Author Topic: Map ideas for the comming east-front  (Read 3790 times)

Offline Pr0z4c

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Map ideas for the comming east-front
« on: 01-06-2011, 18:06:32 »
this Topic is made because the ''what would you like to see on the east-front'' topic has practicly no use other than people posting their favourite vehicles and weapons.

So i thought, after the post of Nissi it could be a little bit of help if WE the players give good sugestions for possible maps. This topic regards maps for the east-front in 1944.

try to make a suggestion with these lines:

- mapname
- summary of the battle
- what makes it unique, why should it be played
- how could the gameplay look like (please keep in mind: one sided slaughter is not really gameplay supporting)
- battlemaps & actual strategies used
- vehicles & weapons used
- picture of the place / houses. special buildings that make the area unique
- details like weather condition

lets see if this works  ;) and maybe the devs will get a new fresh look on possible map scenarios and gameplay
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Offline Pr0z4c

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #1 on: 02-06-2011, 09:06:08 »
for example

-Narva (1944) or Narva Bridgehead

2 February – 26 July 1944) was the campaign that stalled the Soviet Estonian Operation in the surroundings of the town of Narva for five and a half months. both sides fought for possession of the strategically important Narva Isthmus.

-what makes it unique, why should it be played
 ( I dont know, perhaps beacuse it is not that well known? In the town of narva is a Old castle at the banks of the a river on the west-side, this would mean the german forces are holding this castle. and a castle as well on the eastside (Could be a nice mix of tanks/arti, and close corner fighting in a big structure.)

-gameplay, Russian forces need to cross the river, to take flags, there should be 2 ways to cross the river with vehicles, and maybe a amphibious assault...
the town Narva itself should hold some flags aswell at the castle.


as for the map, only the small area around narva would be included.


small part of Narva with the castle on the left bank


the castle on the eastbank (Jaanilinn Castle)


Narva Castle

- battlemaps & actual strategies used
- vehicles & weapons used
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_%281944%29

As i said above i just did some basic search, but i do think this could be a nice idea for a map, but it has to be worked out, gameplay wise,vehicles/weapons ect.  that is the most important.
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Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #2 on: 02-06-2011, 09:06:23 »
If we had estonian voice commands, then Narva could be a possibility. Always remember that we are rather tied down to what we can make with 0.7 voice sets (I believe we can extend that to norwegians, dutch and chinese thought). Oh I so hope we'd get custom voices some day...

Offline Nissi

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #3 on: 02-06-2011, 09:06:07 »
Please if you have posted a map which takes place in 1944 idea in the very enlonged thread transfer it to this one. Maybe you still know where you put it in the thread. I guess no one can be asked to look through that monster thread. I posted there one but it's about the war opening so I will not include that one here.  :)

@Flippy: Or replacing Estonians with Germans?  :)

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #4 on: 02-06-2011, 09:06:11 »
Possibility, but I would rather have estonians since germans are bloody everywhere.  ;D

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #5 on: 02-06-2011, 11:06:11 »
Make it a really big castle and you've got my vote... :)


For awhile now, I've been going to suggest a map like POE2's Olesko Keep, or to a lesser extent, the BF2 SF map Iron Gator.

Basically, a map based around a large multi-level structure (a castle would be good) with a relatively small outdoor area.


What's stopped me is the historical accuracy side of things, although I don't know why...we've got Ramelle don't we?



@Flippy: She'll be right mate, just say they're Estonians cleverly disguised as Germans... ;)

Offline Thorondor123

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #6 on: 02-06-2011, 14:06:05 »
If we had estonian voice commands, then Narva could be a possibility.
Use Finnish voices and no one will notice ;D

No, seriously. Narva would make a nice map.
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Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #7 on: 02-06-2011, 14:06:39 »
 Wow Dejavu,  i proposed Narva 6 months ago in another thread;

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=13284.msg177834#msg177834

 But i agree totally.



 :-*



Offline VonMudra

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #8 on: 02-06-2011, 15:06:54 »
Quoting here my post about the soviet amphibious assualt on the Kerch peninsula:

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch%E2%80%93Eltigen_Operation

This would be a quite fun map, as you would essentially have a soviet amphibious assualt, followed by german/romanian counter attacks to clear the Russian beach heads.  The main map would either by Eltigen, with the german/romanian counter attack included, or the landings at Ganikale, which successfully staved off German and Romanian counter attacks, and led to the eventual reconquest of the entire Crimea in 1944.  Essentially, it offers an interesting difference when compared to the usual Ukraine and Belorussian tank battles, by giving the soviets amphibious assaults, as well as a gateway for the eventual inclusion of the Romanian army. 





I also found this note on the battle on axis history forum:



Quote
In September 1943 the Axis evacuated its forces in the Taman bridgehead to Crimea and started to prepare for the next Soviet assault.

In the night of 31 October/1 November Red Army troops landed south of Kerch and quickly took over village Eltigen. The bridgehead was widened the next day to about 4.5 km and had a depth of 1.5-2 km. Eltigen was in the sector of the 98th German Infantry Division. It was reinforced with a Romanian cavalry detachment from the 6th Cavalry Division: the "Mr. Horia" Detachment (3 cavalry squadrons, 1 MG platoon, 1 battery, one AT platoon). By 5 November the Axis forces managed to contain the Soviet bridgehead. They now had to eliminate it. The 10th Motorized Rosiori (cavalry) Regiment was also assigned to the German unit, for this operation. However, the assault, which was carried out on 7 November, failed.

Because the Red Army made another landing, this time NE of Kerch, the situation was becoming critical for the 98th Division, which also had to defend that sector. The German 5th Corps decided to move the whole Division to face the new threat. The Eltigen bridgehead was going to be taken over by the Romanian 6th Cavalry Division, which was deployed there from 14 November. Initially its mission was to defend against any possible Soviet attacks, but the German command later requested that the bridgehead be eliminated.

After the return of brig. gen. Corneliu Teodorini, the division's CO, the date for the assault was set for 4 December. The division was going to be reinforced with two battalions from the 3rd Mountain Division, one German StuG battalion, 12 German artillery batteries and will also benefit from the support of the Romanian 3rd Dive Bomber Group.

The attack began at 5:00 after a five minute artillery barrage. Only the right wing of the Romanian forces managed to advance. On the left the Soviets put up a heavy resistance, especially near the state farm and on hill 56.7, where they had a pillbox.

The next day, the division continued its attack, on three directions. The main push was made from west to east, from the state farm towards the lighthouse south of Eltigen. From the positions gained the previous day, two attacks were going to be launched: one towards west, in the rear of Soviet positions, and the other from south to north, aiming to clear the southern part of the bridgehead.

The 2nd Squadron/10th Motorized Rosiori Regiment managed to take the pillboxes north of hill 56.7. Thus gen. Teodorini ordered the all-out assault to begin. The forces were split into two groups:

1. Group "Col. Pasa": 9th Rosiori Regiment, 4th Squadron/5th Calarasi Regiment, 1st and 3rd Squadron/10th Motorized Rosiori Regiment, 14th MG Battalion and one German StuG battery. Its mission was to attack towards the lighthouse and then take the heights north of it.

2. Group "Lt. Col. Portasescu": 10th Motorized Rosiori Regiment (without the 1st and 3rd Squadron), 5th and 10th Mountain Battalion, two German StuG batteries. Its mission was to take the state farm and then advance towards the lighthouse.

By nightfall (at 15:30) the state farm had been taken, but the Soviet forces at the lighthouse were still holding out.

The division was reorganized into three groups for the battle on 6 December:

1. Group "Col. Pasa": 9th Rosiori Regiment, 4th Squadron/5th Calarasi Regiment and one German StuG battery. Its mission was to assault the hill 37.4

2. Group "Lt. Col. Portasescu": 10th Motorized Rosiori Regiment and one German StuG battery. Its mission was to advance occupy the lighthouse and advance towards the heights east of hill 37.4

3. Group "Lt. Col. Borislavski": 5th and 10th Mountain Battalion. Its mission was to take Eltigen, by attacking on the seaside.

The 14th MG Battalion was going to provide support for all three groups.

The vanatori de munte managed to enter Eltigen after heavy fighting. By 14:00 the lighthouse was also taken by lt. col. Portasescu, who started to advance towards the heights north of it. During the night, a group of Soviet troops managed to penetrate through the Romanian lines (14th MG Battalion) and flee towards north.

On 7 December, at 5:30 gen. teodorini ordered the final assault to begin. The 14th MG Battalion took the hill 37.4 along with may POWs, lt. col. Portasescu continued his advance, while col. Pasa took the heightd north of Eltigen. At 7:00 all objectives had been taken and the remaining Soviet forces were surrendering. At 7:15, gen. Teodorini reported to the German 5th Corps that "the Eltigen bridgehead was no more".

The 6th Cavalry Division had suffered 381 casualties (68 KIA and 313 WIA) and the 3rd Mountain Division (the 5th and 10th Battalions) suffered 484 casualties. 2,294 POWs were taken, along with 35 artillery pieces, 21 MGs, 35 mortars, 39 LMGs. The number of dead and wounded was also high.

The Soviet forces that managed to escape took refuge on the Mithridate Hill, south of Kerch. The Romanian troops eliminated this last stronghold on 11 December and captured 820 POWs, one AT gun, 60 MGs, 17 AT-rifles, 720 SMGs. About 1,100 Soviet soldiers were killed.

Also 76 tanks were destroyed and the Luftwaffe and the AAA claimed 251 VVS aircraft.

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #9 on: 02-06-2011, 18:06:44 »
Quoting myself:
As for map ideas, I haven't played FH1 so feel free to ridicule me:

Dnieper airborne operation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Dnieper_Offensive#Dnieper_airborne_operation
Dnieper assault crossing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Dnieper_Offensive#Assault-crossing_the_Dnieper
These are probably self-explanatory, but would bring variety to the cityfights and open-terrain tank battles one would usually expect from the Eastern Front.

---

Besides Pavlov's House, I would like to see more of Stalingrad in the form of Dzerzhinsky Tractor Factory. You could have unpainted T-34's spawn there as long until the Germans manage to capture/destroy it (whether an unrecappable flag or destroyable objective suits better is a matter of taste). Also, much of the battle should be fought as much in the factory as outside it.

---

Since Der Untergang aka Battle of Reichstag is a given, I won't mention it.... oops. Oh, all right. Make it pushmode so that the last flag the Soviets can capture is the Reichstag flag and it is unrecappable. Also, German spawnzones should be outside the flagzone to make it more challenging to protect the Reichstag.
Boring day at work, so I hereby represent the Battle of Velikiye Luki for FH2. Bastardized map provided by Wikipedia:


EDIT: Imageshack refuses to show the image and I don't have it saved on my home comp - hopefully I have a copy on my work comp :( Might have to redo this :(

The scenario would represent Operation Totila, the final relief attempt, fought from 4.1.1943 until 16.1.1943.

In the beginning, the Germans hold the two cappable city flags (infantry spawn only) and the uncappable main base (tank and motorized infantry). The two "relief corridor" flags are set to neutral, and are recappable. The Soviets have four uncappable mixed-arms bases around the edges of the map. The Germans have the bleed as long until they cap the corridor flags, while simultaneously holding the city flags, at which point the Soviets will start to bleed. If the Soviets cap at least one of the city flags or recap one of the corridor flags, the bleed returns on the German side.

The river running through the city can only be crossed at bridges (set to OOB for infantry and too deep for tanks). No air support for either side, assume bad weather and snowing. Limited arty for the Soviets.

One interesting possibility would be to make the corridor flags unrecappable by the Soviets, so if the Germans manage to cap them, the Soviets must then assault the city in order to get rid of the bleed.
Prokhorovka I would handle with a twist: the battlefield is neatly divided into three by the river Psel and the rail line. Only by capping a bridge and a crossing in the north will the Germans be able to move reinforcements between the battlezones (other than spawning on different flag). The bleed is on until they can capture Prokhorovka proper.
Again, too much free time - my suggestion for Prokhorovka scenario as an image. Three uncaps each side, five cappable flags, bleed. River and railroad can only be crossed (by vehicles, at least!) at the bridge & crossing/tunnel. Maybe have armour only spawn at uncaps?

However, I would be much happier to see early Winter war... I remember Kelmola came up with a few nice ideas about the battles about a year ago.
Thank Flippy who was the original inspiration ;) Here's the original post (just remember to replace all references to L-39 with Boys, since only two L-39's made it to the front during Winter War):
Quote from: Kelmola
Quote from: Flippy Warbear
Nothing too out of ordinary you could expect from such war. But first of all the "basic" map idea would be set into the scenes of Taipale-Terenttilä region (having the russians cross the river and open fields with human waves) and you could all relate to your favorite Winter War movie. Basic finns sitting in trenches and russians throwing everything they have against them. Simple idea, difficult to get the russians running headlessly towards certain doom. Oh well, that happened in FinnWars too, I guess we could have it in FH2 aswell.
This.

Ideas: have the Soviet initial uncap spawn be in OOB area, with a "time to punish" timer set so that one has just enough time to run away from it towards the Finnish trenches - once they are out of OOB, they are out in the open (on the icy river or at least the opposite riverbank) so they pretty much have to run towards Finnish positions in order to survive. Having a few "dummy spawns" in shell craters on the Finnish riverbank would give more incentive to charge forth -- however, the same craters would also be OOB, preventing taking shelter in those. Give the Soviets 3+ arty pieces but only a couple of T-26's and OT-130/133's - if at all. The Finns should have at least 1-2 artillery pieces as well, but would mostly rely on MGs (and maybe L-39's or AT guns, if Soviets have tanks) for support.

Quote from: Flippy Warbear
Second idea is to have the famous battle of Raate Road with a twist. Russians are stuck in the middle of the thick forests on a very narrow road that twists and turns like a snake. Finns can maneuver within the forest and attack the russians from any direction.  Whats the objective? Yes, theres an objective! Finns would have to destroy specific types of tanks in order to win. Imagine for example a T-26 which is either bogged down into snow, it has frozen over  or its just stuck in the middle of other junk along the road... now, the turret is still in working conditions and it can still defend itself, but it cant run away from finnish infantry getting too close. So the russians have to protect these tanks, because if the finns manage to destroy them, then the finns will win. On other side of the map is another russian division who has working tanks and they try to race through the forest on that very same narrow road in order to provide much required defense against the white bandits who lurk in the snowy forest. Road would basically have several of these objective designed tanks sitting apart from each other so the russians have to divide the defense along the whole stretch.
Good idea, but *cough*Hyacinth 32*cough*. Won't work at all if the Finns have access to L-39's Grin Could work if the players really put an effort to prevent "suicide bombers" getting within Molotov coktail distance (one has to remember that this being a game, players WILL do stunts even Finns would not do IRL). Also, to keep the relief force on the road, most of the surrounding terrain should be OOB for the Soviets and/or so filled with obstacles (rocks, trees, tree stumps) that tanks & trucks simply couldn't advance off-road (but that wouldn't deter the infantry, where OOB would come in handy).
Frak Alpenfestung. I demand Battle of Kummersdorf to be made immediatly!
« Last Edit: 02-06-2011, 18:06:33 by Kelmola »

Offline Pr0z4c

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #10 on: 03-06-2011, 10:06:38 »
Ah nice too see some map ideas being posted here  ;D keep em comming :P
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Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Offline Kelmola

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #12 on: 22-09-2011, 17:09:01 »
Quoting myself:
As for map ideas, I haven't played FH1 so feel free to ridicule me:

Dnieper airborne operation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Dnieper_Offensive#Dnieper_airborne_operation
Dnieper assault crossing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Dnieper_Offensive#Assault-crossing_the_Dnieper
These are probably self-explanatory, but would bring variety to the cityfights and open-terrain tank battles one would usually expect from the Eastern Front.
ANOTHER THREAD NECRO. Too much time, so here's a map idea to be abandoned that combines the airborne landing and assault crossing! The area is some 100km southeast of Kiev along the Dniepr, just north of Kanev. Here's a general view of the area.

And here is a slightly more zoomed-in view (click for full-resolution version) with flags, will require slight scaling to fit in even 2x2 km. Pretty self-explanatory really.

"Airborne" flag starts neutral (being the designated dropzone for VDV), should be far enough from German flags that troops dropped from Li-2's (reskinned C-47's could be enough for placeholders) have a reasonable chance to cap it. Also, if Germans manage to recapture it, they cannot spawn on it (unlike Soviets, when they control it).

The alternative way for Soviets to cross the river is to use landing boats spawning near their main.

The German armour only spawns in Tulinzy and Balyka/Ulyanik flags. Frontline flags are all infantry (though the Grischenzy uncap in SE could have 251's and mobile flak). On the other hand, the Soviets will have to cap one of the three beach flags proper to be able to spawn any vehicles of their own (besides landing boats). Would suggest some PDH-style "invisible" flags that enable infantry spawning on the western bank after a while though (besides the paratrooper flag).

The Soviets bleed until they cap at least three "proper" flags. If they cap all four, then the Germans will bleed.

The beach should be well fortified, but the Soviets should have plenty of artillery including commander arty to suppress the defenses.

Air war should be fierce, something like 1xBf109F/G, 1xFW190A with bombs, 1xJu87G opposed by 2xP-39, 1xIL-2M with bombs, 1xIL-2M3 (the 37mm variant) with rockets (plus ~2 Li-2's for paradrops).

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #13 on: 22-09-2011, 17:09:32 »
I like it...I like it a lot....

Offline McCloskey

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Re: Map ideas for the comming east-front
« Reply #14 on: 22-09-2011, 19:09:48 »
Yeah, sounds like one hell of a battle :)