Author Topic: More whitewash  (Read 7917 times)

Biiviz

  • Guest
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #30 on: 10-03-2012, 14:03:27 »
Germans didn't use tungsten ammo anymore in late war.

More info on that here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=163333

Basically, the Allies managed to cut off the Germans by negotiating with and blackmailing the suppliers, Portugal and Spain.

Offline THeTA0123

  • The north remembers
  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16.842
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #31 on: 10-03-2012, 14:03:58 »
Germans didn't use tungsten ammo anymore in late war.
^this

Any tungsten that was found was used on the eastfront
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline hyperanthropos

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #32 on: 10-03-2012, 14:03:43 »
The Puma doesn´t have and I doubt it will have Pzgr40 again. Reason for that was that it was better than Shermans although being a scout car. I think you should have a certain ability in scout cars (Puma, Daimler, Greyhound). Something that would be special for scouting vehicles. I have no idea atm. but something could be done to encourage players to use them in their intended role. The deletion of Pzgr40 on the Puma was one step in the right direction.

I once heard that the Hetzer will lose it´s Pzgr40 in the next patch albeit being a tank destroyer. This I can´t understand, the thing is weak as hell and also needs to get rid of its ridicolous frontal armour that doesn´t deflect 75mm or 57mms.

Sad to hear that the Puma probably wont get its Panzergranate 40 back. But my other points are still valid in my opinion. The Allies also get there scoutcars (not all of them) at forward command posts, so please place the Puma not in the base. I think it isnt usefull at the beginning of the round, sice every third american has a bazooka at this point and there are notmuch vehicles you could hunt.

I had also thought about the idea of giving scout cars some king of extra ability. Maybe spotting for arty (Would that be codeable? You can do it with a SCOUT plane why not with SCOUT car?)
-Maybe we should bring that ina suggestion threat.

And what has to mentioned when talking about the Puma: Please change the turret acceleration its ridiculous, compare to other vehicles. And I think there are no historical facts to justify it.

OMG the Hetzer loosing it special ammo, the thing will get completly use less. From my experienca its most unused tank in the German arsenal. On Meuse river line its very often unused in the base. As I mentioned its the same thing with it at Margaret (Bastogne).
Would it be justifiable to make it a little faster? And yes Butcher your absolutly right the frontal armour is paper....
« Last Edit: 10-03-2012, 14:03:53 by hyperanthropos »

Offline Butcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1.839
  • ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #33 on: 10-03-2012, 14:03:50 »
I know Germans were short of tungsten (didn´t have it), although i didn´t know that Spain and Portugal had it. I just heard that the Hetzer would lose it and wondered (it sounded like only the Hetzer). So this change will apply to the Jagdpanzer IV (the only armoured vehicle I can think of that has Pzgr40 atm in the Ardennes) also?

And Tungsten wasn´t needed to penetrate regular Shermans with the standard gun (75mm/L48) on combat ranges. :/
He got banned for our sins. He was not the member FH forums deserved, he was the member we needed.

Offline hyperanthropos

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #34 on: 10-03-2012, 15:03:06 »
And Tungsten wasn´t needed to penetrate regular Shermans with the standard gun (75mm/L48) on combat ranges. :/

What the Hetzer cant even penetrate Shermans? Is that what you`r saying? omg

Btw the Jagdpanther has special ammo too. But for the Jagdpanzer IV and the Jadgpanther losing their special ammo wouldn`t be that much of a deal.
For the Hetzer....if nothing is changed in its favor. Just make it a static with motor noise and put in the woods scaring shermans...so they are distractet and you can blwo them up with your Faust/Geballte.

Offline Butcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1.839
  • ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #35 on: 11-03-2012, 16:03:36 »
And Tungsten wasn´t needed to penetrate regular Shermans with the standard gun (75mm/L48) on combat ranges. :/
What the Hetzer cant even penetrate Shermans? Is that what you`r saying? omg

Every vehicle with the 75mm/L48 can´t penetrate Shermans reliably from the front with standard AP-rounds in FH2. It takes 2 hits to kill a Sherman to the turret ring. The ones in the Ardennes (M4A3) strangely bounce AP-hits to the frontal hull on a regular basis. Also I´m not sure whether the issue with the Sherman II with the 76mm gun has been fixed. That one always had some strange frontal armour despite being a Sherman II with just another gun.

Just aim for the hull of the regular Shermans and you should get a kill. The M4A3s have some chance to stand hits even to the hull, at least that happened several times now. Pray that the angle system doesn´t kick you in the nuts.

It´s rather frustrating when your Hetzer hits a Sherman that stands the shot and in return frontally 1 shots you with its stubby gun. I like the Hetzer but StuGs (on Vossenack) are the better choice.
He got banned for our sins. He was not the member FH forums deserved, he was the member we needed.

Offline THeTA0123

  • The north remembers
  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16.842
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #36 on: 11-03-2012, 23:03:08 »
here's a funny fact

Did you knew the PZIV's ausf H gun needed to be in range of 400 meters to penetrate the M4A3 shermans hull? in reality?

And since FH2 range is applied to 500 meters
I know that´s no good source, but if you also look at Wikipedia and look for the Churchill Mk. IIIs frontal armour which is 102mm on the hull and 89mm on the turret front and then compare it to the 88mm/L56 penetration-values it doesnt sound unlikely to me. The penetration of the 88/L56 with regular ammunition alone was 91mm @1500metres. The Flak 18 with the Panzergranate 39 (common shell) had a penetration of 97mm @1500 metres. So a hit in the turret could possibly well take a churchill out. With special ammunition a penetration did have better chances.

It´s definatly better than saying "lol churchill didn´t get penetrated at all".

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill_%28Panzer%29 (german words for it are Wannenbug and Turmfront)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_KwK_36 (in this case the slightly different 88 from the tiger)
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/88mm-flak-series-flugabwehrkanone.htm

Edit: This is no rant, but I just don´t believe that 88s were totally ineffective versus Churchills. I don´t doubt that they didn´t fight them properly on Kidney ridge but in theory they could have when aiming for the tower.
You look at wikipedia

Every german item wiki page is filled with ooh so praised articles bout HOW super awesome it was
Go check the same thing for allied equipment..They are filled with articles bout how BAD it was.

Michael wittmans victory at villers bocage? called a skillfull attack and usage of heavy armour!

The battle of a few KVS at Krasnogvardeysk where they ripped trough the 8th panzer devision?
For a YEAR it stood on wikipedia that it was an unfair battle because german tanks couldnt penetrate the KV's armour. They had to bloody hell LOCK the article up because of german fanboys constant editing it twisting it to there side. And historians still do this today. I see the exact same thing Day after day on every militaria fair where people have been brainwashed believing that everything german was supertoll. Siben can agree with me here.

And the Flak 88's did fired at the churchills, and they DID fired at the turret and in one tank they managed to penetrate it.


Here you go.
But hull penetrations? Forget it. They dint managed a single penetration.
Besides, it was never even proven that LT Appleby's tank was penetrated by german guns, because they came under friendly fire aswel

Can you please for once get your ass out of your constant german religion and accept that the germans also got there asses kicked in the war?
« Last Edit: 11-03-2012, 23:03:30 by THeTA0123 »
-i am fairly sure that if they took porn off the internet, there would only be one website left and it would be called bring back the porn "Perry cox, Scrubs.

Offline Musti

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.734
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #37 on: 11-03-2012, 23:03:10 »
Oh geez, just stop it. It doesn't matter how it was IRL. Its a game. Panther is a 2-shot kill for a Sherman for no other reason than balancing.Just deal with it. As long as its not too far away from reality (Like not being able to damage Panther from the side with 37mm, or lousy canister shots for the said cannon)
Just stop complaining.
WARNING!
Assholes are closer than they appear!

Offline Yustax

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.020
  • German bias forevah!
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #38 on: 12-03-2012, 05:03:29 »
Oh geez, just stop it. It doesn't matter how it was IRL. Its a game. Panther is a 2-shot kill for a Sherman for no other reason than balancing.Just deal with it. As long as its not too far away from reality (Like not being able to damage Panther from the side with 37mm, or lousy canister shots for the said cannon)
Just stop complaining.

*Round of applause*

Couldnt say it better myself. The mod needs balance, pseudo realism, but more balance than realism. So it doesnt matter if this gun could penetrate the hull of x tank at such distances, because their damages and what they score against all vehicles is already set on stone.

Theta, stop fucking complaining, you do this everyday, even in game, I have even knifed you while you type "because axis bias and this vehicle could do this and bla bla bla". And my allias is a joke anyway. If the devs and the historians want to change it, then they will do it.

Balance first, realism later.

Let's take this thread over to what it was before, the models and textures. Stop derailing it.

Offline hyperanthropos

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: More whitewash
« Reply #39 on: 12-03-2012, 13:03:55 »
Wow I tought i brought this threat back to some ONtopic, aparently that was an false assumption.

Thanks to the two guys above.