Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: Potilas on 29-04-2013, 20:04:33
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If attackers havent got sector before 15-20min, then they lose.
Peace.
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Elaborating with some examples why you feel so would be helpful. You can't really discuss it when there is no basis to start with. So take a few more minutes and tell why you think this should be added in detail with some kind of argumentation if possible ;)
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I believe the factor of time is built into the ticket bleed algorithm. Tickets bleed far faster for the attackers if no flags have been capped for example. I'd imagine this is the same if they haven't capped out a sector.
Sooooo, what you suggested is already in the mod. Unless...?
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Tickets always bleed at the same rate, except when a side has no flags at all.
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Elaborating with some examples why you feel so would be helpful. You can't really discuss it when there is no basis to start with. So take a few more minutes and tell why you think this should be added in detail with some kind of argumentation if possible ;)
Ramelle for example. When attacking team is stuck around the bridge it is merciful end the round than continue 100% fail. St Vith, Brest and PDH sometimes occur round lasting stalemate what would be wise to whistle of.
I think majority would like that round ends when conditions become impossible to win. Even with balanced teams new element would not harm sector push. Defenders gain extra victory possibility what fight for than always kill enemys to the last man/ticket.
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Tickets always bleed at the same rate, except when a side has no flags at all.
So flag value doesnt have any impact on bleeding speed?
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Nope
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And that's one of the problems I see with the current full-on-attack maps. You can have occupied almost the full map and still lose by a few hundred tickets. I understand the idea behind this to a certain extend but it gives alot of maps this all-or-nothing feeling.
Though to rebalance this stuff would take alot of time and I would rather see eastern front released until we get up to this nitpicking stuff. ;)
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Sounds like lockdown from RO 2... I didn't really like that feature... it was very pointless on some maps, the attackers sometimes just need a little time or a lucky break to get the ball rolling.
But this really isn't fixing the real problem, and that is "why is it so impossible to organize a coherent attack in FH 2?" Is it the player mindset, the lack of communication, the lack of tools? Is it the fact that it takes someone to be playing the role of a totally passive and useless walking spawnpoint? Think about it for a second...
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^ I agree with that. Problem is: you won't change the players mindset, FH2 mumble has nearly nobody using it (I checked twice yesterday) and the SL system is vBF2 style. Now I don't want the PR system in FH2 but at least the Squad leader there does not feel like "a totally passive and useless walking spawnpoint" as it is in FH2. I often play squad leader when I play Forgotten Hope 2. Partially because I want to be in the squad with McKnight and partially because McKnight is the worst SL ever. He always rushes in and sometimes gets pretty good score and caps a few flags but he dies much too often. As SL, you can't allow that to happen so I stay back and try to not get killed all the time. In the end, you are just sitting in a corner near the flag giving your squadmates the opportunity to cap it. That is good for teamplay but the SL gets bored pretty soon and at the end of a game it looks like he has done nothing at all because he does not even recieve help points for whatever contribution he did.
Sorry for the off topic but that had to be said without opening a new thread.
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@thread:
This just totally depends on the team balance and the specific game. Sometimes attackers fail to attack for hours but manage to break through in the end and the win is deserved becasue they actually managed to break a tough defense.
In other situations the defenders do a good job and still lose because the attackers have too many tickets, but it can also happen that the defenders win because it's too hard to take the final flags, a time limit would be unfair for the attackers then.
Short: The poblems are way to diversified to change something about it. A big part depends on the skill of the team and on the map, a time limit would help in 1 out of 5 times, and do worse in like 3/5 times. It's all fine imo and rebalancing whole mas and assets due to this isn't worth it.
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Theoretically you could do this by adding attacker tickets every time a stage is taken on sector push (and of course giving them fewer tickets to begin with).
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But it is a fine margin and not that easy to balance if you ask me. To make it possible but not too easy and keep the attackers taking the intiative. If you balance this stuff wrong you get something like PeB. The attacker only needs two flags there to stop the bleeding and can just concentrate on raping inf with the tank thus winning by kills. Commander Arty does the rest.
Difference is that it is not a full-on-attack-map but a normal pushmap. It is a quite complex topic after all and needs good testing if it gets tweaked.
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Truthfully, I think it is way more important to change Sector Push to allow counterattacks than it is to start fucking with time limits for certain sectors. The Germans failing to take the last two flags on Falaise for 45 minutes is far less annoying than the fact the Canadians aren't allowed to attack.
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Falaise is just a big fail in 2.45 anyway and needs improvements/a rollback to the pre 2.45 version for the next patch. Someone *cough* pulled on the sector push mode on this map though it was not designed for it. This map is just too small to allow static gameplay. And this has noting to do with our 64+ player server. Even with the intented player count this map gets annoying as hell.
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Theoretically you could do this by adding attacker tickets every time a stage is taken on sector push (and of course giving them fewer tickets to begin with).
Im ready to go with counter offer. Time limits could feel too much of forcing. FH2 game world is free and loose.
In PR they have capture bonus for the flags, so it can be done. I think Ts4EVER proposal is worth of testing how it plays out in sector push mode.
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There could be a lot of reasons why these maps are failing. I know on some of them, when we are pushed into our assholes and trying to find a way to flank or break through the enemy line, there are times when the out of bounds prevents us from using an avenue of approach.
Sometimes there is not enough weapons for support, or weapons are too difficult to employ for their purposes (the clumbsy feel of automatic rifles is a good example).
Sometimes there are flags where static objects are placed in such arrangements, and flag zones are so small, that players are forced to run through bottle necks which are easily defended, and capture flags which any skilled mortar man can quickly clear with a single round.
There is a lack of control on most FH2 servers. Its very vanilla, where players are going off in groups of 1 to 2 people and by luck or the hand of god are breaking through lines.
I hate squad leader spawns. As much as I hate to put it like that, but when you are trying to press an advantage, one man bailing out of a jeep in the sector will spawn in a whole crowd of reinforcements rendering your hard won minor victory void.
A whole array of things.
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Push mode itself is a fail.
You cannot expect this to work on a game that heavily depends on teamwork and personal skill.
If say, a team is smart enough to divert their players into the open flags, there is no possibility for attacking team(if not well organized) to capture one of them and run to the other one.(Usually there will retards who camp with their vehicles instead of helping capture, so you're doomed)
If you want this to become working, you should open like 3 flags, and when attackers capture a single flag(or two), it's theirs. Time to move onto the next one. Group of flags means defenders can recapture, which is I think is not a logical thing in warfare. It's like capturing the docks before capturing the Red square, if you know what I mean.
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^ It's logical if you think about it Erwin, it's called counterattack before the enemy digs in to reclaim the lost position, stall the enemy advance and regain the initiative.
Push mode works, but it instantly becomes harder for the attackers to a advance if they don't focus on a single flag. On the other hand when they break through a sector defenders have no choice but to retreat. However push mode (coupled with increased player limits on popular servers and certain server rules with flags that are badly spaced out) means that the attackers have very few choices of flanking the defenders and are instead forced to bash their heads against an unmovable wall for prolonged periods of time, which isn't really enjoyable for anyone.
Tl, dr. Push mode works, some maps are still badly balanced, we shouldn't be going off our experiences with 80+ players because the maps weren't designed for that anyway.
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It works on maps which were designed for that like Hurtgen Forest and St. Vith. These maps are big enough and offers enough space to fight for. On these maps some players more than 64 aren´t a gamebreaker.
You can find more problems on smaller maps like Battle of Brest or Tunis or on maps on which this mode was implemented after other modes prooved for a lot of patches like Falaise Pocket, Supercharge, Purple Heart Lane, Bardia just to mention a few examples.
I said it before, but the Push mode (and the full on attack mode) are not the holy grail of game design.
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Push mode was introduced to avoid people breaking gameplay by sneaking to the back and achieve a "breakthrough" as sitting in behind and waiting for a guy to sneak through for defenders isn't fun at all and the fun is to get into action in front. If you like, you can think of it as playing in a different battle setup when a flag is captured, which is essentially equivalent to how a push mode gameplay is played.
I would love to come back to FH2 one day. I got addicted to voice comms and I hope the next version will feature voice comms.