Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 07:07:40

Title: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 07:07:40
Probably the most neglected theater of WWII games because there wasn't any major huge decisive victories but I think a handful of maps taking place in China would be interesting.  Perhaps a three way battle between Nationalists, Communists, and the Japanese.   Shanghai for example was pretty much the Stalingrad of the Orient.  Some new weapons that could be introduced would be the Chiang Kai-shek and Hanyang 88 rifles Mauser C96 pistols and the Dadao for melee combat.   I think it would be interesting having a battle that relied on brutal close quarter and melee combat with the Dadao being used against the Japanese Shin guntō  as neither side had sub machine-guns available.  (and yes I know about the type 100 but is was pretty rare on the battlefield and not used till later in the war)

So what one could have is a close quarters battle with bolt action rifles, pistols, and powerful melee weapons along with APCs as support to give more dynamics to the mod.   Now I know something like this would be along time coming because the Japanese are not even in the mod yet but  I think it would be interesting and something to add while doing up the pacific maps.   It would also add a change of scenery outside jungles and islands for the Japanese.  What do you all think?  ???

p.s.  I added a clip from a Chinese WWII film to give some sort of example  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuBDZkyrMhI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuBDZkyrMhI)
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Torenico on 26-07-2009, 07:07:50
Maybe Later?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: azreal on 26-07-2009, 07:07:34
So what one could have is a close quarters battle with bolt action rifles, pistols, and powerful melee weapons along with APCs as support to give more dynamics to the mod.   Now I know something like this would be along time coming because the Japanese are not even in the mod yet but  I think it would be interesting and something to add while doing up the pacific maps.   It would also add a change of scenery outside jungles and islands for the Japanese.  What do you all think?  ???

You answered your own question...
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 07:07:28
I know.  Just food for thought.   I mean this is the suggestions section is it not? :-\
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: azreal on 26-07-2009, 07:07:41
Yes it is but...
Quote
In this forum you can post any suggestions you may have for Forgotten Hope 2. Please keep in mind that someone else may already have had the same idea you have, so to prevent making two threads on the same subject, see if the subject you want to talk about hasn't already been discussed.

Another important thing to remember before posting a suggestion is that Forgotten Hope has a limited development team. We cannot possibly make every single vehicle and weapon for this mod, so we have to make priorities. As a result, very rare vehicles will probably not be included any time soon, so suggesting them is of little use. On the other hand, we have qualified historical researchers, so suggesting vehicles like the Sherman tank and Panzer IV is also pointless.

When making a suggestion, please be detailed. A simple post saying "How about an Omaha Beach map?" is pointless and may even be deleted. Also, make sure your thread title is descriptive of its contents. A thread with the title "A suggestion" will be edited.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 07:07:01
I respect and understand the situation of the mod team.   To be honest I have always been extremely impressed with their resourcefulness.   The reason I brought it up though is that I always thought the Chinese Theater was kind of the elephant in the room of WWII.  Much more significant then people think yet for some reason often ignored.   I was just curious if the developers or community shared my views on the subject, and if the idea to include it ever came up, not to demand that it be included.    
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Torenico on 26-07-2009, 07:07:12
Hey, you got allies.

Chinese Playermodels, they just need a BIG skin, but the base is done.

Voice Commands, they sound modern, maybe some Tweaking, like Distortion or something.

Statics, again, some are modern, other arent.

I think we will see the Chinese Forces, whit a very FEW maps, someone (Fan Mapper) can make some maps using that faction.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 07:07:46
Thanks man!   I was also kinda thinking the same thing.  Since the Chinese are already included in the game it might be a fairly easy add for someone to do compared to a ground up rebuild.   I wish I was as skilled as some of the modders for this outstanding project are because that would be my contribution.   ;D   This may sound goofy due to the scope of the battlefield games but ever since the original release of '42 Ive always found sudden melee combat to be adrenaline pumping excitement and really adding to the atmosphere.  I think a fan map or any map that threw in the much neglected Chinese as well as challenged players rifle and melee skills without heavy armor or SMGs would be kinda interesting.  

Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: VonMudra on 26-07-2009, 08:07:43
I highly doubt Chinese will be neglected, if and when FH2 makes it to the Pacific theater.  however they would be late coming into the mod, IF the mod makes it there, and then only after the Commonwealth and Americans are in (being more popular/famous).  Much like the Finnish, Hungarian, and Rumanian armies, China will have to wait.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 08:07:26
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Torenico on 26-07-2009, 10:07:47
Quote
because there wasn't any major huge decisive victories

Thats why we dont see China "Nationalist" or Warlords in Games. The only game i know, whit all chinese factions fighting between them and against japan in Hearts of Iron 1,2 and 3.

Well, acutally, i can clearly see myself and many other guys playing as Hungarian, theres a couple of guys working on it, so it could be possible, same whit the Finnish (If not expect heavy attacks from the Flippy faction), France is more likely going to be in FH2 (A weapon shows the french flag, and since Bir Hakeim has been deleted from Gazala, there could be a separate map called Bir Hakeim.., and again, Johannes will attack, for sure).

But these factions have to waiiiiiit, alot.

I think the next theater would be the Eastern Front, or italy, italy seems possible since it needs nothing but a some new statics and stuff, the Eastern front needs alot more, and not to talk about the Pacific.

Could be interesting, the devs can make a deal, whit BFK. They have the Czech Zb vz.26 (China had these Machineguns), the Gewehr 98 (When i played it, i tought it was a Gerwehr 98 or a Chiang Kai Sheck rifle) and some other stuff. And FH2 can give something else, like some coding or animations.. who knows, it would be good.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: VonMudra on 26-07-2009, 11:07:33
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.


Sadly, its just not what's "in" in popular circles.  Most people just want to see the usual fest of "AMERICANS GUNGHO KILLING NAZIS AND JAPPSSS!!!1111" and think that the entire british war effort after the BAttle of Britian consisted of SAS raids.

So, unforunetly, the incredible histories and stories of the combat in China, Burma/India, the Middle East, Balkans, the minor Axis Allies, and other areas of the war are just pushed aside=/
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Biiviz on 26-07-2009, 11:07:59
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.

The Chinese don't have Hollywood.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Taranov on 26-07-2009, 11:07:38
For chinese front need lots of new equipment and statics.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Fenring on 26-07-2009, 11:07:16
As taranov said there are very slim chances of this happening.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Natty on 26-07-2009, 12:07:08
we are niched as it is  ;)
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: [WDW]Megaraptor on 26-07-2009, 15:07:08
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.

One reason is that most people just aren't aware. And part of that is the knowledge we have available to us in the West. I'm sure there have been plenty of books written on the Sino-Japanese war - in Chinese and Japanese. There's really not a lot of books (comparatively speaking) about this part of the war that have been written in or translated into English.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 19:07:59
 I want to thank everyone for the their views on this issue.   Hopefully we can see this side of the war explored more in gaming one day.  I truly think it is an interesting subject to tackle and Id like to know more about the battles of this theater considering even the Japanese took 1.8 million casualties fighting it.  Heck maybe someday down the road a mapper my stumble on this topic and decided to do a mappack based on it for a future incarnation of the FH series.   Regardless thanks for the input!  8)
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Eat Uranium on 26-07-2009, 19:07:36
BTW, what veiw does the PRC take on the whole Chinese front?  What with it being half way through their civil war and all.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: [WDW]Megaraptor on 26-07-2009, 19:07:23
BTW, what veiw does the PRC take on the whole Chinese front?  What with it being half way through their civil war and all.

For the longest time they claimed they pretty much won the war singlehandedly and that the KMT did virtually nothing of any substance. Of course, everyone who lived through that time and pretty much the entire rest of the world knew that this was complete BS.

Now, the PRC has modified their position to say that the victory over Japan belongs to the Chinese people, not to any political party or ideology.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 26-07-2009, 19:07:41
From what I have studied on the subject the PRC seems to celebrate the communist battles against the Japanese while pretty much ignoring the contributions of the Nationalist forces as they are taboo in China.   The Nationalists collaborated with the Japanese invaders at first. The old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"  situation until the communists captured their leader Chiang Kai-shek and gave him the option of either joining the communist forces fighting the Japanese or be executed.   He of course took the prudent choice and joined the fight against the Japanese.

One interesting note on that theater is it was the only time where German armor faced Japanese armor on the battlefield as the Chinese used Panzer II's in the war given to them by the Germans during the Sino-German cooperation (1911–1941).  Some units also fielded German helmets, German k98 Rifles, and some MG34s.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Torenico on 27-07-2009, 01:07:23
Never heard about PzII, give me a good source and well, might be true.

But the Chinese had Italian CV-33 Tankettes, PanzerI, Mg34, Pak35 and stuff from MANY countries, making a chinese faction whit ONE map will not be hard guys, common!
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: GirlsHateMe on 27-07-2009, 02:07:24
I'd personally love a Chinese front to happen but that's only because we get to use my favourite pistol - the Mauser C96  :)

 
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 27-07-2009, 02:07:20
Heheh chinese even received 1200 M/26's out of 30 000 ordered.  ;)
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: [WDW]Megaraptor on 27-07-2009, 03:07:08
Chinese also used weapons that were rare in other parts of the world like the C96 pistol (used as an SMG by Chinese troops) and the Czech ZB.26 light machine gun.

They also had a number of Sdkfz 221 scout cars. They also got Russian vehicles such as the T-26 tank and BA-10 and BA-20 armored cars.

Most KMT armor was organized into the 200th Division, which distinguished itself both against the Japanese and in Burma in 1942.

However most of this stuff is accurate for the period 1937-1941. After 1941 China got massive military aid from the USA, so Chinese troops should get American M1 helmets and gear, M1903 Springfield rifles, M1 Thompson, M1 Greasegun, Browning M1919, as well as M3/M5 Stuart, M18 Hellcat and M4 Sherman tanks. American-supplied armor would prove crucial in halting the Japanese offensives of late 1944.

Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 27-07-2009, 03:07:25
Thats one thing I really liked about setting a few maps on the Chinese front is that the wealth of weapons and vechicals that where available in that theater.   The war the Chinese used a literal hodgepodge of WWI and WWII German, Russian, American, and captured Japanese weaponry as well as native weapons and rarer WWII weaponry like the Czechoslovak  ZB vz. 26.  The Maxim gun also played a major role.

Some battles I think that would make a good maps would be:

Battle of Shanghai 1937 - historical Japanese victory

Battle of Pingxingguan 1937 - historic Chinese victory

Battle of South Shanxi - 1941 historic Japanese victory

Battle of West Hunan - 1945 Historic Chinese victory
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: G.Drew on 27-07-2009, 04:07:39
Tbh the only way i can see this theatre being included is if every other one is completed first, including the Pacific Campaign.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: [WDW]Megaraptor on 27-07-2009, 05:07:00
China also has great variation in terrain which would make for good variety in maps.

Some battles I think would be interesting:

Marco Polo Bridge-1937 (A big bridge fight, think Bridge Assault in America's Army)
Operation Chahar-1937 (Great wall of China)
Shanghai-1937 (Urban meatgrinder)
Kunlun Pass-1940 (Chinese armored attack)
Hong Kong-1941 (with Brits)
Yenangyuang-1942 (Burma oil fields)
Changde-1943 (hard back and forth battle over the old stone walled city of Changde. Heavy use of chemical and biological weapons by the Japanese).

Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 27-07-2009, 15:07:13
It would be nice to see China ingame, but unless a miarcale happens that allows the FH team to release a new theatre per year I can't see this happening. It would fit the "forgotten" part of FH though as WW2 wasn't just Operation Overlord ("wa is Op overlord, me only know Nomandy, Omaha! Kill kriats for America and saf wurld!!!111" =p ) ..
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Frederik on 27-07-2009, 16:07:41
I think this could make a really nice map

Wuhan  (11 June – 27 October 1938): A japanese atempt to annihilate the main force of the chinese army. Battle includes air, ground and naval fighting (on the yangtze river) aswell as naval landings. The japanese had over 100 vessels (destroyers, gunboats, torpedo boats, seaplane tenders, transports..) and china had around 30.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wuhan
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Meadow on 27-07-2009, 17:07:49
Let's face it, it's touch and go whether FH2 will even get past the Western Front to the Eastern, let alone get to the underrepresented parts of the Pacific. I for one however would love to see Chinese maps if the possibility ever arose - interesting equipment, uniforms and theatre of war. And of course it would indeed fit with FH's original intentions.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Taranov on 27-07-2009, 17:07:16
Better to back to chinese front after Pacific release.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 27-07-2009, 18:07:25
hehe not to mention it would really be the only theater where the Japanese got to use their type 93 and type 100 flamethrowers.  There was also several Japanese tanks and APCs fighting in China that never really saw action in the pacific. ;D   

I know its a pipe dream but its sure fun to discuss.   Some of the maps and armament ideas you guys have brought up on this thread are really awesome.   Its cool to know im not the only one out there that knows a thing or to about this forgotten theater.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: [WDW]Megaraptor on 27-07-2009, 19:07:35
hehe not to mention it would really be the only theater where the Japanese got to use their type 93 and type 100 flamethrowers. 

I believe they were used in some of the 1941-42 campaigns in the Pacific, including Wake Island and the Dutch East Indies.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: m1rock on 27-07-2009, 19:07:22
You're right.  Dutch East Indies, Burma and the Philippines and Wake.     The Japanese actually tried to use them as an anti-tank weapon later in the war as well. :-\ lol     
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: zzs8mm on 23-05-2010, 00:05:56
I mostly agree with the things written here, but the MG34 was not used in China. There is no proof of a Chinese soldier using the MG34. I have not seen one picture.

But, of couse the MG34 was used, it says in wikipedia.
Well wikipedia is not the best source, plus who ever wrote that article did not state a source.

Surely some would have been imported in the German vehicles No, the MG13 replaced the MG34. source: chinesefirearms.com

But.. but.. Chinese factories were capable to reproduce the weapons No, they were basic factories. The MG34 was a complicated weapon, and even if the Chinese wanted the weapon, they could not produce them. Same source above.

From what I have studied on the subject the PRC seems to celebrate the communist battles against the Japanese while pretty much ignoring the contributions of the Nationalist forces as they are taboo in China.   The Nationalists collaborated with the Japanese invaders at first. The old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"  situation until the communists captured their leader Chiang Kai-shek and gave him the option of either joining the communist forces fighting the Japanese or be executed.   He of course took the prudent choice and joined the fight against the Japanese.

One interesting note on that theater is it was the only time where German armor faced Japanese armor on the battlefield as the Chinese used Panzer II's in the war given to them by the Germans during the Sino-German cooperation (1911–1941).  Some units also fielded German helmets, German k98 Rifles, and some MG34s.
Not 1941, 1937. Japan requested the Germans to stop the aid at that time. I  am not sure about the 1911 or after period.

Chiang was not threatened with execution, it was merely a threat of "I won't let you go until you establish a united front." It was a warlord that kidnapped him, not the communists. Later the warlord was arrested and place under house arrest. He was on Taiwan after 1949  and was still under house arrest. A few decades later he was released and left and moved to Hawaii I believe.

A M5 Stuart was mentioned, none were in China. Only M3A3 Stuarts. I am not sure about the M18, I know on Taiwan they were used.

So... who ever makes a Chinese front mod, they would be very popular with a lot of people... in China. China WWII is very popular over there as many want to destroy the Japanese, although virtually, for what they did 70 years ago.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Beaufort on 23-05-2010, 01:05:38
That's the true philosophy of Forgotten Hope, right ? To destroy, althought virtually, the axis team for what they did 70 years ago ?  ::)
Almost a good thing there won't be a chinese theatre after all...
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: psykfallet on 23-05-2010, 02:05:09
how time flies.. my first post in the fh community was regarding a chinese army.. that was before 0.5 was released.. what was it 6 years ago? Point in case.. are you still going to play this mod in 1-2 years when this would be possible (at minimum!), is this mod still going to be active?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Torenico on 23-05-2010, 03:05:59
It seems that FHSW is Doing Chinese Theatre, they have a few Skins and Flags...

Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: zzs8mm on 23-05-2010, 03:05:54
Well let me explain my comment. I don't have hatred against the Japanese, but I do let people know what happen during that war (I have to correct some people who think the Chinese bomb Pearl Harbor  ::)). Just in case you say I am biased, no, the Chinese, on both sides, also did horrible things to their own too.

Many Chinese people and other Asians, including the Koreans, still have not forgiven the Japanese. Many passed their "hatred" to the younger generation. Some Chinese call the Japanese, gui, or devils, in some Chinese forums I have visited. Some just call them Japanese.

I have played one game that one guy made a mod for. He only lets you play the Chinese side. He says he will later in time allow you play the Japanese, but he won't right now. I think it is a good game, but it was made for the middle ages period and not for modern warfare. It is hard to lead your troops in a line when they can not take cover. His mods are good, although he can work on the uniforms a little bit better. His mod basically recreated a game and added a lot of features what the game originally did not have. I rather see a Chinese mod in FPS instead.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: blue on 23-05-2010, 05:05:34
Well let me explain my comment. I don't have hatred against the Japanese, but I do let people know what happen during that war (I have to correct some people who think the Chinese bomb Pearl Harbor  ::)). Just in case you say I am biased, no, the Chinese, on both sides, also did horrible things to their own too.

Where are you encountering people who think the Chinese bombed Pearl Harbor?!
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Natty on 23-05-2010, 12:05:33
reason for necroing this thread  ??? we don't make FH2 fronts based on how many got killed in some war... we won't do any chinese front just because "they deserve it" so plz give us a break, lol.  :-\
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-05-2010, 12:05:46
Be glad that these guys are willing to do this in their free time. While they are working on the patch, i can and am sunning, biking, going to the cafe with friends, eating ice cream...

So please. Dont "Demand" things. Their mod. And their free time
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 23-05-2010, 13:05:50
I'd love to do a defense of great wall map, but alas, I lack stuff.  :P
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Natty on 23-05-2010, 14:05:51
I'd love to do a defense of great wall map, but alas, I lack stuff.  :P

port the vanilla map?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 23-05-2010, 16:05:41
No. But its statics would be more than enough to create the map itself. But then theres lack of equipment and soldiers. But porting = no go, even its an OK map.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 23-05-2010, 16:05:46
Why does porting = no go?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Cory the Otter on 23-05-2010, 16:05:34
Man, I would LOVE to see the Chinese in here.  And maybe if there is a Japanese Front made, someone will decide to make a Minimod on the Chinese Theatre or Chinese Civil War or something, but for the FH2 Devs to worry about something like that (which may be unpopular because it doesn't have the Americans in it  ::) ) while concentrating on whatever front they're trying to release in a few years, It would just be a drag on Development resources.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Desertfox on 23-05-2010, 17:05:32
I doubt it would be unpopular cause' it doesn't have Americans, because not many Americans play the mod as it is.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Cory the Otter on 23-05-2010, 18:05:22
You do have to admit that there are more everyday players ever since the Americans came in.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Desertfox on 23-05-2010, 18:05:40
You do have to admit that there are more everyday players ever since the Americans came in.
But North American traffic is still down. More players, but not from North America
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Cory the Otter on 23-05-2010, 18:05:31
yes, but that means that the Normandy front is most likely more popular than North Africa, and I'd say that NA attendance is up a bit since they were included.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Desertfox on 23-05-2010, 18:05:47
According to the graphs I've seen, North America has gone down if anything; therefore, not having Americans in it will not change much.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 23-05-2010, 18:05:33
Not the subject here. Piss off.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: psykfallet on 23-05-2010, 23:05:52
No. But its statics would be more than enough to create the map itself. But then theres lack of equipment and soldiers. But porting = no go, even its an OK map.
I thought Totalize was a port of sorts
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Safe-Keeper on 23-05-2010, 23:05:25
Quote
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.
WWII history seems to be a lot about pop culture. To go slightly OT, Norway's saboteurs are famous in our country, even though they sat on their butts for most of the war and only went really active until '44-'45. Meanwhile, NORTRASHIP (Norwegian Trading and Shipping Mission), our thousand ships strong merchant fleet, which at one point in the war provided Britain with 1/3 of her oil needs... hardly ever gets a mention. The kids who play games would rather l33tbbqstorm Omaha Beach for the twentieth thousandth time than experience something new, pay homage to worthy recipients, and actually learn something about the other unsung heroes of WWII.

I've been campaigning for a Chinese front myself before, and while I realize FH2 won't get to the PTO for a long time yet, I would definitely love to see the KMT and Communists for a change rather than just US and UK forces. It'd be a very, very welcome breath of fresh air.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 23-05-2010, 23:05:40
From a history standpoint I agree. From a gameplay standpoint: Almost no tanks, no smgs, no semi auto rifles mostly...
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: MaJ.P.Bouras on 23-05-2010, 23:05:06
Quote
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.

You have 1000 pensils and you lose one.You have 5 and you lose one.When will you care the most?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Cory the Otter on 23-05-2010, 23:05:15
are you comparing the deaths of 20 million chinese to losing a few pencils?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Safe-Keeper on 23-05-2010, 23:05:07
The Warrior, meet the metaphor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor). Metaphor, meet The Warrior.


Quote
You have 1000 pensils and you lose one.You have 5 and you lose one.When will you care the most?
Well, yeah, if you have more people to lose and fight a war over a bigger area, you lose more people. I believe the nation that lost the most people, based on a ratio of total population number, was Poland.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: MaJ.P.Bouras on 24-05-2010, 00:05:16
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World_War_II_Casualties.svg

(what in the hell Greece higher than China?!)
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Nerdsturm on 24-05-2010, 00:05:30
(what in the hell Greece higher than China?!)
That's just causalities as a percentage of pre-war population. Greece lost way fewer soldiers but also obviously has a much smaller population.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Torenico on 24-05-2010, 00:05:52
You do have to admit that there are more everyday players ever since the Americans came in.
But North American traffic is still down. More players, but not from North America

I Hope God gives me good Modelling Skills, with them i would do the stuff we need for a Chinese Theater!
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: General_Henry on 24-05-2010, 03:05:19
No. But its statics would be more than enough to create the map itself. But then theres lack of equipment and soldiers. But porting = no go, even its an OK map.

Why no such porting? It'd add diversity (a big one) if they really reskinned the Chinese player models and when the Japanese army is ready. I'd imagine two ported maps would be great for a minipatch

1. Wake-1941   Japanese vs US          Naval firepower, air combat, land combat, old US rifles/equipments
2. Great Wall 1937    Japanese vs China(nationalist)           Land combat, close quaters, rare guns.
3. Somewhere in Manchuria 1945     Japanese vs Soviet Union, perhaps a battle with Soviet Paratrooper vs Japanese airfield garrison, SOVIET PARATROOPERS!


I'd really love to see, and I think they'll be as popular as OP. Totalize too. Plus you leave 2x fanmapping possibility, that would be really nice to the community. Plus there would be crowds of "Chinese netizens" who are willing to fill up the Chinese side of the battlefield... right?

(Of course, somehow I foresaw some Chinese servers setting up 50 people on the Chinese side and 16 on the Japanese...LOL)
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 24-05-2010, 03:05:04
No. But its statics would be more than enough to create the map itself. But then theres lack of equipment and soldiers. But porting = no go, even its an OK map.


3. Somewhere in Manchuria 1945     Japanese vs Soviet Union, perhaps a battle with Soviet Paratrooper vs Japanese airfield garrison, SOVIET PARATROOPERS!



Soviet paratroopers actually had a lot of major drops during the war, a lot of opportunities to get them in... Operation Mars, anyone?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Cory the Otter on 24-05-2010, 03:05:22
Soviet Russia + Paratrooper Map = Cake + Kittens

I can't imagine how awesome that would be.  It must happen.  It must.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: hankypanky on 24-05-2010, 04:05:26
I'm sorry but have these forums become a giant wet dream, where we imagine everything that will never be?
Seriously? It's going to take 1-2 years to make the Eastern Front! Besides there is so much incomplete stuff atm. The Italians don't have most of their gear!!!! We only just touched on Europe! Think of how awesome Operation Market Garden would be? Or the The buldge? 

Stop dreaming about stuff and come back to reality.....
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Kelmola on 24-05-2010, 09:05:00
In Soviet Russia, paratroopers drop you! Also, thinking of owning Japanese tanks in Pz2 is so cool that one has to be allowed to dream such dreams.

And saying "porting is bad, mmmkay?" doesn't really work because of Totalize. OK, it's just the heightmap that's ported (or are flags/OOB as well?), none of the statics - but surely there was an early development version with placeholders, and if vanilla statics are from the Far East, well...
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 24-05-2010, 10:05:16
It does work if Im to decide. I rather make a map than port it. So suck it up.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: MerugopXL on 24-05-2010, 11:05:58
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.
The reason can be found in one of the diary's of a Japanese soldier who fought in China
"For every soldier they shot we shot 10 more"
"There was no resistance serious enought to form a thread"
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Safe-Keeper on 24-05-2010, 15:05:13
Quote
I'm sorry but have these forums become a giant wet dream, where we imagine everything that will never be?
No? Have you seen indications to the contrary somewhere?

Quote
It's going to take 1-2 years to make the Eastern Front! Besides there is so much incomplete stuff atm. The Italians don't have most of their gear!!!! We only just touched on Europe! Think of how awesome Operation Market Garden would be? Or the The buldge?
What is your point? I think I missed the part in the rules that says only to suggest stuff that is close to being made already.

Quote
Stop dreaming about stuff and come back to reality.....
You're in a suggestions forum. Dreaming is kinda what they are for ::).
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: General_Henry on 24-05-2010, 16:05:52
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.
The reason can be found in one of the diary's of a Japanese soldier who fought in China
"For every soldier they shot we shot 10 more"
"There was no resistance serious enought to form a thread"

It depends on which Chinese units and which battles, I think there were battles which the Japanese were defeated with high casualties... Man, what do you expect from the Chinese, which many are only equipped with melee weapons?
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Hresvelgr on 24-05-2010, 17:05:39
From a history standpoint I agree. From a gameplay standpoint: Almost no tanks, no smgs, no semi auto rifles mostly...

No smgs is kind of a myth I think . Not sure about the Japanese, although I'm sure they had plenty of MP-18s. The Chinese also had many MP-18s that they produced, in addition to M1928 Tommy Guns. There were plenty of tanks, albeit mostly light and almost all were old. So semi-autos doesn't stop North Africa from being fun either, and besides, the Chinese did have some Czech-made semi-auto rifles. Not many, but some...
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Ts4EVER on 24-05-2010, 17:05:26
No smgs is not a myth. Most of the MP18 copies were issued to SNLF units and the Type 100s were exclusively used by paratroopers. Near the end of the war most newly produced smgs like the Type 100/44 or the Type 2 "Bullpup" were hold back for use in the defense of Japan (which never happened obviously). The normal Japanese infantry squad had 12 guys, one carrying a machinegun and the rest with rifles.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Hresvelgr on 24-05-2010, 20:05:11
No smgs is not a myth. Most of the MP18 copies were issued to SNLF units and the Type 100s were exclusively used by paratroopers. Near the end of the war most newly produced smgs like the Type 100/44 or the Type 2 "Bullpup" were hold back for use in the defense of Japan (which never happened obviously). The normal Japanese infantry squad had 12 guys, one carrying a machinegun and the rest with rifles.

I did say I wasn't too sure about Japan, but I know the Chinese had plenty enough to cause lots of Japanese casualties in Shanghai.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: MerugopXL on 06-06-2010, 18:06:40
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.
The reason can be found in one of the diary's of a Japanese soldier who fought in China
"For every soldier they shot we shot 10 more"
"There was no resistance serious enought to form a thread"

It depends on which Chinese units and which battles, I think there were battles which the Japanese were defeated with high casualties... Man, what do you expect from the Chinese, which many are only equipped with melee weapons?
So the rifleman get's only a kinfe on team china that's kind of boring.,,,,
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: chido312 on 07-06-2010, 01:06:52
Perhaps a three way battle between Nationalists, Communists, and the Japanese.

not likely. all chinese people no matter what political party fuaght together against the japanese. if you did do a chinese theatre of conflict i would like the see the flying tigers and their fight against the japs.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: General_Henry on 07-06-2010, 15:06:42
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.
The reason can be found in one of the diary's of a Japanese soldier who fought in China
"For every soldier they shot we shot 10 more"
"There was no resistance serious enought to form a thread"

It depends on which Chinese units and which battles, I think there were battles which the Japanese were defeated with high casualties... Man, what do you expect from the Chinese, which many are only equipped with melee weapons?
So the rifleman get's only a kinfe on team china that's kind of boring.,,,,

Don't worry, it is much better than a knife, at least much longer range for the Da Dao, I suppose if the Chinese front ever come you'll be able to pick up Japanese weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadao
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Johannes on 08-06-2010, 08:06:56
Forgive me for being slightly OT but do you know why the Chinese are less popular a WWII subject among those with an interest in WWII?    They lost around 20 million people during WWII. Their combat related deaths only surpassed by Germany and Russia.  One would think those kinds of losses would at least bring them infamy but surprisingly little seems to be mentioned of them during WWII in regards to most publications on the subject.

Agreed 100%. To be perfectly honest, I feel the Chinese desperately need to be portrayed in a game (I don't necessarily mean FH here, which obviously the team is doing much as it is, but I mean any FPS WW2 shooter!) far more (especially given that they haven't been portrayed at all) than virtually every Allied country outside the Big Three; it's not for no reason that they were referred to as the Fourth Policeman. It's amazing how in virtually every period Allied propaganda China is emphasized everywhere as not only a major Allied power, but THE major Allied power outside the Big Three, yet today their contribution has been all but completely forgotten in the west.
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Skywind on 22-03-2022, 05:03:22
After the release of the upcoming version of Forgotten Hope 2 which will add the French army, I think that it would be great to add the Chinese forces fighting against the Japanese forces in Asia during World War II.

The only mods in the Battlefield game series that have added the Chinese army during World War II are the 5 following mods :

1) Battlefield 1942 : Experience World War 2 (XWW2) Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/experience-world-war-2

2) Battlefield 1942 : Experience World War 2 Extended (XWW2X) Mod : https://w.atwiki.jp/battlefield1942/pages/229.html

3) Battlefield 1942 : eXpirience World War II:Forgotten Battles (XWWII:FB) Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/expirience-world-war-iiforgotten-battles

4) Battlefield 1942 : BattleGroup42 (BG42) Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/battlegroup42

5) Battlefield 2 : Battleground 44 Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/battleground44

Here is a list of battles featuring the Chinese forces as the allied forces with the most fighters during a battle and taking place in China after the Republic of China officially declared war on the Empire of Japan on 9 December 1941 and thus after having officially joined the Allies of World War II :

1) 24 December 1941 – 15 January 1942 : The Battle of Changsha of 1941-1942

2) 15 May – 4 September 1942 : The Zhejiang-Jiangxi campaign

3) 12 May – 3 June 1943 : The Battle of West Hubei

4) 18 February 1938 – 23 August 1943 : The bombing of Chongqing

5) 2 November 1943 – 20 December 1943 : The Battle of Changde

6) 19 April 1944 : The Battle of Central Henan

7) 27 May 1944 - 18 June 1944 : The Battle of Changsha of 1944

8 ) 22 June 1944 – 8 August 1944 : The Battle of Hengyang

9) 4 June 1944 – 7 September 1944 : The Battle of Mount Song

10) 16 August – 24 November 1944 : The Battle of Guilin–Liuzhou

11) 21 March – 11 May 1945 : The Battle of West Henan–North Hubei

12) 6 April – 9 June 1945 : The Battle of West Hunan

13) 4 August 1945 : The Guangxi campaign of 1945

Here is a list of battles featuring the Chinese forces as the allied forces with the most fighters and taking place in Burma after the Republic of China officially declared war on the Empire of Japan on 9 December 1941 and thus officially joining the Allies of World War II and thus after having officially joined the Allies of World War II :

1) 19 March 1942 - 29 March 1942 : The Battle of Toungoo

2) 18 March 1942 - 19 March 1942 : The Battle of Tachiao

3) 20 March 1942 - 23 March 1942 : The Battle of Oktwin

4) 17 May 1944 – 3 August 1944 : The Siege of Myitkyina
Title: Re: How about a Chinese Front?
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 02-04-2022, 09:04:42
After the release of the upcoming version of Forgotten Hope 2 which will add the French army, I think that it would be great to add the Chinese forces fighting against the Japanese forces in Asia during World War II.

The only mods in the Battlefield game series that have added the Chinese army during World War II are the 5 following mods :

1) Battlefield 1942 : Experience World War 2 (XWW2) Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/experience-world-war-2

2) Battlefield 1942 : Experience World War 2 Extended (XWW2X) Mod : https://w.atwiki.jp/battlefield1942/pages/229.html

3) Battlefield 1942 : eXpirience World War II:Forgotten Battles (XWWII:FB) Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/expirience-world-war-iiforgotten-battles

4) Battlefield 1942 : BattleGroup42 (BG42) Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/battlegroup42

5) Battlefield 2 : Battleground 44 Mod :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/battleground44

Here is a list of battles featuring the Chinese forces as the allied forces with the most fighters during a battle and taking place in China after the Republic of China officially declared war on the Empire of Japan on 9 December 1941 and thus after having officially joined the Allies of World War II :

1) 24 December 1941 – 15 January 1942 : The Battle of Changsha of 1941-1942

2) 15 May – 4 September 1942 : The Zhejiang-Jiangxi campaign

3) 12 May – 3 June 1943 : The Battle of West Hubei

4) 18 February 1938 – 23 August 1943 : The bombing of Chongqing

5) 2 November 1943 – 20 December 1943 : The Battle of Changde

6) 19 April 1944 : The Battle of Central Henan

7) 27 May 1944 - 18 June 1944 : The Battle of Changsha of 1944

8 ) 22 June 1944 – 8 August 1944 : The Battle of Hengyang

9) 4 June 1944 – 7 September 1944 : The Battle of Mount Song

10) 16 August – 24 November 1944 : The Battle of Guilin–Liuzhou

11) 21 March – 11 May 1945 : The Battle of West Henan–North Hubei

12) 6 April – 9 June 1945 : The Battle of West Hunan

13) 4 August 1945 : The Guangxi campaign of 1945

Here is a list of battles featuring the Chinese forces as the allied forces with the most fighters and taking place in Burma after the Republic of China officially declared war on the Empire of Japan on 9 December 1941 and thus officially joining the Allies of World War II and thus after having officially joined the Allies of World War II :

1) 19 March 1942 - 29 March 1942 : The Battle of Toungoo

2) 18 March 1942 - 19 March 1942 : The Battle of Tachiao

3) 20 March 1942 - 23 March 1942 : The Battle of Oktwin

4) 17 May 1944 – 3 August 1944 : The Siege of Myitkyina
Hey Skywind, that is nice compilation of Chinese front battles. While best part is research of battles, dev and betatester team is quite small and all of FH2 content is made in free time and as hoby. If you have some free time, group of friends to work together and will to make content, you could learn mapping or modeling wepons, sounds, etc. It is nice opportunity to learn some skills that can be used in work, freelance etc. Hop on Discord to chat with people that also love to discuss FH2, potential battles that could be represented in-game and help if you decide do some modding!  ;)