Author Topic: Battlefield 3  (Read 236416 times)

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1005 on: 02-09-2011, 07:09:13 »
Come on Fuchs, stop trolling an old man.
Anyhow, I'd like to know what you guys think of the EULA that comes with Origin.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/battlefield-3/news/6330914/ea-origin-eula-sparks-privacy-concerns
That's the only thing preventing me from a purchase at the moment.
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Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1006 on: 02-09-2011, 09:09:57 »
How's people's gaming rigs? I know I need a new rig to be capable of dealing with it (and RO:HoS)
My four year old computer can hold it's ground, but not against those games.

my current
CPU: E8400
2x ATI hd4870 crossfire
8 DDR2 RAM
a crappy MB from Foxconn.

I'd say you'll be able to play RO (albeit without crossfire as it seems right now the game doesn't like it, not that you need it anyways as the 4870 is as strong as the recommended 5770)... Upgrade to a quad core and you're prolly good for BF3 too...
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1007 on: 02-09-2011, 09:09:29 »
Quote
..."You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services," Section 2 reads...

Quote
...The addition of the "software, software usage" verbiage could be interpreted as including the ability to monitor any installed program, regardless of its provenance. EA's Origin EULA also adds the right for the publisher to share whatever it finds with anyone it chooses...
- http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/battlefield-3/news/6330914/ea-origin-eula-sparks-privacy-concerns


Sneaky bastards. I'd like to know how them knowing what's on my HDD is going to help improve "services"... :-\

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1008 on: 02-09-2011, 09:09:42 »
The more intrusive spyware they force-feed gamers in the form of DRM and/or digital distribution, the more will acquire their copy from Piratebay instead. Further, any and all copy protections have been cracked or will be cracked, it's just a nuisance that alienates paying customers, nothing more. Of course, if EA Origin is indeed what the EULA claims, that steps way, way over the line.

I really hope someone challenges the provisions of that EULA in a court of law here in Europe - we already have had several cases where a US-written EULA has been declared by a court to be null and void outside the US when it comes to conditions prohibiting reselling, modifying, reverse engineering, etc. Demanding the rights equivalent to a police search warrant in exchange to allow the use of a software is certainly unreasonable. Unfair terms and conditions are automatically voided, so all it takes is one brave individual who can prove that the EA spyware snoops around his computer and takes this to a court, and at least us Euros will probably get a toned-down version of EA Origin as a result.

By the way, how does one differentiate "illegally downloaded material"? There once was a lulzy software that was distributed by the local arm of the copyright mafia, advertised to parents concerned of their children's net usage. What the program did was to simply uninstall all p2p programs (because, you know, torrenting eg. FH2 must be illegal) and then proceed to delete all sound and video files not protected by DRM (this was before even iTunes started selling, whaddyaknow, unprotected mp3's).

---

That said, I cannot understand why I should be forced to install bloated spyware on my computer if I purchase a physical disc copy of a game. So far, my honestly purchased Duke Nukem Forever has been laying in my bookshelf because it tries to force-feed me the Steam. Oh well, maybe I'll just download a pirate copy that certainly does not require Steam.

Offline Natty

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1009 on: 02-09-2011, 11:09:27 »
@Fuchs, I lost interest in what you were talking about... what was it again?

@Cannonfodder... don't youhave Steam? Same thing there, it also "spies" on you and informs Steam about what you do and have on your HDD. (ex; what browser you're using etc)

In the old days, you could buy games on some floppy disk, and read directly from them!
In the not-so-old days you could buy games on CDs and install them, and then play
In the last generation you could start downloading games directly to your computer and play.

Now, games are such complex and big services that it isn't enough with just the games, for the companies to manage their customers. That's the reason you need extra applications. You aren't complaining that you need an Operative System, right? Or that you need a Web browser? Same thing here.
You can ofcourse, continue playing old-school games which don't require anything, but then you will miss out on all the cool stuff that new games & gaming services can provide you.

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1010 on: 02-09-2011, 12:09:21 »
Yes Natty, but why is everyone so up in arms about it?

AFAIK Steam does not have such an extensive wording in it's EULA, restricting it's 'spying' only to programs used by steam and asks you every single time when you share something with it's service.
That's a big difference to the Origin EULA. What happened to the good old account servers and CD-Keys? That's all the info IMHO that a company needs to prevent pirating of it's software. They'd just have to invest a bit more in good CD-Key encryption software and not just print the bloody things in one go with one algorithm...

Anyone who wants the goodies can still access them via webpage. God knows how many web pages I had to register with and how many accounts EA has from me now. Why force an extra program on me that doesn't help with that?
« Last Edit: 02-09-2011, 12:09:24 by DLFReporter »
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Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1011 on: 02-09-2011, 12:09:13 »
His answer will probaly be=Piracy


The more you attempt to prevent something from being pirate, the More the thing is actually pirated

Like Spore. Remeber how much money EA poured in it to prevent it from being pirated? in 3 days it was the most pirated game ever with 1.5 million times being downloaded illegaly
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Offline Natty

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1012 on: 02-09-2011, 12:09:38 »
What happened to the good old account servers and CD-Keys? That's all the info IMHO that a company needs to prevent pirating of it's software.

Keyword here being "opinion"^ :) But apparently it isn't all the info they need? If so they wouldnt have made Origin... or Im not sure what the discussion is about, really? That EA developes a platform only for the sake of forcing you to install it? I don't see any reason discussing it... If you refuse to get Origin, play other games... Just like you need iTunes if you want to use an iPod... you can get other mp3 players which dont require iTunes. Im sure Apple could also develop the iPod so you can just get it as an external drive and drag n drop tunes to it. But they didnt, they want you to use iTunes, so that's what you need to do if you want to use their products.

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1013 on: 02-09-2011, 12:09:40 »
@Natty: Yes i do, good thing I don't use it that often.


I see your point, particularly if we're talking online gaming, but I don't agree with not being given the option (short of piracy) to not use these services.

Perfect example is Civilization V, this isn't what you'd consider an online game, yet I'm forced to have Steam running in the background because it won't work without it.

There is no service Steam can provide me for this game, short of automatically patching the game...but then I'm not entirely useless, I can DL patches myself.


As such, my use of this extra application does absolutely nothing for me or my gaming experience, but it gives Valve the opportunity to wave DLC under my nose.


And speaking of DLC, if they couldn't be bothered putting a proper expansion pack together and putting it on a disc, I couldn't be bothered opening my wallet...:P

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1014 on: 02-09-2011, 13:09:57 »
Keyword here being "opinion"^ :) But apparently it isn't all the info they need? If so they wouldnt have made Origin... or Im not sure what the discussion is about, really? That EA developes a platform only for the sake of forcing you to install it? I don't see any reason discussing it... If you refuse to get Origin, play other games... Just like you need iTunes if you want to use an iPod... you can get other mp3 players which dont require iTunes. Im sure Apple could also develop the iPod so you can just get it as an external drive and drag n drop tunes to it. But they didnt, they want you to use iTunes, so that's what you need to do if you want to use their products.

You are twisting it around.
I would accept a DRM type of program (like Steam), I could live with that (I don't use any of this iCrap on my PC, WinAMP does quite fine on its own). I just mean, why do they have to try to make an extra buck out of my private data when I cash out 50-60€ while buying their game? EA had a Downloader/Online Store for their games, but it failed and now they are forcing it on me because of their buisness plan.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for competition in a free market and someone has to come in to break steams monopoly, BUT WHY do they need that special passage in their EULA? I want to play and enjoy their game without having to think about what they are reading and scanning in my private files. Yes they say they will only give them away anonymised, but it's already bad that they have my data.
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Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1015 on: 02-09-2011, 13:09:44 »
What else happens with your scanned data? Will they delete accounts because users have "suspicious" software, such as P2P programs or programs that can create ISO files that could be used to pirate software? There´s no way to find out what´s going to happen with your data and that´s pretty dangerous.
Another thing that makes Origin pretty unalluring is that you need to be online all the time. Steam atleast has an offline mode, but you can´t play BF 3 (not even the singleplayer mode) without an internet connection.
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1016 on: 02-09-2011, 13:09:52 »
In the old days, you could buy games on some floppy disk, and read directly from them!
In the not-so-old days you could buy games on CDs and install them, and then play
In the last generation you could start downloading games directly to your computer and play.

Now, games are such complex and big services that it isn't enough with just the games, for the companies to manage their customers. That's the reason you need extra applications. You aren't complaining that you need an Operative System, right? Or that you need a Web browser? Same thing here.
You can ofcourse, continue playing old-school games which don't require anything, but then you will miss out on all the cool stuff that new games & gaming services can provide you.
Ha ha ha.

I wonder why the very same "cool" games can be played on consoles? Also, at least I can choose my web browser and I certainly wouldn't use one that scans my hard drive for "inappropriate" content. Likewise, an operating system would certainly not be allowed to send a report of your computer's contents to anyone, whether you gave a "permission" for that or not. What exactly is this "cool stuff" that could not be implemented with a combination of in-game menus and web browser? I have not seen that in any games yet and don't expect to see one in my lifetime. Downloading updates? Entirely possible to do that in-game. Downloading extra content? Entirely possible to do that in-game as well. Integration with social media? Entirely possible to do that in-game or with game-launched browser session. Charging customers for even the tiniest piece of new content, eventually even updates, and making everything pay-to-play? Yes, for that a new platform is useful. Making it impossible for customers to play an older title when a new title in a franchise is released? Yes, for that "experience" an external application is also very useful. Revoking license for bought games if a single pirated title is found on the computer? Yes, for that an external application is also very useful.

"Managing customers" is thinly veiled excuse for "spying customers so we can target them with commercials and/or tell about them to copyright organizations for a reward". The most appalling thing is that EA already got caught once for the former, got punished, and now they're trying it again? Like I said, US-written EULA is only good for toilet paper in the EU, from a consumer point of view it is unreasonable if a game starts to track what websites I visit, what music I have stored on my computer, etc. Not only is it unnecessary, but it violates privacy in a way that cannot be justified.

The abominable iPod & iTunes combo is a good example of how separate applications are not required except for marketing purposes, intrusion of privacy and censorship. Most other MP3 players do appear as regular USB memory sticks, if proprietary software is not used, and they work very well nevertheless. Somehow, most other webstores also can sell music without installing anything on your computer. But then again, we're talking about Apple here - I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of Macs would be forced to use AppStore. That would be only logical and historically in line, because free software development and release for the Mac is a recent phenomenon anyway (which is also one of the main reasons why "IBM compatibles" came to dominate the personal computer market since the 1980's will do so for the foreseeable future).

The only kind of digital distribution channel that I approve of is the way Good Old Games are selling games - there's no DRM and no mandatory spyware involved.
« Last Edit: 02-09-2011, 14:09:38 by Kelmola »

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1017 on: 02-09-2011, 14:09:36 »
Impressive post Kelmola, I fully agree with you.

Offline G.Drew

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1018 on: 02-09-2011, 14:09:32 »
the EULA may be reworded now, but my BF3 preorder still hangs in the balance. The last thing I want to do is to pay for spam and other such bs while EA makes a tidy buck on my details.
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Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1019 on: 02-09-2011, 15:09:55 »
the EULA may be reworded now, but my BF3 preorder still hangs in the balance. The last thing I want to do is to pay for spam and other such bs while EA makes a tidy buck on my details.
As does mine.