Poll

Do you prefer to play FH2 with bots or with live people?

I only play with bots
3 (18.8%)
I only play with living people
8 (50%)
I play more with bots than with human beings
3 (18.8%)
I play more with live people than bots
1 (6.3%)
I play about half the time with bots, half with live people.
1 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Author Topic: A survey on how many players play with bots, and how many with live people  (Read 857 times)

Offline Pa3ym2

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I would like the developers to pay more attention to improving the game mode with bots. The voting among the Russian-speaking fans of FH2 showed that most of them play more with bots than with live players
https://vk.com/forgottenhope?w=wall-14079341_18967%2Fall

It seems to me that a similar survey should be conducted among the foreign and English-speaking audience of the game. If the percentage of players playing with bots will be more than with live players, then perhaps this will encourage developers to pay more attention to the game mode with bots.
« Last Edit: 03-11-2021, 00:11:03 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline Pa3ym2

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Tell me how the "topic" differs from the "poll" on this forum? Or is it no different?

Offline jan_kurator

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SP mode in the refractor 2 engine is a dead end, as most of the issues playing with bots have is caused by the hardcoded stuff of the BF2 we cannot change. Do not expect any updates in the SP / COOP department.

Bot support can be occasionally seen being added to stock and custom maps by some of the community members, look for those in the #singleplayer channel on our Discord, but no major improvements for the gameplay can be done.

Offline Pa3ym2

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SP mode in the refractor 2 engine is a dead end, as most of the issues playing with bots have is caused by the hardcoded stuff of the BF2 we cannot change. Do not expect any updates in the SP / COOP department.

But after all, in the last update, you made the bots fire a rifle grenade launcher at machine gunners. This was not the case in the penultimate version. Is it possible to do so that, for example, prohibit bots from taking out a knife / bayonet and fighting hand-to-hand?

Offline jan_kurator

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But after all, in the last update, you made the bots fire a rifle grenade launcher at machine gunners. This was not the case in the penultimate version. Is it possible to do so that, for example, prohibit bots from taking out a knife / bayonet and fighting hand-to-hand?
We never did that, nothing was changed in that regard in the latest patch. Bots use rifle grenades since their introduction in the 2.0 version.

Offline Pa3ym2

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But after all, in the last update, you made the bots fire a rifle grenade launcher at machine gunners. This was not the case in the penultimate version. Is it possible to do so that, for example, prohibit bots from taking out a knife / bayonet and fighting hand-to-hand?
We never did that, nothing was changed in that regard in the latest patch. Bots use rifle grenades since their introduction in the 2.0 version.

In this latest version 2.58, if I occupy somewhere a closed and invisible position with a machine gun, then after several killed enemy infantrymen, several rifle grenades immediately fly to the position where I am now and kill me almost always. They started firing rifle grenades like from a mortar - vertically up and down at me. They often shoot like this through a house or over a hill if they don't see me but hear that I am firing from a machine gun. Check it out for yourself. I say for sure that this has not happened before. This only appeared in the latest version 2.58. This is a clear improvement in bot behavior. Now you will not be able to sit in the same place with a machine gun and destroy enemy infantry in dozens as before. Is it possible that one of your developers, without your knowledge, improved something in the behavior of bots?

Previously, bots used rifle grenades, but they did not have a guaranteed script for using rifle grenades against machine gunners. That is, before they could not use them in combat against machine gunners, but now they use them in all 100% of cases, and they often use them so that when I play as a machine gunner I die from the explosion of these grenades, so in most cases I do not see the shooter because it shoots with these grants along the mortar trajectory of ballistics.
« Last Edit: 04-11-2021, 19:11:45 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline Ts4EVER

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Is it possible that one of your developers, without your knowledge, improved something in the behavior of bots?


That is impossible, the only change made to 2.58 was to the launcher and the bren carrier crash fix on Port en Bessin. All other beta changes were held back. Also, nobody is working on AI and any change is shown in our automatic changelog. We also didn't change the MP40 recoil. It is all in your head, I'm afraid.

Offline Pa3ym2

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Is it possible that one of your developers, without your knowledge, improved something in the behavior of bots?


That is impossible, the only change made to 2.58 was to the launcher and the bren carrier crash fix on Port en Bessin. All other beta changes were held back. Also, nobody is working on AI and any change is shown in our automatic changelog. We also didn't change the MP40 recoil. It is all in your head, I'm afraid.

I say for sure that there were no such changes before, and then I got them. Maybe the fact is that I also added a pack of new cards weighing several gigabytes to the standard version of FH2 2.58? It seems that this pack is from some fans of the game. Is it possible that in this package there were some other script files for bot behavior that changed and improved them?

Another improvement about half a year ago was that in the version up to 2.57, bots did not shoot at light tanks from rifle grenade launchers, and in version 2.57, they began to shoot from rifle grenade launchers at light tanks and destroy them. Because of this, playing light tanks with bots has become much more difficult. Isn't it the same with you? Do you have bots shooting rifle grenade launchers at light tanks? If you do not believe me, I can record a video of how, driving a light tank Stuart on Omaha Beach, I see how German bots shoot at me from rifle grenade launchers, and quite often get into my tank.

Regarding the MP-40 and MP-38: Should the recoil of these two submachine guns be the same? I now have the recoil of the MP-40 in version 2.58 slightly lower than that of the MP-38, despite the high rate of fire of the MP-40. So I did one more experiment on screenshots
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zgLiG_Emrwn1eKPi-rG04n7p6KmhZnSQ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1udwn43h0bj2ZQrk-tv0u_KSRMTFHXYB5/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QeADsMBN9VJt4UnYUCrGIm6bOf3pSll6/view?usp=sharing

Standing in the same position, I aimed at the level of the beginning of the flagpole in the ground and fired 17 shots in a continuous burst from both submachine guns. On the second and third screenshots, you can see that the barrel of the MP-40 stopped slightly lower than that of the MP-38. In the MP-38, the front sight of the barrel entered the flag in the background, while in the MP-40 it did not reach the flag. I checked this several times, all several times the barrel of the MP-40 against the background of the flagpole stopped slightly lower than that of the MP-38. In skirmishes with bots, this is manifested in the fact that controlling the queues from the MP-40 has become a little easier than from the MP-38, despite the high rate of fire of the MP-40. Because of this, in shootings on Al Alamein 16, I often threw my MP-38 and picked up the MP-40 from the officer's corpse, because the recoil from the MP-40 is easier to control.

If this is different with your submachine guns, then either I have some bugs with the game, or it is one of your programmers who makes some changes, but you do not know about them. In our VKontakte group, they also told me that they had not made any such changes, but I have them.


Offline jan_kurator

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I say for sure that there were no such changes before, and then I got them. Maybe the fact is that I also added a pack of new cards weighing several gigabytes to the standard version of FH2 2.58? It seems that this pack is from some fans of the game. Is it possible that in this package there were some other script files for bot behavior that changed and improved them?
Not possible.

Another improvement about half a year ago was that in the version up to 2.57, bots did not shoot at light tanks from rifle grenade launchers, and in version 2.57, they began to shoot from rifle grenade launchers at light tanks and destroy them. Because of this, playing light tanks with bots has become much more difficult. Isn't it the same with you? Do you have bots shooting rifle grenade launchers at light tanks? If you do not believe me, I can record a video of how, driving a light tank Stuart on Omaha Beach, I see how German bots shoot at me from rifle grenade launchers, and quite often get into my tank.
Not true. As I already told you. Bots use riflegrenades since FH 2.0.

Regarding the MP-40 and MP-38: Should the recoil of these two submachine guns be the same?
Those are not the same guns, so no. Also, recoil is to some extend randomised, so you can't really compare those.

Offline Pa3ym2

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Not true. As I already told you. Bots use riflegrenades since FH 2.0.

What is not true? That bots don't use rifle grenades against light tanks? Or that they bots do not shoot them on a mortar ballistic trajectory at the machine gunner even if they cannot see him?

I can throw a video and show examples of this
« Last Edit: 05-11-2021, 07:11:51 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline Pa3ym2

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So I uploaded a video to a google drive with a demonstration that my MP-38 recoil is more than that of the MP-40. Try it yourself and see.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hZo3rSjNG86y4FOhMsYcIQtq6lfzyCH7/view?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: 05-11-2021, 07:11:19 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline jan_kurator

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So I uploaded a video to a google drive with a demonstration that my MP-38 recoil is more than that of the MP-40. Try it yourself and see.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hZo3rSjNG86y4FOhMsYcIQtq6lfzyCH7/view?usp=sharing
No one ever denied that.

Offline Pa3ym2

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For those who did not believe me and said that this could not be:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KKjEcqPWAb6B-HgVyJCj1ycWs9yGDc4O/view?usp=sharing
I post a video in which on the El Alamein 16 map I play with bots. I am the first to go to the road with a fence near the second German flag. I take a position near the fence and kill with a machine gun some of the British infantry who emerged from the hill. In the last seconds of the video, you can see that as soon as I shoot the last bullets from the machine gun, 3 rifle grenades fly into me at once along a mortar trajectory, although none of the opponents saw me from behind the hill. At the last second before my death, I also managed to turn around on the road that leads to the rise to my right and see that there was still none of the English there. This suggests that there is no shot with these grenades on the right at me. These three grenades came at me exactly along the mortar trajectory from the front.

Half a year ago, in the spring of 2021, this was not the case in version 2.57. The bots used rifle grenades, but they never fired them at me like a bottom-up mortar trajectory.

If this is a bug, then this bug is good for the game with bots. Previously, it was possible for a long time to sit with a machine gun in a closed position and shoot enemy infantry for a long time until the cartridges run out, but now this is impossible. I often have to change positions, otherwise a rifle grenade immediately flies at me. Although I doubt that this is a bug, because besides machine gunners, bots began to use rifle grenades on light tanks as well. They didn't do it before.
« Last Edit: 05-11-2021, 10:11:01 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline Pa3ym2

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No one ever denied that.

Only I didn't mean that after that it was necessary to make the recoil of the MP-40 as high as that of the MP-38, rather the opposite. Probably on the contrary, It would be better, on the contrary, to reduce the MP-38 recoil to the MP-40 level, as well as remove the overestimated recoil of the first shot in each turn. And maybe then it will be more pleasant to shoot with submachine guns. Although this is still not enough.
« Last Edit: 05-11-2021, 11:11:18 by Pa3ym2 »

Offline Ts4EVER

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MP38 and MP40 are coded with identical recoil, but due to the quicker rate of fire the game doesn't render all the recoil frames on the MP40. This makes it fire smoother. We might fix that in the future, but it is non-trivial and also not part of weapon coding. It would require high level changes to the exe which only few people know how to do.