Conspiracies Thread Mk II

[jan_kurator]

Is Cpt. Bocquier a betatester? Because he is playing on Testmap A with other betatesters.

Hey, this is the conspiracy thread. It might lead to something 

have you heard about FH2 open beta? I haven't, so what lead are you talking about? IMHO you've just answered your question.

[Turkish007]

I meant some interesting topic might come up.

[jan_kurator]

Really? So tell me what custom maps have you already played? 2 or 3?

Edit: and suck in what way?

I played most of the custom nontournament maps and they suck in many ways. In some cases these are gameplay wise issues or basic desing problems (by looking on some maps you can easily see that some mappers didn't even have a good idea when they started) Non logical static placement and lack of details are the most common problems, many bugs, lack of historical accuracy (even if it is possible to get without map specific content like statics and vehicles) balance issues etc, etc. It's hard to write about all maps together - some are made of pure fail and some are quite good, but even the best maps are about 80% finished when you consider amount of work needed to polish them. Small issues mean that devs would need to spent time on bringing them to FH2 quality, no one have time to do so and original mappers usually aren't interested in finishing their maps or just don't cooperate. When it comes to tournament maps, they can be great but only on tournaments where gameplay is completely diffrenet than public play.


Also: I found funny that most of custom map lovers usually play on low details and they bitching about implementing them when they can't even see difference between good quality map and shit (good graphics is one of aspects which make FH2 unique)

[sheikyerbouti]

 Lots of the tournament maps are of the same calibre of gameplay (if not way better) than anything Fh2 has officially released. In addition, some of the maps we enjoy were created by pubbies (like Schism-RTVL).

 World at War and Forgotten Honor have long put out material that plays well, looks great and has sufficient 'detail' to provide immersive sensation. Their gameplay does not require tournament participation and the 2 tournaments, apart from bolstering a weak fan base, have also contributed ideas to the mod that prove (without any doubt) that Fh2 still has a long way to go, in terms of the maps, statics and theatres that the entire FH2 fanbase could enjoy.

eg: Fh1 map ports, Italian theatre, French Hope mod, NAVAL WARFARE!!!, static and vehicle ports from FH1 (proof of concept courtesy of RAD), etc.


 The biggest argument that is raised is the red herring of "Fh2 quality", what exactly is Fh2 quality when the Dev team has constantly changed members over the years. Was it Lobo or Rad's quality? Was it Natty, Gunnie or Azrael's? Mr. Cheese, Benseras, Ts4, DarkPepe, or Snoox's? I could continue ad nauseam.

The greatest issue to having public submissions accepted would be to actually provide a public overview and a set of expectations so that all potential contributor's could actually participate, which is contradictory to the Fh2 practice of protecting all materials from public release in order to prevent speculation. By not being transparent in their goals and desires, we the fanbase are left to speculate, when we could have mobilized our skillsets to contribute  (an example would be to hold public competition for certain items like houses, vegetation or minor environmental objects.)

 To all of those who question the development process, we must bear in mind that FH2 doesn't even test full servers and their Beta test group is far too small and over-populated by nepotism. Bear that in mind when we are given limited opinions from a very small group that dominates the conversation by being so-called 'experts'.

 Tons of us would love to be testers but one must be invited, so if you don't belong to an elite cadre, you are shit out of luck regardless of the opinions, skills and professionalism that we could actually provide.  (for example, I have professional experience as a game tester on 4 released titles with 2 separate studio's yet my past requests to contribute to the team have all fallen on deaf ears.)

 Russia was announced years ago, but nothing yet...  Finland has been promised, but nothing yet... a French team mobilized, but was shot dead...  Pacific theatre is never to be...


 How hard would it be to actually ask for help one of these days?

[jan_kurator]

You can always apply for a beta tester but with you attitude you won't become a one. Are you aware of that? Probably yes, because I can see thick butthurt spilling out of every of your posts. I would be really happy to see you in the team because you would finally learn something and shut the fuck up. Normall person can't be wrong in so many aspects in one post and try to look like a smartass at the same time.

[Pejsaty]

Really? So tell me what custom maps have you already played? 2 or 3?

Edit: and suck in what way?

I played most of the custom nontournament maps and they suck in many ways. In some cases these are gameplay wise issues or basic desing problems (by looking on some maps you can easily see that some mappers didn't even have a good idea when they started) Non logical static placement and lack of details are the most common problems, many bugs, lack of historical accuracy (even if it is possible to get without map specific content like statics and vehicles) balance issues etc, etc. It's hard to write about all maps together - some are made of pure fail and some are quite good, but even the best maps are about 80% finished when you consider amount of work needed to polish them. Small issues mean that devs would need to spent time on bringing them to FH2 quality, no one have time to do so and original mappers usually aren't interested in finishing their maps or just don't cooperate. When it comes to tournament maps, they can be great but only on tournaments where gameplay is completely diffrenet than public play.


Also: I found funny that most of custom map lovers usually play on low details and they bitching about implementing them when they can't even see difference between good quality map and shit (good graphics is one of aspects which make FH2 unique)

If I only looked at graphics aspect I would play BF3... Many custom maps have better gameplay than these which are already in game... If you don't release new maps soon, this mod will die, which already is happening...

[CptdeS35]

Who actually cares?

True.

[Chad1992]

I have to admit the defense is kinda weak.  The reason for no custom maps i hear is the lack of detail and historical accuracy. I gotta ask when your playing the the game do you really take the time to stop and look at the details?

[McCloskey]

I have to admit the defense is kinda weak.  The reason for no custom maps i hear is the lack of detail and historical accuracy. I gotta ask when your playing the the game do you really take the time to stop and look at the details?

facepalm'd. you don't really notice the details, that's why it's called details. but if they aren't there, you WILL notice they are missing. it's like audio in movies, there's millions of various sounds your ears take for granted so they have to be in there even though you focus mainly on the video, because it they aren't, the movie sucks... and I'll take quality over quantity any day when it comes to maps, some of the tournament maps are just so bad I can't force myself to play more than a couple of rounds on them anymore because when you take the details out, you have crap.

[Chad1992]

Well this is how i see it.  Mapping is the hardest and longest process for the devs.  And there is a community out there willing to help, but their help is turned down do to their skill level.  If I had mapping skills I wouldnt try because I know my maps wouldn't get in.  If I was a dev I would encourage newbies to keep trying, even using their maps just to give them courage.  There are several maps in the game that have been worked, reworked and re-reworked and some still aren't perfect.  If the devs want this game to stay alive there gonna have to help the new guys.  The devs were not born master mappers and modders.  You never know you may pick up a new mapper or two and then they have a buddy whos starting to model and what do you know your numbers are growing.

To the devs, I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm simply saying what i feel.  Your doing a great job and I hope you stay with it, even with the community breathing down your neck.

[Jimi Hendrix]

 The Devs have made some shitty maps themselves.....

-Seige Of Tobruk
-Aberdeen
-Hurtgen Forest
-Gazala
-Alam Halfa
-Ramelle Neuville
(mostly africa maps)

and some great ones......

- St. Lo. Breakthrough
- Eppledorf
- Purple Heart Lane
- Bastogne
- Port en Bessin

 I could map in BF1942, but BF2 mapping is a whole different animal. I just cant do it.

 but i agree with Chad.....more maps are needed & if the Devs look at a custom mapper & require them to meet the current mapping standards to even be considered, then finding more help will be very difficult.



 

[Surfbird]

Ah, about those shitty maps...Of course the earlier North Africa maps are kinda simple and have different gameplay than the latest maps. But it's an developement and I sometimes enjoy this simplicity very much. I don't think that Gazala, Siege of Tobruk, El Alamein and Alam Halfa are bad maps for example.

The way I have fun on those maps differs a lot from most other maps though. Nothing better than sitting in Alam Halfa crater after placing mines, with tanks just on top of you. But I know other people feel totally different about this and that's fine.

About this custom map discussion:

Generally, mappers in the community should not be discouraged on the one hand, but jan_kurator was right when he said, that many of them are too confident about their work. I mean, it's their maps,
they are free to do what they want. But neither they, nor the community should expect the maps to be in the mod then. I don't think there are that many people that really want their map in the mod and are willing to sacrifice certain features to make it eventually happen.

Anyway, if someone is really coming up with a serious attempt to get a map in the mod, it's the devs that should look if it has potential and work together with that person in order to bring the map in the mod. Give tips, feedback, things that are obligatory to be fixed/changed etc. I doubt someone who does not know the standards exactly is able to make a map that exactly has what the devs want.

So, cooperation with open minded mappers that know how to map is the way to bring maps in the mod. Custom maps are great for tournaments as it's fun to play something different. They also fit there because of other playstyle in tournaments but would do a lot worse in public games.

Because creating good maps for public games is what the intention of the FH2 devs is, they set the standard there. They have shown that they are good at it and in the end I also want to have quality maps in the mod, not half-worked out custom maps. What's needed from the devs is, that they are willing to give feedback and share their knowledge and I doubt they deny that when someone comes up who is open-minded and has potential in him and in the basic map idea.

[jan_kurator]

Anyway, if someone is really coming up with a serious attempt to get a map in the mod, it's the devs that should look if it has potential and work together with that person in order to bring the map in the mod. Give tips, feedback, things that are obligatory to be fixed/changed etc. I doubt someone who does not know the standards exactly is able to make a map that exactly has what the devs want.

all you need is to apply for a mapper position

[pizzzaman]

Did I say it wasn't? It just haven't been used so much in Afrcia and we don't (won't) have pacific and italy front, that's the case and that was my point. And why should I compare group as a whole when we have maps with americans only in normandy and bulge, except sidi bou zid, which has it's own vehicle setup?

Foy? where?

in Battle of Bulge

On the test server

Maybe it was but there is no Foy I know about atm. I think that limit of Ardennes map is reached.

So then, what the hell are we recieving in next patch besides Normandy?

[Turkish007]

From august 2012 news archive:

In other news, we are still working hard to get the Eastern Front ready, and you should expect to see some more Soviet and German equipment from that theatre in the news. But we might also have a few other surprises before the Eastern Front patch. Keep a look out for some new scenarios and content in our current theatres.

I see more Western Front.