Author Topic: Operation Totalize 64  (Read 19520 times)

Offline [F|H]Uffeh_SWE

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #30 on: 22-09-2009, 21:09:06 »
This map is quite imbalanced IMO.

The Allied airforce doesn't stand a chance vs the Flak Vierlings, FW's AND Wirblewind.
That is transfered to the ground ofcourse as the bomb carrying FW can take out all allied tanks whitout  disturbance.

I'm curious: Why the Wirblewind on top of the Awesome FW, Flak36's and Flak Vierlings?

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #31 on: 22-09-2009, 21:09:37 »
Simply because in testing sessions the planes are flown by the right hand of God himself and it seemed to us that the german panzers are constantly getting their asses pasted all over the pavements whenever they tried to leave their bases... this of course is only my point of view and not anywhere near official reasoning.

I thought the map plays out just fine.

Offline [F|H]Uffeh_SWE

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #32 on: 22-09-2009, 22:09:08 »
If only God had two right hands so they could fly a FW and a Typhoon at the same time...
You'd get another result I promise. ;)

Who is this guy you are talking about? Is it Lightning or w/e he's called?

Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #33 on: 22-09-2009, 22:09:18 »
Its unlikely to be the dreamcrusher.  I doubt that the microwave disguised as his computer is very conductive for god like flying skills.

Offline theUg

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #34 on: 23-09-2009, 02:09:25 »
The Allied airforce doesn't stand a chance vs the Flak Vierlings, FW's AND Wirblewind.
Depends who’s flying. I’ve had rounds where Typhoons positively owned the battlefield. Sitting in the flak usually lasted less than a minute cause allied pilots attacked them on sight (whether there’s someone manning them or not, they just used preventative measures). If you had 2 seconds to get out alive after the cannons whiz all around you, t’ was lucky.

I would actually say that allied planes have leg up. I haven’t flown Typhoon, but, for instance, Beaufighter has superior field of view than Stukas or Messers, and much easier to use zoomed. At least for me.


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Offline NTH

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #35 on: 23-09-2009, 11:09:46 »
If you have played the maps a few times, you'll the positions of the vierlings.
The Spitfire can defend the Typhoons against the FW109's.
Only one left to counter the Typhoons is a well hidden and constantly reocation Wirbelwind.

So yes for me this map is balanced and I enjoy it playing Allied or Axis.


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
(From: First in the Field, Gault of the Patricias by Jeffery Williams, page 72.)

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #36 on: 25-09-2009, 23:09:09 »
Meh, this map is far from balanced. I have played it so many times, with many diffrent teams, and only twice did we won.

First of the allied planes are nothing against this armada. FW190 can outturn any of the planes and are way faster. Then we still have the Wirbelwind, The Flakvierlings, and not to forget the double'd in performance Flak 18. Of wich their are 5 on the map.

Nah, this map really needs a change on the airforces. This map is Very difficult for the allies. Germans win the far majority of the time
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #37 on: 29-09-2009, 09:09:29 »
I don't think the perceived imbalance in this map is so much dependent on the air forces, rather than the strange behaviour of the Canadian team. All too often, they behave like the German team once did in an earlier match (see my comment above).

On several matches I have witnessed, the Canadian offensive goes smoothly, until the Factory and the Windmill have been captured. At this point, still bleeding, the Canadian team goes into defence mode. Apart from a couple of backcappers, nobody seems to make a serious push across the river. (Well, in one match the Canadians did eventually take the artillery battery and the farm - too late to have any effect, and still leaving FlaK battery in their back.)

I have seen this result with both Allied and Axis air superiority. Speaking of which, superiority here is more dependent on pilot quality rather the hardware available. A good FH2 pilot learns where the enemy AA is and tries to neutralize that first before attacking tanks or infantry - nothing is more vulnerable than a plane pulling up from an attack run. Also, the Germans rarely manage to hold all AA positions, so the firepower will be quite equal quite soon.

I am still of the opinion that the air war is in balance, the issue is poor tactics and lack of coordination.

Offline NTH

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #38 on: 29-09-2009, 10:09:20 »
Meh, this map is far from balanced. I have played it so many times, with many diffrent teams, and only twice did we won.

First of the allied planes are nothing against this armada. FW190 can outturn any of the planes and are way faster. Then we still have the Wirbelwind, The Flakvierlings, and not to forget the double'd in performance Flak 18. Of wich their are 5 on the map.

Nah, this map really needs a change on the airforces. This map is Very difficult for the allies. Germans win the far majority of the time

First thing I do is take out the 88 out the factory. This give the tanks the chance to roll in fast.
Second I go for the Vierling at the windmill. The other Vierlings I don't come close too because we need to cap the Factory and Windmill flags first. Other targets of opportunity are tanks and FW109 (if caught off guard).

Really if the Typhoons would have it easier it would be a slaughter for the German tanks.


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
(From: First in the Field, Gault of the Patricias by Jeffery Williams, page 72.)

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #39 on: 30-09-2009, 12:09:56 »
Yes but the problem lies that their are so many Flak38 Flak 18, the wirbelwind and the FW190 that if you dont pay attention for even half a second, ur shot down. Thing is, the Germans can cover their flyboys everywhere on the map. Allies can only keep their planes backed up at the mainbase. That is the reason, why the Allies mostly lose operation totalize. Thats why i first asked that the allies also get their Self-proppelled AA gun, otherwise, having one puny spitfire more, doesnt give a damn.

Operation totalize is good. Very good. I love it, but the allies barely win it.

Also another hint for the allies=Capturing the flak battery and the other flags across the river first is the best strategy imo. I sat in Desert-Rat his squad, in a Hslan squad. And this was the best strategy. I think i played Op totalize 40 times now, and i think the allies won 2-3 times.

Still, it is the best Normandy map. I happily play it, anytime, anyday.
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Offline Die Happy

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #40 on: 30-09-2009, 13:09:52 »
most ting i read here is allied flyboys crying because they got shot down  because there is so much AA on the map.

yes there is much AA on the map but no one seems to care that both sides can use it.
repair the vierlings / 88 at captured flags and use the freshly liberated equipment against their previous oppressors.  what then is left is 1 wirbelwind and the superior FW190.

and yes those AA can be harmfull for the typhonns but they are stactic. fly high make a dive fire 2 rockets and get out. AA destroyed and repairing takes  a few minutes.
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Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #41 on: 01-10-2009, 10:10:15 »
I think people are still adjusting to this one. I can't comment on the plane physics issue, but I noticed a certain German air superiority that seems kinda odd in the historical context.

One of the Vierlings can fire directly at the Nebelwerfer at Artillery battery. I don't know which one it is because I have only seen the rounds incoming, but you certainly should look into that.

Offline NTH

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #42 on: 01-10-2009, 11:10:01 »
Yes but the problem lies that their are so many Flak38 Flak 18, the wirbelwind and the FW190 that if you dont pay attention for even half a second, ur shot down. Thing is, the Germans can cover their flyboys everywhere on the map. Allies can only keep their planes backed up at the mainbase. That is the reason, why the Allies mostly lose operation totalize. Thats why i first asked that the allies also get their Self-proppelled AA gun, otherwise, having one puny spitfire more, doesnt give a damn.

Operation totalize is good. Very good. I love it, but the allies barely win it.

Also another hint for the allies=Capturing the flak battery and the other flags across the river first is the best strategy imo. I sat in Desert-Rat his squad, in a Hslan squad. And this was the best strategy. I think i played Op totalize 40 times now, and i think the allies won 2-3 times.

Still, it is the best Normandy map. I happily play it, anytime, anyday.

My dear Belgium friend you are not listening to what I say. There is one Vierling you should be worried about in the beginning of the map. Take out the one at the windmill and you only have to worry about the wirbelwind.
The other vierling you don't come close too until your mates have taking the factory and windmill flags.

And yes you stand a fighting chance against the FW109, just make sure you get the drop on those guys.

The reason why the Allied don't win this map more often is that they dig in after having captured the first three flags.


Milton Gault roared, "Roffey, I know bloody well that Jerry knows we are here but you don't need to advertise the fact!"
(From: First in the Field, Gault of the Patricias by Jeffery Williams, page 72.)

Offline Kelmola

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #43 on: 01-10-2009, 11:10:57 »
I think people are still adjusting to this one. I can't comment on the plane physics issue, but I noticed a certain German air superiority that seems kinda odd in the historical context.

One of the Vierlings can fire directly at the Nebelwerfer at Artillery battery. I don't know which one it is because I have only seen the rounds incoming, but you certainly should look into that.
At least the Windmill Vierling has a clear LOS to the hill housing the Artillery battery. The Nebelwerfer might be just out of sight (don't remember exactly), but thanks for the tip. I will have to try "walking" the fire across the hilltop, it's bound to hit something eventually ;D

As for the amount of flak, well, this is not Crete where AA guns are locked to one side only. Put to good use in the hands of a new owner, the Vierlings and 88s will keep the skies clear of FW's as well. Generally, the Factory and the Windmill tend to fall very quickly (before the Germans have had time to counterattack), so they could almost be counted as Canadian AA. Also, the FlaK battery on the western side of the river is easier to capture than the Artillery battery (less open ground to cross), so if the Canadians have a decent team, they will end up controlling the majority of AA fire before the halfway of the round.

Offline TheLean

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Re: Operation Totalize 64
« Reply #44 on: 04-10-2009, 15:10:06 »
Altough the Fw190 is a much better dogfighter than the typhoon, as it should be, the new hitboxes makes it easier to kill planes from odd angles than before. You can attack the FW190 from the side and quite easily score hits.

I dont understand the talk about to much german AA. If you fly in the AA zone ahead of the front lines you have to use some commons sense and realise it might not be the most efficient way of surviving in air. If you want to attack behind the frontlines, sneak up in the red no go areas on map where there are no ground forces. The only real treath to allied air on this map is a good pilot in the FW190. He might kill you directly or force you into a dogfight over enemy territory where AA can kill you. All other things such as flak and MGs can be avoided or dealt with by using tactics. Even the whirblewind gunner can be killed relatively easily. If you are able to survive his first attack attempt, you know where he is and you can use that advantage to launch a suprise attack from directly above out of the clouds and kill him with the cannons.

To gain knowledge of enemy flak and AA, move in lines across the map, with 100 meters closer to the front each time. This will often cause the vierlings and whirblewind to fire too early for hitting effectively. Now you know where they are and now you can flank them and kill them. Also, make a ruitine of strafing the 88´s and flak vierlings to constantly keep them destroyed. Often you get a kill as an engineer is trying to repair them.