Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 12:09:15

Title: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 12:09:15
(I couldn't find a similar suggestion, delete the topic if this has already been discussed.)

Two things that I find quite annoying when playing as infantry are the hit-indicator and kill messages.
With those on, no need to check if someone escaped the tank you destroyed with your Faust/PIAT/whatever, no need to check if your grenade killed that squad in the building, no need to check if your MG fire did hit that guy hiding under some static:

The game tells you wheter you killed someone or not.
It even tells you what enemy tanks are fighting, just look at the vehicles used in the kills shown at the top of the screen. Even if that StuG ambushed you without revealing its position, you know it's here.
No need to wonder whether it was a hidden Faust or a static gun, you'll know what killed you no matter what.

The hit indicator is the worse: it pretty much acts as a small radar; just throw grenades around a flag, if the hit-indicator appears on the screen, you KNOW some enemy is here, despite them hiding rather well.

I'm not asking about removing the hit indicator for tanks: we need it to know if a shot penetrated, something that could be confirmed by the tank sommander IRL but can't be done in the game (due to some limitations).

Of course, removing the killcount (that was suggested before right?) would work well with these changes, though it is not necessary (at least you'd have to check it to see if you killed someone, and it wouldn't affect the hit-indicator change which is, IMO, very much needed).

So, here's my suggestion:
Removing the hit-indicator (infantry only if possible for this) and kill messages (both the "you killed xxx" ones, and the ones on the top-right corner showing everyone's kills and the weapon/vehicle used), to make the game more immersive and make a number of realistic tactics valid in the game.


EDIT: For those too lazy to read the whole thread, I gave up on removing the kill messages completely, but not removing at least those on the top-left corner of the screen.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 26-09-2010, 12:09:22
Cant you just play with immersive mode on?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 12:09:32
Cant you just play with immersive mode on?

Didn't you read about how all this affects gameplay for everyone?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 12:09:45
Is it getting hot in here, or is it just me?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Josh094 on 26-09-2010, 12:09:39
What is this immersive mode? :o
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Mayhemic.MAD on 26-09-2010, 12:09:44
The hit indicator can already be disable server side. One of the game nights was played without hit indicators and i actually liked it. Tank fights got more intense and longer cause you didnt know for sure if you had hit. Same for infantry long range duels. If the enemy is already prone and you shoot at him it´s nerve shattering when you are not sure if you killed him and others already shoot at you as well.  8)

I would also favor the removing of kill messages for the reasons you described.
Remember the old days in BF42 and BF2 when everyone used to scan hedgerows and bushes with the crosshair to reveal the enemy name tags ? FH removed this and sure people feel lost at first and some complain but it sure leads to a more immersive gameplay.
From this point of view, removing the kill messages would bring even more "realistic" behaviour of players. And you would still be able to check who of your teammates died by checking you teams positions on the minimap, so it´s not as hard as in red orchestra.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 13:09:22
Yer, but for basic play, its unsatisfactory to not get a kill message. Pr singleplayer is a good example: unsatisfying

I think the devs should reuse the toolkit, add the option for adding and removing immersion mode

But it should remain optional.

Totally doing away with it is un-forgotten hope. Its always a balance between realism and fun. And that works here
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: THeTA0123 on 26-09-2010, 13:09:16
Kill messages removed? No thanks

Hit indicators removed? Plausible
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 13:09:30
What is this immersive mode? :o

He probably means removing the HUD client side.

Yer, but for basic play, its unsatisfactory to not get a kill message.


I find more satisfactory to find my enemy's body laying dead behind a window than to see a message telling me I killed him.


But it should remain optional.


That would defeat the point of my suggestion. For it to affect gameplay, it needs to be server side.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: THeTA0123 on 26-09-2010, 13:09:30
you will find it more satisfactory, but the grand majority wont. Because it is something FH2 went with for 6 releases
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 26-09-2010, 13:09:37
This has been posted like 3 times before and always ended in a flamefest PR vs FH. But anyhow...

I am all FOR removing the hit indicator, but NOT for removing the kill message!

Why?

Here is my answer: I would go with removing the hit indicator for the reasons given above, but I am all against removing the kill message.

It ruins the fun. Plain and simple. Yes it might be more immersive and bring up some tactical advantages but the main thing that gives me a reason to play FH2 is to defeat friends and people from the community that I know. Shooting someone and not knowing who you took down just ruins it and makes the game to be an anonymous shooter. If I wanted that I could just play a single player FPS.

Now those this mean that everything has to stay as it is? No. It has been discussed to perhaps delay the message a few seconds, but till this is possible, if ever, I don't want to see anything done to the killmessage.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 13:09:39
and the winner of "least thought-through suggestion of the year" (known as LTTSOTY) goes to.............  ;D

just no. killmessages and hit indicators stay.  8)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 13:09:00
you will find it more satisfactory, but the grand majority wont. Because it is something FH2 went with for 6 releases

Fine then, but how about it giving away the presence of vehicles to the enemy team?
When, after waiting 5mn for a tank to run into the ambush you set up with your Marder I, a kill message gives away your presence (that of an enemy tank destroyer) to the other team, defeating the point of ambushing the enemy and firing from an unexpected angle to avoid detection after your shot?

and the winner of "least thought-through suggestion of the year" (known as LTTSOTY) goes to.............  ;D

just no. killmessages and hit indicators stay.  8)

Excuse me, but I have exposed every gameplay change resulting from this suggestion in the first post.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 13:09:54
The game would suck without hitindicator + killmessage, because the servers would be empty.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 13:09:33
The game would suck without hitindicator + killmessage, because the servers would be empty.

Are you implying that most FH2 players only care about score and kills?
I seriously hope not.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 13:09:07
Bastardly n annoying, but Natty has a point.

The FH Fans arent made of the same stuff as PR fans.

Vicious is working a Fh reality mod. You might want to follow that story. Get in touch with him maybe.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 13:09:27

Vicious is working a Fh reality mod. You might want to follow that story. Get in touch with him maybe.

Good to know, but I am not necessarily asking for Forgotten Hope to be a WWII PR, it's just that the whole kill-message thing invalidates a number of good strategies, and that breaks the fun for me.

Since part of the problem also comes from the limited (in numbers) fan base, would an increase in players make this suggestion more likely to be included in the game?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Kelmola on 26-09-2010, 13:09:14
The kill-message thing allows for personal vendettas and phobias to develop. While it's unrealistic and might break the immersion for some, I like it the way it is. However, the hit indicator I could live without.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: [A9]Bard on 26-09-2010, 13:09:05
The game would suck without hitindicator + killmessage, because the servers would be empty.

Are you implying that most FH2 players only care about score and kills?
I seriously hope not.
It´s not that, I play on public servers bcuz it´s fun to "kill" players from FH2 community and others.. If I don´t get the satisfaction of knowing who I kill it would be like playing singleplayer... no point what so ever.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 26-09-2010, 13:09:53
Are you implying that most FH2 players only care about score and kills?
I seriously hope not.

No they care about having fun with friends!

To come to your example: You kill an enemy tank with a Marder from an ambush.
His team sees the kill message pop up like for 5 seconds. That time does neither give them your location, nor is it a surprise to anyone who knows the map that you have a Marder.

Now I grant you that the type of weapon with which you killed an enemy could be removed, but one could argue here as well, that people gain fun out of having kill-messages like Reporter [Shovels] Natty. +bg+
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 13:09:24
Exactly. Thats why we have immersive hud. Unless you feel the need to subject the rest of this community to this. Yer, its a trick question
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 14:09:33

To come to your example: You kill an enemy tank with a Marder from an ambush.
His team sees the kill message pop up like for 5 seconds. That time does neither give them your location, nor is it a surprise to anyone who knows the map that you have a Marder.


It does give away the general location (they see where their last tank disappeared on their map along with the message), but more importantly: the enemy now knows how to counter you. They knwo what to expect there.
Without the message, they wouldn't know whether it was a lone soldier with a Faust (not a threat anymore), a Panther flanking them (and they'd answer with their best armor) or a Marder (and they'd send AT infantry to destroy it, or a plane to strafe the driver from his open-topped vehicle.

Not knowing what destroyed that last tank means that the enemy can't know for sure what to expect when going through the area.

Exactly. Thats why we have immersive hud. Unless you feel the need to subject the rest of this community to this. Yer, its a trick question

I don't care about words on my screen. I didn't want this to make the HUD more immersive.
I wanted this to change some of the gameplay.
For this, it would need to affect everyone. I didn't suggest this for the cosmetic effect, noly for the gameplay one.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 26-09-2010, 14:09:11
You didn't even bother to read my suggestion.  :o
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: sn00x on 26-09-2010, 14:09:52
I like reporters suggestion, though removing the names of all kinds of vehicles and weapons, ecept shovels, knifes, fork.. etc
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 14:09:15
You didn't even bother to read my suggestion.  :o

I did, and it might be a good compromise.

I was just replying to your argument of how it wasn't a surprise to know a Marder is here: it is considering how many other things could have killed that tank.

And if you find that killing a well known person with a shovel is fun, I'm not against letting some weapons be shown in kill messages (fork, shovels...) like Sn00x suggested :
ecept shovels, knifes, fork.. etc

If it is possible of course.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 26-09-2010, 14:09:47
Are you implying that most FH2 players only care about score and kills?
I seriously hope not.

Hell yes! Its awesome to see your kill record with Tiger. Its so satisfying to kill tiny helpless Shermans in Normandy that are OP in Africa.

I play FH2 because I like to get kills with my K98k, if i just keep dying all the time and not killing anyone or destroying anything and not getting any score it really starts to get boring. Also its really nice when you get more score when killing a tank, score does matter.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 26-09-2010, 14:09:21
I did, and it might be a good compromise.
It was just replying to your argument of how it wasn't a surprise to know a Marder is here: it is considering how many other things could have killed that tank.

Thanks, finally something to argue with.

I like reporters suggestion, though removing the names of all kinds of vehicles and weapons, ecept shovels, knifes, fork.. etc

See we could lobby this if more people were for it. :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 14:09:41
It will never happen, killmessages with weapon-type and hit indicator will stay. you can make long and exhausting lists with arguments if you wish, but in the end it will change nothing, because we (the FH2 team) don't wish to see empty servers for our mod.

And even if the servers wouldnt be empty, we still want the messages, because it is more fun to have them in, simple as that.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 14:09:09
but in the end it will change nothing, because we (the FH2 team) don't wish to see empty servers for our mod.


How would removing which weapons were used in kills make the servers empty?

And even if the servers wouldnt be empty, we still want the messages, because it is more fun to have them in, simple as that.

If you want the "funny" weapons (like mentionned before) in, fine, but how is seeing -xxx [M10] xxx- "fun"?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 14:09:58
How would removing which weapons were used in kills make the servers empty?
[/quote]

Do you think it is about that one thing alone?... There is more to making a mod and maintaining a playerbase than to look at singular things and make an easy question like that. There are literary thousands of discussions about features, assets, tweaks, setting etc in a game, and we have them daily within the dev- and test team.
. If we didnt want such a crucial core-feature as hit indicators or kill messages, do you really think we wouldnt have implemented that from start?.... I can't write an essay about how games are designed here, so instead I use the simpler and more straight (bit perhaps a bit rude) wording: it stays, and we have hundreds of hours of thinking, planning, designing and experience to back the reasons up. Honestly.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 14:09:22
The bottom line is, they are fun. That goes with FH2 policy. With no counter from another dev, because Natty says so

Immersive HUD and servers using this, maybe a couple days a week.

Then, there is the extreme: vicious mod
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 14:09:08

Do you think it is about that one thing alone?... There is more to making a mod and maintaining a playerbase than to look at singular things and make an easy question like that. There are literary thousands of discussions about features, assets, tweaks, setting etc in a game, and we have them daily within the dev- and test team.
. If we didnt want such a crucial core-feature as hit indicators or kill messages, do you really think we wouldnt have implemented that from start?.... I can't write an essay about how games are designed here, so instead I use the simpler and more straight (bit perhaps a bit rude) wording: it stays, and we have hundreds of hours of thinking, planning, designing and experience to back the reasons up. Honestly.

If you say so.
I suspect it has to do with avoiding frustrating people because a well hidden TD would be "too" effective?
Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 14:09:11
The bottom line is, they are fun. That goes with FH2 policy. With no counter from another dev, because Natty says so

Im sure we have devs that wants it gone. we dont agree on everything, but personal preferences are irrelevant when you have a team of 20+ devs and 50+ testers. removing hitindicators and killmessages three years after release? makes me lol. :-\

If you say so.
I suspect it has to do with avoiding frustrating people because a well hidden TD would be "too" effective?
Stuff like that.

oh no no.. not at all.. it is because I wanna see who I killed. and I want to know what is going on on the battlefield. if the tank that just killed me got fragged by a zook, I wanna know that, and who in my team did it. This is Battlefield awareness, one of the core fun things in playing.
Explain to me where the fun is for me, shooting a guy and not knowing A) who it is and B) if I hit him. How is that fun? I might as well play with bots, then right? In SP games the enemies have no names. MP games are as you can read in its name MultiPlayer, a game Vs other players.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 14:09:55

oh no no.. not at all.. it is because I wanna see who I killed. and I want to know what is going on on the battlefield. if the tank that just killed me got fragged by a zook, I wanna know that, and who in my team did it. This is Battlefield awareness, one of the core fun things in playing.
Explain to me where the fun is for me, shooting a guy and not knowing A) who it is and B) if I hit him. How is that fun?

You can see who killed you and who got killed without seeing what they used, leaving only the names but not the vehicle/weapons on the kill list (as suggested by Reporter).

And about the fun of shooting someone:
I shoot someone to prevent him from achiveing his own objective: I shoot AT infantry to protect our tanks. I shoot light tanks and recon planes to blind the enemy, leaving them without scouts. I nade MG gunners so that my squad can move forward.
I don't care who it is, it is the enemy, and I want to win, thus I kill him as needed to protect our assets and open the way to flags.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Butcher on 26-09-2010, 14:09:41
I think the biggest fun in FH2 is to get some "personal duels": e.g: you have seen that player X has killed you several times and you are keen to get your revenge. - creates some intense battles
Also the kill messages are generally a good oversight of the battlefield, you see there is a lot of action around the maps - this keeps you informed and you also dont get bored if you have to run long distances (you can read whats going on).
Still there was a situation today where a mate got shot by a pak40 (farm) on operation cobra - of course i knew immediately where the target was and could return fire. - thats of course a bit broken

All in all I think taking the kill messages away would kill a bit of the fun of FH2.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 14:09:52
I don't care who it is, it is the enemy, and I want to win, thus I kill him as needed to protect our assets and open the way to flags.

sounds not like you get anything out from playing with other humans then.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 14:09:36
I think the biggest fun in FH2 is to get some "personal duels": e.g: you have seen that player X has killed you several times and you are keen to get your revenge. - creates some intense battles

So you care more about your personnal vendetta than being useful to your team?
I've seen people drive Tigers all the way to the enemy just to kill that one Achilles, get killed moments later from a PIAT rush, leaving the Germans without a precious Tiger when they needed it to break through the center part of Totalize.
How's that intense for the rest of the team?


sounds not like you get anything out from playing with other humans then.

What?
Humans are the finest opponents to fight and play with in a game.
I care about who I play with, my squad members and team mates, and I care about the enemy being human, but who exactly the guy I just shot is, I don't.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Butcher on 26-09-2010, 14:09:54
I think the biggest fun in FH2 is to get some "personal duels": e.g: you have seen that player X has killed you several times and you are keen to get your revenge. - creates some intense battles

So you care more about your personnal vendetta than being useful to your team?
I've seen people drive Tigers all the way to the enemy just to kill that one Achilles, get killed moments later from a PIAT rush, leaving the team without a precious Tiger when we needed it to break through the center part of Totalize.


sounds not like you get anything out from playing with other humans then.

What?
Humans are the finest opponents to fight and play with in a game.
I care about who I play with, my squad members and team mates, and I care about the enemy being human, but who exactly the guy I just shot is, I don't. I will if he joins my team next round of course.

Well i still think its more fun with the kill-messages. another part thats cool a bout fh2 is that there is a "core-community" that sticks to the mod - so you know the people and you meet them often - its just fun if you get these kind of duels.
And for the tige example: that can of course happen, but you will be never safe of people who want to use stuff to push their stats - so you would need to get rid of the whole point-list (TAB) - and that would suck.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 15:09:41

Well i still think its more fun with the kill-messages.

As said, since everyone wants them, better leave them in, but at least don't show what was used for the kills.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: sn00x on 26-09-2010, 15:09:02
such small things could allways be testet server side for a week or two and see if people like it or not, Before saying "every one will hate it and empty the servers!"
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Gezoes on 26-09-2010, 15:09:02
No.


And why would my team not benefit from a dedicated attempt at taking out that sniper/tank/etc wich is ripping us to pieces? You presume one would misuse important assets for that, I just need a Faust/explosives and a gun. On Mareth I mined a lot of tanks, wich are feeling oh so safe halfway across the map.

"No way there is an enemy here, I feel so safe, haha, blam, ratatatatatatata!"
"FIRE IN THE HOLE!"
"WTF!!>>??"
"Boom!"

I'd say that benefits the team  8)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 15:09:02
No.

You presume one would misuse important assets for that, I just need a Faust/explosives and a gun. On Mareth I mined a lot of tanks, wich are feeling oh so safe halfway across the map.


I don't presume, I see that every day.
People rushing with Fireflies and things like that.

You said you could achive such feats without wasting assets; good.
But not everyone can do that, and most simply take the biggest thing available to carry out their revenge.

And how would removing only the weapons/vehicles used from the kill list (and leaving the names) affect your ability to carry out said revenge?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 15:09:20
You're in a tank.
you blow up.
Someone killed you.

You're telling me the game would be more fun if you had absolutely no idea who killed you and with what weapon? Give me a break.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: phillip on 26-09-2010, 15:09:26
Stop believing that you can have the element of surprise for more than 15 seconds in a game.

That's half the problem with public play.  You sneak into a flagzone undetected and one idiot decides to shoot someone sitting on a flag/nebel/mortar before the flag is grey because it is an easy kill.  In real life , nobody knows you are there.  In the game the entire team likely does now.  There is no lasting surprise attack.  People die and come back to life to hunt you down.  Kill messages or not.  You can't have ambush spots that work for more than 1 or 2 kills.  In rare instances you can find a spot where you can mow down the enemy, but they can't find a good way to flank you because of the layout of statics.

Kill messages help the social nature of the game.  Make it so that you care and want to vanquish your enemies.  If you own/get owned by someone, you can start a dialog.  You feel connected to that player.  Connections build community.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 15:09:38
Well, not ALL things need testing

There are basic principles of game theory that are considered.

Feedback: a gamer needs a valid response to his action. Thats why the hit-detection is there. Usually, more than one form of feedback. Why we also have kill messages

Arguably, you could do without one, but according to game theory, expect frustration and constant uncertainty aka, flame-quit

I'd say a robust UI in the form of a custom FH2 Menu or @ least, the external toolkit with various degrees of immersive HUD from simply no-hit-detection, dash bar etc, to no crosshair etc.

And then, a server employing that say once or twice a week, with option of taking it on more times, depending polls etc.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 15:09:03
You're in a tank.
you blow up.
Someone killed you.

You're telling me the game would be more fun if you had absolutely no idea who killed you and with what weapon? Give me a break.

Yes. It means a good opponent killed me without me knowing from where came the shot.
Thus I will be on my guard next time.

Stop believing that you can have the element of surprise for more than 15 seconds in a game.

People die and come back to life to hunt you down.  Kill messages or not.  You can't have ambush spots that work for more than 1 or 2 kills.  In rare instances you can find a spot where you can mow down the enemy, but they can't find a good way to flank you because of the layout of statics.


You can keep the element of surprise.
Say you ambush three Shermans, and kill the middle one.
The shot came from the side, so none of them saw it coming.
Thus, they don't know what hit them, at what range and from where.
It could've been a lone soldier with a Faust hiding in a bush on the side of the road.
But the message will tell them that it is a StuG, they'll know it came from, let's say, the right because there's no line of fire on the left, and they'll react accordingly.
When they shouldn't.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 15:09:17
Phillip nailed it^ that is what I tried to say!  8)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 15:09:14
My point is simple logical argument dont justify a change, esp. When they go against established team policy and esp. universal Game theory.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 26-09-2010, 15:09:34
When they shouldn't.

"shouldn't"?

Let me ask you: if you just go BOOM and die and have no idea what killed you and who. How do you plan your moves for your next spawn? Where to spawn, with what kit and what vehicle you plan on taking?

in effect: the entire purpose of Battlefield  :-\
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 16:09:28
When they shouldn't.

"shouldn't"?

Let me ask you: if you just go BOOM and die and have no idea what killed you and who. How do you plan your moves for your next spawn? Where to spawn, with what kit and what vehicle you plan on taking?

in effect: the entire purpose of Battlefield  :-\

That's why you play in groups, so that there's always one guy with the adequate weapon or driving the right vehicle.
Also, if you got killed and couldn't see who killed you, you deserve every death that might follow.
And your enemy deserves every kill he gets.
With people looking in every direction, you can always see the shell coming.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Slayer on 26-09-2010, 16:09:12
That's why you play in groups, so that there's always one guy with the adequate weapon or driving the right vehicle.
Also, if you got killed and couldn't see who killed you, you deserve every death that might follow.
And your enemy deserves every kill he gets.
With people looking in every direction, you can always see the shell coming.
No, you play in groups because it is more effective and more fun. Not because of some sort of role playing.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 16:09:32
No, you play in groups because it is more effective and more fun. Not because of some sort of role playing.

Exactly, because it is more effective, as I said in my post. I never said anything about roleplaying.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: phillip on 26-09-2010, 16:09:21
Quote
You can keep the element of surprise.
Say you ambush three Shermans, and kill the middle one.
The shot came from the side, so none of them saw it coming.
Thus, they don't know what hit them, at what range and from where.
It could've been a lone soldier with a Faust hiding in a bush on the side of the road.
But the message will tell them that it is a StuG, they'll know it came from, let's say, the right because there's no line of fire on the left, and they'll react accordingly.
When they shouldn't.


More likely..

You shoot one in the side.
"Guys something shot me, I think it came from the right" Why because the still alive player is sure it wasn't in front of him and a host of players on his team is in the area to his left.
One tank moves into the same spot scanning right and the second tank flanks the area to the right.

People know where you are because they are still breathing, not because you are uber at ambushing.  If you get 3 tanks in a row at the same spot, it isn't because you are uber.  It is because the other idiots are not communicating.


PLUS
Ambushing doesn't really increase the fun factor of the game for anyone other than yourself.  You are like the irritating sniper that sits in a bush a picks off people so that he can boast about his 12-0 KDR.  Go cap a flag.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 16:09:32

"Guys something shot me, I think it came from the right" Why because the still alive player is sure it wasn't in front of him and a host of players on his team is in the area to his left.
One tank moves into the same spot scanning right and the second tank flanks the area to the right.


That's exactly the kind of behaviour I promote, scanning your surroundings.
But most people don't need to do that thanks to the kill messages.


PLUS
so that he can boast about his 12-0 KDR.  Go cap a flag.

I ambush tanks to prevent them from reaching the frontlines.
Infantry and tanks cap, tank hunters hunt tanks.

And if you had read my previous posts, I'm all for removing the kill count as well.
I don't even give a damn about my score, as long as I do my job.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 16:09:57
There isnt a good enough communication aparatus. Even at best, we are working off the limited BF2 engine

And pubbies arent that coordinated. Like I said, and Natty has been trying to get across, FH2 is about a balance between realism and fun.

Your suggestion skews it to realism, making gameplay more gritty and hardcore than it is. You are in essence forcing random players to play differently from what they are used to

If gameplay was like in COOP, it could work, but in MP, players play as small groups with a third playing independent.

You will be breaking the system essentially.

Pubbies need a gentle nudge to improve gameplay, not a drastic shift. Too dangerous, too risky, and might not be the right direction in the end
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Vernah on 26-09-2010, 16:09:29
Removing hit indicator and kill messages? Probably an interesting idea actually. No need to totally disregard the idea, or lol @ the OP.

However, I believe the majority of players will dislike this move. I believe for you the player, you can remove these indicators yourself, however forcing it upon other players will have to be done through a mini-mod. Also like Natty said, the mod has been out for 3 years. If you alienate the player base now, it's GG.

Maybe you could make this proposal for one of the FH2 Campaigns such as WaW or FHT. I think it may be an interesting thing to try out and see if people enjoy a feature like this. It would make things more epic and z0mg nutty I think, and players will have to make sure that cupcake is dead (DOUBLE TAP).
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 26-09-2010, 16:09:35
Actually in a tourney it is even more important to know who you killed, since this builds rivalries and this is what the tourneys live from. :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 26-09-2010, 17:09:36
I just would like to know what you guys think of making it optionnal sever side ? Some servers could very well run with (a better) immersive hud (than the one already made by FH2) while some other servers would just run as it is now ... Everybody wins.

PS : I, for one, would go on immersive server 90% of the time, and I'm not a big PR fan...

Stop believing that you can have the element of surprise for more than 15 seconds in a game.

That's half the problem with public play.  You sneak into a flagzone undetected and one idiot decides to shoot someone sitting on a flag/nebel/mortar before the flag is grey because it is an easy kill.  In real life , nobody knows you are there.  In the game the entire team likely does now.  There is no lasting surprise attack.  People die and come back to life to hunt you down.  Kill messages or not.  You can't have ambush spots that work for more than 1 or 2 kills.  In rare instances you can find a spot where you can mow down the enemy, but they can't find a good way to flank you because of the layout of statics.


Sorry but ... ??? Are you saying FH2 is about fighting in corridors ? If you can't play well enought to surprise your ennemy, you probably aren't playing well at all. Sorry, but it's a fact.

Besides I don't see any relation with kill messages here...

Kill messages help the social nature of the game.  Make it so that you care and want to vanquish your enemies.  If you own/get owned by someone, you can start a dialog.  You feel connected to that player.  Connections build community.


Suuure ! Not only it happens very often to start a dialog with a better player than you when he's in the other team, but it also helps teamplay and makes rounds awesome ! /sarcasm]

And FH2 is about battles, not vendetta, which means you are not supposed to know the name of most of the guys you kill... Make a mafia mod, then kill messages will work fine (and it will be awesome :)).
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Fuchs on 26-09-2010, 18:09:07
Me and Stonechater usually have alot of fun with just kill messages, we both take a sniper kit and try to snipe eachother on crowded maps like Fall of Tobruk.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 26-09-2010, 18:09:53
Ok 4 pages in one day, too long for me to read, but here's my two cents:

I love playing without hit indicator. For reasons OP told and becouse of crappy bf2 hit register. Sometimes I shoot enemy like million times and always see the hit indicator, but enemy just won't die. If there was no hit indicator, it would be mere "meh, maybe I didn't hit".

And never remove kill messages  ;).
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: kummitus on 26-09-2010, 18:09:24
Gotta agree that kill messages must stay there, without them we all would be just unkown soldiers whom no one knows and all our epic kills would vanish without no one else knowing them except yourself
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Thorondor123 on 26-09-2010, 18:09:17
I once suggested this kind of a deal:

- xxx [weapon] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would be removed.
- xxx [teamkilled with zzz] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would stay.
- You killed xxx / you were killed by yyy -message at lower part of the left side would stay.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: sn00x on 26-09-2010, 18:09:10
I once suggested this kind of a deal:

- xxx [weapon] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would be removed.
- xxx [teamkilled with zzz] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would stay.
- You killed xxx / you were killed by yyy -message at lower part of the left side would stay.

I second this :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: [A9]Bard on 26-09-2010, 18:09:24
I once suggested this kind of a deal:

- xxx [weapon] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would be removed.
- xxx [teamkilled with zzz] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would stay.
- You killed xxx / you were killed by yyy -message at lower part of the left side would stay.

I second this :)

me 3.. as it is or this the quote
I afraid it would be teamkillers delight and campers deluxe with other setup.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 19:09:06
I once suggested this kind of a deal:

- xxx [weapon] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would be removed.
- xxx [teamkilled with zzz] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would stay.
- You killed xxx / you were killed by yyy -message at lower part of the left side would stay.

Seems like the most balanced suggestion.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 20:09:03
Its like appeasement.

And its 'balanced' according to? You still get an alert to go revenge and know if the non-hit detected kill was succesful. So again, balanced how?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 20:09:12
Its like appeasement.

And its 'balanced' according to? You still get an alert to go revenge and know if the non-hit detected kill was succesful. So again, balanced how?


Balanced as in, everyone should be happy.
I really wanted all kill messages to disappear, but pretty much everyone is against this.
At least they won't know what killed them if the top-left messages are gone.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: VonMudra on 26-09-2010, 20:09:54
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  Just because you complain doesn't mean that the whole system should be turned upside down on a whim.  In the end, its up to the devs, and they have given their answer already.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ahonen on 26-09-2010, 22:09:40
Just because you complain doesn't mean that the whole system should be turned upside down on a whim.

Who said that?
I certainly never did.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2010, 22:09:42
Can we focus on the idea, not the guy. Thats a fallacious way to argue.

But here's what I can agree with. Its not a fix as much as it is a different approach.

And your argument for dont exactly blo
the counter-arguments out of the water.

Like i said. Mainstream servers like HSLAN should try it 2 days a week, then we see how it goes.

But I wouldnt want it to totally replace. Just give variety
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Neighbor Kid on 26-09-2010, 22:09:35
im for the removal of both.. i like it.. pr vs fh bah humbug.. i like certain things about boths mods.. and dislike things about both mods so .. theres my voice..
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: LtJimmy on 27-09-2010, 00:09:36
@ both subjects of OP

No, just no.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: General_Henry on 27-09-2010, 01:09:23
it is useless as you could look at the kill count anyway. this is not going to make the game more realistic or what.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Guderian on 27-09-2010, 04:09:59
I once suggested this kind of a deal:

- xxx [weapon] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would be removed.
- xxx [teamkilled with zzz] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would stay.
- You killed xxx / you were killed by yyy -message at lower part of the left side would stay.

I like your suggestion Thor because I've always found the continuous scrolling kill messages a distraction and rather annoying.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: blue on 27-09-2010, 05:09:02
I am a 100% with Natty. If you change this, you will chase a number of people away, myself for one. Right now there is an immersion mode, that is a fine compromise. It takes a lot of hubris to think that everyone should have to conform to what you think is a better way to play. Show us a poll where a clear majority want something like this and you would at least have a leg to stand on.

It puzzles me when people want to change pivotal elements of gameplay this late into the mod. I know we would all like to shape things to our own likings, but at this point most of us are happy with the established system.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 27-09-2010, 08:09:15
I once suggested this kind of a deal:

- xxx [weapon] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would be removed.
- xxx [teamkilled with zzz] yyy kill messages at upper left corner of the screen would stay.
- You killed xxx / you were killed by yyy -message at lower part of the left side would stay.

You want it like in BF:Heroes then. There you see who killed you (and what weapon he had) and you see the name of the guy you killed (and ofcourse you know what weapon you use...)

Why keep the TK message if you don't want the killmessage?

Anyway: here is a scenario:

- you are allied, on Luttich. You just got fragged by a german panther at the Farm flag. You respawn in the mainbase because the flag was greyed out at Farm. Now, the Eastern Mortain flag is being greyed out but the Farm is back to allies. The killmessage shows you that a teammate killed the panther with a bazooka.
Instead of hopping in to a tank and drive to the Farm, you instead hop in to a jeep and races towards the grey Eastern Mortain flag.

Without killmessage, you would probably hop in a tank. drive to the Farm flag and look for the Panther, and waste precious gaming time.
Having no killmessages will make the allready somewhat unfocused gameflow in FH2 completely random and pointless. Guys would run around looking for enemies, tanks without doing anything. The pace would be lost, the action would turn in to some weird "find the enemy" play. This feels way more fitting in for ex Project Reality or Operation Flashpoint. Not in a WW2 actiongame.

Battlefield awareness, the split-second decisions, the pumping action and back n forth conquest over controlpoints, 64 guys fighting at once and the constant updates of kills is the core here. Remove killmessages and that core would be crippled, simple as that.
People complain when DICE did 32 player games like BC2 and BF1943 because "the feeling of being part of a big battle will be gone" now you want to remove the battlefield awareness, one of the key things that makes FH2 feel like a big battle?  :-\
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 27-09-2010, 09:09:43
When was last time you played on public server natty? Removing teamkill messages, would have horrible consequence. Even now, teamkiller are huge problem, it's daily, that someone is killing people on own airfield or perhaps killing teammates with explosives just for fun.

People must see who the idiot teamkiller is, even if they don't get killed by him and admins must see those messages, in order to kick these players.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Mud Buddha on 27-09-2010, 11:09:48
My thoughts on this:

I see the info in the killmessages as just another form of battlefield intelligence. Since, compared to real life,  everything is scaled down for BF/FH, so is the information exchange. I imagine if you get killed on a real battlefield any brother-in-arms that witnessed your demise is gonna inform the rest of the squad/platoon/team/army/whoever what killed you, and how.

So yeah, I want killmessages to stay, because it's how the game is played. It might even be less realistic if they go.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: NTH on 27-09-2010, 11:09:25
The OP has given a well thought out suggestion based on his experience and preferences. (Yes.. my social skills training are paying off here).

My experience are that although you know what kind of weapon or tank is being used to kill this does not give away the position. It might give you an indication, but it is not more then that.
Besides after one or two kills you need to relocate anyway if you don't have death wish.

I think, perhaps WWII buff's can enlighten us here, that when a tank or tanks where shot during WWII, the rest pretty much knew what was happening and how. Or at least get a recon before moving more tanks again in the kill zone.

We don't have the luxury off all this and need to rely on intel by text messages.

And last argument, the element of suprise is gone when you played the maps a few times. You just knew where the favourite hiding spots are.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 27-09-2010, 12:09:26
Even then, I hav survived on Lebisey, taken out numerous back-cappers with a scoped rifle and s-mines, and taken cover in the stairwell when tanks were on to me, returning to surprise unsuspecting infantry who thought the coast was then clear. I.E, kill message + hit-detection, I didn't relocate and still lived.

NTH said it all
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: General_Henry on 27-09-2010, 14:09:21
again, this suggestion does not make the game more realistic, the way it is unrealistic is because you could use the kill messages + minimap + sound to pinpoint enemy locations easily. But even if you removed the kill messages, looking at kill count + deathcount + minimap produce the same results (just more tiresome), and it removed the awesomeness of blowing up an entire squad with your grenade huh.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: djinn on 27-09-2010, 15:09:33
Ok, I think the devs have all the data from this idea to make a soumd decision. We're now simply repeating over and over.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Mud Buddha on 27-09-2010, 15:09:38
[...] and it removed the awesomeness of blowing up an entire squad with your grenade huh.

And of course that ^

Seeing your name suddenly filling the entire killmessage-box because you blew up a packed halftrack or a sneaky squad somewhere in the bushes is what makes it all worth it. I always get real territorial while playing FH (if I'm german I hate everyone on the allied team and vice versa) but even when I see an enemy making a cool multi-kill I press "J" and give him his props, even if it was me in the halftrack. :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: THeTA0123 on 27-09-2010, 15:09:52
[...] and it removed the awesomeness of blowing up an entire squad with your grenade huh.

And of course that ^

Seeing your name suddenly filling the entire killmessage-box because you blew up a packed halftrack or a sneaky squad somewhere in the bushes is what makes it all worth it. I always get real territorial while playing FH (if I'm german I hate everyone on the allied team and vice versa) but even when I see an enemy making a cool multi-kill I press "J" and give him his props, even if it was me in the halftrack. :)
The best feeling ever

Nothing feels as awesome as blowing up a full halftrack with the shreck/Zook
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 27-09-2010, 15:09:31
Right ... Then noone takes the damned halftrack after that ... :P
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: General_Henry on 27-09-2010, 16:09:44
[...] and it removed the awesomeness of blowing up an entire squad with your grenade huh.

And of course that ^

Seeing your name suddenly filling the entire killmessage-box because you blew up a packed halftrack or a sneaky squad somewhere in the bushes is what makes it all worth it. I always get real territorial while playing FH (if I'm german I hate everyone on the allied team and vice versa) but even when I see an enemy making a cool multi-kill I press "J" and give him his props, even if it was me in the halftrack. :)
The best feeling ever

Nothing feels as awesome as blowing up a full halftrack with the shreck/Zook

Or a riflegrenade exploding precisely inside a full German Halftrack and of course you expect a lot of "wtf" in their chat messages. But that rarely happens , though.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: THeTA0123 on 27-09-2010, 17:09:56
depends. your best chance is to hit the MG

But ye,  its difficult
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Rustysteel on 27-09-2010, 19:09:25
It's funny reading this thread it sounds like your all playing Halo or something with all this talk of uber multi kills and personal vendettas :P j/k

Anyway I agree with Ahonen I like his suggestion, but I would keep the teamkill messages, I need to know when I f*ck up and the team needs to know when we have some arsehole doing it deliberately. But it looks like we're in the minority so I'll ask for something else, can you please the remove the kill messages from the immersive hud they still pop up when I have it on thank you.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Mud Buddha on 27-09-2010, 20:09:42
It's funny reading this thread it sounds like your all playing Halo or something with all this talk of uber multi kills and personal vendettas :P j/k


Haha, indeed. But at least on the FH battlefield it's still quite the memorable occasion, because it's so rare.  :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: SiCaRiO on 27-09-2010, 22:09:42
i would still have that feeling even when my kills are only shown to me
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: General_Henry on 28-09-2010, 05:09:46
i would still have that feeling even when my kills are only shown to me

Hmmm Hmmm a JU52 teamkilled half of the team spawned...

I mean, those are certainly some fun things to have. That "wtf" moment is certainly worth my time invested in gaming. Removing kill messages are not going to make the game much more realistic, but it removes some big element of fun.

It is also some kind of morale-boosting when you know that your team was pwning the other team.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Smiles on 29-09-2010, 18:09:30
Id like the kill messages to stay.
I wouldnt mind removing hit indicators for armored targets.
Id like the been killed by, kill message left center to be removed, only because its to visual and a its not really that neccesary if youve joined a squad.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 02-01-2011, 22:01:13
Lots of good points against kill messages and hit indicator here :
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=12890.105.

Nowhere else to answer, so I post here.

Quote from: Natty
Quote from: Beaufort

Quote from: Natty
I don't know why the game shouldn't be informing me about the primary action of the game...

S-mines
At-mines
Handgrenades
Mortars
Artillery

You don't want killmessages for these weapons?... Then we might as well remove it all or? What fun is it to place S-mines or Shell with Mortar if you don't know when you kill someone?
Because if you can't see or hear what you hit with all those weapons you talked about, it is called blind firing. Are you saying
this is what makes this game "fun" ?
huh what?..... grenades you throw in to buildings or over walls.. it's not "blind firing".. s-mines/at-mines you place and await the killmessage to pop up informing you if you succeeded or not.. mortar/arty shells you dont always have a dead spot on the guys who die, they can be hiding in bushes, under roofs, trees you name it...
Removing killmessages from these weapons would make them pointless.. Why would I sit in the arty and shell the battlefield if I don't see when enemies die ?

Yes, shooting grenades over walls and into buildings are counted as blind firing. Exemple on PHL : they hide behind a wall to the left of "bridge" and start to spam grenades over the river. Without hit indicator and kill messages this kind of thing couldn't happen, because the throwers wouldn't have their kick seeing how many ennemies they kill... Same goes for nades into a building, you always hear the victims moan or go upstairs to check for survivors. If you rely only on kill messages, you are blind firing.

About artillery : If the targets are hidden, well good for them :P, and if they are outside of your visual an you kill them nevertheless, it is also blind firing. Just ask the german team at Lebisey how fun they think it is...

Smines and AT mines, very few players are using them without looking after them, and they are not offensive weapons anyway so ...

Im insisting because kill messages and such realy spoil the game on many levels. If some want to keep them that is fine, but we could have an option for servers willing to try more realism without downloading Vicious mod :P

Quote from: Natty
Quote from: Sicario
also: you can remove kill message without removing teamkill mesage.
Yes, but why only feed back on the negative experience?

It is just a measure against teamkillers I guess, to kick them out swiftly. It keeps the server clean.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Yustax on 02-01-2011, 23:01:47
Im insisting because kill messages and such realy spoil the game on many levels. If some want to keep them that is fine, but we could have an option for servers willing to try more realism without downloading Vicious mod :P

The game should be fun as well, removing them just because you feel more "realism" doesnt cut it.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 02-01-2011, 23:01:10
That is not just me, and besides you could still play on server with kill messages on, so why not ?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Atkins on 03-01-2011, 00:01:37
Some good arguments in this thread, for both sides.
I can imagine as can be seen from the resistance in this thread that removing DMs (death messages) isn't that popular idea for somewhat arcadish ww2-shooter like FH2. I still would not mind that if some server owners run some sort of *realism mode* from time to time, if that is even possible.

Even 99.9% of RO and DH servers use DMs, and someone mentioned in that other thread that RO is "uber realistic", which it btw is not. After several years of DMs, ppl are so used to it that trying to change it completely will just not work.

That hit-indicator on the other hand seems weird and redundant for someone not used to the BF-series. Other games and mods seems to do quite well without such weird feature.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Eat Uranium on 03-01-2011, 00:01:00
Whoops, I realised I put this in the wrong thread:

The reasoning I'd give for removal of the hit indicator is this: on some of the gamenights, the server has still been running with some FHT settings, of which no hit indicator is one.  After a short period of missing it, it starts to become more fun.  It also cuts down on long range shooting somewhat - if you know that you can spray an area 300m away with your MG and find anyone hiding there by the little flashing x, you are more inclined to do it.

I personally would like to see the kill messages simplified and delayed.  The former being if I shoot you with an SMLE, it says "Me [Rifle] You".  The delay would be about ~10 seconds maybe, and there would be no 'You killed so-and-so' notification (the one that appears under the chat).  The victim still sees the 'You were killed by Me' notification immediately though.

The idea being that say you know that someone is in a building.  You throw in a grenade and wait till it explodes.  Currently, you would then instantly know if the grenade did any damage (hit indicator) and if it killed anyone (kill message + notification).  With the above system, you wouldn't know this unless you waited ~10 seconds, or until you went in.  Now I don't know about you, but I love the kind of psychology you have here.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 03-01-2011, 00:01:00
That's brilliant EU   :D

That would really be fun and I see no reason why this wouldn't work (other than game engine)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: McCloskey on 03-01-2011, 01:01:10
Yes, shooting grenades over walls and into buildings are counted as blind firing. Exemple on PHL : they hide behind a wall to the left of "bridge" and start to spam grenades over the river. Without hit indicator and kill messages this kind of thing couldn't happen, because the throwers wouldn't have their kick seeing how many ennemies they kill.

Is it just me or does this sound like a good anti-nadespamming measure? It's because ppl wouldn't know if they killed someone why they would no longer keep throwing grenades left & right... so logically they would save them for occasions where they'd know if they have a chance of killing their target (because they actually have one) - like clearing out buildings.

That being said, I support removal (even a partial one) or delay of kill messages.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 01:01:41
Yes, I don't mind if players use nades as they should, what I want is not to have this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo
or artillerists blind-shelling the same position over and over again.

Well, at least on some servers ... :P
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2011, 08:01:19
Yes, I don't mind if players use nades as they should

and there it came  ;). The problem is not the messages then, it is that players don't play as you think they should play. Maybe they think that they should, throw nades to the "left and right" and over the wall at PHL?.... Every WW2 movie Ive seen, soldiers use grenades to throw in to houses, over walls etc.. "Blind firing" to see if there are enemies there.

When do you propose I "should" use the nades then? When I see an enemy storming towards me over a field?

Look at any Fh2 map... even without the KillMessages or Hit indicator, you still would know where the enemies are, because that is the way our maps are built. They would still "spam" the nades over the same walls/hedges and in to the same windows, because they know there are dudes lurking there.

Removing their feedback will not make it safer for you hiding in there, they will not "save their nades for when they really need them". Players that have a nade will throw it in to the window because he has a nade and can throw it in to the window.

If the real problem you feel is the existence of nades and riflenades, well then that is a totally different discussion and can be adressed instead :)

There is really only one good answer to this whole debate, and Ciupita nailed it down for you clear, read this please, it explains everything :)

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=12890.167
Quote
Note: this message doesn't take part of that hit indicator discussian but the whole topic

What you PR fans don't notice (note: I like PR very much): FH2 is about World War 2, PR is about modern wars. After CoD4 Modern Warfare came out, WW2 games have been a long off fashion. Why PR has massive amount of american players? America is fighting a war in Afghanistan and people who aren't fit for army or don't want to fight real war, can still experience that war in game since it's portrayed there. They want to fight in war what they can see from TV every day.

Also: PR features battles of like 300 vs. 300 when FH2 shows up larger scale battles (thousands vs. thousands). When PR takes smaller battles, it's obvious that they highlight teamwork and squad tactics etc.

WW2 was as chaotic as FH2 gameplay. If we start concentrating on small unit tactics (aka. start building hardcore realism teamplay thingys), we can't have those large scale battles (which FH2 is about) anymore. FH2 gameplay is good as it is, maybe removing some 1s1k tank kills and that's it. If I want small squad tactics WW2, I play RnL for HL2, it's meant for it.

And now for latest topic in this thread: I could live without hit indicators and killmessages, but I'm not annoyed because of them.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: SiCaRiO on 03-01-2011, 09:01:42
i fail to see how removing kill message turns FH2 massive combats to PR strategic squad movement
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 03-01-2011, 10:01:21
That's not the point Sicario. Ciupita meant the discussion in general.
Removing indicators for me, as I've stated before, would definitely reduce the fun I have playing the game.
Now there is nothing against having servers running without DM / HI and perhaps a dev will find the time to code something for you there, but I wouldn't like to see this in general.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: donjuan on 03-01-2011, 10:01:34
I think that the problem is that you guys don´t play FH at all...
You are just doing theory and more theory and you forgot how FH actually plays and feels.
If you were on Crete, storming the monastery with a whole squad and a MP40, you wouldn´t give a shit about killmesagges and hit-indicators!
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 10:01:47
The post of Ciupita should have been posted to Vicious topic imo.

You realy are nit picking, the story with PHL (which is only an exemple) involves an ammo box and a true blind nade spamming bf2 style ... That is not as they should be used, is it ?

What about everything else I have said ?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2011, 11:01:26
I really do not like to make arbitrary comments, but squad movement isn't strategic.. it's tactical... in battlefield, the strategic goals are How the teams win the map, ticketbleed / destroy all weapons caches  ;) / Take all controlpoints / etc.. the big stuff.
The Tactical goals are the Squad maneuvers. The How to take position Alpha, the Crouch behind wall, The Take observation bunker on Pdh.. etc..

FH2 has the exact same Strategical Goals as BF2. cap flags. Removing hit/kill feedback would not change that.
It would however, totally disrupt the tactical game play. You would lob nades in to trenches and bunkers and not have a clue if you hit anyone, you would shoot at figures in the hedges / horizon and not even know if you hit them or not. It would be 64 guys literary having no clue wtf is going on.
Ciupita is saying that FH2 plays out in a chaotic, large scale manner. this is what we want :) it is WW2 battles, and we want 32 vs 32 to fight in one big fight, we don't want separate mini-battles of squad V squads.
If you have the squad teamplay where it is you and 4 guys VS these 5 enemies, and that fight is the only fight you see in 20min, and if you also need to lay down and aim 5 seconds to hit, and the respawn time is 60sec, then maybe hit/killmessage is redudant :) Then you can tell your squad buddy over VoIP "I hit him once" / "He's down" etc...
In FH2 (actual examples; Crater area on Pdh, Fields of PHL, Town of PeB, Tunis, Ramelle, Lebisey hedges, Luttich center, Falaise, sfakia etc) you simply can not communicate in this manner even if you wanted to since the enemy is everywhere.
Only in a few maps in certain situations do these "squad tactic events" take place.. and yes, they are cool. But they are not the core experience of FH2.

So.... the general gameplay flow of FH2 (like Ciupita says) is not 4-5 guys over VoIP trying to take out a bunker by VoIP:ing and covering eachother and moving forward like US troops in Afghanistan.
It is 32 guys storming one or two controlpoints. with explosions and bullets flying all over the place.

Just take Falaise Pocket as example.. germans attacking the destroyed battery.. What happens here (and at many similar controlpoints in FH2) is that you shoot defenders and wait for that tiny "gap" of resistance before you charge for the cap. You kill enemies (by lobbing in nades, or shooting them as they appear in the holes in the walls) and when you feel you have a chance to push for the cap, you do it.
Without the feedback of hit/kill, you simply wouldn't know..

You simply can't communicate all your actions and the enemy's action over VoIP in this situation, since the whole team is engaged in the same fight.. Our pace is way too high for singular hits/kills to be communicated.  We need the game to tell you if you hit or not, and if you killed or not, what killed you, who killed you. Otherwise the game would just be a total mess.. Not just this WW2 epic mess that we like, but a total and simply not-fun, mess.

I think you want FH2 to be a different game (mod) than it actually is... you want PR, or a slower game play overall.. Where you prone for 2minutes, see an enemy (maybe a german patrolling on a castle wall with his rifle on his back, smoking a cigarette) then take him out, communicate this to your buddies ("He's down") or that sniper scene in "Hurt Locker" where you and your spotter buddy take 25min to take down these two 'bogeys' in a house 400meters away.. This is not FH2 :) and never will be.
Or:: you want us to have assets that we don't have. For example when you shoot a german in a house 150meters away, his body would fall out of the window like in classic 70's war movies.. Or you want the players animation when getting hit to be so visible you can see it from this far, or blood splattering up like a fountain and his scream heard 200meters away + helmet flying off or he throws his rifle away while waving his arms as he falls down.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 03-01-2011, 11:01:37
Removing hit/kill feedback would not change that. It would however, totally disrupt the tactical game play. You would lob nades in to trenches and bunkers and not have a clue if you hit anyone, you would shoot at figures in the hedges / horizon and not even know if you hit them or not. It would be 64 guys literary having no clue wtf is going on.
Ciupita is saying that FH2 plays out in a chaotic, large scale manner. this is what we want :) it is WW2 battles, and we want 32 vs 32 to fight in one big fight, we don't want separate mini-battles of squad V squads.
If you have the squad teamplay where it is you and 4 guys VS these 5 enemies, and that fight is the only fight you see in 20min, and if you also need to lay down and aim 5 seconds to hit, and the respawn time is 60sec, then maybe hit/killmessage is redudant :) Then you can tell your squad buddy over VoIP "I hit him once" / "He's down" etc...


[ignore]So in ww2 they got cross in their view to confirm hit  ::)?.[/ignore]

I've played on servers without hit indicator (thors brigade few version back and gamenight). It didn't make gameplay confusing at all. It only made long range tank battles last longer as even if you scored hit on enemy, next shot could be totally missed as you can't magicaly know the exact right pixel where to aim.

It also reduced wtf-moments ALOT. No longer "I'm sure I hit that guy 3 times with rifle but he just shot me after that", as I actually didn't have X confirming those hits. Maybe I just missed.

About lobbing nades. As long as Kill message stays, it gives feedback enough, if you killed something. No need for this stupid hit indicator. Seriously no other game has this "feature" and I have never heard about someone wanting it for any other game.

Hit indicator simply doesn't fit for FH2 gameplay.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 11:01:26
Natty, say that to Vicious. Im not asking for every stuff PR has, just removing hit cross and kill messages. That is all. I agree with Ciupita, and she doesn't seem to mind if kill messages are removed or not.

Now,

FH2 has the exact same Strategical Goals as BF2. cap flags. Removing hit/kill feedback would not change that.
It would however, totally disrupt the tactical game play. You would lob nades in to trenches and bunkers and not have a clue if you hit anyone, you would shoot at figures in the hedges / horizon and not even know if you hit them or not. It would be 64 guys literary having no clue wtf is going on.

Nades in bunkers : you hear them scream in the bunker and you must go check in to secure the place.
Horizon firefights : who likes that anyway ?

Just take Falaise Pocket as example.. germans attacking the destroyed battery.. What happens here (and at many similar controlpoints in FH2) is that you shoot defenders and wait for that tiny "gap" of resistance before you charge for the cap. You kill enemies (by lobbing in nades, or shooting them as they appear in the holes in the walls) and when you feel you have a chance to push for the cap, you do it.
Without the feedback of hit/kill, you simply wouldn't know...

You simply can't communicate all your actions and the enemy's action over VoIP in this situation, since the whole team is engaged in the same fight.. Our pace is way too high for singular hits/kills to be communicated.  We need the game to tell you if you hit or not, and if you killed or not, what killed you, who killed you. Otherwise the game would just be a total mess.. Not just this WW2 epic mess that we like, but a total and simply not-fun, mess.

Im not sure Im getting it right. You are saying the team rely on kill messages to attack a flag (say flak battery on Falaise) ? Because unless they see 32 kill messages in a row, there still could be more defenders hiding. You can't know anyway.

Or:: you want us to have assets that we don't have. For example when you shoot a german in a house 150meters away, his body would fall out of the window like in classic 70's war movies.. Or you want the players animation when getting hit to be so visible you can see it from this far, or blood splattering up like a fountain and his scream heard 200meters away + helmet flying off or he throws his rifle away while waving his arms as he falls down.


Like I said, if you shoot at someone, fh2's 1s1k (or at least bleed) makes him die, slow down or hide to heal himself. That is not as good as helmet flying and all, but that is good enough...
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 03-01-2011, 12:01:55
Another good thing we´d get if kill messages and hit-indicators would be removed:
Suppressive fire would be more usefull.
When a flag is being assaulted right now machine gunners act more like marksmen. Instead of creating a "beaten zone" they fire a few short bursts on a target they see. Once they get the kill message they stop shooting instead of keeping the enemy supressed. If HI and KM would be removed they´d have to keep on shooting, because a kill can only be confirmed once the position is taken.

Just my 2 Cents.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2011, 13:01:00
It also reduced wtf-moments ALOT. No longer "I'm sure I hit that guy 3 times with rifle but he just shot me after that", as I actually didn't have X confirming those hits. Maybe I just missed.

wow  :o  so you want an unconsistent damage system to be justified by a non existence feedback system  :o talk about a messy game experience  :P

Im not sure Im getting it right. You are saying the team rely on kill messages to attack a flag (say flak battery on Falaise) ? Because unless they see 32 kill messages in a row, there still could be more defenders hiding. You can't know anyway.

no no... The assumption was that you don't need the hit/kill indicator because your squadmates could inform you if you hit/killed or not. This simply doesn't work when you have 32 guys charging one or two CPs.. you need your own feedback because face it, in FH2 you fight alone even with a full team around you, because of our pace.

Like I said, if you shoot at someone, fh2's 1s1k (or at least bleed) makes him die, slow down or hide to heal himself. That is not as good as helmet flying and all, but that is good enough...

But they actually don't. you get wounded a lot also, and like I said, shooting dudes who prone in hedges 150m away, you simply don't know if he died or not... Dudes running over desert plains yes, you can see if he falls down, I get that.. but most maps have insane amount of vegitation, small statics, dark lighting etc... guys proning in hedges, hiding in houses.. these guys you will not know if you hit or killed :)
Please Fraps some FH2 moments and show situations where it would be more fun for you without hit feedback.
I have played in FHGN without the hit indicator, I hated it. Long range tank duels are simply pointless.. you don't see the effect of hit (sparks, smoke) so where is the tactic??... Normally if you hit someone with a tankshell (on Gazla for ex.) you decide your next maneuver by if you hit or not... If you do hit him and you are at 100% health yourself, you charge and can risk more. If you're hit and you miss, you play it carefully.
Tell me how a tank duel plays out if you don't know if you hit or not, seriously. :-\ Or dog-fights, or
Suppressive fire would be more usefull.
When a flag is being assaulted right now machine gunners act more like marksmen. Instead of creating a "beaten zone" they fire a few short bursts on a target they see. Once they get the kill message they stop shooting instead of keeping the enemy supressed. If HI and KM would be removed they´d have to keep on shooting, because a kill can only be confirmed once the position is taken.

^covering MG fire... Our MGs are quite useless as it is, you want to remove the hit indicator from MG42? wow... ::) Without Hit indicator, you think players would spend time spraying in to "enemy positions"?... they wouldn't, it would be pointless for them, since they'd got no feedback they wouldn't know if they succeeded or not..  :-\
(and why would you want them to keep firing in to an empty area? I dont get that at all, the only thing he would risk is making more TKs as his friends rush the CP...)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: katakulli on 03-01-2011, 13:01:01
 ''When i saw the main page of forum''
  Hey looks like we have a new(?) thread, is it maus? No? Than it must be alpenfestung 2  or tanker kits ::) Nooooo kill messages ...........again. + 8 pages spam. Btw how about removing ''the map''? It's unrealistic too.
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2493/facepalmro.jpg) (http://img208.imageshack.us/i/facepalmro.jpg/)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Eat Uranium on 03-01-2011, 13:01:08
It also reduced wtf-moments ALOT. No longer "I'm sure I hit that guy 3 times with rifle but he just shot me after that", as I actually didn't have X confirming those hits. Maybe I just missed.

wow  :o  so you want an unconsistent damage system to be justified by a non existence feedback system  :o talk about a messy game experience  :P
Or to reword that:
wow  :o  so you want to hide an unfixable inconsistent damage system by removing part of the feedback system that gets it reported in the first place  :o talk about less complaints about hit registration  :P
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 03-01-2011, 13:01:26
^covering MG fire... Our MGs are quite useless as it is, you want to remove the hit indicator from MG42? wow... ::) Without Hit indicator, you think players would spend time spraying in to "enemy positions"?... they wouldn't, it would be pointless for them, since they'd got no feedback they wouldn't know if they succeeded or not..  :-\
(and why would you want them to keep firing in to an empty area? I dont get that at all, the only thing he would risk is making more TKs as his friends rush the CP...)

If someone sets an MG up correctly chances of killing friendlies are rather low. Also you´ve got either visual contact to your buddies or can check the minimap for their positions.
And why would I spray into an "empty area"?
For the same reason I do it in PR: To supress the enemy. The last time I played FH2 there was a "supressing shader". The more rounds I sent into an enemy area (=enemy flag zone) the more I make sure the enemy players keep their heads down. Once friendlies are close enough they can attack with grenades etc. and the MG player can relocate or cover the flanks etc.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 03-01-2011, 13:01:09
''When i saw the main page of forum''
  Hey looks like we have a new(?) thread, is it maus? No? Than it must be alpenfestung 2  or tanker kits ::) Nooooo kill messages ...........again. + 8 pages spam. Btw how about removing ''the map''? It's unrealistic too.

Don't worry Kut, this thread is already more than 4 months old. ^^
...The last time I played FH2 there was a "supressing shader". ...

Actually you could now be kicked from the tester team for lack of gameplay experience. ;)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 03-01-2011, 13:01:14


Actually you could now be kicked from the tester team for lack of gameplay experience. ;)
I don´t get it. o0
Please enlighten my small and slow mind.  ::)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Ts4EVER on 03-01-2011, 13:01:13
homer_jay is a tester?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 03-01-2011, 14:01:44
Sorry, my bad, got him mixed up with another AWOL tester.
Anyhow, then you haven't been playing FH2 for over 1 1/2 years! Burn the heretic! ^^
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 03-01-2011, 14:01:44
Well, I haven´t spent the last 1 1/2 years with too many video games.
But there was a shader, right? And it was deemed "too much" and got removed, but there are still supressing effect currently in-game, right? If not, please add them again.

/inb4 "Stupid PR fag!!112"
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2011, 14:01:19
I love this thread :)

If someone sets an MG up correctly chances of killing friendlies are rather low.
"Sets up an MG"?  :) in FH2?.... You mean throw himself to the ground on the right spot, right?
As our maps are designed and as our combat pace flows, you don't really "set up an MG" (in public servers), you run around with the rest of the bunch, and throw yourself to the ground and spray with the MG when you see bogey's to shoot.

And why would I spray into an "empty area"?
If you don't get hit/kill indicators, you won't know if there are enemy's there. And it was you who said that with the indicator, players just "stop shooting instead of keeping the enemy supressed", so I guess you want them to keep firing, even if there might not be any enemies there. (he won't know, since he gets no feedback if he hit or not, right?)

For the same reason I do it in PR: To supress the enemy. The last time I played FH2 there was a "supressing shader". The more rounds I sent into an enemy area (=enemy flag zone) the more I make sure the enemy players keep their heads down. Once friendlies are close enough they can attack with grenades etc. and the MG player can relocate or cover the flanks etc.

And this is the root of our little disagreement party here... FH2 is not PR, and never will be. It is also not a tournament, Because we don't want that :) As Ciuputa wrote... Players simply aren't keeping their heads down in this mod. If you have an MG set up, you're an easy target for rifle-men, not a threat. Now this is a whole other problem ofcourse, but removing the poor MG gunners hit/kill indicator would only render his already poor weapon totally useless. :-\

And the day I see "Once friendlies are close enough they can attack with grenades etc. and the MG player can relocate or cover the flanks etc." on a public server, will be the day I change my name to   "omfg:-X IWasWrongAllTheTime :-X".. you don't "relocate and cover flanks" in FH2... it simply doesn't happen in normal public play. when it does happen, it's a squad of dudes who are VoIP or TS:ing with eachother, and as we said before, they are probably communicating with eachother anyway ("They're down, go for the flag I cover you") and can just ignore the hit/kill feedback ... or?  :)

Edit: just read you havent played since prior 2.2... ok then,  8)
and no one calls anyone pr fag here.. we like PR and the pace they have fit rights for that kind of warfare.. not for ww2. *piuh* :P
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 15:01:54
@ katakuli : talk about spam ... dont you have a 180° panzerschreck shell drop to suggest ? :P

Im not sure Im getting it right. You are saying the team rely on kill messages to attack a flag (say flak battery on Falaise) ? Because unless they see 32 kill messages in a row, there still could be more defenders hiding. You can't know anyway.

no no... The assumption was that you don't need the hit/kill indicator because your squadmates could inform you if you hit/killed or not. This simply doesn't work when you have 32 guys charging one or two CPs.. you need your own feedback because face it, in FH2 you fight alone even with a full team around you, because of our pace.


I don't know who said that. You would simply look after your teammates to see what they are doing, covering each other, and improving teamwork...

Like I said, if you shoot at someone, fh2's 1s1k (or at least bleed) makes him die, slow down or hide to heal himself. That is not as good as helmet flying and all, but that is good enough...

But they actually don't. you get wounded a lot also, and like I said, shooting dudes who prone in hedges 150m away, you simply don't know if he died or not... Dudes running over desert plains yes, you can see if he falls down, I get that.. but most maps have insane amount of vegitation, small statics, dark lighting etc... guys proning in hedges, hiding in houses.. these guys you will not know if you hit or killed :)

...making hedges an houses safer places and firefights longer. Is that bad ?


Please Fraps some FH2 moments and show situations where it would be more fun for you without hit feedback.
I have played in FHGN without the hit indicator, I hated it. Long range tank duels are simply pointless.. you don't see the effect of hit (sparks, smoke) so where is the tactic??... Normally if you hit someone with a tankshell (on Gazla for ex.) you decide your next maneuver by if you hit or not... If you do hit him and you are at 100% health yourself, you charge and can risk more. If you're hit and you miss, you play it carefully.
Tell me how a tank duel plays out if you don't know if you hit or not, seriously. :-\ Or dog-fights, or


Maybe it would be more "fun" for your target ... Maybe it would make tank fights last longer ... I don't know if you know it, but über long hits with regular weapons or vehicles aren't popular at all (let alone realistic).


And the day I see "Once friendlies are close enough they can attack with grenades etc. and the MG player can relocate or cover the flanks etc." on a public server, will be the day I change my name to   "omfg:-X IWasWrongAllTheTime :-X".. you don't "relocate and cover flanks" in BF2... it simply doesn't happen in normal public play. when it does happen, it's a squad of dudes who are VoIP or TS:ing with eachother, and as we said before, they are probably communicating with eachother anyway ("They're down, go for the flag I cover you") and can just ignore the hit/kill feedback ... or?  :)

Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: FatJoe on 03-01-2011, 15:01:59
I like the idea of removing the hit indicator and I wouldn't mind trying it out. But kill message stays for sure. It's a part of where fun/arcadeism overweighs the realism part. It's part of the community, I want to see who I killed, I want to smile when I shoot Toddel, I want to apologize when I shoot Flippy ( unless he's in an arty, then I laugh ) and I want to laugh when my team mate takes out 5 people in a truck with 1 grenade, you know the moment.. where people go "wow" & "haha" when the kill message screen gets filled instantly with 5 kills made by the same person.


But, I really wouldn't cry if the hit indication would be removed, so we'll just see :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 15:01:55
Not even as an option server side ?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Atkins on 03-01-2011, 15:01:01
I think these 2 matters should be divided in to 2 separate topics.

a) death/kill messages
b) hit-indicator / the hit-cross thingy


a-option will probably never be removed totally from a game that has had them for 3 years. Ppl are just too used to it to comprehend a game without them. On the other hand, server owners could run their servers without it sometimes, just to spice up the game.

Btw the redundant "You killed this and that" message could be removed imo, as u can see ur kill already from the other wall of text, right? In RO they just use one "kill list" for everyone where your kills are written with white color to distinguish them from others.
Imo less duplicate stuff in the screen the better.


b-option is, like ajappat said, a weird feature that other fps games mostly don't have and they seem to work just fine. Tbh, if you can't tell whether your shot hit or not without an overlay flashy thingy to indicate this, then there is something missing from the game itself. Hitting someone should either produce a puff, sound/voice effect or/and blood splatter that indicates if you hit or not.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: GuinNess on 03-01-2011, 15:01:29

Maybe it would be more "fun" for your target ... Maybe it would make tank fights last longer ... I don't know if you know it, but über long hits with regular weapons or vehicles aren't popular at all (let alone realistic).


I don't think this would make tank fights last longer because most tankers know their weapon and how to use it.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: FatJoe on 03-01-2011, 15:01:57
Not even as an option server side ?

I would personally much more prefer a Immersive Mode (http://fhwiki.warumdarum.de/w/Immersive_Mode) server side option and I do think I brought up the subject of somehow tying it to the "infantry only" option for servers, but I don't remember the outcome of that discussion if there ever was one and I simply don't know if this is possible at all. I might bring the subject up again to our coders and get an answer on it.


Hitting someone should either produce a puff, sound/voice effect or/and blood splatter that indicates if you hit or not.

though I agree, the BF2 engine is special in this case that you can get the blood spatters effect when you shoot someone, without the character actually registering a hit.. wonderful wonderful engine :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 03-01-2011, 15:01:09
Hitting someone should either produce a puff, sound/voice effect or/and blood splatter that indicates if you hit or not.
And with 1s1k FH2 rifles, dropping body is quite good indicator imo. If it doesn't kill, it doesn't really matter was it missed, wounding or not registered hit.


Maybe it would be more "fun" for your target ... Maybe it would make tank fights last longer ... I don't know if you know it, but über long hits with regular weapons or vehicles aren't popular at all (let alone realistic).
I don't think this would make tank fights last longer because most tankers know their weapon and how to use it.

I think. Have you ever tried?

Ofcourse most people still kill with one hit. After all, most tank fights are over after one shot. But in case of really long range (or hard ballistics of pz4 ausf.D) it for sure makes firefights last longer.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2011, 15:01:12
b-option is, like ajappat said, a weird feature that other fps games mostly don't have and they seem to work just fine. Tbh, if you can't tell whether your shot hit or not without an overlay flashy thingy to indicate this, then there is something missing from the game itself. Hitting someone should either produce a puff, sound/voice effect or/and blood splatter that indicates if you hit or not.

yes! there is :) this is BF2 and we can not notify you with anything else than the hit indicator.
We cant make a "puff" that is visible 400meters
We cant have a sound that is heard 400meters (you would hear every sound.. it would be an insane spam)
We cant make blood splatter that is visible 400meters and through bushes etc.
We cant make overexaggerated animations like in war movies

We can have, a flashy overlay.

BF2 has a rendering problem (FoV) where distances make everything very small... maybe you dont know it but....75m ingame looks like 150m IRL.... 150m makes a guy almost a pixel... where is the feedback of hit on this pixel?

And with 1s1k FH2 rifles, dropping body is quite good indicator imo. If it doesn't kill, it doesn't really matter was it missed, wounding or not registered hit.

Im sorry but did you just say that it doesn't matter if you hit someone or not, if he didn't die?...  ::)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 03-01-2011, 15:01:36
"Sets up an MG"?  :) in FH2?.... You mean throw himself to the ground on the right spot, right?
As our maps are designed and as our combat pace flows, you don't really "set up an MG" (in public servers), you run around with the rest of the bunch, and throw yourself to the ground and spray with the MG when you see bogey's to shoot.
"Throwing yourself on the right spot" is what you can mostly call "setting up a machine gun", atleast a medium machine gun.
According to you logic Lafette MGs are useless and not needed in FH2 because all a machine gunner needs to do in FH2 is run and gun.
If you don't get hit/kill indicators, you won't know if there are enemy's there. And it was you who said that with the indicator, players just "stop shooting instead of keeping the enemy supressed", so I guess you want them to keep firing, even if there might not be any enemies there. (he won't know, since he gets no feedback if he hit or not, right?)
I actually HAVE a feedback that tells me IF there is an enemy in the position I´m assaulting: Once you see him (visual) or once you get shot at (audio/visual). If there is no enemy showing himself at the top of a trench then I don´t need to fire. But once I see him returning fire on my team mates I have the "go!" to make sure he keeps his head down.
My main concern is to remove all those "little articifical" helpers. A game becomes much more immersive when the screen isn´t clustered with game messages (yeah, I know that I captured a flag, because I see my teams flag flying up on that pole. No need to tell me I earned "x-amount" of points for that.). I don´t need to have a hit indicator. In a firefight I can´t always see that I´ve hit an enemy but I know from certain things I can observe that I could have killed him. For example when I see that he stopped fireing or when I can actually see him getting hit. These are all "real-life indicators" that work well in-game, too. And if I really do have a 500m firefight, having a feedback such as the hit indicator is plain ridicolous. All of the above "indicators" are more than enough.
If you make the game more "cleaner" and let the player concentrate on his surroundings, instead of clustering him with "hints" the game will feel more like "the real thing", you try to portray and each player tries to feel.

And this is the root of our little disagreement party here... FH2 is not PR, and never will be. It is also not a tournament, Because we don't want that Smiley As Ciuputa wrote... Players simply aren't keeping their heads down in this mod. If you have an MG set up, you're an easy target for rifle-men, not a threat. Now this is a whole other problem ofcourse, but removing the poor MG gunners hit/kill indicator would only render his already poor weapon totally useless. Undecided

And the day I see "Once friendlies are close enough they can attack with grenades etc. and the MG player can relocate or cover the flanks etc." on a public server, will be the day I change my name to   "omfg:-X IWasWrongAllTheTime Lips sealed".. you don't "relocate and cover flanks" in FH2... it simply doesn't happen in normal public play. when it does happen, it's a squad of dudes who are VoIP or TS:ing with eachother, and as we said before, they are probably communicating with eachother anyway ("They're down, go for the flag I cover you") and can just ignore the hit/kill feedback ... or?  Smiley
But why are you content then, that your average Pubby player can´t follow tactics? I just can´t understand why you´re happy that FH2 is basically a "BF Vanilla light", which has some "realistic" gameplay features, such as bleeding out, more realistic weapon handling etc., but at the same time when it comes to tactics you just shrug and say "I know, machine gunners are basically useless, but we are not PR, so why change anything?!". A good game doesn´t just create a "realistic" athmosphere with visuals (which FH2 does. Your graphics and effects are stunning!) but also from gameplay.
And I´m really feeling bad for saying this, but FH2s gameplay doesn´t really convince me. Especially "slaughterhouse" maps like Tunis are plain boring. Most of your bigger maps DO HAVE the potential to be good gameplay-wise, but turn into "frag-fests" none-the-less. IMO it´s mostly the speed of the whole mod. If I can rush from one flag to another in no-time it´s no wonder that there will never be an authentic WW2-feeling.
And if players don´t play in squads and behave competely "un WW2-like", why do you accept it just like that?
Like you said, there is a small bunch of VOIPers, who follow tactics and behave authentic and do what I have described, but what about the rest? Maybe you DEVs really need to take deceisive steps and enforce a certain tactical behaviour...

Edit: just read you havent played since prior 2.2... ok then,  Cool
and no one calls anyone pr fag here.. we like PR and the pace they have fit rights for that kind of warfare.. not for ww2. *piuh* Tongue
That´s not what I have said. I´ve downloaded and played the latest release. It seems, though that I have mixed some things up with PR, which I play a bit ATM, because I´m at home.
I still don´t understand why you beat the old "WW2 was different than modern combat"-horse dead, all the time. We only have max. 64 players on a server. There only is a certain scale you can represent on each map. Sure you can create 32 vs 32 tank duels, but especially the number of infantry combatants in FH2 will never represent the number of soldiers involved in a day-long battle stretching over quite a wide area.

/walloftext

EDIT: FatJoes idea of a server-side immersive effect sounds good. This way you can even see for yourself if you´re ideas or my lunatic suggestions are more accepted in the community

Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 15:01:05
Not even as an option server side ?

I would personally much more prefer a Immersive Mode (http://fhwiki.warumdarum.de/w/Immersive_Mode) server side option and I do think I brought up the subject of somehow tying it to the "infantry only" option for servers, but I don't remember the outcome of that discussion if there ever was one and I simply don't know if this is possible at all. I might bring the subject up again to our coders and get an answer on it.

That would be great, thank you :)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 03-01-2011, 15:01:57
And with 1s1k FH2 rifles, dropping body is quite good indicator imo. If it doesn't kill, it doesn't really matter was it missed, wounding or not registered hit.
Im sorry but did you just say that it doesn't matter if you hit someone or not, if he didn't die?...  ::)

Indeed. Atleast on longer range. On close range you can see the blood we already have ingame. On loger range enemy most likely takes cover if he notices he's being shot. And even if you hit him and he didn't die, you need to hit him again anyway to get kill.

So what do you do with information that you had a hit? Only thing I can come up with, is that you can pixel shoot at same point to get another hit, but that's exactly what I don't want.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Alakazou on 03-01-2011, 15:01:27
I don't care if the hit indicator will be remove, but never remove the kill message. I love to see who I have kill :)

But, it would be a good idea to try.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2011, 16:01:45
So what do you do with information that you had a hit? Only thing I can come up with, is that you can pixel shoot at same point to get another hit, but that's exactly what I don't want.

pixelshooting with a rifle?  :) you confuse it with arty shelling..

what I do with the information? If I know I hit my enemy with some bullets, and he didn't hit me (and the firefight takes a paus, for example if he withdraws back in to the house from which window he just shot at me) I will go after him, knowing he is in a disadvantage when we encounter eachother again. Im the hunter and he is the prey :)
Throwing out a bandage and suck on it to restore health takes some time in FH2, I can lob a nade in the house, draw pistol or run in and spray like John McLane with my SMG.

And not only is it about what I do with the information if we part, if I fire with rifle and see a hit, and he doesn't die (I see no killmessage) I know I only need to hit him once more for a guaranteed kill. Rifles do not 1s1k all the time in FH2.. So hit indicator allows for a smoother combat flow when you have commited to a fight with an enemy.. these are the milliseconds of gameplay when you and this dude 175m away are having a "stand-off", if I dont even know he got hit, this commitment will feel pointless.

Just look at BC2 hardcore mode, they did it pretty great. No crosshair but you have hit/kill indicator. Often you're "folllowing" (or; leading) enemies as they run over a field and in to bushes, if you have the hit/kill indicator you can perform awesome "drops" where you take down an enemy as he enters in to cover...
Now... mapdesig.. how would you be able to go over and check if the enemy died or not? when he is laying 175meters away behind a bush? His teammates are there and they will kill you, or his corpse will have timed out and disappeared from the world. Why is this good for anything? What would you tell your teammates if you followed an enemy with MG fire in to a bush, if you dont know if you killed him or not" ("uuuuhh.. charge I think,.. I should have killed him.. I guess, I dunno, he disappeared behind the bush..why dont you go and look..")  ;D

@[WaW]hOMEr_jAy.. Im not content with fh2... you dont know.. but Im the least content guy there is  ;) we're working on things, trust me.. one of those things is listening to what players like and dont like, and discuss with them how to improve fh2. as in this thread. 8)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 03-01-2011, 17:01:19
Natty, have you actually tried playing without hit indicator?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 03-01-2011, 17:01:37
Arguing with Natty is totally pointless. It is like emptying a swimming pool with a fork. Except you might actually succeed emptying the pool.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Alakazou on 03-01-2011, 18:01:58
It's so mean ;D
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2011, 19:01:23
Natty, have you actually tried playing without hit indicator?

yes? I wrote a couple of posts up there... I hated it.. it felt like the game was bugging out... I clearly remember tank duels on aberdeen and some other map.. I just sat kind of like playing with one hand, and letting my head rest in boredom in the other hand, elbow on the desk.. just clicking on the enemy tank waiting for him to blow up... and the infantry fights were just like a lottery, no skill, tactic or fun involved at all.

Yea I have tested it... and to even consider that as a default setting makes me shrug.
Then again, I dont decide things alone, could be that we remove them, who knows? 8)

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:PC6orTIXLVuKzM:http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/ARP/ARP124/bored_~tn_bored.jpg&t=1)
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Thorondor123 on 03-01-2011, 19:01:09
You call the computer telling you where to shoot skill and tactic? Come on.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Vicious on 03-01-2011, 20:01:41
I just don't get why you still want kill messages but no hit indicator. That basically negates this affecting tank warfare at all. If the tank blowing up isn't enough. Just go play Duck Hunt or something.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 03-01-2011, 20:01:24
I just don't get why you still want kill messages but no hit indicator. That basically negates this affecting tank warfare at all. If the tank blowing up isn't enough. Just go play Duck Hunt or something.
I don't need kill messages just for confirming kills. As told 100 times before, it's also becouse we like to play with community. What's the point of knowing anyone here if they are just anonymous enemies in game.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 20:01:59
Because you still recognize your teammates ?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Vicious on 03-01-2011, 20:01:16
Any recognition IMO should come at the end of the map. Any community you should be a part of should be ON YOUR TEAM.

And the whole tactics vs strategy discussion. When you affect tanks as well as infantry, you are changing the strategy of the map, not just the tactics. The entire strategy of the map changes when tanks are not expendable because they don't spawn back after 3 minutes or when they can gray a flag without having to move into a 10m radius.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: ajappat on 03-01-2011, 21:01:45
Any recognition IMO should come at the end of the map. Any community you should be a part of should be ON YOUR TEAM.

Beeep. Wrong.

It ain't fun if enemy has no name. I like to kill irishreloaded while he leads hes (awesome) squad. Or killing tank that my clan mate is driving. Or finding out how badly our beloved devs compete against us in their own mod  ;D. Examples go on and on.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Kradovech on 03-01-2011, 21:01:28
Any community you should be a part of should be ON YOUR TEAM.

It should, but most of the time thats not the case. Say I and 10 friends decide to join a server, there is no chance we will be on the same team, it would not be fair. Besides, most FH2 players know a lot of the other players, since we are such a small community.

I would prefer having a ~30 second delay between the actual kill and the kill message, that would be a nice compromise and keep both sides of the argument happy. Its been suggested before, no idea if its possible at all. Of course changing fundamental things like this can have an negative effect on the excisting playerbase.

Hit indicators are a different matter. In my opinion it belongs in bf1942 engine, where you had to lead your enemy a riddiculous amount in infantry combat. In Fh2 it is mostly 1 shot 1 kill anyway with rifles and with smg's the distances are not that far that you would need a hit indicator in the first place and when I blind fire into a hedgerow for example, I don't expect to get some magic indication of hits.
Hit indication for grenades is just stupid, that definitely needs to go. People have always complained about grenade spamming, theres no need to incourage it in such an unrealistic manner.
Only place where I find it useful is the tank vs tank combat - with such an ammount of different tanks as we have, the learning curve would be too steep. We cant expect the palyers to know the armor of all tanks and the pentration values of their guns. I know one freak from Norway who knows things like this by heart, but he's an exeption.

In any case, saying infantry battles require more skill and tactics with the hit indiactors is just silly, the fun aspect can be argued about.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Lainer on 03-01-2011, 21:01:36
   Got to agree with Krad on this one.  In the past (maybe in this very thread) I have been against getting rid of the kill messages.  But a nice delay (30 seconds or more) would be a great deal of fun.  Been playing that other mod more as of late and I really enjoy the chatter that comes from a fire fight when you don't know if you and squad have killed someone.  FH2 just feels to arcade like for me anymore.  Even tourney play has lost its luster for me of late.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 03-01-2011, 22:01:02
Gotta love posters who cant read 2 pages of the topic they are in ... :P
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Atkins on 03-01-2011, 23:01:36
Arguing with Natty is totally pointless. It is like emptying a swimming pool with a fork. Except you might actually succeed emptying the pool.

So i am not the only one who thinks that  :)

And so that this messages won't get deleted again i'll add that, as much as some of us want to either delay or remove death messages totally, it most likely will not happen. Most ppl who have had elevators for 3 years wont go back to using stairs even if they live in the 2nd floor. Vicious' mini-mod might be the answer. Though i am afraid that it will only split the already small player base.

I just don't get why you still want kill messages but no hit indicator. That basically negates this affecting tank warfare at all. If the tank blowing up isn't enough. Just go play Duck Hunt or something.

Some ppl are just so used to the idea that they don't want to pay that much attention what happened to the target they were just shooting if the kill appears as a text in the upper corner of the screen. This is totally understandable for casual gamers who after work just want to let some steam off.

Actually the difference isnt that big when u dont have those messages off cos u still see the ragdoll flying or tank blowing up. Only thing is that you dont know who that was that u killed and that seems to matter some. Anyway it just takes some time to get used to that there arent those messages anymore. Those who own RO/DH, go try to play on those "Realism Modus" servers and u see that after few minutes u arent looking to the edge of the screen for the magic announcement but u start to pay more attention to the sounds and what happens in the screen.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: im_a_lazy_sod on 04-01-2011, 03:01:25
I'd like:

- to know if i've killed someone
- not to know if anyone else has killed anyone else - unless it's TK on my team - don't care about enemy TKs
- not to know where I have been shot from - I have 5.1 headset and this helps a lot figuring out where a shot has come from

TBH (if possible)

I'd much rather know if a tank has been destroyed - rather than if it has been destroyed and it's crew killed to

Imagine thinking you've knocked a tank out with a long range shot, only for it to be that it's crew bailed out to repair and your shot killed them instead and you think you've killed the tank? meanwhile another engineer has waltzed over and repaired it for another crew who knock you out as you turn the corner, expecting a smoldering pile or rubble only to find a fully operational tank who has just shot a round right through you

Scripting may limit this but I think it would help with gameplay - i.e. I'd much rather immobilize/knock out a tank than just kill the crew - another couple guys could easily get back in the tank/repair it whereas if it is knocked out it'd have to respawn
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Vicious on 04-01-2011, 08:01:27
I'd Like:

 -A back rub.
 -Some hot chocolate.
 -10 Hours Hibernation.

Don't mean it's gonna happen. And you can type out all the shit you want but the admins have clearly said it ain't happening so if you want to work on something that is happening click on the link below. Otherwise, I don't know why the admins don't close the thread cause FH ain't doing this and I already know what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: DLFReporter on 04-01-2011, 08:01:24
..Otherwise, I don't know why the admins don't close the thread cause FH ain't doing this and I already know what I'm doing.

Because we don't do things like that around here. Besides, even a pile of dung can contain a diamond and the devs do read the ideas on the forum. :)

A nice blog/homepage layout you got there Vicious, but tell me, why did you call it a "mega"-mod? Are you planing to include stuff from other mods in your work? Like eastern front tanks from BGF?
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Natty on 04-01-2011, 09:01:46
And you can type out all the shit you want but the admins have clearly said it ain't happening so if you want to work on something that is happening click on the link below.

First of all; Admins on this forum is not the same as devs of the mod.
Second; no admins ever said we won't do these changes to the mod.
Third; no devs have said we won't do these changes.
Fourth; devs don't announce mod changes in random public threads
Fifth; the discussion is still on topic and controlled, no need to lock it just because you want guys to read your blog, dont be so obvious  :)
Sixth; this thread is about Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry in FH2, not in a potential add-on.

Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: sn00x on 04-01-2011, 11:01:36
oh snap!  ;D
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Kelmola on 04-01-2011, 14:01:12
My .02€:

Kill messages should stay. In addition to x killed me and I killed x, I like seeing "community kills" if the darned basterd who dared to shoot me gets mortared seconds later. If I want to shoot at and be shot by Anonymous, I could just as well play singleplayer.

Hit indicator. At least it tells me in an early war tank-to-tank fight if I do any damage. You know, the fights where 1s1k is not so likely. Also, without hit indicator, airplanes will RAEP anti-aircraft defenses even more thoroughly than they do now. Plus, for a n00b, the hit indicator is a very good feedback on accuracy against infantry. Regarding its encouragement towards blind-firing and/or into fog, I find the argument shaky. As long as you can use the "looking past target" exploit to grow your view distance 40%, hit indicator is hardly game-breaking.

Yes, hit indicator "tells" you if the blindly thrown Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch found enemies, who, being naughty in My sight, should snuff it, but IRL you would probably hear the screaming of the wounded or something at such close distance; in FH2 everyone stays mute like a morphine-overdosed samurai until at the moment of death you shout an oneliner straight out of Commando comics.

So I think that the hit indicator should stay as well.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Lightning on 04-01-2011, 14:01:02
Why are you all discussing the hit indicator? It's a server variable.

If you want to play without hit indicators join a server that has them disabled or ask your server admin to set
"sv.hitIndicator 0"...
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Beaufort on 04-01-2011, 14:01:08
Hehe, good to know.  ;D

Basicly what says Kelmola is true. That is why we should have TWO hud possible, like two levels of difficulty, and a way to make sure every one has the same on any given server...
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: von.small on 04-01-2011, 18:01:11
edit: Ok so I don't read threads...

What happened to Hardcore mode, that was awesome - especially for filming FPS action frags.  Plus it acctually got rid of all the text message chat bollox, ...

Thanks to FH2 winning MOY (WOOT) the new influx of players means we get an artillery ready request every 5 seconds, and then "FFFFFFFSSSSSS WILLL SOSOSOSOSOSOSOMEEEONE SPOT FOR ME"  then like a fricking text book, 10 seconds after that "where is sniper rifle"


HARDCORE mode, bring it back, stick it in there, make them all play it, they will learn to love it.
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: Vicious on 04-01-2011, 21:01:10

Third; no devs have said we won't do these changes.


and the winner of "least thought-through suggestion of the year" (known as LTTSOTY) goes to.............  ;D

just no. killmessages and hit indicators stay.  8)

Ok maybe I was reading your first post wrong, I thought you said no. :P
It was over 2 months ago, maybe you forgot?
What type of face palm would you prefer?  ;D
Title: Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
Post by: katakulli on 04-01-2011, 21:01:07
Why are you all discussing the hit indicator? It's a server variable.

If you want to play without hit indicators join a server that has them disabled or ask your server admin to set
"sv.hitIndicator 0"...

  I liked that answer so people stop spamming and start to play fh again.  8)