Author Topic: Death Parade  (Read 4771 times)

Offline Oddball

  • Positive Wave Director
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1.938
  • In Alliance with "Lumberjack Cammandos"....
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #30 on: 27-07-2010, 04:07:57 »
Rather Ironic. Hippies? Can't coordinate or handle much of anything. Anyways, I can't stand to be in a crowd of amongst 200, never-mind 1 Million +, forget it. If you’re so claustrophobic, why do you put yourself in that situation?! I'm not claustrophobic, but damn, I need my space and I know my limits...

See what love does to you, it mingles and mangles with the brain until it distorts it to the stage of complete FUBAR and makes you unable to think straight and incidents like this become inevitable.
« Last Edit: 27-07-2010, 04:07:20 by Oddball »

Offline Ts4EVER

  • Banner of THeTA0123
  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 7.812
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #31 on: 27-07-2010, 04:07:03 »
These stampedes happen at many different events where many people are gathered, including religious events, so pinning it on Hippies seems a bit stupid.

Offline Oddball

  • Positive Wave Director
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1.938
  • In Alliance with "Lumberjack Cammandos"....
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #32 on: 27-07-2010, 04:07:42 »
Yeah, well....they do happen every year during the Hajj in Mecca...I can see where you're going with this...I like it! Maybe there is some kind of connection going on here?  ;) I think you're onto something.  :o

Offline Ts4EVER

  • Banner of THeTA0123
  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 7.812
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #33 on: 27-07-2010, 04:07:52 »
Yeah, the connection is that if you shove too many excitable people into a small area someone is bound to panic.

Offline Oddball

  • Positive Wave Director
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1.938
  • In Alliance with "Lumberjack Cammandos"....
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #34 on: 27-07-2010, 04:07:00 »
Yeah, the connection is that if you shove too many excitable people into a small area someone is bound to panic.
Nope, nope.. I don't think that's it. Hmm... maybe if we put a little more thought into it, we'll think of something.  :P

Offline :| Hi

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4.944
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #35 on: 27-07-2010, 06:07:28 »
These stampedes happen at many different events where many people are gathered, including religious events, so pinning it on Hippies seems a bit stupid.

"I SEE [Insert higher being here] IN THAT LIGHT BULB!!"
*crowd surges with various people dying

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline Ts4EVER

  • Banner of THeTA0123
  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 7.812
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #36 on: 27-07-2010, 13:07:05 »
Yeah, the connection is that if you shove too many excitable people into a small area someone is bound to panic.
Nope, nope.. I don't think that's it. Hmm... maybe if we put a little more thought into it, we'll think of something.  :P

Oh yeah right, now I know, those people are all different from you!

Offline hslan.totaler_humbug

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 567
    • View Profile
    • hslan
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #37 on: 27-07-2010, 14:07:24 »
First of all:
There were never at any time more then 200.000 people on the area, also the crowd in which ppl died wasn´t that huge (maybe 2000 max). The 1.4 million people were spread of over the whole city. Still the festival area was way to small, but that was not the cause for the desaster

The problem was, that there was only one entrance and exit at the same place. Means that the people who are coming and the people who are going needed to go exactly the same way, with no kind fence between them. This would have helped a lot.
When the police saw, that the festival area will get too crowed they closed it. Now the people who are at the beginning of the 100m tunnel which lead to the entrance didn´t knew about that still pushed forward. Together with the people which were still going out of the area it came to the desaster

Here a picture from the entrance:


You are looking from the festival entrace to the two tunnels from which the people were coming. In this area the desaster took place. To the left you can see some masts for lights. In the middle you see some kind of container and to the right you see some stairs directly a the right tunnel entrance.
These three things were the most used way to get out of the crowd once you couldn´t get forth an back. Because the people were seeing this as their only way to get out everybody wanted to get there, which lets to the pressure around this cokepoints. Finally because of stupidness, being drunk, stoned, whatever some people fell down those exits into the crowd. This let to the panik and even more pressure to everybody.

See those picture for what I mean:






This leads to the conclusion that there were three main mistakes, besides from the mistakes in the pre-planing, made during the event:
1. Closing the area. It was not even full, and even then you wouldn´t have had such a close crowd like in the tunnel
2. Let the people leave the area into the crowd.
3. Don´t inform the people on the way to the festival that the area is closed. There were announcements, but they were too late. Also why not closing the tunnels instead of the entrance itself.
4. Don´t close the exits the people used. If the people wouldn´t have used the stairs, container or mast to get out there wouldn´t have been such a panic. Because there would have been nobody falling down on them. This sounds very controversal, but eliminating these ways would have reduced the pressure from for example the beginning of the stairs to the whole entrance area. 70% of all deads were infront of the stairs (look at the picute above). To proof this I´ve got this picture whch was taken shortly after the desaster. You can clearly see the people going crazy for the only exit out of that crowd, in their eyes, leaving large areas uncrowed.
We need to be able, to throw Thermos out of Spotterplanes.

Offline Smiles

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 2.088
  • Boooo Auto-Spot! Booo
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #38 on: 27-07-2010, 14:07:25 »
Well yeaaa.. bound to happen wasnt it? I definitly wouldnt call it stupidity of the crowd. Its one of those things we still react on after thousand years humanity.
I would say its a bit stupid they let m passs through a small corridor like that.
Its a horrible death.
I'm taking my own freedom
puttin' it in my song
singing loud and strong
proving all day long
I'm takin' my freedom
puttin' it in my stroll
I'll be hop-steppin' y'all
lettin' the joy unfold

Offline von.small

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.455
  • Last of my kind
    • View Profile
    • WEARMEME
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #39 on: 27-07-2010, 14:07:19 »
Hillsbourough (footbal stadium) disaster in 85' where 96 people died in a crowd crush, shone a light on just how Orwellian England had become, nobody could do anything about it once the 'crush' started because of the anti-holligan fences that had been errected to stop pitch invasions, worked the opposite way and meant that nobody could be saved.  People simply had to watch people die - and it all got broadcast on TV.   :-\  A very strange day, the whole country stopped.
HadrianBT - Why the hell would "Germany" attack pigmy ppl??!!
Thorondor123 - I agree that people are not wearing enough hats

Offline Timmay9/11

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Toff Opic
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #40 on: 27-07-2010, 15:07:27 »
Was someone of you on the Loveparade?

Well, since I live in Duisburg I had to go there.  Actually I don’t like techno but for one day it was okay for me. I managed to get fancy rave clothing and dressed like an idiot I vanished in the masses of strange people. Getting there through the tunnel was no problem and when I arrived around 2 o clock there was still plenty of space.
Wasted like a horse I enjoyed this 1,4 million people casserole of simple electronic music I would never enjoy in case I would be sober.  Nearly every 20 minutes someone wanted to sell my pills n stuff, well hat was somehow funny. When I was younger I really got pissed on parties when people asked me for marihuana just because I had long hair and that made me in their eyes a potential pothead.  That was nothing compared to the drug deals on the Loveparade who really had an eye on me.  
When I went back home around half past 5 or 4 ? cant remember that,   everything happened already. The Police already closed  the ramp to get to the tunnel to go back the main train station. So I walked next the ramp and was able to look blank at the bodies on the ground, some already covered with body backs,  some still uncovered.  
Everywhere people with injuries, lots of medics, lots of people with an asking facial expression. Well, thanks to the alcohol I saw all of this,  but actually did not understand it,  just saw that and continued walking home.

What I did not knew at that time was that my girl was down there.  She had luck.  She was in the crowed when that happened and she started to feel dizzy (sometimes she just have out of nothing a circulatory collapse) Well, she was feeling that this is going to happen soon if she stays in the overwhelming crowed there. One of her friends tried to convince her to get to the stairs (yup, the stairs you see on the news) and climp the way up to the love parade. Than here circulatory collapsed and she tumbled. Fortunately a unknown big guy picked her up before other’s could accidentally stamped an her and helped her to get out of there.


This is a sad thing that happened there but what is going on right now makes me a bit angry. Everywhere in the media suddenly people pop up and sardonic tell the world that they warned and that everybody knew that something is going to happen. Some even more smart asses proclaim that the ruhr area is not capable for such big festivals, the people of the ruhr should leave that to real metropolis. That’s really wicked,  the ruhr is the (tell me if I am wrong) he largest urban agglomeration in Europe. It is a metropolitan region of more than 12 million people.  So, what? Real metropolis? It even sounds like they assume the people who managed the loveparade, that they did that on purpose. Well you can argue on the tunnel - ramp combo as only entrance but one thing is for sure, there well never be total safety.  Something unexpected can happen every time but some people seem to forget that right now. Lord Mayer Sauerland`s political career is terminated, that’s fur sure. Well, on the one hand I could now say,  yay down the the CDU,  but actually Mr. Sauerland was IMO a good Lord Mayer, and I am really happy that he did not close the independence cinema and some other spots of cultural live in Duisburg although the city needs to save money where ever it can.

On the loveparade itself,  well I really enjoyed it as far as I can say and I am a bit unhappy about the fact that this was the last parade. I cant follow the logic…  

      
And yea,  I am thinking about a T-Shirt

I survived Loveparade 2010
« Last Edit: 27-07-2010, 16:07:02 by Timmay9/11 »
There is only one thing I’m afraid of,  Nazi Zombies!!!
And remember Kids, never say these words on a nazi graveyard
ia ia cthulhu fhtagn ia ia nazi zombie fhtang

Offline DLFReporter

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 4.727
  • Betatesting FH2 makes me edgy...
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #41 on: 27-07-2010, 16:07:50 »
I have one question: Why on earth would you let your girl go alone and out of your sight in such a mass?!
Gravity is a habit that is hard to shake off

Offline NTH

  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 3.146
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #42 on: 27-07-2010, 16:07:45 »
That happens with large masses.
Happended to me to on a festival. One second I was holding hands with her the next we got split faster and harder then Moses parted the sea.


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
(From: First in the Field, Gault of the Patricias by Jeffery Williams, page 72.)

Offline Oddball

  • Positive Wave Director
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1.938
  • In Alliance with "Lumberjack Cammandos"....
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #43 on: 27-07-2010, 17:07:26 »
What Reporter said and 2.) how do you know if you really enjoyed it if you were wasted the entire time...?

Offline Timmay9/11

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Toff Opic
    • View Profile
Re: Death Parade
« Reply #44 on: 27-07-2010, 19:07:34 »
Well N24Reporter

I guess with 21 she is old enough to go outside on her own, anyway as soon as I would start to act like the big protector she would laugh at me and than leave me xD
We (my friends) could not agree on a place to drink since there where two parties available. So I and some of my friends went to one place and my gf and the others went to the other place, we agreed to meet later at the love parade itself or at least by no later than the after show party in my flat.


And,  I was not that wasted to not know if I enjoyed something or not
There is only one thing I’m afraid of,  Nazi Zombies!!!
And remember Kids, never say these words on a nazi graveyard
ia ia cthulhu fhtagn ia ia nazi zombie fhtang