Dear PR players

[hOMEr_jAy]

It all comes down to personal preferences. PR isn´t made to please all of the crowd. I get the thrill in PR without shooting 40 people. Just driving with a line of Hummvees through enemy territory is cool. If you like ArmA, you´ll most likely like PR. Again, it´s no "casual game". It´s made for a certain kind of people and that´s ok ^^

[Ccharge]

indeed. Same goes with FH2. Certian breeds of player play certian games. There are still alot that love both but i find alot of people try to combine games they like.

[Lobo]

FH2 is more realistic than PR, we have not magic medics bringing souls from death

Lobo.. please use [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

I would do if my comment was sarcastic, but it wasn't

PR is not more realistic than FH2, and the reviving thing is the most obvious traition to their realism philosophy, I am glad FH didn't go down by that road.

Crosshairs?, old debate, you know my opinions about human neurophisiology, both answers are unrealistic, no crosshair = no realistic portraying of fire from the hip, crosshair = no realistic neither obviously, we have not croses in our vision.

Multi-crewed tanks?, FH2 must portray massive tank battles and combined warfare, multi-crewed tanks can look more realistic but they would not be offer a realistic portrait of WW2 combat.

Spawn system?, to discuss this one would be a waste of time, spawn is unrealistic no matter the system, next one.

Both mods went by the road of cleaner hud, PR some more but they don't solve a common problem with games, the lack of clues we get with our senses IRL, in a game is really hard to feel what's happening, what is shoting at us, where are our buddies, where we got an injury, how much a magazine weights, we can extract the magazine and check how many bullets are, etc, etc, etc. Removal of all hud elements can look realistic, but think twice, is this realism or are you just hiding info to your players?, info that they would get IRL.

As you can check realism in games is a complicated matter and not so easy like you think.

There is only one thing that I really like in PR and is more realistic but I guess we'll never have the guts to feature it: removal of kill messages

[Ts4EVER]

PR sometimes compromises realism in detail to get more realistic end results:

Unrealistic blur effect to simulate suppression
Reviving to get more realistic casualty rates
Too inaccurate weapons to force fire-and-movement-tactics

[Torenico]

[IMO]
Well i think the spawn system is ok or awesome.

Why? because the players will try to get in cover... it would make the things more tactical. I mean.. if theres a guy shooting at you IRL.. you wont run like a crazy shooting everywhere.. no, you will run and cover. Also.. this feature is directed to the Nilla' Noobs, who run jump run run run jump.. and if you get killed in Vanilla, in 5 seconds you are repeating the same thing.. run run shot shot run urn jump..


2 Man tanks.. ok lets see, more teamwork.. but in Real Life the crews are 100% trained.. whit good comunication. So iuf you have 5 tanks in a Game.. whit 2 guys operating each one.. then the firepower will be reduced. If the tanks are one-man crewed.. then you will need +5 tanks.. and that in PR.. would be stupid. Because 4 eyes are better than 2.. the driver has an 360º view.. thanks to him the gunner can concentrate in a specific target.. if the Driver spots a tank.. coming to his position.. he will run away. Whit one man tanks.. you cant.. because your tank has only 2 eyes.

Its annoying when you are the Gunner or the Driver.. and the guy in your tanks doesnt have a MIC or you dont understand what he is saying.

what is shoting at us, where are our buddies, where we got an injury, how much a magazine weights, we can extract the magazine and check how many bullets are, etc, etc, etc. Removal of all hud elements can look realistic, but think twice, is this realism or are you just hiding info to your players?, info that they would get IRL.

Alright lets see here.

It would be cool if you can pull the Magazine out and check how many bullets do you have.. but you know.. you work in the BF2 engine and it sucks, really. Removal of HUD, Crosshair, SL Spawn (Wich is annoying.. damn annoying.. you spawn and someone shoots you in the back) and the kill messages, IMO its awesome. I mean.. IRL you dnt have a marker wich says how many magazines do you have (But PR still has it.. dunno why its still there),I n real life you dont know the sniper who killed you.. or if you killed a player you dont know who is him, IRL people doesnt carry their names above their heads.. they still appear in PR but for close range.. maybe you can aim directly to the guy and it will tell you who is him. Crosshair.. you said it, people doesnt have a cross in their eyes.

In other words.. you cannot make a realistic game.. all you want like bleeding and shit, but theres something left.. fear factor.. surprise factor.. terror. It doesnt exist.. never in a Multiplayer game where the ppl are having fun. Fun kills fear.

[/IMO]

[Wilhelm]

The main arguement for having single-crewed tanks in FH2 is that you only have 64 players in the game.  If you want massive battles like in WW2, you need infantry on the ground and doing other roles...not driving a tank while the other controls the gun.  This works in PR because modern warfare utilizes fewer fighting vehicles to maximum effect. 

[Safe-Keeper]

This thread hits a pet peeve of mine, so let me write a few lines on what I think.

I strongly feel that when someone makes a suggestion, what should matter is whether or not it's a good suggestion. All too often, however, not just in the FH2 community, but in game forums in general, I see a feature be suggested for then to be shot down in flames solely on the grounds that "it's realistic" or "it's a PR suggestion", sometimes reminding me of an ox instinctively charging a red towel. As a modder/tester myself, this hits a nerve with me because "it's realistic" is such a non-answer because the rest of us are left to make wile guesses at why you disliked the proposal.

My personal opinion: if you dislike a feature, tell us why.
"I don't like it because it's realistic" is as much of a non-answer as "I don't want this as it's historically correct" or "I don't like that model because it looks too real". Closeness to reality is a good thing in my eyes.
"That's a PR suggestion, and this is not PR" is not answer as it first of all is generalizing and secondly misses the fact that PR and FH2 actually have many features in common .
"That'll eliminate fun" is an all-time favorite nemesis of mine because it arrogantly assumes there's only one standard of fun, and that there can't be people out there with different ideas of 'fun' than you. Not to mention that you don't say how it'll eliminate fun.
But "I don't want removal of crosshairs because it'd deter the fast-paced firefights we're aiming for and because you in reality can fire from the hip"? This actually leaves the rest of us with something to think about and discuss.

As for Project Reality's realism system, I believe they run a very consistent "end justifies the means" philosophy. They have medics reviving team mates because this allows the squads to stay together more, and people fighting together is more realistic than people fighting alone. They don't have crosshairs because this makes people aim down their sights more, which in turn is realistic. And so on. Of course FH2 does this to a degree, too (for example, single-crewed tanks are not realistic, but it allows massive tank engagements, which is realistic).

[Admiral Donutz]

There is only one thing that I really like in PR and is more realistic but I guess we'll never have the guts to feature it: removal of kill messages

I still would like to see kill messages removed, I pushed for this ages ago and haven't changed my opinion (unless it turns out not to work in public play by actually introducing it in atleast one public patch). It's just cheating to shoot at a target just as long as you can see the kill confimation text or to continue looking for an enemy you spotted and fired at but that dived fr the ground and is now not visible (and you being unsure if he dropped dead or dove away and is going to pup up again to fire at you).

Kil messages must go.
*changes signature*

Ontopic: As for those that use "It's (too) realistic" and it not being a vlaid argument. Well it might not fully explain why the author thinks it wouldn't work but it does get a point across. A game remains a game, thus maing it too realistic would harm gameplay. Removing all HUD elements for exampl would be "too  realistic"  (as humans have no HUD  in real life) but this would make it unrealistic since people can remember how many magazines they have, estimate how full their magazine is, quickly check it, they have an easier time aiming at people even though they don't have crosshairs etc. 


But yes, it would be nice if people would clarify themselves a bit more and say "It's too realistic, this would harm gameplay  because punishing people by extending respawn time every time they die will punish people who are new to the game and die a lot, punish people who simply aren't a good shot and punish people who take a gamble. This would turn some players away as they would feel punished for just playing the game and scare most other players into doing nothing but hiding in a trench".

In their defense, it can get tiresome to type a lengty reply to something that is "so obviously not going to work"  or to write a reply like it when the suggestion has been suggested since FH 0.5 and shot down the billion times it was brought up (the "ugh not this again"  feeling). 

In the end, suggesting an idea is just fine wether you got inspired by a movie, any other game or mod, any book or whatever other source there is out there. So slapping people because they say "I played PoE/PR/XPWW2/..." or "I watched SPR/ABTF/BoB/...."  is silly. Shooting an idea down with short or lenghty explinatons why such a feature doesn't work in FH is fine though. 

The FH fans can be a bit defensive and are often quickly to jump on the "OMG troll alarm!" bandwagon, which is a bit of a pity. I rather waste time writing a serious reply to a troll post then scaring away a member who sincerely made a "bad" suggestion (but our newbie not knowing what he did wrong).

[508th PIR Hawkeye]

*Agrees with Donutz*

[Kildar]

"It's just cheating to shoot at a target just as long as you can see the kill confimation text or to continue looking for an enemy you spotted and fired at but that dived fr the ground and is now not visible"

Consider that a rifle only takes one shot to kill, a smg a small burst, a mg a smaller burst. You see that you hit the guy you just shot with a rifle in the gut [normally a kill],you see the blood spray effect. you fall behind cover poke your head up he's gone, you run over there to take his piece of cover and haha! A hit box error, he's not bleeding, he knew you where gonna come over here anyway, and you get lit up by a SMG by the guy you just shot. How is this going to be remotely a) Realistic or B) Fun in a engine that seems to more often then not ignore shots in this game. The kill message is more of a confirmation that the engine didn't screw you out of a kill then a actual intelligence gathering form.

[Schneider]

It is more realistic, as you do in reality never have the security your shot was deadly.

[Kubador]

On topic:

I'm here with lightning on this one. Everyone has the right to post his ideas and any idea is better than none. That person by making (even) a PRish suggestion gives a very important message for the devs even if that suggestion was made several times earlier. The devs know how new players would like to see FH in future (more realistic, historically accurate etc.). Just a general tip though - think twice before hitting 'post thread' button.

[Priestdk]

I generaly agree with that people shut be able to surgest things i realy doo what im tyired off is that people dont seem to understand a no from the Dev´s or that iff i would agree with them well i would go play PR but i dont and im realy starting to get tyired off people trying to combine the 2 mods i dont like PR i like FH2 and thats why i play this and not PR, and im not even going to start on the whats realistic thingy seeing im proberly one off the feew guys here ho have actully been(offcause i dont this for sure) to a war zone for real. so pls come with your sergestions but understand also search funtion is your friend:-) and also that alot off the PR surgestions have been asked over and over and over on the old forums, and that might be why some people get a little grumpy from time to time.:-)

I mean i even remember ones before PR version 0,7 whas released(think they are on 0,8 now) i whas actully playing that mod but it whent downhill from there in my opinion and i left, that somone came to the PR forum and made a FH2 surgestion cant recall what but still they also actully flamed the living daylights out off him. Im not saying that justifyes that the People at the FH2 forum does it but im preaty sure they felt the same way we doo here more or less somtimes.

In all honesty:

FH2:Semi realistic historical mod= fun

PR:Trying to be realistic mod= no fun, atleast not for me enymore.

^^^this is my personal opinion offcause^^


Im not trying to bash the PR guys because i respekt what they can doo with the BF2 game, im just tyired of people trying to suff there ways donwn my throat curently.

This whas not surpose to be in enyway flaming post. :-) so sorry iff it looks like it.

[Toddel]

Killmessages will stay! you can remove it only over my dead cold corpse.

I want to know who i have to hate in a Game. i want to know who killed me for the 10th time and i Demand my satisfaction when i finally killed him. I want to have fun seeing how i kill people. and i want the fame when others can see that i killed 4 guys in a row with a knife in a close combat. or shot a full Truck with 8 Persons on it. Thats fun.

about the PR comments. I dont want this Bashing of People here overall. To tell you the truth i am more annoyed about the Stupid Idiots making dumb comments about different opinions.

Respect other Persons and different Opinions.

[Danger X]

Totally agree.

What's the point in killing 8 guys in a row if you can not prove it? It does not discourage egotrips, it encourages less play from fun gamers (gamers who solely play for fun).