Author Topic: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles  (Read 5547 times)

Offline Natty

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #30 on: 15-01-2012, 12:01:38 »
internal repair would be nice for a tanker kit, yes.

people who thinks bailing out and repair with the wrench is "more realistic" is not needed to listen to, what matters is what is most fun and make the tanker kit needed. so yes, Im all for it.

as for pilot kit.. what is the point of parachuting?.you're plane is dead, so you better also die and respawn at airfield and wait for a new plane..it's not like that 1 soldier life that you flew the plane with, matters.

pilots are a special breed. for them, the plane is the life. Not the avatar with the soldier model.

and what does he do when he lands with the pilot kit? gets killed by someone with rifle immediately, or walk all the way back to the airfield, just in time so someone else steals the next spawning plane.

naah, this doesnt work at all as intended. we have no actual mechanics for either pilot, tanker or medic kits. they are quite pointless, and I rather drive a tank with an AT kit so if I lose a tank fight, I can bail and have a chance against him on foot.

give the pilot kit internal repair for the plane, then we have something. same for tanker kits, and give medics placeable spawnpoints and a better medic box that has a greater sphere of healing. + give him scores for people spawning on his box + healing. Then we'd have an actual class with a role.
« Last Edit: 15-01-2012, 12:01:39 by Natty »

Offline Musti

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #31 on: 15-01-2012, 12:01:32 »
internal repairs? THIS aint BATTLEFIELD 3 SON!
but yer, Binocs are somewhat useless for most tankers.
It does become useful if you decide not to reveal your tank and crawl to the edge and spot the enemy for your arty or assess the situation before making your move. Enemy tanks looking right at you can completely miss you if you are prone as opposed to sticking your turret out to use your magnified tank view.
Exactly this.You can just park your tank in a bush, and safely look without being spotted, Its useful when air is full of planes, or when you're about to cross a place where enemy tanks might be. Also binocs have more zoom than tank sights, so its easier to find camping tanks with them.And since you are out of your tank, it doesn't make any engine noise.
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Offline LuckyOne

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #32 on: 15-01-2012, 13:01:51 »
internal repair would be nice for a tanker kit, yes.

people who thinks bailing out and repair with the wrench is "more realistic" is not needed to listen to, what matters is what is most fun and make the tanker kit needed. so yes, Im all for it.

as for pilot kit.. what is the point of parachuting?.you're plane is dead, so you better also die and respawn at airfield and wait for a new plane..it's not like that 1 soldier life that you flew the plane with, matters.

pilots are a special breed. for them, the plane is the life. Not the avatar with the soldier model.

and what does he do when he lands with the pilot kit? gets killed by someone with rifle immediately, or walk all the way back to the airfield, just in time so someone else steals the next spawning plane.

naah, this doesnt work at all as intended. we have no actual mechanics for either pilot, tanker or medic kits. they are quite pointless, and I rather drive a tank with an AT kit so if I lose a tank fight, I can bail and have a chance against him on foot.

give the pilot kit internal repair for the plane, then we have something. same for tanker kits, and give medics placeable spawnpoints and a better medic box that has a greater sphere of healing. + give him scores for people spawning on his box + healing. Then we'd have an actual class with a role.

Well some people just like historical accuracy... (And roleplaying the great escape back to the friendly lines after being shot down  8))
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Offline djinn

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #33 on: 15-01-2012, 14:01:02 »
internal repair would be nice for a tanker kit, yes.

people who thinks bailing out and repair with the wrench is "more realistic" is not needed to listen to, what matters is what is most fun and make the tanker kit needed. so yes, Im all for it.

as for pilot kit.. what is the point of parachuting?.you're plane is dead, so you better also die and respawn at airfield and wait for a new plane..it's not like that 1 soldier life that you flew the plane with, matters.

pilots are a special breed. for them, the plane is the life. Not the avatar with the soldier model.

and what does he do when he lands with the pilot kit? gets killed by someone with rifle immediately, or walk all the way back to the airfield, just in time so someone else steals the next spawning plane.

naah, this doesnt work at all as intended. we have no actual mechanics for either pilot, tanker or medic kits. they are quite pointless, and I rather drive a tank with an AT kit so if I lose a tank fight, I can bail and have a chance against him on foot.

give the pilot kit internal repair for the plane, then we have something. same for tanker kits, and give medics placeable spawnpoints and a better medic box that has a greater sphere of healing. + give him scores for people spawning on his box + healing. Then we'd have an actual class with a role.

Well, we could have medic kits more useful by making bleed matter. For instance, we dont have enough medic kit anyway. And where we do, they are hidden. I know its not realistic to use medical kits etc, etc, so I dont expect it to become a class per se.

Instead, make bleed slower. When you get a shot that makes you bleed, you shouldn't start bleeding immediately.

Instead, you slowly start to go through the phases, like PR, from a mild bleed, where you get slight reddening of the screen, but can still run etc, to a worse degree of bleed, as we have now, but with better vision. Then your vission goes like we currently have and finally, you die, after a LONG time.

A bandage will slow the process from going from phase 1, to phase 2 (walking slow) to phase 3 (Blinded), so you can DEAL with it for a time.

The medic will not just have more bandages, but a medical kit that allows him to completely fix a bleed, albeit slowly. Also the medic can heal players in vehicles, so it will be good for medics to stick to trucks etc.

They CAN defend themselves, but mostly, players will keep them around to prevent the attack stalling because wounds are becoming a problem.

The way it would play out, even wounds that dont get to a bleed, will remain and keep piling until people start bleeding etc. And no bandage can stop that. They can only slow it down. But medics will be able to restore health all the way back.

I dont think pilots should be able to do repairs, because that will be going into the arcade i.e mid-air repairs, and wont represent RL in any way, whereas tank repairs sort of do. But you do have a point about pilot kits not being awfully useful.

But back to tankers.

 

Offline Natty

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #34 on: 15-01-2012, 14:01:40 »
Well some people just like historical accuracy... (And roleplaying the great escape back to the friendly lines after being shot down  8))

historical, you mean tank driver exits the tank and whips out magic wrench, bangs a few times on the hull and restores an almost wrecked tank to perfect factory-fresh condition.

lol  ::)

Offline Slayer

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #35 on: 15-01-2012, 14:01:10 »
Internal repairs for plane... just when you thought you had seen it all...  ::) ::) ::)

Sorry, that is a ridiculous suggestion.  :D

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #36 on: 15-01-2012, 14:01:35 »
Yes, having planes return to base from time to time is necessary for balance and gameplay.

Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #37 on: 15-01-2012, 14:01:43 »
historical, you mean tank driver exits the tank and whips out magic wrench, bangs a few times on the hull and restores an almost wrecked tank to perfect factory-fresh condition.

lol  ::)

It´s historical and "realistic" in the sense that the tank is out of the game for a while.
While a self-repairing vehicles is still capable of driving around, shooting its guns etc. (=being active) the tanker who had to retreat to a safe spot to repair the damage is "out" (=being passive), because he has to actually leave the vehicle and work on it, yet at the same time has to make sure noone sneaks up behind him or has to watch out for planes/other vehicles.
Total realism can´t be simulated in a game, that´s right, but there are tools and mechanisms (you call them "arbitrary") that can create the illusion of "realism".
The wrench is such a tool and thus works well, if you want to simulate a vehicle being damaged and its crewman being forced into passiveness, just the way it was in "reality".
It takes a "special breed" of gamers of course, who anticipate such game mechanics (ASA framework is one of many reasons why PR is still active with a pretty big playerbase, because the Devs make such "arbitrary rules", yet players are willing to follow it for the sake of a "realistic" game experience).
If you´re your aim is the "LOLconstantaction"-direction of most shooters we see today, "arbitrary tools" such as "manual repair" will probably not work. But I hope FH2 doesn´t want to fully go that way...
« Last Edit: 15-01-2012, 14:01:18 by [WaW]hOMEr_jAy »
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Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #38 on: 15-01-2012, 14:01:14 »
I'm against all this auto repair crap. The function of the wrench atleast makes you thinking about the situation and not only to go rambo with the tank. And whats with auto repair in a KT?
Same goes for auto repair of planes. The system as it is now, works flawless and is balanced in a quiet good way. The discusion was more about, how to keep the current system with some restricitons, wich are not too heavy. But adding these auto heal/repair stuff would change the balance and gameplay much more, than just blocking the tanks and planes for limited kits.

Offline djinn

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #39 on: 15-01-2012, 15:01:17 »
let me put it different.
I dont want planes to auto repair, or they will stay airborne etc... and pilots never repair their planes in midair.

Tankers should be able to do some minor repair...like a bandaid of repair on their tanks, very slow and yes, internal. It gives the kit an advantage to be used, AND it is only functional out of combat. Tankers do fix minor damage internally, put of fires etc. So that makes sense to me.

it wont affect gameplay too much. Internal tank repair is too slow to jump from one fire fight to the next without stopping, but it does mean you dont risk bailing or outrunnig an almost blown-up tank. You can sit in quietly somewhere and it fixes itself to stable from when almost at blow-up health - OR fix a minor hit without screaming for repairs over and over again.


Offline LuckyOne

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #40 on: 15-01-2012, 15:01:10 »
Well some people just like historical accuracy... (And roleplaying the great escape back to the friendly lines after being shot down  8))

historical, you mean tank driver exits the tank and whips out magic wrench, bangs a few times on the hull and restores an almost wrecked tank to perfect factory-fresh condition.

lol  ::)

Alright we can make people return to base after every harder hit to be able to repair... Let's say if wrench can only fix half of the tank's health and to get fully healed you have to drive all the way back to the mainbase and wait for 10 minutes on the repair pad...

Sounds better?  ::)
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Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #41 on: 15-01-2012, 17:01:45 »
it wont affect gameplay too much. Internal tank repair is too slow to jump from one fire fight to the next without stopping, but it does mean you dont risk bailing or outrunnig an almost blown-up tank. You can sit in quietly somewhere and it fixes itself to stable from when almost at blow-up health - OR fix a minor hit without screaming for repairs over and over again.

Your proposal still ignores an important point the "wrench solution" covers very well:
Auto repair still doesn´t really take a player out of the game. Sure, he´s taken some damage and he probably doesn´t move that much, untill the damage is repaired, so he´s not fully active, nor fully passive.

BUT:
The self-repair process is automatic and involves no action from the player. The crewman is still able to concentrate all of its senses on his surroundings and can immediately react to potential threats. There´s nothing at stakes since his weapon system are fully functional and the tank is fully mobile. From one second to another he can register and react to a threat.
If he has to bail out and has to manually repair his damaged vehicle this involves manual action from a player and means that he has to pay attention both to his damaged vehicle AND to his surroundings. If a threat appears he can´t react immediately which leaves him exposed and vulnerable.

This creates tension and excitement for crewmen. I´ve been a tanker in WaW for some time and nothing beats the excitement of being in the hurry to repair your damaged vehicle befoer you´re being discovered by enemies. Simply retreating and waiting a bit inside your vehicle can´t match that, ever.

 
And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

Offline MaJ.P.Bouras

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #42 on: 15-01-2012, 17:01:48 »
How bout a BF1942 style emplacement in main base in which you can repair tanks and vehicles?? And wrench only repairs mines, Smines and static emplacements.

Offline djinn

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #43 on: 15-01-2012, 19:01:22 »
A tank will contain 5 people average.

The tanker kit adds to this fact. Someone is fixing the turret rotation, someone is putting out the fire. The rest of the team are still looking through slits and periscope.

I think it still represents real life. The tank is still vulnerable, it took damage and until its up and running it is weaker.

Why force the tanker to perform an action that in itself is not technically realistic, like thats the measure.

PS. LuckyOne,
thats what natty was driving at. Not that wrenches are stupid, but that they dont represent realism in themselves, so we cant judge internal repairs like some total aberration.

Offline Viktor2a5

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Re: "Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles
« Reply #44 on: 15-01-2012, 19:01:22 »
I have no clue how we got dis suggestion turned over to tanker kit, but keep on discussing...