Poll

Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?

Yes
1 (25%)
No
3 (75%)
I do not know
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?  (Read 409 times)

Offline Pa3ym2

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The German PzB 38 anti-tank rifle is the least powerful and ineffective in the game. I propose a way to strengthen it. In reality, German anti-tank guns were supplied with tear gas cartridges

>Firearms using this round
>Panzerb├╝chse 38 Anti-tank rifle
>Panzerb├╝chse 39 Anti-tank rifle
>(Rs) stands for "Reizstoff", which means tear gas, because the projectile contains a small capsule of tear gas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92%C3%9794mm_Patronen

Weapons specialist, writer, and researcher of Soviet archives Andrei Ulanov testifies that the Germans used such cartridges against Soviet tanks. There are repeated reports from Soviet tank crews that after such gas cartridges hit the tank, it became impossible to be inside the tanks, and the crews left them (6:44) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGHVim9kTBc
Similar cartridges for Soviet anti-tank rifles were also developed in the USSR, but they did not go into production.

I would like such cartridges to be implemented in the game as a separate firing mode for an anti-tank rifle, similar to the bipod firing mode of a machine gun. It is not necessary to make all the cartridges of the anti-tank rifle gas, it is enough that, for example, 20 cartridges were ordinary, and another 5 were gas with a separate firing mode. You can take the animation of the dimming and reddening of the screen when the player is injured, repaint it from red to green, and add it to the crew inside the tank when after such a gas cartridge enters the tank.
« Last Edit: 11-11-2021, 08:11:06 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #1 on: 11-11-2021, 10:11:13 »
The suppression effect in FH2 is already a repurposed tear gas effect from the BF2 special forces expansion. I don't think this could be applied to vehicles, only infantry.

Offline Pa3ym2

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #2 on: 11-11-2021, 10:11:29 »
The suppression effect in FH2 is already a repurposed tear gas effect from the BF2 special forces expansion. I don't think this could be applied to vehicles, only infantry.

Is it possible to somehow realize the effect of gas inside armored vehicles in a different way?

I read that if you inhale a lot of tear gas, then pulmonary edema occurs and the person dies. Is it possible then to make sure that when a gas cartridge hits the tank, there is no visual effect from the gas, but the character begins to "groan" inside the vehicle, slowly receive damage. And if he did not get out of the tank within 40-50 seconds, then he died.
« Last Edit: 11-11-2021, 10:11:25 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #3 on: 11-11-2021, 11:11:24 »
The German PzB 38 anti-tank rifle is the least powerful and ineffective in the game.
This not true. You base this opinion on?

German anti-tank guns were supplied with tear gas cartridges
Those are also famous for not having any impact at all. Capsules broke on the impact and if shot penetrated, any damage done inside the tank was mostly caused by shrapnel. It even says that in the article you brought up "The idea was impractical due to the core penetrating the armor and leaving the capsule outside. "

Weapons specialist, writer, and researcher of Soviet archives Andrei Ulanov testifies that the Germans used such cartridges against Soviet tanks.
It is well known those were used, but those were useless and Germans quickly switched to tungsten core bullets which achieved much better penetration, as a matter of fact, I doubt any tear gas bullets were still in use during Op. Barbarossa. 

There are repeated reports from Soviet tank crews that after such gas cartridges hit the tank, it became impossible to be inside the tanks, and the crews left them (6:44) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGHVim9kTBc
Please give us repeated reports with sources other than random YouTube video. We base our research on proper documents whenever we can.

Similar cartridges for Soviet anti-tank rifles were also developed in the USSR, but they did not go into production.
For the same reason, those were simply useless.

I would like such cartridges to be implemented in the game as a separate firing mode for an anti-tank rifle, similar to the bipod firing mode of a machine gun. It is not necessary to make all the cartridges of the anti-tank rifle gas, it is enough that, for example, 20 cartridges were ordinary, and another 5 were gas with a separate firing mode. You can take the animation of the dimming and reddening of the screen when the player is injured, repaint it from red to green, and add it to the crew inside the tank when after such a gas cartridge enters the tank.
Not historically accurate for the period FH2 maps are based on. Not desired

Is it possible to somehow realize the effect of gas inside armored vehicles in a different way?
No.
« Last Edit: 11-11-2021, 11:11:43 by jan_kurator »

Offline Pa3ym2

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #4 on: 11-11-2021, 11:11:32 »
No.

Andrei Ulanov also said that there were two types of cartridges for the Soviet anti-tank guns PTRD / PTRS. The old BS-32 cartridge had an armor penetration of about 20-25 mm of armor at 500 meters. But in 1941, Soviet gunsmiths designed a new BS-41 cartridge with a carbide and tungsten core with much higher armor penetration. The new BS-41 cartridge had an armor penetration of about 40 mm of armor at a distance of 500 m.
http://shooting-iron.ru/publ/18-1-0-1664
This made it possible to penetrate the side of the "Panther" tank if it was not covered by a protective screen. Andrey Ulanov confirms that such BS-41 cartridges began to enter the troops at the end of 1941, but they were few and always in short supply (10:36) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGHVim9kTBc

Because of this, in 1943, the Germans began to close the sides of their tanks with protective screens that protected not only from cumulative shells, but also from these new BS-41 cartridges (37:21) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGHVim9kTBc

I said this to the fact that in addition to the German gas cartridges, in addition to the main ammunition of cartridges, 5 new BS-41 cartridges with greater armor penetration than other cartridges could be added to Soviet anti-tank guns

Is it possible to realize at least the second type of cartridges for PTRD / PTRS with greater armor penetration?
« Last Edit: 11-11-2021, 11:11:41 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline jan_kurator

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #5 on: 11-11-2021, 11:11:09 »
Please do your research first. BS-41 is a standard AT bullet PTRD and PTRS use in FH2 and you can penetrate side armour of a panther with it (keep in mind that our EF maps with AT rifles are from the 1944).

We do research on stuff like this, and if special ammo was available, we would gladly add it the same way we added B-Patrone to German sniper rifles.
« Last Edit: 11-11-2021, 11:11:20 by jan_kurator »

Offline Pa3ym2

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #6 on: 11-11-2021, 12:11:17 »
Please do your research first. BS-41 is a standard AT bullet PTRD and PTRS use in FH2 and you can penetrate side armour of a panther with it.

If you have battles of 1941 and the beginning of 1942, then it would be more correct to make the main ammunition load of PTRS and PTRDs with B-32 cartridges. For 1941 and early 1942, the BS-41 is not a standard bullet. Andrei Ulanov studied many Soviet archives and reports from the battlefield. He testifies that during this period, BS-41 cartridges were distributed in several pieces for one anti-tank crew, and there were many military units reporting that they did not have such cartridges at all (10:52) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGHVim9kTBc

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #7 on: 11-11-2021, 12:11:22 »
Maybe we will do this, but so far the only early 42 map is Motovskiy Bay, where there is no PTRD present.

Offline Pa3ym2

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #8 on: 11-11-2021, 14:11:16 »
Maybe we will do this, but so far the only early 42 map is Motovskiy Bay, where there is no PTRD present.

Is it possible then to make it so that cartridges from anti-tank rifles could destroy the tank driver if he hit a certain place on the tank?

I had cases when I fired a tank machine gun at an aircraft, and one of the bullets pierced the glass of the aircraft and killed the pilot. Is it possible to do the same with anti-tank rifles when firing at light tanks?

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #9 on: 11-11-2021, 14:11:54 »
Not possible because the tank crew is not rendered inside the tank. Doing so could lead to glitches due to netcode, like you can sometimes kill an M10 driver with an MG42 through the armor because it shoots fast enough.

Generally speaking: You should be aware that we developers are a lot smarter than you. If you can think of something, we have thought of it before. So logically the reason that it is not in is that it is not actually possible in the engine. So basically stop with these nonsense suggestions.

Offline Pa3ym2

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Re: Poll: Should I Add Tear Gas to a PzB 38 Cartridge?
« Reply #10 on: 11-11-2021, 14:11:53 »
Not possible because the tank crew is not rendered inside the tank. Doing so could lead to glitches due to netcode, like you can sometimes kill an M10 driver with an MG42 through the armor because it shoots fast enough.

Generally speaking: You should be aware that we developers are a lot smarter than you. If you can think of something, we have thought of it before. So logically the reason that it is not in is that it is not actually possible in the engine. So basically stop with these nonsense suggestions.

It's sad to realize that the game engine is so limited that almost nothing can be done with it. I have 3-4 more ideas. Can I post 3-4 more topics?

If none of these 3-4 can be implemented, then I will no longer create topics here.