment about the M11/39
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CV33 will basically be a really tiny version of the Mark VII.
And the M39/11 will be like a larger, slower version of the Semovente, with MG's ;)
All in all...bring 'em on! :D
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the M11/39 has got to be amongst my truly loved tanks Ever.
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Italians are simply awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqvCT-WhL6o&feature=related
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Well ... in Battle of Bir el Gubi they stopped and beat all British Tank Brigade ;D .
I wish to see that battle in FH2 ... but devs must make italian 47 mm guns like IRL , where was equal to short 50 mm Kwk 38 L/42 :-\
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it is so quickly said that italians where coward bad equipped trained and prepared for everything. This lied on there high command for 99% of all times.
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you should make a sicily map with many stationary machine guns, AA batteries, landing craft and gliders
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Oh Brothers, i can feel the M11/39 is coming, every day it gets closer!
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well 24 where sended to East africa(keren)
The other 72 saw action at the siege of tobruk, Sidi rizegh and the invasion of Bardia
4 maps where this epic little tank can be placed!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Captured_Italian_tanks_005042.jpg)
Here are Captured M11/39's wich where used at tobruk
Edit=
M11/39 where used by the Pavia devision according to a site, thus at Sidi rezegd
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We know about these Tanks, mostly all off them. You will see if they happen or not in FH2.
No need to remember us about them every 2nd Month :D
Btw. what happened to the rifles you wanted to do Theta ;D
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We know about these Tanks, mostly all off them. You will see if they happen or not in FH2.
No need to remember us about them every 2nd Month :D
Btw. what happened to the rifles you wanted to do Theta ;D
I am working on 2 now actually. It is going slower then planned because my tutor had a car accident and was out on doing stuff for a long time
Its not that i am angry but my god moddeling is a PAIN
And my PC doesnt handle things well aswel, thank god for my new PC next week
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to make it totally historically correct, add animation of armour plates falling off
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but they had a special tool to screw the plates back together ;D
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-insert Greek Bias here-
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Damn i love Cannone da 90/53, poor Mattys, poor everyone!. Would be the perfect replacement for the 88 on Bardia, and it could be on any other map too!
Such a badass Cannone!
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let us not forget the truck mounted 90/53 wich where present in pretty decent numbers
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Anyone can tell me what were the most common Carcano variants in use during the war (and if the proportions changed as time went by)?
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Well the one thing carcano's have in common is that all variants where infact, common
You ofcourse have the main infantry rifle, the Modello 1891. Used by frontline troops
The M1891 Moschetto da Cavalleria with integrnal Bayonet,
Production=
BRESCIA 1893-1919
BRESCIA (F.N.A. Brescia) 1932-1942
TERNI 1928-1938
BERETTA 1935-1943
GARDONE VAL TROMPIA 1935-1942
This one was origenally for cavalry, motorcycle troops and such but also for engineers,supply personell
This one is the most common Carbine PRE WW2. Production After 1935 all became modello 38's with fixed rear sights and the typical red wood
The Moschetto per Truppe Speciali Mod. 91 was reserved for machine gun crews, mortar crews, artillery personell
BReSCIA 1898-1919
TERNI 1928-1929
BERETTA 1928-1938 (compresa la produzione civile)
GARDONE VAL TROMPIA 1928-1938
PIETRO LORENZOTTI 1930-31
M.B.T. Metallurgica Bresciana Tempini 1930
F.N.A. Brescia 1931-1938 (compresa la produzione civile)
CANNA (visualizzazione flash) (visualizzazione html)The Moschetto di Fanteria Mod. 91/24 in turn was a modification of the origenal moschetto M1891
The moschetto di fanteria M91/24 was only produced=
TERNI 1924 -1929
So i would dub this one as less common
The grenade launching carcano was also decently common. In theory issued one per platoon
http://www.il91.it/il91.html
The modello 38 in 7.35 was produced for several years, but in large numbers by many companies. Same goes for a Truppi speciali model with folding bayonet. These have the Red wood commonly.
After 1940 modello 38 production went back to 6.5x52 carcano. These are often found with standard beech wood.
Fucile(Infantry rifle, already ingame, Moschetto Truppi speciali (shorter then infantry rifle) and Moschetto (Folding bayonet integral). These where all again produced in rather large numbers. Again produced by many companies
And then finnaly the M91/41 carcano. Shorter then origenal Carcano infantry rifle, longer then modello 38. Produced from 1941 till 1945.
TERNI 1941 -1943
ARMAGUERRA CREMONA 1942 -1945
So it is difficult to say, wich one was more common. Because they all appeared. The sole carcano collector i encounterd on militaria fairs, said that for every 1.5 infantry rifles produced, one carbine model was produced.
Some notes however
-7.35x51mm Carcanos where NOT issued to North africa (They where issued to East front italian troops)
-There are NO true sniper versions, only a handfull of prototypes or self made sniper rifles
The best site i found about the Italian carcano, is this one
http://www.il91.it/il91.html
But it is in italian.
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Damn i love Cannone da 90/53, poor Mattys, poor everyone!. Would be the perfect replacement for the 88 on Bardia, and it could be on any other map too!
Such a badass Cannone!
I don't know about Bardia in particular but Italians imported both pak35 and 88's
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So in theory, if FH2 got new models for Italian rifles, then the order of preference would be:
- Fucile 1891
- Moschetto 1891
- Fucile 38 (6.5)
- Fucile 38 (7.35)
- Moschetto 1891 T.S.
The grenade launcher, while novel, was out of service in '34.
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this depends, regarding the grenade launcher. Because the italian site mentions that they where used beyond that, infact production was resumed in 1938
For North africa, the fucile di fanteria M1891(ingame), Moschetto di cavaleria 1891(integral bayonet) and Moschetto 1891 T.S would probaly be the most common yes. These 3 would be the most common on all italian fronts FH2 will someday use (NA and eastfront)
As for the Invasion of italy, should that ever come to FH2. The modello 38's will appear much more common.
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Damn i love Cannone da 90/53, poor Mattys, poor everyone!. Would be the perfect replacement for the 88 on Bardia, and it could be on any other map too!
Such a badass Cannone!
I don't know about Bardia in particular but Italians imported both pak35 and 88's
Almost sure that the Italians had 90/53s in Bardia, like, they needed heavy anti aircraft guns, not just a bunch of Breda 35 20mm AA.
Cannone da 75/46 too, why not, Germans used them in the Invasion of Italy.
I dont know, as long as the Italians get L3/35s im happy.
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this depends, regarding the grenade launcher. Because the italian site mentions that they where used beyond that, infact production was resumed in 1938
the problem with italian weapons, no good reliable information. like that cup attachment, havent even seen a source for that. And Bomba a Mano L; no year of introdution or production numbers..
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this depends, regarding the grenade launcher. Because the italian site mentions that they where used beyond that, infact production was resumed in 1938
the problem with italian weapons, no good reliable information. like that cup attachment, havent even seen a source for that. And Bomba a Mano L; no year of introdution or production numbers..
The carcano collector i went to, has a Grenade launcher carcano from 1938
Damn i love Cannone da 90/53, poor Mattys, poor everyone!. Would be the perfect replacement for the 88 on Bardia, and it could be on any other map too!
Such a badass Cannone!
I don't know about Bardia in particular but Italians imported both pak35 and 88's
Almost sure that the Italians had 90/53s in Bardia, like, they needed heavy anti aircraft guns, not just a bunch of Breda 35 20mm AA.
Cannone da 75/46 too, why not, Germans used them in the Invasion of Italy.
I dont know, as long as the Italians get L3/35s im happy.
Both 90/53 and 75/46 WHERE used at bardia. These guns where widely deployed across the entire North africa campaign
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ah some quick corrections
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bardia
breda 20mm guns where used
75/46 where used
90/53 was NOT used
The italians had very large number of artillery. both anti-tank as field artillery
Tank forces where 13 M13/40 and 113 L3/35 tankettes
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ah some quick corrections
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bardia
breda 20mm guns where used
75/46 where used
90/53 was NOT used
The italians had very large number of artillery. both anti-tank as field artillery
Tank forces where 13 M13/40 and 113 L3/35 tankettes
I dont trust Wikipedia. I mean, i think it makes no sense. Just a bunch of 20mm AAs? I bet all you want that they had 75mm or anything else.
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ah some quick corrections
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bardia
breda 20mm guns where used
75/46 where used
90/53 was NOT used
The italians had very large number of artillery. both anti-tank as field artillery
Tank forces where 13 M13/40 and 113 L3/35 tankettes
I dont trust Wikipedia.
This:
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8471/67707093.jpg)
Versus
You saying "it makes no sense". No offence but... source criticism 101.
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Oops, misread then. Thought THETA was saying that no 75/46 were used.
Now that makes more sense, since Mussolini considered Bardia as a strategic position, no wonder the Italians deployed heavy AA Guns to defend it. I mean, using just 20mm for Air Defenses is just stupid.
One step closer to see the Cannone da 75/46 in FH2!
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What's Bardia without Bardia Bill? ;) It's the same gun that is on Pointe du Hoc! :o
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75/46 where used because it was added to the article in the past... And i saw a foto of with the italian Caption (origenal) saying it was the bardia area. This photo was removed from wikipedia because of "Copyright infrigement"
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ah some quick corrections
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bardia
breda 20mm guns where used
75/46 where used
90/53 was NOT used
The italians had very large number of artillery. both anti-tank as field artillery
Tank forces where 13 M13/40 and 113 L3/35 tankettes
I dont trust Wikipedia.
This:
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8471/67707093.jpg)
Versus
You saying "it makes no sense". No offence but... source criticism 101.
Thank you, Thor.
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Anyways, it shows that a proper remake of Bardia is at order. The italians had vast defenses constructed, they had air support from SM 79 Sparviero's and CR 42's. The Sparviero is a plane that saw wide usage in north africa. so it aint a "One thing for one map" issue
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Some good community mapper could take that as a project and actually finish it. Oh wait, all those who have actually finished maps are or have been in the dev team already. Yoinks!
Take that as bating or something. I'd like to see a proper Bardia map being made.
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Aye seconded. I will sponsor him with 10 euros worth of coffee, snacks and red bulls to get the job done!
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I will as well, the SM.79 is a plane that is too beautiful not to have in-game, not to mention the fact that it can dump 672 bomblets.
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Sparviero can be used on the following maps=
-Second battle of el alamein (dozens where present in the north for SAS patrol hunting and other targets)
-battle of gazala
-Siege of tobruk
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I think its better to have a SM.81 rather than a SM.79, as the SM.81 was used in East Africa and could make it to Keren if possible.
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I think its better to have a SM.81 rather than a SM.79, as the SM.81 was used in East Africa and could make it to Keren if possible.
So was the Sparviero
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I think its better to have a SM.81 rather than a SM.79, as the SM.81 was used in East Africa and could make it to Keren if possible.
So was the Sparviero
Uhm no? SM79 was nicknamed Sparviero, and SM81 was nicknamed Pipistrello.
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Torinco, i ment that the Sparviero was also present in the areas around keren ;D 9 to be exact
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Torinco, i ment that the Sparviero was also present in the areas around keren ;D 9 to be exact
Oh lol.
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FH2!
Y U NO HAVE BOMBERS
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FH2!
Y U NO HAVE BOMBERS
FH2!
Y U NO HAVE AIRMAPS!?
Just look at this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K7U6sD8MJM
Imagine the fun people could have...
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I think the Italians need two more tanks, a single howitzer, a mortar, a scout car, two AA Guns, Light and Heavy and two Airplanes, Fighter and Medium Bomber.
The tanks would be: L3/35 and M11/39.
Artillery: Cannone da 105/28
Mortar: Mortaio da 81/14 Modello 35
Scout Car: AB 41
AA Guns:
Light -Breda Model 35
Heavy - Cannone da 75/46
Airplanes:
Fighter - CR42 (?
Bomber - SM.79
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Inf:
Wz 35 ATR, S18-100 pick up Kit or static weapon in basis
Mortar:
Mortaio da 81/14 Modello 35
Arty, field gun/pak:
Cannone da 75/32 modello 37
Cannone da 105/28
AA Gun:
Light -Breda Model 35
On early maps
Tanks:
M11/39
CV33/35
Light Armoured Recon Vehicle:
Lancia IZM
Aircraft:
CR42 as Fighter, Bomber, Recon
Fiat G50
Breda Ba.88 counterpart for the Beaufighter ?
AA Guns:
Heavy - Cannone da 75/46
late Maps
Tanks
Sermovente 75/18
Armoured Recon Vehicle:
AB40
AB41
Aircraft:
IMAM Ro.63 Recon (Fi 156 Storch replica)
Macchi MC.200
Macchi MC.202
Ju 87
AA Guns:
Heavy - Cannone da 90/53
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And we are forgetting the correct carbines, modello 38's in 7.35 where not used in North africa. If we have the Modello 1891 moschetto di cavaleria then we are all set
Also the standard heavy machine gun, the Fiat-Revelli Modello 1914 and the upgrade Modello 1935.
If i only could properly model things :( I am trying but it requires patience, wich i lack >:(
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"Italian Hope", eh Theta? ;D
I dont think the Italians need small detailes like Carabines now, imo, they lack the basics assets for a proper faction, and that is, what i mentioned in my post. But i do think that Field Artillery and Anti Aircraft guns are the most required.
But i dream with Falcos fighting Hurricanes or Gladiators, Sparvieros bombing British Flags, M11/39s firing at Matildas and Matildas lol'ing at them, L3/35s running around like mad and a Obice da 210/22 nuking flags.
Oh they are so awesome.
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Yeah you are right Torinco.
Edit=See Torinco! you and i do get along with something!
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All I want to see for the Italians atm is M11/39, L3/35, L3 cc and L3 Lf; with a set of better quality and more historical rifles.
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I want see you paying us for so much Content ;D
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All I want to see for the Italians atm is M11/39, L3/35, L3 cc and L3 Lf; with a set of better quality and more historical rifles.
you'd rather redo perfectly fine rifles than get rid of german placeholders ::)
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Yeah you are right Torinco.
Edit=See Torinco! you and i do get along with something!
You got it wrong, its Torenico ;D
I Always had in mind a USSR v Italy map, i seen an Italian made movie not long ago about Italians holding some fortified positions, in front of them, open terrain and in the end, a forest or something. Exactly like in "The Storm" FH1, but instead of Germans and their Overkill 88mms, you have Italians and their underpowered 47mms. Would be the perfect map for Italians, it has everything. Artillery, Tanks, Airplanes, Infantry Combat, Defensive weapons everything you wish. I just imagine Yak9 fighting Macchi C.200s, <3
For some reason BF2Editor doesnt want to load a new map, and it frustrated all my attempts to get back on Mapping, sadly.
Still, im pretty sure the devs will give us a complete Italian Faction and if not, the community will hopefully take care!
Forza Italia!
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Wich was the most used Rifle by Italian´s on Eastern Front? And do someone own this Rifle?
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Wich was the most used Rifle by Italian´s on Eastern Front? And do someone own this Rifle?
The Modello 1891 was the primary Carcano
After 1942 however the M1891/41 was deployed wich is a shorter version of the long infantry rifle. The modello 1891 was never fully replaced but the M1891/41 was also pretty common after 1942 on all fronts.
The primary carbine was the Moschetto Di cavaleria M1891. This was supplemented by the Truppi speciali (For MG/mortar/artillery crews). However the Cavaleria was more common
All carbines where supplemented by the Fucile di fanteria Modello 38. The 7.35x51 was used in earlier east front campaigns but the italians switched back to the 6.5 model after 1941-1942. The modello 38 remained but in 6.5x52mm carcano. The modello 38 was also built in a cavaleria model with integrated bayonet.
So
1.Modello 1891 long infantry rifle
2.Moschetto di cavaleria M1891
3.Moschetto Truppi speciali/Modello 38
4. Modello 1891/41
The thing was, the italians deployed many variants and all in large numbers, but from my knownledge, the above 4 where the most common.
http://www.il91.it/il91.html
This is the most complete site out there, but it is in italian however
I own a Modello 1891 , Modello 38 carbine in 7.35 and a Modello 1891/41 carcano
If you want,ill make some good photo's, because the ingame models of the carcano are incorrect.
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Are there any external differences between the 7.35 and 6.5mm Fucile M38? It doesn't look like it to me, so that would be an easy way to get 2 guns in one (though you might texture the wood a different colour to make the distinction better).
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I would like to have many fotos in High Quality not only some Fotos :P
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Are there any external differences between the 7.35 and 6.5mm Fucile M38? It doesn't look like it to me, so that would be an easy way to get 2 guns in one (though you might texture the wood a different colour to make the distinction better).
Nope both Beeeeeecchh! as that reddish wood where used for modello 38 carcano's. The only diffrence between these rifles is the markings on the reciever but that doesnt matter
I would like to have many fotos in High Quality not only some Fotos :P
I'll see if i can get my hands on a good camera
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If you got the money buy junk and guns, Im sure you can buy at least a decent camera quite cheap.
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i used to have a decent camera
but then it took damage to the lens
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i used to have a decent camera
but then it took damage to the lens
That is not how you properly zoom with a camera theta.
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So, finally the Italians got the attention they deserved, i was surprised when i saw the M11/39, i thought they never listened to us, i was so desperate to see that beauty in game i was even ready to take 3dsmax and do it by myself... you dont know how big was my smile when i saw that machine to be added in FH2.
Then the Arty piece, i wasnt expecting it, now theres no need to add LeFHs in Italian maps, now they have their own arty!!!
And now you guys come up with two of my favorite birds of all time, i call them the "Machos", but they're Macchis, now they even have airplanes!.
Now the Italians have the basic assets for a good bunch of possible maps, it has expanded, it is better.
But whats left? one main asset remains in the shadows, the little Carro Veloce, Bardia screams for one. A couple of things like Cannone da 75/46, Cr42, Semovente 75/18, thats whats left i guess.
Thanks for adding such amazing new vehicles, it must be the ONLY FPS that has such stuff, as an Italian Culture lover, Italian Football Lover and Italian Military lover, THANK YOU.
Now give me a L3/35 damnit!
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True priorities would be to polish up the Italian army first, not by adding more vehicles but by deleting present 'placeholders'. Almost all of those things have been polished away now, except for the smoke grenade :)
I truly hope there will be even more Italian stuff and definitely more maps with Italy in the future.