Author Topic: Deepwater Horizon  (Read 5661 times)

Offline Oddball

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #60 on: 24-06-2010, 02:06:23 »
So, just read an update, did not have many details yet but it basicly said 2 people died and they had to remove the 'cup' that was catching the oil for recovery and it is now running in to the ocean completely free. I wonder what happened.
I heard a robot knocked the cap off.... :-\ So now it's spilling worst than it ever has....http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/23/4552602-bp-preparing-to-reinstall-leak-cap

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #61 on: 24-06-2010, 10:06:10 »
I'd facepalm but all of this is so much fail that even a facepalm wouldn't be enough to show how much fail this is.  Got to love them using the same techniques as in the 70's and all, you'd have expected a large advance in spill prevention (safety) systems, methods to seal of a major spill and operations to clean the mess up (if only a ton of booms that allow for some proper booming and a few hundred proper "vacuum cleaners" -those arms that suck in oil off the surface - , we got around 20+ of those for the small Dutch coastline, by this account the US should have a thousand or so...


^ Having a hundred of those things deployed in days after the events  would have been very helpful I'd say...

In an interview with one of the directors of a Dutch company who builds these devices (on demand, all devices they had in stock belonged to the Dutch engineer corps "rijkswaterstaat") he says that "If they'd had six arms (2x3) in action shortyl after the incident, no oil would have had to spill on the coastline, containment would have been a simple job. With 6 arms you can clean up about 8.000-10.000 cubic meters of oil in 7 hours. ".  (...) "The US has known about these devices for over 20 years, but at the time there was no demand for these devices. But now there is an emergency they are screaming bloody murder.  The US also isn't used to calling in foreign assistance/help. They can reach the moon and mars, but when it comes to oil cleanups they are a development country. " Source: http://www.refdag.nl/achtergrond/techniek/olie_vegen_op_het_water_1_485109 

Even if we read this as propaganda/advertising by the company, it does highlight a point. If they had several dozens of these things scattered around the coastline (so 2-3 pair of arms could be deployed in 1-2 days after a spill, more being flown in in the following days) it really would have helped with containment. But hey, such things would have needed an investement and lowered profits...   ::)
« Last Edit: 24-06-2010, 10:06:47 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #62 on: 24-06-2010, 10:06:56 »
Having a hundred of those things deployed in days after the events  would have been very helpful I'd say...

Not necessarily I read somewhere, that the wast majority of the oil stays at lower depths due to pressure effects in the deep sea. That's why sealing the leak is the only thing that will help at this stage.
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Offline [130.Pz]S.Lainer

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #63 on: 24-06-2010, 10:06:31 »
I started watching this hours ago.....It has gotten much worse.

http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/23/4552602-bp-preparing-to-reinstall-leak-cap

The south is fucked.  Of course I hope this helps the fishermen up here.  Woot!  Go oil spill!
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Offline Oddball

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #64 on: 24-06-2010, 18:06:41 »
@ Donutz, the Dutch(?) and other nations offered their assistance to president obama, but he refused it.....go figure....http://www.care2.com/news/member/362859877/1621178
« Last Edit: 24-06-2010, 18:06:42 by Oddball »

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #65 on: 24-06-2010, 19:06:54 »
The US authorities (coast guard and such) has been extremely slow to respond to foreign offers to help out. Might be partial national pride ("we are a modern nation, we shouldn't/don't need foreign assistance... never mind that we lack some much needed equipement and expertise in this field but we can't admit that too openly") and a very slow bureaucratic system which does things by the book and has to deal with (inperfect) laws and legislation rather then putting that all aside for a moment and simply doing what needs to be done and fill in the paperwork at a later stage or any BS legal problems such as that pathetic Jones Act that makes it pretty much impossible for foreign organisations to help out.

Such as the equipement we offered (it was put on standby pretty soon after the news of the spil came out), yet it took weeks for the US authorities to accept this offer and give the green light to fly the equipement (and experts) in. I thought that the equipement was being leased to the US but apparantly they bought the equipement from the Dutch authorities (Rijkswaterstaat aka engineering korps) by taking it all over and paying the Dutch authorities to replace these tools.

Though this is old news, these complaints came within weeks after the incident. Still reading through that link you posted but it seems like it covers pretty much what I posted a bunch of pages back ago about. Unless Obama has recently personally interveined to stop/halt foreign involvement (which would be rather ackward). But it sounds more like an unflexible US goverment with various officials, congress, white house administrations to blame for it. Doubt the situation would have been much better with any other president or congress in power (be it D, R or "independant" like libertarians).
« Last Edit: 24-06-2010, 20:06:32 by Admiral Donutz »

Offline Oddball

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #66 on: 24-06-2010, 20:06:56 »
I don't know.... this whole thing seems like a joke, a president with any concern for "the environment", like obama boast he does;  would surely take any help he could get if he was really for the best interest of the U.S. and the world.....They got to learn when to put the 'rules' aside and use some common sense. If they had a president which had enough balls to do this, and say screw the books, lets do what we need to do to fix this problem, whether he/she be Republican, Democrat, Independent, or another minor party, then something may be getting done to help resolve the problem. But no, as of now, the problem is only intensifying and anything that is being done to help the problem, president obama is canceling for one petty reason or another.......It honestly seems like he is trying to maximize the destruction of this disaster as much as he can. One of the governors from the southern states was creating sand traps to contain the oil, however, obama told him to cease, because it was too close inland. Then you have that incident with the U.S. Coast Guard and the barges that were being sent to the scene -- that were capable of vacuuming the oil, and draining the water with a 98% efficiency rate -- although, obama made the Coast Guard halt them to "check and make sure they had all the necessary safety equiptment." Really? Really? What is more important....

Offline Admiral Donutz

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #67 on: 24-06-2010, 21:06:11 »
From the page you linked to:

Quote
"Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.

It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.

The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: “The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,'” said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston.

Now, almost seven weeks later, as the oil spewing from the battered well spreads across the Gulf and soils pristine beaches and coastline, BP and our government have reconsidered.

U.S. ships are being outfitted this week with four pairs of the skimming booms airlifted from the Netherlands and should be deployed within days. Each pair can process 5 million gallons of water a day, removing 20,000 tons of oil and sludge.

At that rate, how much more oil could have been removed from the Gulf during the past month?

That proposal, like the offer for skimmers, was rebuffed but later accepted by the government. BP has begun paying about $360 million to cover the costs. Once again, though, the Jones Act may be getting in the way. American dredging companies, which lack the dike-building expertise of the Dutch, want to do the work themselves, Visser said." -  http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html

Though before anyone goes and accuses me of natural pride (lol), it has to be said that the Belgiums have a fair bit of expertise too. And it's possible other nations have expertise that could be useful. But if it has to do with water (sea) and dikes (levies) technology  the Dutch rank pretty high.

What should have been done, if there was a proper emergency schedule that dicates guidelines on what to operate by, would be to make a quick assement including a worst case scenario. And acting upon that worst case scenario at first. Experience from previous spills should have provided quite a clue as to how bad (extensive)  a spill can be.  A dozen ships with modern oil skimming devices should have been sent on route, more put on standbye, booms should be put on standbye and be ready to  protect a large portion of the coastline (asell as being properly deployed, a single boom is rather useless...) and so on. When it became apparant that oil was heading for the marches the option to temporary build a levy should have been ready to be executed and perhaps already be partially put into action. Etc. etc.

Sure there is the risk that the oil leak would be less massive or could quickly be resolved, but going be the "least worst case scenario"  to act  just incase you're lucky is too much of a gamble. Sure, some people would complain about money being wasted, and to an extend this might be true. Say it was expected to be a very minor leak with little oil spilled (which could have been removed by 1-2 ships with ease) and quickly sealed off witin a week or so,  people would be pissed if you sent in a hundred ships and deployed thousands of people...  Though I doubt they'd easily overestimate a disaster by a a massive scale.

Quote
One of the governors from the southern states was creating sand traps to contain the oil, however, obama told him to cease, because it was too close inland.
Huh? To close inland?
As far as the safety equipement goes... that's a bit confusing aswell, don't they use these bargings for other operations and excersises?  Or have these barges and their equipement been rotting away in some harbour for years with little or no activity and thus be in extremely poor condition (that would be epic fail right there, not maintaining equipement)  and thus having a good chanche that these vessels could end up in a very dangerous situation (collapsing apart, sinking, exploding, you name it)?

Offline siben

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #68 on: 06-07-2010, 12:07:12 »
Yaay for another picture


Looks like a dead burned whale. Wonder how that happened.

And then i read this, witch explained so much for me and the reaction of the US goverment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/04/AR2010070403632.html?hpid=topnews

Offline Stefan

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #69 on: 06-07-2010, 12:07:53 »
so are there any plans to stop it? maybe its time to call the russians and nuke it shut, i would be all for that.
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Offline Nerdsturm

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #70 on: 06-07-2010, 16:07:38 »
Yaay for another picture
[img]
Looks like a dead burned whale. Wonder how that happened.
Rotting flesh can blacken like that normally, it doesn't imply anything unusual killed it.

Here's another random dead whale that shows the same phenomenon:
http://www.daydream.ca/images/Dead%20Whale%20-%20Isla%20San%20Jose%20(13).JPG

Offline siben

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #71 on: 06-07-2010, 16:07:17 »
Yaay for another picture
[img]
Looks like a dead burned whale. Wonder how that happened.
Rotting flesh can blacken like that normally, it doesn't imply anything unusual killed it.

Here's another random dead whale that shows the same phenomenon:
http://www.daydream.ca/images/Dead%20Whale%20-%20Isla%20San%20Jose%20(13).JPG

Yes, i know, black means dead and rotting tissue, have seen it more then enough times IRL on living people  but in your pic it looks completely different. It is in spots with skin falling off, in my pic it is only above the waterline, it is 1 big spot and no loose pieces, just a scorched piece of skin that looks very similar to fire damage. Also, on my pic the left front fin is just burned away. And it is missing all the other sings of rotting like the brown colouring.

Conclusion, Its a dead whale that could have died of age, sickness, poisoning or fire. Probably a combination. Fire could have been post mortum (what i think is the case) My bet goes on dead by poisining (oil, or the other poisions the oil is putting into the sea like arsenic.) afterwich a cleanup crew first gathered oil and dead animals and put it on fire to get rid of it.
« Last Edit: 06-07-2010, 16:07:40 by siben »

Offline siben

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #72 on: 07-07-2010, 11:07:11 »
So, what happened yesterday? The us coast guard made it a Clas D felony to take pictures, or come withing 20 meters of the oil spill. If you break these rules you face a 40 000 dollar fine and up to 5 years in prison.

Yaay for the land of the free!

link's:
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/7179/milieu/article/detail/1129945/2010/07/07/Journalisten-die-over-olieramp-berichten-riskeren-vijf-jaar-cel.dhtml

And extra for dutch speaking people:
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/7179/milieu/article/detail/1129974/2010/07/07/27-000-oliebronnen-in-Golf-al-tientallen-jaren-genegeerd.dhtml

Offline Stefan

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Re: Deepwater Horizon
« Reply #73 on: 07-07-2010, 12:07:17 »
"It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate and fear, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms."

Offline siben

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