Author Topic: Gaddafi and Libya  (Read 67824 times)

Offline hankypanky

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #765 on: 23-08-2011, 01:08:19 »
Oh yes, because Western people are thrilled by the sight of us yelling Allahu Ekber. It ain't free, we're taking a break while our future enemy starts settling in.
We can sit here and dismisses the Arab spring and the Libya revolution as a farce, and as "Future enemies", or we can give them the time and maybe see new stable governments. You know there is already a stable national transition council with heavy western support. So Libya already has the framework for a stable government.


The Arab Spring or the Jasmine Spring as we call it is most certainly not a farce but something everybody should keep their eyes on. The rebels in Libya do have some Al-Qaeda connections, there are known Islamists among them and its really not similar to the situation we had in Tunisia or Egypt. Look at Syria now, people cutting eachothers heads off and hanging dead babies around and about. This doesn't feel like the sweep of freedom one bit.
What? You do know in Syria the government is the one doing all the killing right? lol Al-Qaeda. Doesn't the American government still claim that there are uber sleeper cells still in America...hahaha.
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Offline Zoologic

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #766 on: 23-08-2011, 06:08:48 »
Talking about moral grounds now. Are you saying "bad guys" like US or France cannot redeem themselves? Should they continue acting like "Freedom cops" while plundering natural resources and fixing deals with uncanny 3rd world leaders?

Slaughter might not have happened. How to ensure that? Empty threats? Syria is the example of what would  have happened in Libya if nobody interfered back then.

Otherwise, "Freedom cops" and free minded liberals should have no say about things happening in these lands of misery, well talk about hankypanky's home land.

Offline Steiner8834

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #767 on: 23-08-2011, 11:08:45 »
Oh yes, because Western people are thrilled by the sight of us yelling Allahu Ekber. It ain't free, we're taking a break while our future enemy starts settling in.
We can sit here and dismisses the Arab spring and the Libya revolution as a farce, and as "Future enemies", or we can give them the time and maybe see new stable governments. You know there is already a stable national transition council with heavy western support. So Libya already has the framework for a stable government.

The Arab Spring or the Jasmine Spring as we call it is most certainly not a farce but something everybody should keep their eyes on. The rebels in Libya do have some Al-Qaeda connections, there are known Islamists among them and its really not similar to the situation we had in Tunisia or Egypt. Look at Syria now, people cutting eachothers heads off and hanging dead babies around and about. This doesn't feel like the sweep of freedom one bit.

Absolutely correct mate. Unfortunately most of the western people really believe that this Arab Spring is about establishing a western style democracy. The only thing we will get is a religious theocracy like in Iran or worse a second Somalia.

If you have to choose between two bastards, choose the one you already know. Thats why I'm wishing Colonel Gaddafi and the Libyan Army all the best.  :)


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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #768 on: 23-08-2011, 11:08:49 »
A nice right-wing view of the world right there.  ;D
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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #770 on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:21 »
Got any unbiased sources?  ;D
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Offline Steiner8834

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #771 on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:43 »
Got any unbiased sources?  ;D

They are unbiased.  :)

Offline NTH

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #772 on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:05 »
A nice right-wing view of the world right there.  ;D

Steiner and Tolga do have a point there. You have to view every uprising in each country on it's own merits. And I really wonder what will happen to a culturally divided country as Libya. Can they unite as one or are there just a load of opportunist bidding their time to fight for control among the lines of Somalia tribes/gangs.

Of course Nato will want to prevent that to happen, because Libya has something that Somalia does not, OIL!
So although Stefan is very cynical imo, he may be right about an upcoming oil-trade program.


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Offline Steiner8834

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #773 on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:47 »
If the Islamic Rebels win this civil war, the country will be transformed into a Islamic Caliphate with the Sharia as the supreme Law of the Land.  Equal rights for women will disapear. Public hangings for homosexuals and stonings will be a common thing in Libya.

Thank you Nato for bombing Libya back into the MIDDLE AGE!!! >:(

I still hope the Libyan Army can turn the rudder around.



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« Last Edit: 23-08-2011, 12:08:10 by Steiner8834 »

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #774 on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:31 »
That might happen, but might also not happen.
Lybia has more contact to us hedonistic westerners than Iran in it's times. The common populace of the cities will be very hard fetched to go the fundamentalist road to 100% sharia law.
Just because you have Islamic rebels doesn't make them fundamentalist.

BTW who are you Steiner and I don't think you're 23 years old ;)
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Offline Steiner8834

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #775 on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:44 »
That might happen, but might also not happen.
Lybia has more contact to us hedonistic westerners than Iran in it's times. The common populace of the cities will be very hard fetched to go the fundamentalist road to 100% sharia law.
Just because you have Islamic rebels doesn't make them fundamentalist.

Never trust an islamic rebel mate. Look at history. The US supported islamic rebels in Afghanistan. In the end Afghanistan was transformed into a religious hell hole.

Quote
BTW who are you Steiner and I don't think you're 23 years old ;)

Well youre right I'm actually 21 years old and I'm a big fan of Forgotten Hope 2. Im playing it for about 5 years now. Why I post about Libya is because I cant stand this rebel Hype in the media anymore. So much people think that the rebels are the good freedom loving guys. That is not the case. These are the people who want to transform the country into a religious Dictatorship with all the "nice" little things as you can see in Iran. Sure Gaddafi is a Dictator and he has committed a lot of crimes but at least he is predictable and he helped the west against islamic rebels like Al Quaida after 9/11.

Offline Steiner8834

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #776 on: 23-08-2011, 13:08:32 »
Another nice little puzzle piece about the rebels and their Transnational Council.

A draft of their new constitution has been released:

Quote
Libyan Draft Constitution: Sharia is ‘Principal Source of Legislation’

Lachlan Markay

The dust has not yet settled over the Libyan capital of Tripoli since rebels took control over the weekend. But already, a draft constitutional charter for the transitional state has appeared online (embedded below). It is just a draft, mind you, and gauging its authenticity at this point is difficult. There is also no way to know whether this draft or something similar will emerge as the final governing document for a new Libyan regime.

As both the Morning Bell and Washington in a Flash noted today, Heritage Fellow Jim Phillips recently pointed out that Islamist forces “appear to make up a small but not insignificant part of the opposition coalition,” and must be prevented “from hijacking Libya’s future.” Parts of the draft Constitution allay those fears, while others exacerbate them.

Much of the document describes political institutions that will sound familiar to citizens of Western liberal democracies, including rule of law, freedom of speech and religious practice, and a multi-party electoral system.

But despite the Lockean tenor of much of the constitution, the inescapable clause lies right in Part 1, Article 1: “Islam is the Religion of the State, and the principal source of legislation is Islamic Jurisprudence (Sharia).” Under this constitution, in other words, Islam is law. That makes other phrases such as “there shall be no crime or penalty except by virtue of the law” and “Judges shall be independent, subject to no other authority but law and conscience” a bit more ominous.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/22/libyan-draft-constitution-sharia-is-principal-source-of-legislation/

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Offline Zoologic

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #777 on: 23-08-2011, 13:08:13 »
A nice right-wing view of the world right there.  ;D

Steiner and Tolga do have a point there. You have to view every uprising in each country on it's own merits. And I really wonder what will happen to a culturally divided country as Libya. Can they unite as one or are there just a load of opportunist bidding their time to fight for control among the lines of Somalia tribes/gangs.

Of course Nato will want to prevent that to happen, because Libya has something that Somalia does not, OIL!
So although Stefan is very cynical imo, he may be right about an upcoming oil-trade program.

Oil might enrage many people. But how about uranium? Any resource trade, with political reasons is outrageous. But obviously, NATO wants something there. So they might endorse certain candidates, which would suit their agenda or just willing to negotiate. I just hope that things can be more balanced.

That the NATO leaders true intention is simply listening to domestic voices to send aid to Libya to win cheap votes in the next election (although it proved to be long/5 months and costly).

I take it that Stefan is talking from the moral point of view (from which, he is right).

BTW, there is LA Times there... it is quite okay IMO.

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #778 on: 23-08-2011, 13:08:44 »
Well youre right I'm actually 21 years old and I'm a big fan of Forgotten Hope 2. Im playing it for about 5 years now...

Was just trying to deduce the 88 and 34 in your name. Thx for proving me right. ;)
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Offline Steiner8834

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Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« Reply #779 on: 23-08-2011, 13:08:13 »
Well youre right I'm actually 21 years old and I'm a big fan of Forgotten Hope 2. Im playing it for about 5 years now...

Was just trying to deduce the 88 and 34 in your name. Thx for proving me right. ;)

Well then. The number is only there because Steiner was already in use. My FH2 Account for example has an 9999 behind Steiner. ;)