Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => General Discussion => Topic started by: robert090993 on 31-01-2011, 02:01:55
-
Okay guys,
I have touched this subject before, and i will touch it again ;p.
I spent most my bf2 days on Project Reality, but, i think they have very good competition from this glorious mod here. One thing PR did, was stopped selfish, and noob'ish tactics. Like tk'ing for weapons, stealing vehicles, lone wolfing.
I would like for people to get involved in a little project of mine. To attempt to educate the people committing the offenses, and try to put some tactics and teamwork in to fh2.
What i plan to do, is password a 64 player server,and open it up to people willing to try and use teamwork. It will be a first come, first served event, and will consist of zero Tolerance to people who have come to play it with out teamwork.
This could work, it could fail. Who knows. Post up your thoughts.
Add me on x fire if you are interested in taking part : robert090993
-
An other pr threat? Good luck. 8)
-
Whats wrong with it? Teamwork is a Project Reality invention?.
Be Nice.
And Robert, feel free to test it. If you get a few players, say 25, then i'll find some time to join in, and see whats its like.
Well FH2 already has "Tactics and Teamwork", sadly it doesnt happen too often in Public Servers, and you should find Excellent Teamwork in tournaments, Forgotten Honor (http://www.forgottenhonor.com/) and World at War (http://myinternetservices.com/tournaments/content.php?r=309-world-at-war).
-
A great idea.
That's the funny thing -- people always talk about how there's so much teamwork in Project Reality, but most of the things they describe aren't due to the game itself but the culture of the people that play it.
There isn't really anything inherent in PR that suddenly creates teamwork -- it's the culture the community has created for itself.
All that great teamwork stuff you often find in PR is just as possible in FH2. You just need people to lead efforts to create teamwork. Whenever I play in a squad that uses alot of teamplay in FH2, I have a total blast and wish that it would happen more of the time. Then I get mad at PR players who say that FH2 is just "broken" and doesn't allow for teamwork. Which is total BS of course.
-
A great idea.
That's the funny thing -- people always talk about how there's so much teamwork in Project Reality, but most of the things they describe aren't due to the game itself but the culture of the people that play it.
There isn't really anything inherent in PR that suddenly creates teamwork -- it's the culture the community has created for itself.
All that great teamwork stuff you often find in PR is just as possible in FH2. You just need people to lead efforts to create teamwork. Whenever I play in a squad that uses alot of teamplay in FH2, I have a total blast and wish that it would happen more of the time. Then I get mad at PR players who say that FH2 is just "broken" and doesn't allow for teamwork. Which is total BS of course.
No its not...
I have played in clan on both PR and FH2
FH2 will never be the same teamplay as PR.
-
A great idea.
That's the funny thing -- people always talk about how there's so much teamwork in Project Reality, but most of the things they describe aren't due to the game itself but the culture of the people that play it.
There isn't really anything inherent in PR that suddenly creates teamwork -- it's the culture the community has created for itself.
All that great teamwork stuff you often find in PR is just as possible in FH2. You just need people to lead efforts to create teamwork. Whenever I play in a squad that uses alot of teamplay in FH2, I have a total blast and wish that it would happen more of the time. Then I get mad at PR players who say that FH2 is just "broken" and doesn't allow for teamwork. Which is total BS of course.
No its not...
I have played in clan on both PR and FH2
FH2 will never be the same teamplay as PR.
::) Tell that to the tournament people
-
Just open up a squad and lead the squad with Voip and Orders. Presto! You have teamwork and that on a public server, there is nothing to it and it works 90% of the time.
Just look out for squad names that hint at teamplayers.
-
the problem is not the people who teamplay,but the handfull who dont teamplay stick around in mainbase TK each other for the next plane. Only the bad things are recorded by human kind, the good are left behind and counted as normal.
There is teamplay yes! When puplic game play german forces run over alma halfa and cap all flags without the very last then thats what I call teamplay. and some people just dont want to join a squad. They are good players, forum regulars sometimes, and still they play loonly woolfes. thats their personal desicision. And when people say "ah you cant teamplay" then I say: go open yourself a teamplay squad and lead 5 people to the victory.
@ Server: what will there be different?
-
Lone wolfing is not noobish or selfish, it's the art of war when you alone can stand out against waves of opponents.
Just defending my case, I love sneaking around with a rifle and a Panzerfaust, leaving nothing but destruction.
-
I spent most my bf2 days on Project Reality, but, i think they have very good competition from this glorious mod here. One thing PR did, was stopped selfish, and noob'ish tactics. Like tk'ing for weapons, stealing vehicles, lone wolfing.
None of what you said happens very often on FH2, and lone wolfing is a part of this mod.
-
the main diference between the two mods:
-in one when you request transport the nearby truck (wich is one manned btw) runs away, dumps the truck somewhere in the map, runs and dies 4 seconds later.
-in the other, they back up where you are, pick you up and take you to your squad
guess wich one is what.
-
Just open up a squad and lead the squad with Voip and Orders. Presto! You have teamwork and that on a public server, there is nothing to it and it works 90% of the time.
Just look out for squad names that hint at teamplayers.
This. Making a squad with VOIP and Teamwork ALWAYS attracts people who wanna do it the teamworking way
As for PR. People are FORCED to cooperate. You need to join a squad, you NEED other people to achieve things. Is that bad? no ofcourse not. But it doesnt make PR a better game then FH2. Nor if FH2 better then PR.
PR its primary goal is Realism and teamwork. FH2 primary goals are Historical accuracy and a gameplay wich everyone can play.
-
Yeah ff you just start talking in VOIP almost everyone will do as you say, if they don't just tell them to leave the squad if they won't do as you say. You aren't forced to work as a team like in PR though that is a damn good thing, FH2 already limits Normandy gameplay far too much with the map design IMO.
-
the main difference between the two mods:
-in one when you request transport the nearby truck (which is one manned btw) runs away, dumps the truck somewhere in the map, runs and dies 4 seconds later.
-in the other, they back up where you are, pick you up and take you to your squad
guess which one is what.
Both happens in FH2 you troll.
-
the main diference between the two mods:
-in one when you request transport the nearby truck (wich is one manned btw) runs away, dumps the truck somewhere in the map, runs and dies 4 seconds later.
-in the other, they back up where you are, pick you up and take you to your squad
guess wich one is what.
Trolololo, both things happen in both mods, troll.
When I request transport in FH2, I usually get a lift, in PR I can also get a lift but theres also a big chance they say 'fu u not in my sqaud' or just ignore you completely. Opposite is possible too where the FH2 player says 'screw you, my ride.' and the PR player offers you a ride to the nearby CP.
-
I don't want FH2 to be like PR, ... PR is boring... but I do want to get rid of tards on FH2... Oh wait, most of them came from the MoY results, ... and PR.
True story. ;)
-
I don't want FH2 to be like PR, ... PR is boring... but I do want to get rid of tards on FH2... Oh wait, most of them came from the MoY results, ... and PR.
True story. ;)
We shall be glad that we get new players.. Sure some are smacktarding but they can learn, and pr guys are often very good teamplayers which is very good for fh2
-
Heres my thought on the original post
There are series of things that can be done to improve teamwork. The design is composite in nature i.e. a combination of concepts work together, not by themselves...
1/ Adding 2-speeds on vehicles to give them the option of working alongside infantry
2/ Overhaul of the commo-thing to a commo-rose that encompasses all the basics a person needs including a comprehensive voice over set that allows all said commo-rose options to be verbal, including taunts, audible command calls and a clear distinction between voice over and radio over and who has which
3/ More assets for the commander
4/Using the single tanker kit next to each tank and the repair kit next each AT gun cause internal repairs of tanks, so that other crew in the tank will see reason to use them. Limit cap speed for repair to avoid exploits.
5/ A different view point for arty so that arty gunners can understand spots in context
6/ Support for VOIP, eg. FH2's own version of Mummble and an easy guide to using it
7/ A better system for suppression fire, to include camera shake and bullet-level blur to aid more use of suppress/ flank infantry tactics.
8/ Longer firefights - Be it deviation or sway, or whatever the devs want to use to rationalize it, regular GIs didn't have the kind of perfect aim we have ingame, and it would make for realistically long firefights. Currently, I don't think its so.
to mention but a few.
-
This is a Thread about Teamwork, not PR v FH2.
I don't mind having a Public Teamwork Server.. but sometimes i need a break from Teamwork and i just, lonewolf or go Hero with a Tiger or something.
-
One thing PR did, was stopped selfish, and noob'ish tactics. Like tk'ing for weapons, stealing vehicles, lone wolfing.
Tk'ing for weapons or stealing vehicles aren't really tactics. With these there'd be no reason to keep even playing. Obeying rules is a basic.
The very next question is about goals. I mean what are the goals for the average player in PR, what are the goals in FH2? Is it to win the map and to reduce the tickets to zero, for personal score or for acting together as a squad?
Let me elaborate this: I admit I do not pay the same attention to all of these points. For me it is most important to win the map, and personal score and obeying squadleader orders are subdued to this. If only I can prevent a flag from being capped by departing my squad, I will do for the time needed until my squadleader offers a even more attractive task. I think that is the biggest no-no on a PR server.
In my view FH2 public gameplay got a different approach on teamplay. Nobody is forced, thus squadleaders have to tease their members into gameplay(teamplay), which is not an easy job either. However it requires expirience. And it might fail more often in actually achieving teamplay.
I'd really like to suggest you post on the PR forums either, because you might actually find a lot of players there who are interested in exporting the PR idea of gameplay onto other mods and scenarios like WWII and FH2. Then you might get together enough people, because the FH2 crowd barely fills more than one or two servers. People join the most populated ones and care less about gameplay details and not at all about locked servers.
-
Stealing vehicles are bad, and TK for weapons/vehicles are extremely bad, and should be punished as strict as possible. But if anyone wanna be a lone wolf, let him. Sometimes all the reasonable squads are full, and you may only join 1 stupid squad, or youre simply too tired to really be a good squad player. Or you wanna snipe or do other tactical good actions which only require one player. To be punished for beeing alone would be ridiculous.
-
I'd be up for it, sounds like fun. This would prove whether it's the mentality of the players or the mod. We could learn alot.
-
Maybe it's just me and my friends, but we set up a squad in a coop server where we manned the supply lines and artillery for Villers Bocage. The SL and I (engineers) rode around in the supply truck repairing and rearming the Tigers and Stugs, while the rest of the squad grabbed the Wespe and Stuka Zu Fuss and parked in a defensible position behind our front lines and hit whatever the other players spotted.
-
Teamwork isn't needed when you have 128 players 8)
-
Teamwork isn't needed when you have 128 players 8)
Yes it is. If anything, 128 just highlights bad tactics (eg: driving a 52 low and slow into a wall of Boforses).
-
...or taking an eight seated truck and leaving seven comrades waiting for a new truck to spawn
-
Teamwork isn't needed when you have 128 players 8)
Yes it is. If anything, 128 just highlights bad tactics (eg: driving a 52 low and slow into a wall of Boforses).
I was there LOL.
Btw 128 = WAY more teamwork than before
-
Teamwork = Win
I hate when players jumping in a Fireteam named "Teamwork" and drive tanks in completely different direction. If you are going on your own, why are you wasting a spot? >:( ;D
-
Yes, teamwork = win, but in FH2 it is also choice = win and everyone has their "me time" occasionally.
Vive la difference.
-
...or taking an eight seated truck and leaving seven comrades waiting for a new truck to spawn
I think giving trucks/light vehicles a warm-up time before they can move (like the tanks, engine getting turned on etc) for a second or two may help to circumvent this. At least them people will have a chance to try and get in the truck, if the driver wants them in or not.
-
Heres my thought on the original post
There are series of things that can be done to improve teamwork. The design is composite in nature i.e. a combination of concepts work together, not by themselves...
1/ Adding 2-speeds on vehicles to give them the option of working alongside infantry
2/ Overhaul of the commo-thing to a commo-rose that encompasses all the basics a person needs including a comprehensive voice over set that allows all said commo-rose options to be verbal, including taunts, audible command calls and a clear distinction between voice over and radio over and who has which
3/ More assets for the commander
4/Using the single tanker kit next to each tank and the repair kit next each AT gun cause internal repairs of tanks, so that other crew in the tank will see reason to use them. Limit cap speed for repair to avoid exploits.
5/ A different view point for arty so that arty gunners can understand spots in context
6/ Support for VOIP, eg. FH2's own version of Mummble and an easy guide to using it
7/ A better system for suppression fire, to include camera shake and bullet-level blur to aid more use of suppress/ flank infantry tactics.
8/ Longer firefights - Be it deviation or sway, or whatever the devs want to use to rationalize it, regular GIs didn't have the kind of perfect aim we have ingame, and it would make for realistically long firefights. Currently, I don't think its so.
to mention but a few.
Point by point:
1) Completely disagree, sorry. I'd use the faster speed any time. And if I want to stay together with the supporting infantry I'd go "move-stop-move-stop", because, honestly, it is just too easy to hit a slowly moving tank in this game. So you need to make sudden moves to stay alive. We still might try to get back to the idea of driver/gunner tanks on SOME maps, though...
2) Totally agree
3) Totally agree
4) Definitely no for internal repairs. Dedicated "driver" kits could be a good solution for the TK problem and camping for tanks, since only the person with the kit can have it. So the next person in line (i.e. picked the last "tanker" kit) will be the one to drive the next spawning tank
5) Arty is fine as it is. The uber top view is compensating for the indestructibility of statics.
6) Agree
7) Agree
8) I'd vote for different measures, like: supression caused by ALL types of weapons, no hit indicator, delay for kill messages
Teamwork isn't needed when you have 128 players 8)
Yes it is. If anything, 128 just highlights bad tactics (eg: driving a 52 low and slow into a wall of Boforses).
I was there LOL.
Btw 128 = WAY more teamwork than before
I was really surprised by the immense level of teamwork in the 126 servers. But I don't know what is the reason - PR players or just the numbers...
-
Hi guys, I haven't been around these parts in awhile but this thread has inspired me to vomit my two cents. Nice to see you all btw.
The OP's gripe about teamwork in FH2 is nothing new. Back in FH1 there was a continuous bitch about this and that with teamwork. You'll find it in every video game community in existence where the people who make it up have the ability to play in teams and want to play as a team. It's not some problem with FH.
The difference here in this thread, as was pointed out is degenerating into a PR vs FH argument and it has nothing to do with either mod at the core of the discussion.
PR funnels it's players into a game play style which damn near forces you to cooperate with it, thus forcing you into constructed teamwork.
FH says "Here, look at all these things we made for you, now go fight with them."
You can appreciate the historical accuracy of what the FH devs have done, but because a weapon is modded accurately doesn't mean the person using it in game will use it historically accurately. Just because I launch and play PR instead of FH or any other game for that matter doesn't suddenly change this reality either.
The simple answer given in the past is the same and true here,OP. If you want real good teamwork and team play that is rewarding and giving you the experience you are looking for, FH offers many tournaments and has a community filled with clans who care about the same things you do. You will never find what you are looking for in pub games with disconnected pub players.
-
Want more teamwork?
1) Join a Clan
2) Join an organized tournament
3) Create a squad, invite all to join a squad by telling others it it team oriented, etc; kick whoever isn't up to your standard of what a sqaud should be.
Here in North America, we usually have problems getting enough people on a daily basis. However, when I join the full servers (Europe) during the day, there is always a squad or two that is organized. More players in NA first; then we'll have large enough teams to strategize en masse. It's hard to follow VOIP orders in German or French, lol.