Poll

Which sniping element upgrade option is best for FH2?

First option
1 (100%)
Second option
0 (0%)
Third option
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 1

Author Topic: Do I need to increase the sniping element in FH2? And if so, how exactly?  (Read 207 times)

Offline Pa3ym2

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Judging by the vote, the majority of the Russian-speaking audience of the mod shares my opinion that an increase in the sniping element would seriously increase the interest and popularity of the game
https://vk.com/forgottenhope?w=wall-14079341_19935/all
I will offer 3 options for how exactly it would be possible to increase the sniping element in the game, and you vote which option would be the best for the game:

1) First option: add a sniper rifle to the weapon selection menu on all or most maps. For example, a scout. Or make some snipers as the second limited weapon for an infantryman with a regular rifle, as they did for example with the second weapon of an officer. In total, there will be, for example, from 1 to 4 snipers for the entire team, depending on the map. This measure seems to me the most successful, because, in contrast to this, machine guns could be changed for the better. One of the developers told me that the machine guns became an embarrassment in camper positions. If you add more snipers, then machine guns would have a counter-measure in the form of snipers. Then machine guns would not be such an imboy. I read the memoirs of World War II veterans on both sides of the war. In reality, on the battlefield, the main danger for a machine gunner was a sniper or mortar. True, if you introduce a sniper as a separate class, then this can lead to the weakening of machine guns, and you will have to improve machine guns in turn. But the possibilities for improving machine guns are already very large. Machine guns can be strengthened by giving all machine guns the ability to fire while standing, giving them greater accuracy from the hip. Give less recoil, greater zoom ratio, thinner and more comfortable aiming flies. Not the fact that machine guns will have to be improved, but this first option is just for introducing the sniper as a separate class in the weapon selection menu.

2) The second option: you can not make the sniper a separate class in the weapon selection menu, but add more sniper maps like Motovskaya Bay 32, on which sniper rifles are located at different points on the map near the main shooting areas.

3) The third option: you can not add a sniper as a separate class in the weapon selection menu, and do not make more sniper cards, but make it so that on those maps that have more snipers as separate kit lying at certain points. Here you may have to poll the audience of the mod and determine by majority vote on which maps you need to add snipers, in what places and in what quantity.

If someone has a better way to increase the sniping element in the game, then write in the comments. If you offer a better option, then I can erase this vote and file a new one with your additional option. 

Offline Pa3ym2

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I created a similar survey among the Russian-speaking audience https://vk.com/forgottenhope?w=wall-14079341_20004%2Fall

Offline Ts4EVER

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First of all, we don't care about polls, this isn't a democracy we are running here...
The reason sniper rifles are limited are:
1. Historically, with some exceptions like British paratroopers, these were company or platoon level assets, similar to heavy MGs or mortars. These weapons tend to be pickup only in FH2.
2. People always want to have more of "cool" assets on a map, but what they don't realize is that what makes these weapons "cool" is in part their rarity. If everyone can run around with them, a rare weapon system loses its appeal.
3. Gameplay-wise, unlimited snipers would slow down infantry combat by a lot and encourage tons of long range shooting with little movement. If 2 or 3 people do that with their sniper rifles, it is fine, but not too many.
4. Regarding the "memoirs" of veterans, note that many of them call any single rifleman shooting from a bush a "sniper" regardless of he had a scope or not. I looked at the original documents and can tell you that in the German or Russian army, far from everybody had a scope. It is not like in western armies today, where they hand those out like candy for every schmuck with an assault rifle.
5. You want 1- 4 sniper rifles in each team, but that is literally already the case on all of the 64p maps.

Offline Pa3ym2

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I create these polls in order to show you which way to improve the game is most in demand by the audience, and what needs to be done to increase the audience significantly more than now. Don't you want to increase the mod's audience?

If you are chasing history at the expense of interestingness, then this is the main reason for the mod's small audience.
For example, on French maps there is no MAS38 submachine gun, and many probably wanted to shoot with it. In reality, before the defeat of France in 1940, about 2000 of them were produced, and somewhere they were probably used. Why not make it on some map as a limited weapon in the weapon selection menu? This would increase the attractiveness and interest of French maps. All the same, there are many conventions in the game that contradict historical accuracy. In reality, many German machine gunners fired from machine guns while standing, but this is impossible to do in the game.

1) What is more important to you, historical accuracy? Or the enjoyment of the game and the significant growth of its audience? I saw that the developers and fans complained about the fact that the mod's audience is small. Maybe it's worth a little move away from historicity in favor of interestingness? The introduction of the limited-edition Mab 38 submachine gun and sniper rifle into the weapon selection menu is such a move that strays slightly from historical accuracy in favor of the game being interesting.

2) Disagree. Armament does not lose its attractiveness if it is effective. I often pick up sniper rifles in the first place because they are more effective than regular rifles.

3) I suggest to put from 1 to 3-4 snipers on the map depending on what it is. Let them be on average, for example, 1-2. It seems to be not so much that the players would move a little. But it will make the game more interesting.

4) The name is not important. I'm talking about the sniper scope.

5) The problem is that in order to raise a sniper kit, you often need to run to the place on the map where it lies. And in the game it often happens that there is no time to run to this place on the map. It often happens in the game that when you capture the enemy flag with a sniper and you are immediately killed. Then the choice arises: either spend time running again to the place where the sniper lies, but then this flag can be captured by enemies. Or appear on a newly captured flag as a simple soldier without optics. And most often you have to choose the second, and fight as a simple fighter without a sniper. Because of this, the fun of the game suffers. For this reason, I suggested introducing the sniper as a separate weapon in the weapon selection menu.
« Last Edit: 31-07-2022, 22:07:18 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline Ts4EVER

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The MAS 38 is actually ingame, you can use it on Flavion as the French or on Pegasus Bridge as the Germans.
You misunderstood me: I did not say that "effectiveness" makes a gun less interesting, but it being common and used by everyone makes it less special.
Also you are confusing historical accuracy with "realism" in gameplay. We don't care that much about realistic gameplay, because BF2 engine is not good material to build a military simulation. We do care about historical authenticity though, and having a big percentage of the infantry running around with scoped rifles is NOT an authentic WW2 experience, so we won't do it.

Offline Pa3ym2

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The MAS 38 is actually ingame, you can use it on Flavion as the French or on Pegasus Bridge as the Germans.
You misunderstood me: I did not say that "effectiveness" makes a gun less interesting, but it being common and used by everyone makes it less special.
Also you are confusing historical accuracy with "realism" in gameplay. We don't care that much about realistic gameplay, because BF2 engine is not good material to build a military simulation. We do care about historical authenticity though, and having a big percentage of the infantry running around with scoped rifles is NOT an authentic WW2 experience, so we won't do it.

Tell me, do you have any specific goal regarding the game?

Usually for game developers it is to make an interesting game that most players would be interested in playing. What is your goal?
Make an interesting game in which at the same time there will be a high level of historical accuracy?
In the case of the Second World War, these are little-compatible things. If you try to follow the canons of historical authenticity, then your interest will suffer greatly. Therefore, the game's audience will always remain small, and the creation of new maps will have little effect on this.

I'm not saying that there should be a lot of foot soldiers with sniper rifles, but on average 1-2 per side with the ability to select snipers in the weapon menu on 60% of the maps is not much.

I'm not saying that there should be a lot of Mas 38 infantrymen, but 2-3 with a choice in the weapon menu would be enough.

The ability to select this weapon in the menu is needed so that from the beginning to the end of the map you can play as a sniper, or as a soldier with Mas 38. If in the game after each death you have to run to a certain place on the map for a sniper rifle or Mas 38 in the place where they lie, it becomes impossible to constantly play for a sniper or a fighter with a mas-38. This is where the fun of the game suffers.

If you made it so that they could be selected in the weapon menu, then this would seriously increase the interestingness of the game. I can tell you a lot of things that would also increase the interest and audience of the game. And along with the interest, the audience of the game would increase. The larger the audience, the more fans could donate to you to further upgrade the game.
By upgrading the game to a certain level, you would have a several times larger audience than now, and having such an audience, you could start collecting money for a kickstarter to remake the game on a more modern engine that can implement all the features that you cannot implement on refractor 2 . For example, the developers of Neverwinter Nights went this way. They had a large fan base and began raising money on Kickstarter to create a new game. They raised $4 million and made a great RPG Pillars of Eternity

>On September 14, 2012, the Kickstarter campaign went live revealing further details of the project.[66] It completed its 1.1 million dollars objective in just over 24 hours, and the first set of "stretch goals" were announced.[67] Pillars of Eternity surpassed the $1.6 million mark five days after the fund-raising began.[68] It was announced an OS X version of the game would be provided together with a DRM-free option through GOG.com.[68] A Linux version was announced on September 21, 2012.[69] It passed the $2 million mark on September 26, 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Eternity

Even with the very limited engine that FH2 has now, I think you can increase the audience of the mod several times. But here you have to sacrifice a little historical accuracy in favor of the interestingness of the game. You'll have to do things like introducing the MAC38, the sniper rifle, and a few others into the weapon selection menu. We'll have to slightly change a number of conventions that make the process of firing weapons uncomfortable.

If you want to seriously increase the popularity and audience of a mod, then there is no other more effective way.
« Last Edit: 01-08-2022, 00:08:09 by Pa3ym2 »