FH2 Gameplay Discussion: TTK and Infantry Combat

[GeoPat]

Despite everything you have written on this subject, you have really not made the case that people quit because it's "too hard".  That's just your opinion.  You haven't proven it not is it common sense.  I can make a much more compelling case that people quit FH2 because it is too old and too buggy.  That's why new content is so important.  Luckily there are a lot of people working on that from different angles.  If Devs are going to take time to address combat they should look at minimizing the bugs in hit boxes and hit detection that make the game feel sub-par.  It is a hard game, but "too hard" is no more relevant than someone claiming it's "too easy". 

[Airshark79]

I don't claim the game to be too hard, in the contrary I think the game panders too much to those who know more about its maps, weapons and how things work. I am for giving the noobs a chance to survive and effectively trace back and learn their mistakes without getting the "kick in the nut" and having to do the walking all over again just to get killed in an alien land, whereas we know every single bump on every map and more or less know where the enemy will be and where we need to keep our heads down. About game being old, they must've figured that out earlier by downloading a mod for a 2003 title, wouldn't they? That is surely there for some, there is no arguing that, but eh..

[Chad1992]

Everyone here started off as a noob we all made it, if you love the game you'll stick with it and get better, if you don't love it you don't stay.  I actually like it because it cuts out all the BS gamers that just get on to screw around and ruin the game play.

[Musti]

Weak Pistols
This is for the Beretta and Sauer 38H Pistols and I think the new Russian smgs. They kill with 4 upper body shots. (I think? I'm typing this from memory) I think these also don't necessarily kill with a headshot, but usually you are damaged so much by a headshot that you won't be able to use a bandage in time

Really? I didn't know there was a separate "category" for those guns.

[Ts4EVER]

There are no "categories" at all, each calibre is coded separatly with different velocities etc. I just grouped them by damage like that because that is what matters.

[Lydecker]

I'm bringing some friends along soon, we'll see if they quit after a week or two. They are new to FH2 at least. I can't remember if one of them tried FH1 back in the day.

I don't know if you guys are talking about daily quit rates or totally quitting FH2. Sometimes 2-3 rounds are enough, sometimes it's fun for hours. It helps if the teams are even a bit balanced at least in some maps. It's really taxing to go against frigging A-team round after round with a bunch of players that just can't get it done. I can sometimes compensate by going SL, but that pays off rarely, and often ends up with "f*** this" + Alt-F4. Then again, I often switch to the underdog team, so... guess I deserve it.

Quitting totally is something that shouldn't matter. This is not for everyone. Just like I get pissed off playing BF3/BF4, others get pissed off playing FH2. I don't see how changing 1s1k to 2s1k would help here. The new guys would still get mowed down the same.

This game is a rare gem in todays FPS genre. It should stay that way. More content, some bug fixes, little tweaks where needed and it's all good to me.

[Hjaldrgud]

Weak Pistols
This is for the Beretta and Sauer 38H Pistols and I think the new Russian smgs. They kill with 4 upper body shots. (I think? I'm typing this from memory) I think these also don't necessarily kill with a headshot, but usually you are damaged so much by a headshot that you won't be able to use a bandage in time

Really? I didn't know there was a separate "category" for those guns.

Beretta should be in its own league. the "kill it with fire" category. I have a theory that it shoots blanks that basically just makes the allied soldier angrier.

[jan_kurator]

When do you start to bleed? 25%? 50%? If TS is correct, then the bleed would be 1 hp per 2 seconds for 25% or 1hp per second if it's 50%. This would mean 50(49) seconds of bleeding if you go just under that limit.

Soldiers start to bleed at 15% of HP and it takes 125 seconds to bleed out.

[Airshark79]

Big thanks jan.

@Lydecker Talking about quitting the game altogether after a short bit of playtime. I wrote my more detaled explanation of how the change I proposed would help the noobs is on my post before this. Surely I need to reorganise.

@Chad, thanks.

I'm thinking about changing the wounded state and the HP increase by the bandages in a way that every "grade"(rifles lower body 1hk,carbines upper body 1hk) of damage is decreased by one level while keeping it more balanced and intuitive to bring out some similarities to the scenarios Hjaldr mentioned, like when one bandage cannot treat a lower body rifle wound but slows it down to a margin where the player could make the time to get to a bandage box and treat himself, or go back on track after receiving some help by a fellow squadmate. Sure the guy might get 10 bandages and move as if he never got shot on his liver, but is that really something we would be against so much that we'd drop the system? A question we can say the answer later.

[Musti]

There are no "categories" at all, each calibre is coded separatly with different velocities etc. I just grouped them by damage like that because that is what matters.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

In that case.. BUFF BERETTA!

[Airshark79]

Okay.. I did some experimentation about what we can get with the bolt-action centric gameplay. I have  made some... stuff, subject to change.

Here are some numbers.

Bleed Starts at %20HP
HS 1HK
%1 Health bleed takes 3 seconds(60 total)
Medpack heals %10 Health
Remove SL's Extra bandages
1HW=One hit wound

Rifle
UB:>99dmg(~.5 second bleed before death)
LB:88dmg
Li:81dmg

Carbine
UB:89dmg
LB:81dmg
Li:48dmg

.45
UB:81dmg
LB:48dmg
Li:44dmg

9mm
UB:48dmg
LB:44dmg
Li:32dmg

Weak
UB:29dmg
HS:99dmg(1 sec bleed before death)

Keeping comments for myself as of now.

[RAnDOOm]

Is this going to be a seperate mini mod to play in singleplayer ?

I really dont understand.

FH2 devs and players already said that they do not want or will change any of the Infantry Combat values.

[Airshark79]

I don't know what you are trying to achieve with your posts.

[gavrant]

@Beretta: I checked the Beretta 34, Walther and Sauer, and they indeed do 20-35% less damage at the pointblank range than the Colt 1911 and Webley. At distances over 10m it becomes more complicated, but the Beretta and Sauer are still among the leaders of loosing damage with distance. In other words, don't know the reason behind that, but the Beretta and Sauer officially suck

@Airshark: Randoom has a point. So far your overall suggestion has not gained much (any?) support. And the logic behind "new players leave FH2 because of 1s1k specifically" is very weak. And the risk of breaking the game with rebalancing 100-something handheld weapons is rather high (let's forget about coaxial MGs and other anti-infantry stuff). So where is the incentive for the devs to implement your ideas right now?

[Airshark79]

The main incentive is that I personally am willing to do the legwork myself. TBH I want this to fail, by proper testing in various combat situations with the noobs and everyones feedback. But you should keep in mind that people wouldn't be here if they disliked the game, and infantry gameplay is the biggest part of it.

If you have a better theory on why %84 of the accounts did not play the game for more than 10 hrs and most commonly suffered absurdly low k/d then I'd like to hear about it and discuss via PM. My answer about the game being too hard to Geopat is some more detail on my theory.