Author Topic: Infantry; Squad roles  (Read 7391 times)

Offline DesertRat40-45

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Infantry; Squad roles
« on: 30-03-2009, 16:03:00 »
Hey

I was playing both PR and FH2. And i noticed that the rally point stuff in PR is really nice. But PR is modern combat and its borning, i prefer FH2 through. But i wonder if you could make same thing with rally points as in PR, where you could ask for diffrent kits like Grapplink hook, Ammo boxes, Mgs, Mordars (deployable) etc.

And second thing, If its possible make bigger squads, and role selection. For example every squad must have NCO, MG and AT weapons and somebody who carry ammuniton, and ofcourse radio man. Its feels silly that NCO can just call in arty without having any contact with Commander. If he could have radio man around that would work better, atleast for me :)

Greets
« Last Edit: 30-03-2009, 17:03:26 by Lightning »
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Offline Torenico

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Re: Suggestion Infranty
« Reply #1 on: 30-03-2009, 16:03:31 »
Kinda hard.. but i like this system.

What about if the SL has only 2 members in his Sq.. that system you said will only work whit 6 Guys in a Sq. Sadly.


konti

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #2 on: 30-03-2009, 17:03:42 »
Bigger squads isn't possible, bf2 engine-related.

Quote
Its feels silly that NCO can just call in arty without having any contact with Commander.

Use the binocs and you can call for arty even without being in a squad. If a player mans the player-controlled artillery, you'll get your bombardment. ;)

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #3 on: 30-03-2009, 18:03:46 »
All valid points desert rat, but you'll have to face the fact that you can't just copy code and or change FH2 to PRFH2.
If it were possible to have such a system without restricting the players too much (and some say that PR is too restricting) then it might happen, if not then it won't.

Rally Points have been discussed to death and I believe they won't happen any time soon in FH2.
It's just too far from what the devs are looking at gameplay vise, from what I have gathered.

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Offline DesertRat40-45

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #4 on: 30-03-2009, 20:03:42 »
"Rally Points have been discussed to death and I believe they won't happen any time soon in FH2.
It's just too far from what the devs are looking at gameplay vise, from what I have gathered."

Yes but still its only 1 thing which could be changed making squad battles better, Its not that i want Fh2 to be PR

Huh?
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Offline Kubador

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #5 on: 30-03-2009, 20:03:48 »
As I remember from that Rally points thread (RIP) the idea just doesn't apply to the fast paced gameplay of FH2. You could spawn half of a team in an instant behind enemy lines which wouldn't be coo'. We already have some problems with sneaky SLs. Good flag positioning is the key here.

Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #6 on: 30-03-2009, 20:03:40 »
I honestly miss the old FH1 system where you could only spawn at your flags.
When I see flags being spawn-bombed by a single squadleader who managed to sneak into the flag zone I think something really goes wrong. I remember from 0.7 WaW matches where a whole squads joined at one flag and advanced like it happens in real life, either on foot or with a convoy of vehicles. It was much more intense if you have 3 or 4 vehicles racing to a flag and avoiding enemy fire from the air and from the ground.
Today you only have the SL who takes a Kübelwagen, races in the flag zone and spawn-bombs the flag. It´s really pointless. And from a tournaments point of view the SL became nothing but a mobile spawn point who just waits in the grass instead of advancing with his men and leading them..
Maybe it sounds drastic or extreme, but I´m in favour of removing the mobile SL spawn aspect from the game. I simply turns into a "kill-die-spawn-kill-die-spawn"-frag fest. the aspect of moving the troops to the front line has nearly vanished...
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Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #7 on: 30-03-2009, 21:03:43 »
Yes but I see this mainly as a Tournament problem, why haven't they edited their rules to stop the abuse?
Imho it helps to keep the squad cohesion in public gaming and should therefor stay.
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Offline Kubador

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #8 on: 30-03-2009, 21:03:08 »
I honestly miss the old FH1 system where you could only spawn at your flags.
When I see flags being spawn-bombed by a single squadleader who managed to sneak into the flag zone I think something really goes wrong. I remember from 0.7 WaW matches where a whole squads joined at one flag and advanced like it happens in real life, either on foot or with a convoy of vehicles. It was much more intense if you have 3 or 4 vehicles racing to a flag and avoiding enemy fire from the air and from the ground.
Today you only have the SL who takes a Kübelwagen, races in the flag zone and spawn-bombs the flag. It´s really pointless. And from a tournaments point of view the SL became nothing but a mobile spawn point who just waits in the grass instead of advancing with his men and leading them..
Maybe it sounds drastic or extreme, but I´m in favour of removing the mobile SL spawn aspect from the game. I simply turns into a "kill-die-spawn-kill-die-spawn"-frag fest. the aspect of moving the troops to the front line has nearly vanished...

I understand this very well and in some point I agree. I miss the feeling of waves clashing in a firefight. Now it's more random. Lack of a distingued frontline when you know you're in enemy territory annoys me sometimes. But on the other hand I think that squadleaders should stay couse they are game-designated officers to whom people listen - even in a pub play.

Offline hOMEr_jAy

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #9 on: 30-03-2009, 21:03:26 »
Reporter, I don´t mainly see it as a tournament problem.
Take Invasion of Crete for example. Even on public servers people spawn on their SL once he made it to the main island and don´t use the planes anymore. In FH1 it was a great sight to see waves of paratroopers coming and coming but now have an initial wave or two, then some SLs make it to the island and soon noone uses the planes anymore which is a real shame.
Kubador, you´re right, the SL is an important person, even on pubs. It´s great to see fireteams working together but I think that the feature of a mobile spawn point degrades him virtually to a mobile "spawn machine". Most of the time FH2´s gameplay reminds me too much of vanilla BF2 with the typical "Shoot-Die-Respawn"-frag sequences...
And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

Offline Mspfc Doc DuFresne

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #10 on: 30-03-2009, 23:03:04 »
   Now here's a thought, maybe you could have a spawn rate for the SL. 2 spawns per minute? 4? Then sneaky SLs wouldn't be able to spawn bomb a flag, but you could still keep up a steady firefight. Or you could have people only spawn at SLs at predetermined waves, like one or two minute intervals, so if you fight off the first wave you could kill the SL or face the second wave.

   Most radically, you could do away with the SL as mobile spawnpoint entirely, and instead treat the squad as a spawn point, with the a) rate of spawns (spawns per minute=spm) or b) timing of waves denoted by how many people are left alive in the squad. For option A, lets say that for each living member of the squad the squad gains one spawn per minute. If the squad is knocked down to one player, then one minute later the next player will spawn, and thirty seconds later the next player will spawn, and twenty seconds later player four spawns, and fifteen seconds later player 5 spawns, and 12 seconds later the last surviving player spawns, assuming none of the players have been killed in the meantime. For option B, lets say that the timing of the spawn wave is inversely proportional to how many players are alive, with one living squadmate having a wave at 2 minute intervals, 2 squad mates at one minute intervals, 3 at 40 second, 4 at 30 second, 5 at 24 second, and 6 at 20 second intervals. At each spawn wave the entire squad may respawn, so if a team gets knocked down to one person they will be out of action for a while, while a cautious team will be able to maintain itself at nearly full strength. Each player could also act like his own spawnpoint, so if one of them manages to be sneaky the others will have to die before they can join him, one at a time, and infantry battles would be much more dynamic, with squads trying to get players in positions to flank each other or in position to escape and retreat.

   For a hypothetical option A', lets say that each player has his own spawn rate of one per minute, and if the team has four players alive, then four separate spawns are reactivated one minute after the last person spawned at that player or one minute after the player respawned. I'm not entirely sure what effect this would have differently than option A, except that you couldn't spawn two players at another player simultaneously and you would consequently restrict the team's mobility.

Just my $.02

Sincerely,

Doc DuFresne
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Offline Kurb King

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #11 on: 31-03-2009, 01:03:57 »
I would like a system where vehicles (APCs/supply trucks) or the commander dropped ammo boxes would contain pickup kits.  Heavier support weapons such as deployable MGs, mortars, or AT weapons is what I had in mind.

[130.Pz]S.Tiemann

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #12 on: 31-03-2009, 02:03:26 »
I still think rally points would improve gameplay. IMO it would be harder to spawn bomb a flag with rally points because they are easy to take out and hard to defend. Also the Squad leader needs two teamates to set one so it would make sneaking into the cap radius alot harder. Also finally the squad leader could lead his men into battle not just hide behind rocks.

Also could there be a way to code rally points so that they could not be deployed in flag radius'?

azreal

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #13 on: 31-03-2009, 02:03:55 »
I think Tiemann has a point here...and I like it!

[130.Pz]S.Tiemann

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Re: Infantry; Squad roles
« Reply #14 on: 31-03-2009, 02:03:13 »
also could it be coded so that you could only place one every minute or so (spoiler i know nothing about coding ;)) This would prevent a squad as using it as a mobile spawn point ( constantly moving it up with them so that they can keep pressure on the enemy front line.

Just my two cents