Farewell

[GIJordncc1701d]

I think the problem with a lot of the empty servers is this: FH2 players span many time zones. Yes, we can coordinate for some big events, but for me being in the central US, hopping on a server on a Saturday night will mean playing pretty much exclusively with US players (because I doubt many people in Europe are playing in the early morning). I think what would help is organized game nights. I know, it's been done, but I think we should give it a reboot. Let's do one every week, if not twice a week. Once on a weeknight here in the US and in Europe, and then once on the weekend so we can all play together.

To address the issues of the changes, I personally like them. Yes, it does make them overall more linear, but it forces people to work together (and I think that was the aim of things like Push and Sector Push).

[Ts4EVER]

I think there is a small demographic who actually like the "whacky stuff" in FH1. For instance, Toddel once said that he hated that tanks are locked in FH2, because he liked tricking people into giving up their tank and then stealing it in FH1. Other people did stuff like jumping from planes and bazookaing tanks from parachutes. All this was removed from FH2 and imo it's  a step forward. FH2 is not an open world or creativity game like minecraft or GTA, it's an fps and a pretty serious one at that.

[Ronson]

Toddel once said that he hated that tanks are locked in FH2, because he liked tricking people into giving up their tank and then stealing it in FH1.

Ha!

1. Sneak up behind panzer.
2. Use 'Fire in the hole' voice command.
3. See panzer driver bail and run as he assumes you are an engy who has just thrown a satchel onto his rear deck.
4. Jump in panzer, run over ex-driver, victory circle, flee.

I love FH2 but I do miss those sort of hijinks.

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

1 - Battle of the Bulge map begins
2 - Noob drives KT into bazooka hailstorm
3 - Noob bails
4 - Americans steal KT, repair, win map

[dead_man1876]

my 2 cents:
Action-packed FPS require younger players (teen to twen)
More tactical FPS adress older (30+) players too but the potential player base is smaller

Some (mostly older) players have a special relation to the WW2 setting since they grew up with a lot of movies about WW2 or even had relatives, who where contemporary witnesses. These players will leave the player base one day.

Then the question is, what will attract more players to a WW2 setting then to different ones?
Being strong at these differences will make a game or mod more successfull than others. Copying new releases like BF3 and such, hoping to profit from their marketing, will get you nowhere as they'll always do it better.

What makes the WW2 setting special?
Fighting changed from the trench warfare of WW1 to more agile tactics with smaller units working together, because the small arms got more effective while still not having the high precision of today's weapons. Camping and sniping is easier with todays weapons. In WW2 you still had to go into the action. You get the feeling that you have to rely on your abilities and intuition and that tactics matter more than sheer numbers, especially on maps with fewer players.

If we get the 128 players server it depends on how we play (it always depends on that). If we use the numbers to operate more tactical (have dedicated tasks: arty, spotter, mg's for suppression, use of smoke, tanks and inf working together, close air support, defensive lines with AT and AA) or just have a WW1 style meat grinder.

Another cool thing about the WW2 setting is the great variety of theatres and landscapes. In all places fights can get intense if weapons range is limited.

And the last one I can think of atm is that most soldiers were not professionals. While games about modern warfare present professionals as being either keen on following orders and fighting or at least cool-blooded killers, the WW2 setting has a special atmosphere of pain and sadness. War is presented as a dreadful thing and most soldiers long for other things in life and hope for the war to end.

[WinstonTheRipper]

1 - Battle of the Bulge map begins
2 - Noob drives KT into bazooka hailstorm
3 - Noob bails
4 - KT blows up, Americans win map

FTFY

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

1 - Battle of the Bulge map begins
2 - Noob drives KT into bazooka hailstorm
3 - Noob bails
4 - KT blows up, Americans win map

FTFY

Eh? That isn't how it played out on FH1's Battle of the Bulge.

[WinstonTheRipper]

1 - Battle of the Bulge map begins
2 - Noob drives KT into bazooka hailstorm
3 - Noob bails
4 - KT blows up, Americans win map

FTFY

Eh? That isn't how it played out on FH1's Battle of the Bulge.

I disagree. While I only played BotB about two hundred times, it seemed to come down to whether or not the KT driver was competent. I'd only ever seen it captured a few times. Several of the popular servers actually kicked people for abandoning vehicles. An unspoken rule, so to speak.

[Nerdsturm]

The problem was more prominent on maps like Arnhem where if the Allies got their hands on the Tiger and used it well they could completely shut down the bridge. The ability to steal vehicles was still fun though, and it wasn't like it was easy, since usually people would only bail when the tank was already on fire. Plus, it's not like the cases of people stealing the Kingtiger or Tiger were all that common.

It was extremely annoying when people sneaked into main bases to steal vehicles though.

[hitm4k3r]

I am sorry but I have to agree with alot of points of Bonker. With 2.45 FH2 changed into a direction where it got more arcade like. Weapons do less damage in general and some of the maps got unnecessary changes.

The new maps aren't the big succes many of us expected. St. Vith - a IMO extremely beautyful map - leads to empty servers and gets skipped by wise admins. I sometimes have the feeling that FH2 reached it's peak with 2.4 in many terms. It offered the best maps I have seen so far in any FPS game and improvements that made it a total new experience and not just a BF2 mod. Not to forget all this content that you get with this mod.

So after one long year of waiting and high expectations some of us really got pissed off and were dissapointed with 2.45. Atleast that's the feedback from the people whom I play with. And the player count supports this idea a bit for me.

BUT - and that's a big but - FH2 is still in development and if we keep on playing the game and give feedback and motivation to the devs, I can see myself playing this mod in 2-3 years. I am very grateful for the work of the devs and everyone who made it possible for me to play this game, because I had several hundreds hours of fun. And I have the feeling that 2.5 and the eastern front can get a real blast. I know, it will be a long time, but I am still so damn excited as the first time I saw the renders of the SU152 and the KV1.
Whether the 128 players server helps the community is something I would heavily argue. Atm it kills all of the established servers.

So good bye and hope to see you back in 2.5. People come and go, but many of them find thier way back to FH. 

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

1 - Battle of the Bulge map begins
2 - Noob drives KT into bazooka hailstorm
3 - Noob bails
4 - KT blows up, Americans win map

FTFY

Eh? That isn't how it played out on FH1's Battle of the Bulge.

I disagree. While I only played BotB about two hundred times, it seemed to come down to whether or not the KT driver was competent. I'd only ever seen it captured a few times. Several of the popular servers actually kicked people for abandoning vehicles. An unspoken rule, so to speak.

To each his own, but when I was playing FH1 it was almost a cliche that at some point the Americans would get their hands on the KT, although admittedly only slight less inevitable that who ever got it would by subsequently teamkilled by the guy in the M36, who tended to be the only American who didn't know how to read the endless spam of FRIENDLY KT in the teamchat.

[kingtiger1891]

The player base of FH2 had 2 major blast, that's the release of 2.2 and 2.4. But for 2.45, I'd say it lost more old players than the new players it can attract.

Arcade is one important reason, FH2 can never attract many arcade players no matter how it change, but some old players may leave because of that. Another thing is what bonker said: some maps have too much limit and force players to attack a single direction. A good example is the change of Meuse, the ABC zone is soooo vast and there's actually no place for maneuver, thus the tank combat constantly end up with head on shooting from abc to another side of abc. Meuse was one of the greatest tanking map in 2.4 and now it becomes super boring. Cobra is okay. Falaise is just not better, the decrease of attack route make it easier to camp on some bottleneck, not only for defenders, but for attackers too.

There're good things in 2.45 like Sidi Bouzid and the new air-to-ground combat, unfortunately there's more bad/unnecessary changes.

[Alakazou]

I am sorry but I have to agree with alot of points of Bonker. With 2.45 FH2 changed into a direction where it got more arcade like.

Do you know what arcade mean ?....

[Lightning]

In the development team we do not think in terms of 'realism' and 'arcade' at all. When we make a change, we try to make it to improve Forgotten Hope in the same spirit in which we have developed it from the start.

In the last releases we have been thinking more in terms of re-playability. We want the game play in the mod to be more challenging and less frustrating, so people keep on playing even with longer periods between releases (which is an inevitability with an ever smaller development team).

One of the things we did to make it less frustrating was remove stamina. This is a feature that works fine in Battlefield 2, but in Forgotten Hope you really have far too many destroyed objects or walls or fences in the way, that you can get stuck on, which all cost you stamina. Resulting in a slow long walk to the battlefield. We did not remove stamina because we wanted to remove a tactical element or make the mod more arcade.

Other thing is the tank combat. Every single patch we have released has had a different model for the damage dealt by projectiles from tanks. It is very difficult to create a model that is consistent across the board for the wide variety of projectile that exist and it is even harder to create one that is a good reflection of how we feel tank combat should be like in the mod. In the last release we have increased our focus on re-playability. We felt that in previous releases the actual tank combat was over too quickly, because nearly all hits were either kills or simply bounced off. The result was that not only tactical retreats and repairing were practically not present, but the excitement players get from the combat was reduced to the two seconds between seeing an enemy tank and killing it. Additionally, range was pretty much not a factor in 2.4. Now it is something you have to keep in mind, as you will do a lot more damage at a short distance than far off. This is another tactical element added to the mix, all to make combat more interesting.

It's pretty frustrating to see these changes dismissed on the grounds of being 'too arcade' or 'not realistic'. For me, those are not good arguments.

[DLFReporter]

Let's sum it up.
A mod always has it harder than a commercial release as the fans are more demanding and have a certain degree of expectations.
Now the devs try to meet as many of those while also developing the mod in the direction they want it to go, which then leads to people publicly dismissing the mod and not playing, which then again is seen as proof that the mod is BS. Which then leads to devs quitting out of frustration, which in turn increases the development time and that makes people leave as well.

Damn those vicious spirals...