Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: Pa3ym2 on 02-11-2021, 23:11:36
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I would like the developers to pay more attention to improving the game mode with bots. The voting among the Russian-speaking fans of FH2 showed that most of them play more with bots than with live players
https://vk.com/forgottenhope?w=wall-14079341_18967%2Fall
It seems to me that a similar survey should be conducted among the foreign and English-speaking audience of the game. If the percentage of players playing with bots will be more than with live players, then perhaps this will encourage developers to pay more attention to the game mode with bots.
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Tell me how the "topic" differs from the "poll" on this forum? Or is it no different?
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SP mode in the refractor 2 engine is a dead end, as most of the issues playing with bots have is caused by the hardcoded stuff of the BF2 we cannot change. Do not expect any updates in the SP / COOP department.
Bot support can be occasionally seen being added to stock and custom maps by some of the community members, look for those in the #singleplayer channel on our Discord, but no major improvements for the gameplay can be done.
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SP mode in the refractor 2 engine is a dead end, as most of the issues playing with bots have is caused by the hardcoded stuff of the BF2 we cannot change. Do not expect any updates in the SP / COOP department.
But after all, in the last update, you made the bots fire a rifle grenade launcher at machine gunners. This was not the case in the penultimate version. Is it possible to do so that, for example, prohibit bots from taking out a knife / bayonet and fighting hand-to-hand?
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But after all, in the last update, you made the bots fire a rifle grenade launcher at machine gunners. This was not the case in the penultimate version. Is it possible to do so that, for example, prohibit bots from taking out a knife / bayonet and fighting hand-to-hand?
We never did that, nothing was changed in that regard in the latest patch. Bots use rifle grenades since their introduction in the 2.0 version.
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But after all, in the last update, you made the bots fire a rifle grenade launcher at machine gunners. This was not the case in the penultimate version. Is it possible to do so that, for example, prohibit bots from taking out a knife / bayonet and fighting hand-to-hand?
We never did that, nothing was changed in that regard in the latest patch. Bots use rifle grenades since their introduction in the 2.0 version.
In this latest version 2.58, if I occupy somewhere a closed and invisible position with a machine gun, then after several killed enemy infantrymen, several rifle grenades immediately fly to the position where I am now and kill me almost always. They started firing rifle grenades like from a mortar - vertically up and down at me. They often shoot like this through a house or over a hill if they don't see me but hear that I am firing from a machine gun. Check it out for yourself. I say for sure that this has not happened before. This only appeared in the latest version 2.58. This is a clear improvement in bot behavior. Now you will not be able to sit in the same place with a machine gun and destroy enemy infantry in dozens as before. Is it possible that one of your developers, without your knowledge, improved something in the behavior of bots?
Previously, bots used rifle grenades, but they did not have a guaranteed script for using rifle grenades against machine gunners. That is, before they could not use them in combat against machine gunners, but now they use them in all 100% of cases, and they often use them so that when I play as a machine gunner I die from the explosion of these grenades, so in most cases I do not see the shooter because it shoots with these grants along the mortar trajectory of ballistics.
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Is it possible that one of your developers, without your knowledge, improved something in the behavior of bots?
That is impossible, the only change made to 2.58 was to the launcher and the bren carrier crash fix on Port en Bessin. All other beta changes were held back. Also, nobody is working on AI and any change is shown in our automatic changelog. We also didn't change the MP40 recoil. It is all in your head, I'm afraid.
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Is it possible that one of your developers, without your knowledge, improved something in the behavior of bots?
That is impossible, the only change made to 2.58 was to the launcher and the bren carrier crash fix on Port en Bessin. All other beta changes were held back. Also, nobody is working on AI and any change is shown in our automatic changelog. We also didn't change the MP40 recoil. It is all in your head, I'm afraid.
I say for sure that there were no such changes before, and then I got them. Maybe the fact is that I also added a pack of new cards weighing several gigabytes to the standard version of FH2 2.58? It seems that this pack is from some fans of the game. Is it possible that in this package there were some other script files for bot behavior that changed and improved them?
Another improvement about half a year ago was that in the version up to 2.57, bots did not shoot at light tanks from rifle grenade launchers, and in version 2.57, they began to shoot from rifle grenade launchers at light tanks and destroy them. Because of this, playing light tanks with bots has become much more difficult. Isn't it the same with you? Do you have bots shooting rifle grenade launchers at light tanks? If you do not believe me, I can record a video of how, driving a light tank Stuart on Omaha Beach, I see how German bots shoot at me from rifle grenade launchers, and quite often get into my tank.
Regarding the MP-40 and MP-38: Should the recoil of these two submachine guns be the same? I now have the recoil of the MP-40 in version 2.58 slightly lower than that of the MP-38, despite the high rate of fire of the MP-40. So I did one more experiment on screenshots
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zgLiG_Emrwn1eKPi-rG04n7p6KmhZnSQ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1udwn43h0bj2ZQrk-tv0u_KSRMTFHXYB5/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QeADsMBN9VJt4UnYUCrGIm6bOf3pSll6/view?usp=sharing
Standing in the same position, I aimed at the level of the beginning of the flagpole in the ground and fired 17 shots in a continuous burst from both submachine guns. On the second and third screenshots, you can see that the barrel of the MP-40 stopped slightly lower than that of the MP-38. In the MP-38, the front sight of the barrel entered the flag in the background, while in the MP-40 it did not reach the flag. I checked this several times, all several times the barrel of the MP-40 against the background of the flagpole stopped slightly lower than that of the MP-38. In skirmishes with bots, this is manifested in the fact that controlling the queues from the MP-40 has become a little easier than from the MP-38, despite the high rate of fire of the MP-40. Because of this, in shootings on Al Alamein 16, I often threw my MP-38 and picked up the MP-40 from the officer's corpse, because the recoil from the MP-40 is easier to control.
If this is different with your submachine guns, then either I have some bugs with the game, or it is one of your programmers who makes some changes, but you do not know about them. In our VKontakte group, they also told me that they had not made any such changes, but I have them.
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I say for sure that there were no such changes before, and then I got them. Maybe the fact is that I also added a pack of new cards weighing several gigabytes to the standard version of FH2 2.58? It seems that this pack is from some fans of the game. Is it possible that in this package there were some other script files for bot behavior that changed and improved them?
Not possible.
Another improvement about half a year ago was that in the version up to 2.57, bots did not shoot at light tanks from rifle grenade launchers, and in version 2.57, they began to shoot from rifle grenade launchers at light tanks and destroy them. Because of this, playing light tanks with bots has become much more difficult. Isn't it the same with you? Do you have bots shooting rifle grenade launchers at light tanks? If you do not believe me, I can record a video of how, driving a light tank Stuart on Omaha Beach, I see how German bots shoot at me from rifle grenade launchers, and quite often get into my tank.
Not true. As I already told you. Bots use riflegrenades since FH 2.0.
Regarding the MP-40 and MP-38: Should the recoil of these two submachine guns be the same?
Those are not the same guns, so no. Also, recoil is to some extend randomised, so you can't really compare those.
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Not true. As I already told you. Bots use riflegrenades since FH 2.0.
What is not true? That bots don't use rifle grenades against light tanks? Or that they bots do not shoot them on a mortar ballistic trajectory at the machine gunner even if they cannot see him?
I can throw a video and show examples of this
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So I uploaded a video to a google drive with a demonstration that my MP-38 recoil is more than that of the MP-40. Try it yourself and see.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hZo3rSjNG86y4FOhMsYcIQtq6lfzyCH7/view?usp=sharing
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So I uploaded a video to a google drive with a demonstration that my MP-38 recoil is more than that of the MP-40. Try it yourself and see.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hZo3rSjNG86y4FOhMsYcIQtq6lfzyCH7/view?usp=sharing
No one ever denied that.
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For those who did not believe me and said that this could not be:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KKjEcqPWAb6B-HgVyJCj1ycWs9yGDc4O/view?usp=sharing
I post a video in which on the El Alamein 16 map I play with bots. I am the first to go to the road with a fence near the second German flag. I take a position near the fence and kill with a machine gun some of the British infantry who emerged from the hill. In the last seconds of the video, you can see that as soon as I shoot the last bullets from the machine gun, 3 rifle grenades fly into me at once along a mortar trajectory, although none of the opponents saw me from behind the hill. At the last second before my death, I also managed to turn around on the road that leads to the rise to my right and see that there was still none of the English there. This suggests that there is no shot with these grenades on the right at me. These three grenades came at me exactly along the mortar trajectory from the front.
Half a year ago, in the spring of 2021, this was not the case in version 2.57. The bots used rifle grenades, but they never fired them at me like a bottom-up mortar trajectory.
If this is a bug, then this bug is good for the game with bots. Previously, it was possible for a long time to sit with a machine gun in a closed position and shoot enemy infantry for a long time until the cartridges run out, but now this is impossible. I often have to change positions, otherwise a rifle grenade immediately flies at me. Although I doubt that this is a bug, because besides machine gunners, bots began to use rifle grenades on light tanks as well. They didn't do it before.
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No one ever denied that.
Only I didn't mean that after that it was necessary to make the recoil of the MP-40 as high as that of the MP-38, rather the opposite. Probably on the contrary, It would be better, on the contrary, to reduce the MP-38 recoil to the MP-40 level, as well as remove the overestimated recoil of the first shot in each turn. And maybe then it will be more pleasant to shoot with submachine guns. Although this is still not enough.
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MP38 and MP40 are coded with identical recoil, but due to the quicker rate of fire the game doesn't render all the recoil frames on the MP40. This makes it fire smoother. We might fix that in the future, but it is non-trivial and also not part of weapon coding. It would require high level changes to the exe which only few people know how to do.
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MP38 and MP40 are coded with identical recoil, but due to the quicker rate of fire the game doesn't render all the recoil frames on the MP40. This makes it fire smoother. We might fix that in the future, but it is non-trivial and also not part of weapon coding. It would require high level changes to the exe which only few people know how to do.
I did not mean that you need to make the MP-40 recoil as high as that of the MP-38. On the contrary, it would be better to make the recoil of the MP-38 as smooth as that of the MP-40, that is, to reduce it. This is an element of improving the gameplay. I think that many would vote for this if there was such a vote. If necessary, I can write it.
What is your priority now in terms of game development? Creating new maps?
I know that resources in game development are always limited. If your priority is to create new maps, then I could write a vote on what is more important for FH2 fans - creating new maps, or improving the gameplay. It seems to me that the majority would vote for the priority to improve the gameplay.
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I think you are not understanding me: This phenomenon is not related to weapon recoil settings, but the game tickrate and how recoil frames are rendered. It is not something we can easily fix.
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I think you are not understanding me: This phenomenon is not related to weapon recoil settings, but the game tickrate and how recoil frames are rendered. It is not something we can easily fix.
I got it. The fact that you said that sometime in the future this can be corrected is already good. It makes me happy. But I think you will have to divert the time of the developers of the mod for this from something else. What else are you doing now? What's your other priority? Is the creation of new maps a priority? I think most fans of the game would like to prioritize improving the gameplay over creating new maps. I think when choosing between these two priorities, most fans would vote to improve the gameplay instead of creating new maps. If necessary, I can write such a vote.
People will play little on new maps if the gameplay is burdened with a number of unpleasant things that make it much worse than it could be. For the same reason, you have a fairly small influx of new audiences. I can tell you what exactly would be worth changing to improve the gameplay.
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What else are you doing now? What's your other priority? Is the creation of new maps a priority? I think most fans of the game would like to prioritize improving the gameplay over creating new maps. I think when choosing between these two priorities, most fans would vote to improve the gameplay instead of creating new maps. If necessary, I can write such a vote.
People will play little on new maps if the gameplay is burdened with a number of unpleasant things that make it much worse than it could be. For the same reason, you have a fairly small influx of new audiences. I can tell you what exactly would be worth changing to improve the gameplay.
First, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I'm glad there's still people who are very passionate about Forgotten Hope, I know I certainly am :)
I will say that at this time, the current developers of this mod are focused on multiplayer gameplay. So yes, we're working on creating new maps, new guns, vehicles etc... to give our players new content. Singleplayer is unfortunately not a priority of ours. I understand there are a lot of people who play this game who only play singleplayer, but the majority of our developers are better equipped to mod the multiplayer side of the game.
Singleplayer in Battlefield 2 was more of an afterthought by DICE, and as such, lots of aspects about it are hardcoded and not easy to make meaningful changes to. Not to mention that the amount of people out there who both know how to mod singleplayer for this game and want to mod for such an old engine are few and far between. So just as the original Battlefield 2 game focused on multiplayer with singleplayer added on as an option for some maps, Forgotten Hope 2 is doing the same; we're a multiplayer focused game and when we have time and resources we try to attend to singleplayer issues as best we can.
We don't currently believe that our "gameplay is burdened with a number of unpleasant things that make it much worse than it could be" with regards to our multiplayer gameplay. There's certainly some things we'd like to improve, but they are not related to the singleplayer at this time.
That being said, we are always looking for people who are able to make improvements to our singleplayer side of the game; namely making navmeshes & GPOs for new maps so they can be enjoyed by the singleplayer community as soon as possible. However, outside of providing new content, there's not much we can do. I believe that our singleplayer already incorporates most, if not all changes/ improvements that every other Battlefield 2 mod includes. If there's something that they've done that we haven't incorporated yet, it could be something we could look into.
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We don't currently believe that our "gameplay is burdened with a number of unpleasant things that make it much worse than it could be" with regards to our multiplayer gameplay. There's certainly some things we'd like to improve, but they are not related to the singleplayer at this time.
You may have mistakenly thought that I was suggesting gameplay improvements in bot mode, but I didn't mean it. I also meant the multiplayer mode of play with other players. Here I can advise what it would be better to change for the better to make the gameplay more enjoyable. One such example is the overestimated recoil of the first shot in the line of submachine guns http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=22319.0
Because of it, it is impossible to shoot from submachine guns in short bursts of 2-3 rounds at distances of 100 meters. I think you will not argue that in addition to the game mode with bots, this disadvantage also worsens the network mode with live players.
There are several other similar disadvantages.
I can help in the sense that to draw your attention to them, perhaps suggest how it would be better to change it, and put it to the vote of the fans so that it would be clear whether the fans want it or not. I have experience in such things. I wrote similar changes for the games The Long Dark, Commulative pack 2.1, Stalker Misery falk mod 2.3 and some of them were implemented by the developers in these games.
Tell me on your forum in the topic "Suggestions" is there a limit on the number of topics and votes?
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Tell me on your forum in the topic "Suggestions" is there a limit on the number of topics and votes?
You're free to make suggestions on this forum, but keep in mind that it is mostly "dead." The majority of our users have moved to discord at this point. While we do check here once in a while, you won't get many responses apart from long time veterans who know about this site or new users who've stumbled on it.
Regarding suggestions; you're technically free to make as many as you'd like. However, I'd also keep in mind that the developers of this game are made up mostly of people who've been playing this mod for 10+ years. We also know a lot about what the BF2 engine is and isn't capable of, so many suggestions usually fall into 2 categories;
-desired but not possible
-not desired
Not to discourage people from asking new things, but keep that in mind when making a suggestion. We also have rules against spam on this forum and our discord, so many new threads popping up with suggestions and getting no responses can become useless spam very easily.
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You're free to make suggestions on this forum, but keep in mind that it is mostly "dead."
The forum is "dead" because the gameplay in terms of firefights with small arms since version 2.4 has slightly deteriorated due to the fact that you increased the recoil of submachine guns, removed the crosshairs from the screen, and made some other changes that made the shooting process worse than it was. I myself have been playing FH2 with bots since 2009 and I remember what the first versions 2.0, 2.1 were like. In these first versions, the shooting process with small arms was more enjoyable than it is now. I have some guesses why, starting with version 2.4, you did this and how to fix it so that it would be better.
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That's a... bold statement to make :D I think the forum is "dead" because we (along with most modern games) have switched over to communicating on discord. The years of IRC and forums are about at an end, so our community has moved and grown elsewhere. Make no mistake, this forum is dead, but FH2 is alive and well. We have many people that enjoy the game, and I'm glad for that. That's why we're still taking the time to develop the mod and add new content more than a decade later.
I don't think you'll find many here who share your sentiment that the shooting process has gotten 'worse' over each release. In fact, I know that I and many other devs feel that this has only been improved upon; the removal of the crosshair and other changes were welcome additions to our multiplayer gameplay.
In other words, a lot of us are satisfied with the direction that FH2 has taken as it's grown, and we hope to keep it growing in that direction in the future.
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Matthew_Baker and Ts4EVER please tell me if my assumption is correct that you increased the recoil of submachine guns in version 2.3 because they were too powerful a weapon and too many people chose them as the main one, not only at close range but also on rough terrain?
And was it influenced by the fact that for the same reason you removed the crosshairs from the screen?
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My man, 2.3 was released over a decade ago (damn, time flies), I pretty sure even Ts4EVER wasn't a dev back then lol neither of us can speak to why the devs from 10 years ago did what they did. However, I can personally say that I enjoy the removal of the crosshair and how SMGs perform in-game right now, and that we have no real plans to change that at the moment.
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If the result of the poll doesn't please you, will you delete it as you did for the previous one ?
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If the result of the poll doesn't please you, will you delete it as you did for the previous one ?
It is unlikely that moderation will delete my polls even if she does not like the results of these polls