Bastogne 64

[BATTERIESc]

Why then have I seen mostly Allied wins on Bastogne (except when IRISHFORCE won the map for Germany)? Quite coincidentally, I have seen mostly Allied wins of Eppeldorf as well.

That is very interesting, I cannot believe it until I see it !

[Schism-RvtL]

If the map is intended to be about the whole battle, and if we want the fighting to move into Bastogne proper more often, then I would suggest that after the "front" flags fall, Allied armour stops spawning (representing the siege), then a few minutes after Mont falls, will start respawning in Bastogne to represent the relief column.

During the siege there were still US tanks in and around Bastogne. Especially tank destroyers like the Hellcat played a key role in defending the town. So removing all of them is not needed.

I've seen both teams win. And I expect that the US team will defend the key flags better once they know the map better as well.

[BATTERIESc]

Bleed on allies is so ridiculous. The first two flags are almost impossible to hold as allies because of little to no armored support and low zooka number  vs a HUGE armored force.
Then axis need 1 more flag and they have basically won, AND if they do take MONT theres no back capping allowed on the first 2 flags. Terrible map balance imo. Axis have to be extremly poor in comparison to allies to lose on this map. With even teams there no competition axis win.

Even if axis take and hold mont for like 5 minutes allies have lost because the bleed in so harsh.

[General_Henry]

Bleed on allies is so ridiculous. The first two flags are almost impossible to hold as allies because of little to no armored support and low zooka number  vs a HUGE armored force.
Then axis need 1 more flag and they have basically won, AND if they do take MONT theres no back capping allowed on the first 2 flags. Terrible map balance imo. Axis have to be extremly poor in comparison to allies to lose on this map. With even teams there no competition axis win.

Even if axis take and hold mont for like 5 minutes allies have lost because the bleed in so harsh.

first I love the map, it is very well done except no actions at Bastogne most of the time. German thrust could be stronger but less Allied Bleed.

I don't think you are supposed to hold the first two flags for the whole round - your job should be to delay enemy advance for as long as possible (bleed their tickets).

I almost never lose on this map as the Americans. Maybe I could share some tips.

1. use the AT gun in the front church flag: don't face it directly to enemy hide it in a dirty corner that couldn't be HEed or artied that easily.

2. use the church tower (not the topmost floor), enemy tanks don't dare to charge in (1s1k from above) if you are with a zook up there. Plus it is safe from artillery fire and is very difficult to HE.

3. if you want to do zooking after the front flags have fallen, get into the forest.

4. Mont is incredibly easy to defend, there are only 3 ways to get into the inner perimeter, you could easily lock one up by facing an MG there, in case of smoke just keep shooting you have enough ammo to shoot until the smoke subside. Another two could be defended with some effort, again, you have an incredible advantage of cover as the defending side. Hold onto mont and you can't lose that easily. To defeat a decent defending force at mont the Germans have to mass armour with the best infantry squads.

5. most AT guns are left unused despite they are placed in relatively dirty places (the 57mms)

6. Avoid heavy casualties by defending-to-death-under-heavy-bombardment (will lose you the map). Fall back (and then come back with force) when needed. Sometimes you must let the KT to go to the middle of the map to kill it. (else you have no chance flanking it)

[Kelmola]

The most common mistake the German team does is that after the first two flags fall, instead of attacking Mont, they attack the two other north/south flags that are essentially a sideshow (I would even say a "decoy" or "diversion"). Concentrating all available forces on Mont (apart from what is needed to defend the first two flags), and once that is capped, exploiting the breakthrough in the spirit of Blitzkrieg and zergrushing into Bastogne itself (moving the defenders from the first two flags to Mont as they just became uncaps - never mind if there's Yanks there!) is the key.

However, what you usually see is huge combined arms battles in the northern and southern woods with only a few lone backcappers trying to ninja the Mont flag. Also, even if Germany manages to (accidentally) cap Mont, people keep spawning on the first two flags for all eternity. Fortunately, there's usually plenty of equally inept American players as well, who keep attacking them instead of retaking Mont.

[Natty]

So do you feel that the intended tactics are understood by the majority of the players?

[General_Henry]

So do you feel that the intended tactics are understood by the majority of the players?

understanding is totally another story - sometimes you understand something is right but it just can't be done... you know, usually in pubbie people just love to stay alive camping/killing rather than to fight for victory.

mont is surprisingly unpopular for epic combat (those usually only happen in the first two flags) - I think people are just uncomfortable to attack something in the centre without securing the flanks. Especially for tanks - lone APC to the front usually don't worked.

I have never see any epic defense around Bastogne - there are some reasons, one being that the Americans are bleeding, another being that Germans are unlikely to rush to Bastogne with brute force - usually they are capped by sneaky infantries.

The main reason why the Germans dislike brute force attack of Bastogne is maybe because their armour thrust is really lacking - you have to drive tanks half-way across map to stage an attack facing brutal TDs like hellcats and brutal tanks like jumbos. (which means really easy to get killed)

People love to stack at the first flags - I could think as that they are excellent in terms of availability of cover compared to the other flags.

Just some thoughts - would it be better if the first two flags would be un-recap that would also provide forward tank spawns? That way the Germans don't need to waste men on defending them but just to charge forward with all they get. (which is the essence of Battle of the Bulge?) This way you could move bleed of Americans to Bastogne, in exchange, Germans should get fewer tickets (probably start with less tickets than the Americans so they would have the strong desire to push Americans to extinction).

[Kelmola]

This came up today on hslan during Ramelle (Irish was the one who said it)---

---just how epic would it be if Bastogne had 1000 or 2000 tickets in the beginning? Right now, the round is over "too soon" all too often, considering the hueg size of the map.

[IrishReloaded]

thx keloma, I use to say this often cause its true.

So what are my suggestions:
More tickets! Same ticket amount like Sidi. Map is hugh, have lots of tanks = more kills per death.

New pushcode. At the moment is just -sorry- stupid. CApping on of the first flag, then Mont, then victory --

What I would like too see:
1st Line: South and North first line Flag- After both capped, 2nd Line opens.
2nd Line: all 3 flags. After all capped Bastonge is open. When all 3 are capped, high tank reinforcements for allied to make a nice counterattack.
3rd Line: Bastonge.


Imo the best push code is still on Goodwood, compared with the tank reinforcement it makes the map really interesting.
Do allies cap both 1st line flags, and risk a german counterattack?
Do allied just cap one of the flags, cap the city and hold it?
Do allied cap 1st and 3rd line, and leave the city alone, to confuse german troops?

Bastonge could get such a extreme good map if just the ticket code, and push map is made better!
Its sad that its always over when Germans get close to Bastonge, or when Allies try to reattack.

[Slayer]

The ticket amount might be a nice idea, but the push has been tested extensively, and this was considered the best one. Of course all maps can be changed, but now the Bastogne push has something unique to it. If it'd be changed according to what you write, it will just be "white Goodwood".

[IrishReloaded]

but this way all flags would get some attention. Now they are just capped, and used as spawmpoints. Noone really set up a good defence.s

[Slayer]

but this way all flags would get some attention. Now they are just capped, and used as spawmpoints. Noone really set up a good defence.s

But that happens on every map where a team wants to attack only and forgets to defend the flags they already have. So maybe that is something to put in the /Tactics forum.

[IrishReloaded]

well I still think that you should need both first line flags to get to Mont.
Mont is the masterflag in the map, and can be capped to fast atm.

[Slayer]

well I still think that you should need both first line flags to get to Mont.
Mont is the masterflag in the map, and can be capped to fast atm.

That is not a bad idea.

[THeTA0123]

well I still think that you should need both first line flags to get to Mont.
Mont is the masterflag in the map, and can be capped to fast atm.

This would be a great and positive change in the map yes

Also a hellcat at start....the tank spawnraping is so massive in the beginning and you have very little weapons at your disposal

Bastogne had Hellcats at there disposal