American Youth Camps

[johnkeel105]

Sorry I did not notice the post Lupin I find it interesting though that the bill got passed without the mandatory wording, but a new bill has it and they are trying to pass it. The most discusting thing about all this, is that us Americans are told all is great and this is a great thing by our nightly news.....

[[130.Pz]S.Tiemann]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS2rJP-udUs[/youtube]

please note i dont actually think obama is hitler at all i just thought this fit the topic.
(its a joke)

edit* how does youtube work on this forum?

[Lupin]

Sorry I did not notice the post Lupin I find it interesting though that the bill got passed without the mandatory wording, but a new bill has it and they are trying to pass it. The most discusting thing about all this, is that us Americans are told all is great and this is a great thing by our nightly news.....

Nah man it's alright. You posted the whole thing while I just made brief mention of it.

[Wilhelm]

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1388/show

Taken from the link posted above:

OpenCongress Summary:

The Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education (GIVE) Act would dramatically increase funding for AmeriCorps and other volunteer programs, including those for seniors and veterans. It also establishes a goal of expanding from 75,000 government-supported volunteers to 250,000, and would increase education funding and establish a summer service program for students, paying $500 (which would be applied to college costs) to high-school and middle-school student who participate.

In its current form, the legislation does not include a mandate requiring service.

All this bill is doing is providing for more funding and increased incentives for enrolling in volunteer programs.  I lightly skimmed H.R. 1388, but I did not see any mention of mandatory service and the quoted material above also says there is none.

Even if something like this passed with some sort of mandatory service added on, the federal government could not enforce it (unless I am mistaken).  It would be up to the States and would continue to filter out making no significant impact on those who do not participate in volunteer-based programs.

EDIT - And to make things clear, I am neither for nor against the bill.  If it was indeed the way you guys make it out to be, I would be very much against it.  However, I don't feel like this will have any kind of impact on my life or those younger than I in any significant way.

[Sir Apple]

Ah yes, I've known about this for a couple weeks. Right now it's pretty much all school aged kids, up to 21 that have to serve but the government is looking at making seniors, and then every citizen conscripted into this program. And their idea of community service as described in the bill isn't things like planting trees and picking up garbage, they want to use the children as free labor to fix up roads and renovate government buildings and things like that. One of the bills also describes standard issue uniforms and "political education" as part of the program.

While you are in this program, you are forbidden from doing anything involving politics, such as protesting, anything involving legislation, etc etc.

This is also against the 13th amendment of the constitution:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

This is clearly involuntary servitude, which makes these youth camps against the law and the constitution. But I think they found a loop hole around that. You see, they can force you to do service for a crime, and if something is mandatory (like these camps) it would be a crime to refuse, and they can punish you by making you do it.

I have also heard reports of them wanting to make all adults serve 3 months a year of mandatory "community service".

They just won't give us a break.

Oh and I'm sorry if I made any glaring errors about the bill in my post. I haven't read about it for a while and I'm pretty tired right now.

I must say, I'm somewhat pissed after reading that. There is just no way I'll do that. You may say I'm talking tuff cause this is the internet and all, but no. I will not be someone elses slave.

Just, no.

So, what, am I supposed to spend my summer serving Obama? Absolutely the hell no.  

I really hope this doesn't become full circle until I'm at least 21. That, or Americans protest this.

If they send me a letter telling me to report to some camp, I'll send them a birthday card with "fuck you" on a 10 dollar bill.

Sorry, but things like this really get me going. I've always been taught to rebel against illegitimacy and unconstitutional laws in this country.

Exactly, with the mindset of today's youth it would be near impossible to implement such a program. What are they going to do if hundreds of thousands of people boycott it? I know where i live, the school has a hard time enforcing attendance to assembelys and things such as diversity days where there are a bunch of bullshit seminars to attend. Enforcing this kind of organized labour would be diffucult.
(rep to apple)

Yeah.

There is just no way anyone would subject to this kind of Nazi bullying. I read the posts below about the camp rules. And, I really laughed at them. There is no way any high school student would abide by them. The parents of these kids wouldn't sit around and let their kids be bullied by the government. My parents basically said to me: You better not become a slave for someone who has screwed you over for the past 8 years. .

So what would they do? Send thousands of teenagers to jail? Imagine what that would do to the real educational system.


Not only that, but businesses would be effected severely. Um, if they started drafting adults into it, that would even more so effect the businesses. I mean, I can't even begin to state the grim consequences of this bill, if it was put into act.


Now, I know this bill was just for them to try and figure out a way for it to work. But, something tells me by the time they get that figured out, there is no chance of it passing. Obama's approval rating is in the 50% range since he took office, originally it was 81%.


The reason Obama is forcing all these extreme bills on us is because he knows hes a one term president. No doubt about it. Trust me, this is just the beginning. We in America have 4 years of this before we can hopefully get a breathe of fresh air.


Oh and thanks for rep, Tie.


Also Wilhelm:

...education funding and establish a summer service program for students, paying $500 (which would be applied to college costs) to high-school and middle-school student who participate.

Sorry but that doesn't fly with me. I can make 3 times that, easily.


With that said,

This won't pass.

Cheers

[Wilhelm]

Also Wilhelm:

...education funding and establish a summer service program for students, paying $500 (which would be applied to college costs) to high-school and middle-school student who participate.

Sorry but that doesn't fly with me. I can make 3 times that, easily.


With that said,

This won't pass.

Cheers

That is why it is called volunteer work.  Your primary argument is that it is a mandatory service being pressed upon you, but it is not (at least in its current form and I don't see it passing any other way other than remaining strictly voluntary).

And of course you could make more money than what that program offers, but that doesn't mean anything.  The primary focus of such programs is to expose young people to active volunteer work and such things.  Kids go to camp all the time and receive no compensation at all; this is no different other than the fact that you actually get something out of participating in it if you so choose to do so.

Your arguments and that email notification are full of fear-mongering and is influenced by such (not a personal attack, SirApple!  )

The government could not prosecute any individual for refusing to participate in such a program, either (I am applying this to the hypothetical cases you stated previously of kids being jailed).  You give too much credit to the government...it really is not as omnipotent as you would think. 

[Wilhelm]

Also Wilhelm:

...education funding and establish a summer service program for students, paying $500 (which would be applied to college costs) to high-school and middle-school student who participate.

Sorry but that doesn't fly with me. I can make 3 times that, easily.


With that said,

This won't pass.

Cheers

That is why it is called volunteer work.  Your primary argument is that it is a mandatory service being pressed upon you, but it is not (at least in its current form and I don't see it passing any other way other than remaining strictly voluntary).

And of course you could make more money than what that program offers, but that doesn't mean anything.  The primary focus of such programs is to expose young people to active volunteer work and such things.  Kids go to camp all the time and receive no compensation at all; this is no different other than the fact that you actually get something out of participating in it if you so choose to do so.

Your arguments and that email notification are full of fear-mongering and are influenced by such (not a personal attack, SirApple!  )

The government could not prosecute any individual for refusing to participate in such a program, either (I am applying this to the hypothetical cases you stated previously of kids being jailed).  You give too much credit to the government...it really is not as omnipotent as you would think. 

[[130.Pz]S.Tiemann]

(at least in its current form and I don't see it passing any other way other than remaining strictly voluntary).

I wouldnt put it past the Government passing such legislation, just look at the patriot act.

[Wilhelm]

I wouldnt put it past the Government passing such legislation, just look at the patriot act.

True, stupid legislation like that does go through.  But that did not affect all individuals in the way that a mandatory service would. 

[Sir Apple]

Also Wilhelm:

...education funding and establish a summer service program for students, paying $500 (which would be applied to college costs) to high-school and middle-school student who participate.

Sorry but that doesn't fly with me. I can make 3 times that, easily.


With that said,

This won't pass.

Cheers

That is why it is called volunteer work.  Your primary argument is that it is a mandatory service being pressed upon you, but it is not (at least in its current form and I don't see it passing any other way other than remaining strictly voluntary).

And of course you could make more money than what that program offers, but that doesn't mean anything.  The primary focus of such programs is to expose young people to active volunteer work and such things.  Kids go to camp all the time and receive no compensation at all; this is no different other than the fact that you actually get something out of participating in it if you so choose to do so.

Your arguments and that email notification are full of fear-mongering and are influenced by such (not a personal attack, SirApple!  )

The government could not prosecute any individual for refusing to participate in such a program, either (I am applying this to the hypothetical cases you stated previously of kids being jailed).  You give too much credit to the government...it really is not as omnipotent as you would think. 

If it isn't as bad as it states, why do they make it seem so awful? Aside from that, I was told by numerous people IRL that they want to push it to be mandatory. They can't (probably) pass it as mandatory. But chances are that it would turn into mandatory. Especially from what I've read as well (information about it provided in this thread).

Nothing about the bill sounds normal.

I can't see this ever getting off the boards. Our government always tries stupid stuff like this, and the people don't buy into it at all.

[[130.Pz]S.Tiemann]

I can't see this ever getting off the boards. Our government always tries stupid stuff like this, and the people don't buy into it at all.

Yes we learn about your government in school, it confuses the hell outta me.

[Wilhelm]

If it isn't as bad as it states, why do they make it seem so awful? Aside from that, I was told by numerous people IRL that they want to push it to be mandatory. They can't (probably) pass it as mandatory. But chances are that it would turn into mandatory. Especially from what I've read as well (information about it provided in this thread).

Nothing about the bill sounds normal.

It sounds so awful because they have to word it in such a specific way that is so technical the average person wouldn't understand or even want to read it all. 

I never looked at a House Resolution before, but I would imagine they all sound like that.

And who told you that it is trying to be pushed through as mandatory?  Unless it is someone directly (and I mean DIRECTLY) involved in the process or the federal government, then that person's word is as good as mine. 

And as you just plainly said yourself:

I can't see this ever getting off the boards. Our government always tries stupid stuff like this, and the people don't buy into it at all.

So what are you worrying about? 

[Sir Apple]

If it isn't as bad as it states, why do they make it seem so awful? Aside from that, I was told by numerous people IRL that they want to push it to be mandatory. They can't (probably) pass it as mandatory. But chances are that it would turn into mandatory. Especially from what I've read as well (information about it provided in this thread).

Nothing about the bill sounds normal.

I can't see this ever getting off the boards. Our government always tries stupid stuff like this, and the people don't buy into it at all.

So what are you worrying about? 

Because my government scares me. I can only hope that something like this wouldn't pass. Although, in a month something else worse will come up, and this bill will be pushed under the rug like always. 

[Flyboy1942]

I doubt we will see any sort of mandatory community service program. Like many have said so far, it is just way too hard to enforce, especially amongst a generation that are inventing new ways to avoid doing ANYTHING at all.

Not to mention the riots that would rightly ensue if the government tried to take away parents children for three months of "political education" or whatever. Also, I dont think they can take away natural rights for a mandatory community service program. Pretty much every first amendment right is listed on that prohibited list, and those are not something the government will ever be able to take away from anyone for any reason.

[Wilhelm]

Because my government scares me. I can only hope that something like this wouldn't pass. Although, in a month something else worse will come up, and this bill will be pushed under the rug like always. 

Then congratulations, you have avoided becoming a slave to the government and succeeded in becoming a slave to fear!

I have lived 20 years of my life without taking any interest in the government at all and nothing bad has happened that affected me! And unlike what many people seem to think, we are far from a police state in the federal sense.  If anything were to be feared, it would come more directly from the local/state level.