Omaha Beach 64

[gavrant]

"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"

Minimap:

[x4fun ODIUM]

First impressions:

-Maybe 300 - 500 more tickets for the USA
-Some more shell craters on the beach would help so you can move from cover to cover.
Germans will still have plenty of time to shoot you, but it becomes less frustrating.
-No smoke for the scout kit? Maybe a limited number of scout kits instead?

[Matthew_Baker]

INITIAL<-- (key word) Impressions

I got the chance to play around on this map about 4 or 5 times so far. 4 times with the full 100+ player experience and on both teams. All 4 times resulted in a german win with the allies not being able to get to the second push part of the map. The one time was late tonight with about 30ppl playing and the Americans easily capped out the Germans.

Balance
Map balance is something that nobody can give anything more than a first impression on at this point but I think Odium hit the nail on the head; most of what I've seen and heard in-game gives me the impression that some extra tickets for the Americans can make this map balanced and fun for everyone. And some more defilades on the beach in the form of craters couldn't hurt at all imo.
From what I've seen the Americans have all the assets to grab a foothold on one of the first 3 WNs; SL spawn, ship artillery, smoke, 30cal gunners on the LCVPs. If all these things are used properly the Americans are more than capable of taking hold of a bunker and eventually locking the first sector. From what I've seen the Americans were literally only seconds away from locking that first sector before their tickets ran out. Eventually Americans will find a good system and realize that they need good teamwork to take the first 3 WNs and wont get slaughtered nearly as much in the first phase. But a ticket increase would give them more time to do that and give them time to complete the second part of the map. 

I think time will tell if ONLY a ticket increase is needed to perfect this map. But I def think it's a good place to start

Looks
This is easily one of the best looking maps in FH2

Accuracy
This has to be mentioned because of how amazingly accurate this map is while still having the potential for great gameplay. I think this is one of the best examples of a balance between historical accuracy (literally almost 1:1 scale) and the gameplay to fit that accuracy. The level design on this map is VERY good imo.

Feel
Nothing, I mean nothing, comes close to describing how mind numbingly awesome it is to coordinate a beach assault on a historically accurate Omaha beach map . Not, videos, not screenshots, nothing. You HAVE to be there to get the full experience of this map. SPR obviously wasn't 100% historically accurate but what it did was give you a great 'feel' for that battle and how it played out. I've never seen a game represent that same 'feel' with this amount of historical accuracy and I honestly have to applaud every dev that contributed to this map. This was probably the hardest challange a level designer could face and honestly I believe it's only a few tweaks away from being perfect.     

At the end of the day my first impression is; this map is one of the best things to happen to FH2. I've lost this map twice and gotten killed a millions times without firing off a shot and honestly I've never had more fun doing so almost EVERYBODY who plays a WW2 game wants to assault Omaha Beach. In this way it brings in more casual players, and old vets can't complain about a historically accurate beach landing map Only time will tell but imo this map just needs a bit of fine tuning to turn it into a great map.

Bugs/misc
Some limited kits don't say "limited" in the spawn screen. (American Recon kit for example; also some German kits)

Personally I would add some loud(er) ambient gunfire to the edges of the map on the beach. Kind of like the ambient sounds on Omaha Charlie sector in FH1. 128 players provided plenty of noise; but when player numbers die down and there's only 40 or so people on the server, those ambient sounds might be a big help in 'tricking' the player that there's more people assaulting the beach than there really is. The 'feel' of this map plays a big role in how enjoyable it is imo.

Honestly tho I wanna thank every dev who helped make this map. Mr Cheese, Remick08, Ts4EVER, Stubbfan and anyone else who put time into this, you guys all collectively did a GREAT job imo.
[/asskissing]

I'll keep trying to provide more input and feedback on this as I get more time in.        

[jan_kurator]

About the craters, I would like to see few more as well, but IIRC there weren't any IRL, naval artillery support fail to reach the beach area with its barrage before the initial attack on D-Day.


And AFAIK tickets will be increased in near future, don't worry

[Surfbird]

I personally think the flat beach area without too many craters is quite important. Too much cover or just a few craters too much can easily result in an easier assault at specific parts of the beach. The result would be an assault restricted to specific flanks after people have figured things out.

I also like that the MG emplacements run out of ammo after some time, so the lack of supplies to hold back all the waves landing on the beach is probably quite accurate. Attack quantity therefore brings you further to reach the goals as well. So even multiple times of dying in machine gun fire, brings the US team further. After all I agree with adding some more tickets, but I'd wait and see how it develops in order to define an appropiate amount.

[Slayer]

And AFAIK tickets will be increased in near future, don't worry

I'd be careful to add tickets too soon. Check what was posted when Hurtgen Forest was new, like this, for example:

I have played quite a few rounds on this one, but the US get beaten by ticket-bleed most of the time - that has been _my_ experience so far. The US mostly get to the flag the Germans can't recapture (forgot the name), but the bleed doesn't stop until all flags are capped. I think that's a bit rough. If the bleed stops at said flag, at least then you get to see who's the better team. Nothing is worse than being defeated by ticket-bleed, even though your team is the stronger one. Perhaps something to add there, is when ticket bleed stops at that flag, you could also make it so the Germans _can_ recapture the flag. But that may just result in a stalemate evolving around that flag, which I can understand could be something you don't want.

Don't get me wrong, I like that it's hard for the US to take all those flags, but ticket bleed that doesn't stop until all flags are capped would not have been my personal choice.

Let's wait a while and see what happens when allied learn how to use the ship correctly and make decisions then.

[Matthew_Baker]

Well here in lies the beauty of the launcher and updater I could agree to waiting a little while before giving the US more tickets, because the players need time to figure out how to play the map etc... but if the devs decide to increase the tickets, and then see that its too much and want to decrease it back again, the updater allows them to do that w/o hesitation (if I understand the updater correctly)

About the craters, I would like to see few more as well, but IIRC there weren't any IRL, naval artillery support fail to reach the beach area with its barrage before the initial attack on D-Day.

I figured that might be the case. Honestly I'd like to see this map balanced out in the most accurate way possible, w/o having to add or remove historical elements... there's such a nice balance between gameplay and historical accuracy right now; I'd like to see it preserved while fine tuning the map.  
   

[jan_kurator]

And AFAIK tickets will be increased in near future, don't worry

I'd be careful to add tickets too soon. Check what was posted when Hurtgen Forest was new...

It's much different on Omaha, it's not about being beaten by ticket bleed. You have constant rape from 6 MG nests directed at the beach + PAKs, mortars and tunk turret. American tickets are being drastically reduced because of huge casualties. All my rounds on Omaha haven't lasted more than 15 minutes so far. You want to tell me that after some time, when players will get use to this map, casualties will be significantly smaller? It's not what this map is about. It really needs more tickets for the Allies.


EDIT: I'm not talking about double tickets, but 150% should be ok + what Matthew said. If they will be too much, they can be decreased again easily.

[Rabbit032]

In my opinion just remove the bleed as it only hurts gameplay and isn't needed to make the US push off the beach. The fact that if the US just stays on the beach and tries to shoot it out with the Germans, they will still lose, so bleed or no bleed they will work to get off the beach.

I would also consider making the WN's only takeable by team 2. This will allow players to see more of the level.

I've also noticed a lot of poorly placed statics, think I found around 5 wall sections at the church alone that were not connected properly, they either fell short of reaching the pillar, sticking through the other side or 1 side didn't reach the pillar. Noticed things like this around the map, but the church area is the worst offender. While these dont seem to be exploitable, it looks bad.

With the gameplay changes I said above I think Omahas gameplay would be significantly better.

[Kelmola]

Guys, it's been only two days. Let's wait at least two weeks before making any sudden conclusions.

[Surfbird]

@Rabbit

Removing bleed is not an option. What are the guys fighting for then? They could even hold their spawn for all game and let the destroyer shoot the Germans or so. Practically won't happen like this, but the attacker needs to be set under pressure to take the objectives as quickly as possible. And after the first 3 first flags are capped there is a German-Allied campfest without bleed, without properly pushing up. The bleed forces one team to be active and that'S why the gameplay is good. Remove bleed on any map and you have a random shooter with killcounts, but no battlefield game. No, this is not an option.

You can just balance things by adjusting tickets, no need to remove this key element.

[Slayer]

It's much different on Omaha, it's not about being beaten by ticket bleed.

Jan, don't you see I posted that to prove a point? Point being that making decisions like this in the first week after release is a bad idea?

You want to tell me that after some time, when players will get use to this map, casualties will be significantly smaller?

Yes, I do. The destroyer is a beast, and when allies start using it properly, the WN's, the turret and even the PAKs will be blown away pretty quickly. And that does indeed lower the casualties (significance depending on ship's success).

EDIT: I'm not talking about double tickets, but 150% should be ok + what Matthew said. If they will be too much, they can be decreased again easily.

Yes, but making changes like this every few days will drive everyone mad, so sit back, relax and see for a while how this will develop. Making the change might be a good idea after all, but better make it based on some real experience, and not on just one weekend of gaming.

[jan_kurator]

I'm not talking about changes made too often, of course it will be annoying. I'm just not happy that this very unique map has the same ticket settings like any other map with push code, but I completely understand your point, let's wait and see how it will play out

[MurcDusen]

Are ALL the barbed-wire segments supposed to be destructable? I tried blowing some at the top of the cliffs multiple times, they were never destroyed. Is that because they are supposed to be indestructable? Or could it be that... I don't know... my Bangalores just slid down the hill (is that actually possible? I always had the impression they pretty much stick to the place you throw 'em)?

[Ts4EVER]

One the ones on the seawall.