Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Suggestions => Topic started by: Strat_84 on 14-09-2009, 00:09:39
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I don't know why the way planes behave changed between 2.15 and 2.2, but now I have to tell that I find them completly broken.
In 2.15 everything wasn't perfect (landing without damage was very hard, even for an experienced pilot) but the global feeling was realistic.
Now the planes are just like Tie fighters in space. Too fast, far too manoeuvrable, and absolutely impossible to stall. I tried the spitfire IX once, it just took off after 3 meter of runway just like it had boosters.
I also saw a Me109 turning 270° with a few meters radius (which is impossible with most of the planes, and especially with that one), and a Ju87 diving right and left, so that the bofors just below couldn't even follow its movement !
Please, bring the planes back as they were, flying is no more a pleasure now. :-[
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Flying has been a forgotten art since the mod was released anyways. the lack of external views makes them hard to fly, and even harder to not crash. But this thread will just turn into another debate over such things.
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I don't know why the way planes behave changed between 2.15 and 2.2, but now I have to tell that I find them completly broken.
Now the planes are just like Tie fighters in space. Too fast, far too maneuverable, and absolutely impossible to stall. I tried the spitfire IX once, it just took off after 3 meter of runway just like it had boosters.
Although it is impossible to actually create "stall" (AKA gravity, BF2 is hard coded not to have it) I whole heartily agree.
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I can see why the devs slowed the planes down, but all the other physics I do not like.
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I think rudder effect has to be toned down a bit.
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i really think they should increase the landing damage, i landed at a very high angle and somehow didnt crash also - i was one fire..
It should be updated...really..
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I must say that the Focke Wulf seemed to turn on a dime, I flipped it over and was bearing directly back down on the target I'd just strafed giving the no time to even gauge what just hit them.
Are the new physics geared up for mouse flyers? The planes seem really easy to fly with a mouse, when I use a joystick it turns a regular aircraft into a death plane.
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Flying on Op. Totalize is a like taking a warm bath with champagne and some entertaining women.
Flying on the Africa maps is ...is becoming more challenging for lack of better words.
Yesterday played two rounds on El Alamein. Some say it was because of better hitboxes, some even said the BF109 flies faster now, but I kept feeling like a Stuka when flying over tanks. I got shot three times and all three were done by tanks.
And let me tell you I was taking evasive manoeuvres like a KKK member in the Bronx.
Having said that I enjoy a warm bath as much as a new challenge :D
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I must say that the Focke Wulf seemed to turn on a dime, I flipped it over and was bearing directly back down on the target I'd just strafed giving the no time to even gauge what just hit them.
;D I did that to the Southernmost flag on Totalize the other day. I would just strafe it, pull an Immelman Loop (Half loop then half roll, to gain altitude, change direction, and level out) then dive and strafe it again. I eventually fell prey to the enemy Spitfire because I lost my situational awareness when I got to into the "routine."
Anyway, I don't really know what to say about the new plane physics. I mean, I liked the old physics, but I like the new ones as well. I does seem like the planes are more maneuverable now (or at least more sensitive), for example, you can pull off a full Aileron Roll (I.E. the Star Fox "Z or R twice" Barrel Roll) much faster now. I guess the Devs and Betatesters liked the planes better this way, or else they wouldn't have changed them, right?
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Flying is easier and that is what i don't like, now it makes noobs look so good.
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I fly IL-2 1946 and that is a Flight Sim, BF-2 and in fact the entire BF series the airplanes were never modeled to Flight Sim characteristics, however I agree with most of you. I think the planes are way to fast for the size of the maps. You really have to keep an eye on the minimap to keep from leaving the battle, and since I have an X-52 HOTAS I have a more complete control configuration and yet it's still more difficult to fly in FH than it is in any of my sims and it's one of the first things I checked out after installing. I think that flight models could be slowed a little, made less sensitive, and it would be great if the aircraft were allowed a bit broader map area before punishment takes place though it might not be possible in the game engine.
Sometime I'll post some pics from my Falaise Pocket mission I created for Winds of War Server in IL-2
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I think that their needs to be some tuning down here. The planes accelerate to their top speed in a few seconds, they can take off after a mere seconds.The stuka climbs like a bloody English Electric -Lighting plane with its full afterburner....
The spitfire turns so fast, that it starts to lag
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I love them right now, flying on Totalize feels balanced. I don't get the feeling that when I press E next to a plane it's the same as just dying but with a long adrenline filled spawntime. Now I don't fear them fully while on the ground and in the air I don't fear the grounddwellers fully. It's balanced for me.
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I liked the old physics, but I also like the new ones since it makes more sense for the game. BF2 maps are just too small to have proper handling planes, so they will inevitably be arcadish. Even FH1 flight physics felt more realistic, but that engine was able to model gravity and acceleration much better than the BF2 engine.
In the end, it is all about scaling. The exaggerated plane physics fit better to the scale of BF2 maps, etc.
However, I would like to see tank hull and coaxial machine guns do less damage to planes.
Although it is impossible to actually create "stall" (AKA gravity, BF2 is hard coded not to have it) I whole heartily agree.
When I saw you were added to the betatest team, I was expecting you to comment on the new plane physics since you seem to mostly fly planes. I was surprised when I never noticed you saying anything against or in favor of the new system.
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I also liked the old physics better. TIE fighters was a good comparison. I never had problems landing in 2.15 either, so I don't know why the landing aspect would be changed.
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I also liked the old physics better. TIE fighters was a good comparison. I never had problems landing in 2.15 either, so I don't know why the landing aspect would be changed.
The landing aspect changed with the plane physics, which were intentionally made to make flying easier for new people and to fit planes on Normandy maps. With the old physics you almost flew from one side of the map to the other while turning the FW.
I guess it's just personal preference at this point if you like it or not.
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why does everyone think the planes got faster
THEY GOT SLOWER COMPARED TO 2.15
they are just more agile and seem to reach their topspeed faster.
sure it is not perfect but i guess in BF2 WW2 planes will NEVER be perfect or close to what they were in FH 0.7. thats just engine limitations.
be sure the work on the planes continues, but for now i think it makes flying more enjoyable than in 2.15. specially for all the newcomers.
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why does everyone think the planes got faster
THEY GOT SLOWER COMPARED TO 2.15
they are just more agile and seem to reach their topspeed faster.
sure it is not perfect but i guess in BF2 WW2 planes will NEVER be perfect or close to what they were in FH 0.7. thats just engine limitations.
be sure the work on the planes continues, but for now i think it makes flying more enjoyable than in 2.15. specially for all the newcomers.
Thank you for posting this.
Everybody in the server was telling me the planes got faster, while I kept telling them the BF109 (El Al) is now the little brother of the Stuka with regards to speed.
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I liked 2.15 fly physics more. 2.2 is not terrible, but if I could choose it would be 2.15. Planes are in minor role so I dont care much (only in 6 maps?). There is one thing what little bit bugs me about planes. Aircraft weapons deals too much damage agains other planes. When you are behind enemy tail it is instant kill when spray hits to target.
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Must admit though, i fell in love with the Typhoon yesterday. in one life, i shot down 2 FW190's, and used my rockets in a dive, to kill 2 tigers, a panther and a..............Kubelwagen lol
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i can agree that planes go down a little too easy right now. but at leas they do get down before you were not able to hit them and wasted all your ammo on 1 plane just because the hits didnt get registered.
now to find a middle ground. maybe just buffing the planes health a little ...
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When I saw you were added to the betatest team, I was expecting you to comment on the new plane physics since you seem to mostly fly planes. I was surprised when I never noticed you saying anything against or in favor of the new system.
I did, but I was told it was to late to change them, and that's the way they were going to be.
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When it comes to BF2/FH2 I think of all vehicles as a scaled down version of the real one. With their different advantages/disadvantages over others.
FW190
Has an extremely short take-off distance, a bit to short IMO, we all know this is not a simulator but come on. Very agile and manouverable which I like, because it should be. And the firepower is immense, as it should be. Speed is good. But it really needs a different sound than the 109, but it's a first time release for this theater so I'm not complaining.
ME109
Should be fast as it is in real life. Slowing it down was a mistake. The speed/climb rate was perfect in 2.15. Making it more manueverable was also a mistake. Essentially it has been switched into a bit of a spitfire. It was really "realistic" how it was before, the spit with its speed and agility, the 109 as the fast, high-altitude one.
Stuka
I guess speeding it up a bit didn't hurt. However could have left the manueverability as it was. It should feel like a hit & run aircraft, it did, but not anymore.
Can't say much about the allied planes since I havn't really tried them out. The new Typhoon seems nice. However a big plus in flying overall is thanks to the 1.5 patch, the improved hitboxes, makes it alot more challenging.
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The main problem with planes in FH2 is that there is no wing lift and so there are no stalls as well.
This makes it quite hard to program flying physics of WW2 planes. It's either reduced manoeuvrability with long take-offs and landings or high manoeuvrability and high speed with short take-offs and landings iirc.
Can't say much about the allied planes since I havn't really tried them out. The new Typhoon seems nice. However a big plus in flying overall is thanks to the 1.5 patch, the improved hitboxes, makes it alot more challenging.
Iirc the hitboxes were only improved on the models and not on the netcode, so all good hits are thanks to improved hitboxes done by the devs and not the 1.5 patch.
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w00t @ hitboxes. In that case cred to dev's. Haven't actually played vanilla since 1.5 but if that's the case then...wow.
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Flying is easier and that is what i don't like, now it makes noobs look so good.
I hear you, I liked the 2.15 because the planes felt heavy and deadly and the learning curve was a bit higher, meaning that a bit of practice actually could lead to a deadly pilot behind the stick
Now it's like every damn pilot is Hans-Joachim Marseille.
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All i want to say to a pilot is.."DO A BARREL ROLL!" :O!
lol!
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Man, been flying some on Totalize, Spitfire/Typhoon vs FW190.
I miss the dogfights in 2.15, they could take sometime, depending on the skill of the hunter and the skill of the prey. Now it mainly feels like it's a toss of a coin that makes the difference whether the hunter or the prey shall live to fight another day.
The learning curve has not been lowered. It has been erased.
And the look and feel, where 2.15 had a great and cinematic feel (just look at Gazala and the dogfights you could see there from the ground). The 2.2 counterpart makes me think of BF:Heroes. Not serious and a cartoon feeling.
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Well I've said since we started testing these new physics that the planes are just toyplanes now. And even I dont really care about planes as I do not fly one bit, I still think the planes are quite rubbish right now.
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I don't know why the way planes behave changed between 2.15 and 2.2, but now I have to tell that I find them completly broken.
In 2.15 everything wasn't perfect (landing without damage was very hard, even for an experienced pilot) but the global feeling was realistic.
Now the planes are just like Tie fighters in space. Too fast, far too manoeuvrable, and absolutely impossible to stall. I tried the spitfire IX once, it just took off after 3 meter of runway just like it had boosters.
I also saw a Me109 turning 270° with a few meters radius (which is impossible with most of the planes, and especially with that one), and a Ju87 diving right and left, so that the bofors just below couldn't even follow its movement !
Please, bring the planes back as they were, flying is no more a pleasure now. :-[
I HATE the way they fly. :o Before few would fly and it was a thing few where good at now EVERY one is waiting for a plane just to crash it! Now it is something every one dose and im not happy that there are more "flyboys" ??? :-X
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Luckily most parts of 2.15 physics have been left to old maps. Faster fighters and weaker guns makes dogfighting take raw skill. Playing Totalize when you have played few rounds before El Alamein, difference is huge.
I suggest that devs does not try to "force fit" planes to maps what are too small or not enought room. Then they dont have to make planes behave like in BF heroes.
Perhaps devs didnt have any real airmap finished during 2.2 release so they quickly turned Totalize having planes. Weird physics chances makes sence because they didnt have proper map.
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Man, been flying some on Totalize, Spitfire/Typhoon vs FW190.
I miss the dogfights in 2.15, they could take sometime, depending on the skill of the hunter and the skill of the prey. Now it mainly feels like it's a toss of a coin that makes the difference whether the hunter or the prey shall live to fight another day.
The learning curve has not been lowered. It has been erased.
And the look and feel, where 2.15 had a great and cinematic feel (just look at Gazala and the dogfights you could see there from the ground). The 2.2 counterpart makes me think of BF:Heroes. Not serious and a cartoon feeling.
True, it looks very odd from the ground as well when the planes turn so damn sharp. It really has a cartoon feel in it now.
Damn i miss old physics i have quit flying pretty much now as i just isn't as fun anymore. You don't feel the speed and when you shoot down enemy spit with BF109 it just doesn't feel as rewarding. Its like walk in park. Same is with the turning i just don't like how sharp those planes turn now.
@Potilas, planes doesn't feel like like 2.15 in Africa, there you can see the difference even better.
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I don't know what are you complaining about guys, if you flew good in 2.15, you will be good in 2.2. simple as that. The only difference i see is that now instead of following the plane and getting on its 6, you can shoot it from top/bottom/side/front, and that is due to the hitbox fix. great improvement, now dogfights depend on luck much more.
i have a question, does FW has more HP than 109 or not. In reality liquid cooled engine was quick to catch fire if cooling system is hit, while in FW with its aircooled engine was far more durable.
sure planes take off and land faster, but that was the case of fh1 too. just enjoy, and it is quite interesting to see more people taking up to the sky. if you, however, dislike flying now, grab flakvierling or bofors, there are good new tanks, you know, and finally - get a life.
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Its not about is someone good or not, its that its not fun anymore. And hit box fix is awesome and would be so nice to fly with old plane physics and new hit boxes. Planes look odd from ground and from air. I still like to fly but it just isn't even close as fun as it was before its like 1/10 fun.
And why the hell should i replace my flying fun with AA fun, doesn't make sense.
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sure planes take off and land faster, but that was the case of fh1 too.
There were vertical taking off planes in FH1 ? I must have missed this version of Alpenfestung ;D
Anyway any people that has ever played with you knows that the more you frag, and the happier you are Otto. So I'm sure you won't complain if shooting is easier, even when at this point it becomes ridiculous ... :P
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Keep it as it is.
Flying was fun before 2.2, but not to the same degree, it was still too hard. Now flying is a most enjoyable experience!
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Again hate them ???
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Keep it as it is.
Flying was fun before 2.2, but not to the same degree, it was still too hard. Now flying is a most enjoyable experience!
I don't fly and don't really give a crap about how the planes handle now as opposed to 2.15. What I do know is air combat looks and sounds much cooler from the ground now. Africa was just two retards doing endless figure 8's in the sky high above. Now they zipping all over with some great dog fighting. I vote to keep it as is because it gives me something to watch while I wait to ambush tanks. ;D
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If tried my luck at the stick as well this weekend and it just has gotten easier and nicer in all.
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What I do know is air combat looks and sounds much cooler from the ground now. Africa was just two retards doing endless figure 8's in the sky high above. Now they zipping all over with some great dog fighting. I vote to keep it as is because it gives me something to watch while I wait to ambush tanks. ;D
That was mainly due to the BF2 engine and it's sad excuse for hit boxes. No one could get a kill shot on the other because you had to be shooting from near dead six, which caused the endless figure eights. Now that those are "fixed", I'd be interested to see which reason made the hit boxes so extorted, the fast air speed of the aircraft or the BF2 hit boxes in general.
If it is the second, I'd be all for going back to the old physics. If it is the first, then I'd rather keep them as they are as of 2.2.
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I believe both versions had their own pro's and con's. I enjoy flying in both, though I tend not to bother.
My only issue is that flying has become easier with 2.2 which means every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks they should have the plane.... along with Bob, Martin, Alfred, Sam, Philip and Marcus.
I never saw plane camping as an issue but with 2.2 physics it is becoming that way. Lots more are unfolding their deckchairs, kicking back and chilling leaving their team short.
I think the only way to prevent this would be to lock the planes to all kits bar Pilot Kits, if thats possible. Place only enough kits so to have 1 pilot per plane.
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I believe both versions had their own pro's and con's. I enjoy flying in both, though I tend not to bother.
My only issue is that flying has become easier with 2.2 which means every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks they should have the plane.... along with Bob, Martin, Alfred, Sam, Philip and Marcus.
I never saw plane camping as an issue but with 2.2 physics it is becoming that way. Lots more are unfolding their deckchairs, kicking back and chilling leaving their team short.
I think the only way to prevent this would be to lock the planes to all kits bar Pilot Kits, if thats possible. Place only enough kits so to have 1 pilot per plane.
There are no pilots kits on Totalize. Plus, you would, in all fairness, need at least one pilot kit per position in a plane (including rear MG positions [Stuka] and Observer positions [Cub, Storch, Beau]). Plus, a lot of pilots prefer to fly with an engineer kit so they can repair their plane in case they need to land somewhere other than an auto-repairing airfield. I guess that last one might be alleviated by giving Pilot kits a wrench, though.
Finally, locking it Pilot kit only just means that people would be camping the kits, instead of the planes, or worse, TKing for the kits instead of TKing for planes.
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A few of my observations.
Now you do not even have to lead the enemy plane. If the enemy is in front and you shoot you have a very good chance of a hit no matter the angle. There is no longer really any sense of distance with the guns.
The take off is so fast but acceleration is so slow. The planes are too slow. Especially the Typhoon. I know it is loaded down and all but you have to put it in a steep dive just to get the landing gear to retract. I was going full speed and got shot out of the cockpit while having no damage by a Tiger MG34. Even before this version it is insane how much MG fire you take in a plane. The MGS in tanks are clearly different than the ones the infantry has.
The 190 is bad ass. I really like the fighter-bomber version. Now it is so easy to land and reload the bomb or rockets if you are in the Typhoon. No challenge at all. I liked having to make a good landing under stress. Now all you have to do is be in the same grid and it is a good landing.
I still like it but it seems too easy now. It is not as realistic.
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A few of my observations.
Now you do not even have to lead the enemy plane. If the enemy is in front and you shoot you have a very good chance of a hit no matter the angle. There is no longer really any sense of distance with the guns.
The take off is so fast but acceleration is so slow. The planes are too slow. Especially the Typhoon. I know it is loaded down and all but you have to put it in a steep dive just to get the landing gear to retract. I was going full speed and got shot out of the cockpit while having no damage by a Tiger MG34. Even before this version it is insane how much MG fire you take in a plane. The MGS in tanks are clearly different than the ones the infantry has.
The 190 is bad ass. I really like the fighter-bomber version. Now it is so easy to land and reload the bomb or rockets if you are in the Typhoon. No challenge at all. I liked having to make a good landing under stress. Now all you have to do is be in the same grid and it is a good landing.
I still like it but it seems too easy now. It is not as realistic.
Yeah I miss the landing too, in OP. Totalize it's not needed, but it does give a kind of immersion to the game.
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Tried El Alamein a while ago in a 109 and it was fun, feel like you have to be on your toes much more now...before it was so stiff, there was no chance of doing damage when shooting from the side etc.
Although the insanely short take off distances are a bit ridicolous.
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I for one love the new hitboxes. I used to be invulnerable when turning but that is not a fool proof way of success any more. The planes on Operation Totalize is more arcady but they are so fun so I dont care. The only thing i would like to see implemented are guns that converge at a set distance as the wingtip MGs on the spitfire really puts it at a disadvantage against the FW190. It is a really simple change to do btw, a few forumers showed how to edit the files to make it happen in singleplayer.
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Wait .... I thought we already had the new gun convergence. It was calculated by Eat Uranium, if I remember correctly.
So you mean I've been shooting the Boche's air knights out of the sky
and it was all my own doings .... nais ;D
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Flying is great now. Speed and Agility are how they should be.
You can stop the discuissing at this point because we will not change it. We want that everybody have fun with the Planes and not only the Flyboys. The Planes are much better as in all other Versions before. The new agility, the gunvergance and the speed make this Planes to a even more deadly and enjoyable Weapon on OUR Mod.
Stop Whining im tired. I wonder why you Guys think that whining bring anything. ::) Also its everytime the the same Person who whine about everything. Handweapons are shit, Planes are shit, Uniforms are wrong. Pff i start to ignore those Persons.
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Wait .... I thought we already had the new gun convergence. It was calculated by Eat Uranium, if I remember correctly.
So you mean I've been shooting the Boche's air knights out of the sky
and it was all my own doings .... nais ;D
Wait.... What? So we have it now? Impossible, why did i do so poor yesterday then.. hmmm, something must be wrong with my sight, yes that is it of course, my sights are damaged! Thats the only plausible reason I got shot down by cobrasteal last night, suggesting anything else is redicilous.
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Guns converge at 400m, the rockets at 200m.
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Flying is great now. Speed and Agility are how they should be.
You can stop the discuissing at this point because we will not change it. We want that everybody have fun with the Planes and not only the Flyboys. The Planes are much better as in all other Versions before. The new agility, the gunvergance and the speed make this Planes to a even more deadly and enjoyable Weapon on OUR Mod.
Stop Whining im tired. I wonder why you Guys think that whining bring anything. ::) Also its everytime the the same Person who whine about everything. Handweapons are shit, Planes are shit, Uniforms are wrong. Pff i start to ignore those Persons.
I... HATE YOU :'( , planes are shit.
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I... HATE YOU :'( , planes are shit.
please refrain from making comments like this, as they will get you no where.
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I... HATE YOU :'( , planes are shit.
please refrain from making comments like this, as they will get you no where.
I just keep the pressure up until devs brake. Its propaganda.
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If Toddel reads this, you're pretty much fucked. ;)
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Children, Question: I heard there are no longer any pilot kits in der Normadie maps, is this true? And why would such a thing be done?
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I agree that flying should be changed back to 2.15.
People complaining, "It was too hard, moan moan moan" SO WHAT?! Practice and you will get the hang of it! Like anyone who was good at flying in 2.15 9/10 didn't start that good. I hate the new physics, its too sensitive and too quick and tight when turning, diving, climbing... I personally used to love flying but now i completely hate it.
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I agree that flying should NOT be changed back to 2.15.
People complaining, "It's too sensitive and too quick, moan moan moan" SO WHAT?!
::)
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TROLL!
In all seriousness, the controlling of the planes is annoyingly unrealistic, they are much too fast; it's like a frigging jet plane in vBF2. It is not fun anymore. There are no tactics anymore. Id much rather have figure 8's instead of shooting at a 190 for a few seconds before you both freaking cash.
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It sounds like in the next version of FH2 we will get the ability to wing walk like in Battlefield Heroes. I can't wait. It will be so fun.
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Please note, that among the reasons for the revision in physics, was in favour of the Normandy landscape. Hitting ground targets with the typhoon using 2.15 physics, in our earlier betatests, proved near impossible for even the most experienced pilots in our betatesting crew.
Also, we must assume everyone who doesn't voice their opinion is FOR the current 2.2 physics. Just a way that feedback works. Also, seing as flying has a rather high learning curve, it is still rather early to judge the feedback. That's all for now, but I'll be back.
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As an aviation enthusiast and FH fan... i vote for the current physics.
Flying in computer a lot, using Il-2 Strumovik game series, LockOn:MAC, Flight Simulator series, X-planes. Been flying on real simulator such as 6-axis Level-D Boeing 737-200, tried real old stuff like DeHavilland Tiger Moth. Well, i believe, the new FH2.2 airplane physics worked best with the environment and the settings.
And if they seem to do a "cartooney maneuvers" when seen from the ground. I believe you've never been to any airshow with flying displays before. You only see straight and stiff flying fighter planes with solid turning maneuvers in movies, videos, and TVs because the camera follows the movement of the airplane. Sure it looks majestic, but it's somehow gives you the wrong impression. Try to spot airplanes landing/taking off in windy weather.
On the game:
It is a relatively small map compared to what we used to have in FH0.7 (play the 0.7's El-Alamein, and try to be a pilot there!). Being a big airplane fan, i'm not that airplane whore in FH games. Honestly, it is just another supporting role, i'm not that delighted to see a parking fighter planes without players camping around it. Showing off l33t flying skillz doesn't bring the player anywhere. The physics are tuned so we can do the pilot role in the game better.
I believe FH is not meant to "simulate" the flying experience. That is what you do on other games such as Il-2 Strumovik series. If you want to rant about realism and started to bring PR thingy, well PR itself despite bragging about being realistic, the plane physics aren't so close to the real ones. You may argue about engine limitations. But on that part, i think PR more of "delivering more realistic combat experience" rather than bringing full military simulator enhancements into your copy of BF2 game. So does FH which does not promise you "realism" from the start, instead of "historical accuracy".
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I'm with Zoo in this point. :)
Good post.
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I havent read all in this topic, but is it possible just as they did with FH1 to add or make (this would take lots of time) a new flight engine. As what i know is with FH1 they added the Merciless 1942 Flight Engine by Takiwa of Pacific Shores. Now this is a great flight engine
I dont know if this is even possible with the BF2 engine.
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changing values were probably doen from the start in FH2.
Planes don't fly like jets although they CAN'T possibly fly like real fighters either
BF2 physics is lax with stalls, if at all
BF2 physics prohibits engine-dying and falling from the sky
Bf2 doesn't cater for many forces facing a WW2 pilot that BF42 " least tried to have
The best you can do is make the planes fly @ reasonable speed and reasonable turn speed and arc, and that has to be scaled for the map otherwise no pilot will be able to get into a firing position before they hit the other edge of the map.
The devs are doing the best they can with planes: Planes catch fire " crucial points to let you know its time to bail or land, I thnik they even engine cease @ times cuz I've lost control of the plane @ engine burn at least twice.
But there's little more the devs can do to give you a better experience
I could suggest, a greater angle of 'free-look', perhaps left-view, right-view keys for instant turn, maybe better tracer effect and extended POV, return bullets falling from firing plane mgs but that's really all there is to add, EFFECTS
As far as including a 'real plane ENGINE' is concerned, I think the devs already have... Its just about changing values rather than playing around hardcode. Planes can't be shot down easily by mgs, hit by riflemen easily, and they don't turn at 10m distances... so real-plane FH2 is covered, I think
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Planes can't be shot down easily by mgs, hit by riflemen easily, and they don't turn at 10m distances... so real-plane FH2 is covered, I think
In my experience, it's ridiculously easy to shoot down a plane with a tank's Coaxial MG or even its cannon. But I might be a little biased, because I consider that (death by tank) to be the most humiliating way to be shot down while flying.
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Please note, that among the reasons for the revision in physics, was in favour of the Normandy landscape. Hitting ground targets with the typhoon using 2.15 physics, in our earlier betatests, proved near impossible for even the most experienced pilots in our betatesting crew.
Thanks for your answer. At least we got the information now, instead of something like "the Duce is always right, go fuck yourself" that some people intend to state.
So well, there was a problem, you made a choice to fix it, but there are other posibilities. Such as fitting the maps to the game, instead of fitting the game to the maps. How about increasing the limits of the map for planes to allow better manoeuvering ? Or simply not adding planes to maps that are really too tiny for them ?
The problem is that fixing one map that way has compromised flying in all the other maps that were fine. I'm even afraid of what will happen when all desert maps will be again on rotation. There is one map with hurricanes equipped with 40mm guns (can't remember the name), it was a challenge to master it in an AT role with 2.15 physics, but being part of the (very ?) few peoples that used it right I can tell it could be a pain for every german tankers with a good pilot.
But with the current physics and especially the increased manoeuvrability, you can be almost sure that most of the german tanks will be crushed easily once they leave their main base, and this not by flyboys only but any people having a joystick.
Also, we must assume everyone who doesn't voice their opinion is FOR the current 2.2 physics. Just a way that feedback works. Also, seing as flying has a rather high learning curve, it is still rather early to judge the feedback. That's all for now, but I'll be back.
This may be right, but might be wrong aswell. I mean, before considering helping here I had never put a foot on that forum. And I've been playing FH for many years. Think about the possibility that there are also many people in that case. ;)
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In my experience, it's ridiculously easy to shoot down a plane with a tank's Coaxial MG or even its cannon. But I might be a little biased, because I consider that (death by tank) to be the most humiliating way to be shot down while flying.
Death by being hit with an arty round is the most humiliating death in a plane. ^^
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In my experience, it's ridiculously easy to shoot down a plane with a tank's Coaxial MG or even its cannon. But I might be a little biased, because I consider that (death by tank) to be the most humiliating way to be shot down while flying.
Death by being hit with an arty round is the most humiliating death in a plane. ^^
Actually, no, because that never happens on purpose, so it's just bad luck for that pilot. But whenever a plane flies overhead, every Tom, Dick, and Harry in any kind of tank starts spraying his MG at it and all too often shoots down or significantly damages the plane. And that just seems wrong to me...
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Tanks do shot Airplanes. As in modern wars, in Iraq for example, T-55 tanks fired time-fused HE shells at Westland Lynx helicopter (see this at Helicopter Wars Series @ NatGeo channel).
Even that Oto Melara 76 mm quick-firing canon in most modern warships (usually can be seen in most US ships) can also engage close flying objects with its integrated radar guidance. Modern MBTs can also engage low flying objects and those with ATGM-firing capability are more privileged.
And this is too obvious for you all: the Tiger's KwK36 gun has similar characteristics with that famous 88 mm calibre FlaK18/36 anti-aircraft gun (although not the same thing). So it may hit similar targets without much difficulties, only several problems such as probably the gun movement mechanism, field of view, and sights.
How about increasing the limits of the map for planes to allow better manoeuvering ? Or simply not adding planes to maps that are really too tiny for them ?
I think it's already been done, the planes can fly through the ground forces no-go area safely without warning and punishments.
But with the current physics and especially the increased maneuverability, you can be almost sure that most of the german tanks will be crushed easily once they leave their main base, and this not by flyboys only but any people having a joystick.
As a plane-biased player (i am an aviation fan anyway), i think people in FH2 still under utilize AA assets. Don't be mistaken, AA weapons are very effective and now could be very fun role in FH2 to play as. Players only use them when need them. Bailing whenever they want to. In Normandy, there is a Flakpanzer in one of the maps (Totalize i suppose). I'm pretty sure it would be the bane of the flyboys there.
The biggest enemy of every tanks in the battlefield is i think, airplanes, up until today. There are reasons why superior German tanks didn't dominate the battlefield as they intended to. Tiffies, Strumoviks, are few examples.
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The map operation Totalize is a nightmare for the allies. Their are so many flak vierlings, Flak 18's, and the wirbelwind, and then still those 2 FW190 who can outperform you quiet quick if you dont pay attention well
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The map operation Totalize is a nightmare for the allies. Their are so many flak vierlings, Flak 18's, and the wirbelwind, and then still those 2 FW190 who can outperform you quiet quick if you dont pay attention well
Stay high above fog level and wait for the 190s to show up...
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The map operation Totalize is a nightmare for the allies. Their are so many flak vierlings, Flak 18's, and the wirbelwind, and then still those 2 FW190 who can outperform you quiet quick if you dont pay attention well
Stay high above fog level and wait for the 190s to show up...
Good luck finding targets. Even if you do get a miracle and a teammate Q-Spots an enemy Tank, first you have to dive on the nearby flak emplacements, hope to god only the flak gun you destroyed was manned (out of probably 4 that can see and shoot you), dodge 190s, dodge Tank MGs and Tank cannons, pray the Wirble isn't nearby, then swing around and try to rocket the tank that has since moved (and the Q-Spot has also likely expired), THEN get back up into the clouds before anything shoots you. Of course, you could just dive on the tank, but then you would probably die by all the flak and 190s around, so why even use the rockets, just lawndart into the tank with your plane (it accomplishes pretty much the same thing as killing it with rockets and getting shot down, except it's likely against server rules).
Wow, complaining feels good sometimes... Anyway, as for constructive criticism: I got none right now. Sorry. :)
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^^ It is so easy to kill tanks with the Typhoon i feel sorry for them some times. Even when flying low and hitting the tiger from the front seems to kill it instantly. Also, when going up against the flakpanzer i win most of the time since im not so dumb that i attack from the most obvious direction. Spot, turn, fly around and up, attack from the top with cannons and rockets. Easy as that.
Totalize only becomes difficult if the enemy has a good pilot in the FW190 which seems to be around only 20% of the pilots since most of them fly straight as an arrow and never looks back. Also, when the AA is really dense it gets difficult to keep track of it all. One FW190 chasing you and one flakpanzer and an 88 firing at me often lead to loss of situational awareness and death. I.e. You fly to close to the enemy AA. But practice makes perfect so I have to train more.
I am thinking however of buying a joystick since i cant really make as prolonged sharp turns as necessary to dogfight if the enemy is good. But for killing ground targets and most of the enemy pilots mouse works perfect.
The dude who said that MGs and tank guns are too difficult really needs to train more. I have only died three times from gun and MG fire after ten hours flying on totalize and that was only when i was stupid and attacked straight on. Fly high, and attack from the top and the tanks are sitting ducks. Of course you might take some mg damage from other tanks, but thats why you have to land and repair, which is a real easy thing to do.
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I like the new way to fly too, the only change i will add is the distance to take off... Just do it longest because it's really too short ATM. For the rest as Toddel said it's perfect !
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I dont care planes get shot down so soon, since there are so few in maps there are always people waiting for them too spawn. Ive only flew twice in the Hurricane and never in the Typhoon. So since they get shot easy, ive more chance bumping in one.
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To be fair, I'm really tired, and I complain a lot when I'm tired. Most of what I've said in my last few posts in this topic should be taken with a grain of salt. If you noticed, I never really asked for anything to be changed, I was just complaining, basically for the sake of complaining. I probably shouldn't post when I'm tired...
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I did not fly much in 2.15. Have tried planes only once or twice in 2.2. I still say that the new flight model is better.
The earlier was not realistic either (well, I'm an IL-2 player too) and killed the fun really. Plus, the airplanes were slow, which made them easy targets for everything from AT rifle to tank gun. In 2.2, the majority of the kills comes from other planes and AA, as it should be (though an inexperienced pilot will still fly straight and level into the sights of an AT gun, thinking himself to be safe because no flak bursts threaten him...). Also, the airplanes' speed in 2.2 makes them feel as if they were fighters instead of flying recon cars. As for the manoeuverability, in 2.15 it took half the map to turn Storch around. Since the air maps are scaled already, this was a bit silly. "Insanely short take-off distances", see scaling. Having an airstrip take half the map would not be funny, and considering the scaling, would not be realistic either.
Somebody said that the planes fly like TIE Fighters. A wonderful analogy, since George Lucas deliberately based his vision of space combat on WW2 films and documentaries... maybe the FH2 planes should fly like TIE Fighters :D
2.2 flight model gives a much more fun and believable implementation of flying than 2.15, within the limitations of the BF2 engine and within the "spirit" of FH2. It is not and cannot be "fully" realistic, for those I recommend the IL-2 series.
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2.2 flight model gives a much more fun and believable implementation of flying than 2.15
Well, there is at least one point that nobody can negate (even the ones in favour of the changes that happened):
In 2.15 the climbing rate of planes was limited, and you were obliged to turn and climb slowly to reach high altitudes, otherwise you were actually loosing altitude. (this is how planes behave IRL)
In 2.2 planes are literally vertical taking off jets. Once taken off you just have to position the plane 90° from the ground and start your (fast) travel to the Moon. Nothing stops you, there isn't even a slight speed decrease.
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2.2 flight model gives a much more fun and believable implementation of flying than 2.15
Well, there is at least one point that nobody can negate (even the ones in favour of the changes that happened):
In 2.15 the climbing rate of planes was limited, and you were obliged to turn and climb slowly to reach high altitudes, otherwise you were actually loosing altitude. (this is how planes behave IRL)
In 2.2 planes are literally vertical taking off jets. Once taken off you just have to position the plane 90° from the ground and start your (fast) travel to the Moon. Nothing stops you, there isn't even a slight speed decrease.
So according to you planes fly equally fast when flying 90 degrees up as they do when flying at a straight level, is that way you are saying?
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I find interesting that most comments in this thread relate to A2A combat and fighters (or fighter-bombers). Yes fighters handle in an unrealistic way and face unrealistic constraints, but these are minor problems, really.
Real problems surface when modeling other kind of planes. Have you ever tried flying a Stuka in a pseudo-historical way in FH2, any version? Should I mention "insane climb rate"? "no speed increase in a dive"? Divebombing was only useful in 2.0 since you needed direct hits on matildas and grants to destroy them, but since 2.1 and its bigger bomb blast radius it's pointless, only helps AA gunners predict your path.
And so on... the more a plane type differs from your standard BF2 jet fighter the worse it would be depicted in FH2. Just consider how the Tante Ju performs.
Let's face it, there are critical engine limitations, workarounds if at all possible would need a lot of work and would probably cause a lot of performance issues.
I don't think FH2 can attempt to model successfully anything but slightly arcadish high-speed fighters and fighter bombers. And even then I wonder how highly maneouvrable but very frail fighters like the I-16, Oscar or Zero might be modeled.
If you can't live without FH with better plane modeling, the easier way is to revert to FH 0.7 and/or FHSW. The harder way is to go on and spend months coding yourself the new flight model - but I don't know how much space for improvement over the current FH system is left in the engine. :(
In my experience, it's ridiculously easy to shoot down a plane with a tank's Coaxial MG or even its cannon. But I might be a little biased, because I consider that (death by tank) to be the most humiliating way to be shot down while flying.
Death by being hit with an arty round is the most humiliating death in a plane. ^^
Uhm... what about being bombed by another plane?
I once managed to teamkill my own escort that way, for some reason the bf-109 pilot decided to fly in formation below and slightly behind my stuka while I was level bombing a flag...
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Real problems surface when modeling other kind of planes. Have you ever tried flying a Stuka in a pseudo-historical way in FH2, any version? Should I mention "insane climb rate"? "no speed increase in a dive"? Divebombing was only useful in 2.0 since you needed direct hits on matildas and grants to destroy them, but since 2.1 and its bigger bomb blast radius it's pointless, only helps AA gunners predict your path.
I feel the same. FH2 should be something like historical reenactment on BF2 engine. But one aspect that i find it funny is dive bombing. One in particular is "no speed increase in a dive". And i think, once more maps with heavier bombers released, Stuka's proportion in FH2 battles will be minimal.
And even then I wonder how highly maneuverable but very frail fighters like the I-16, Oscar or Zero might be modeled.
Me too. The Spits and Bf-109 turns miraculously fast. Hurricane is a bit slow turner, but the difference is hardly can be seen. Those fighters you mentioned could be well out of proportion.
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So according to you planes fly equally fast when flying 90 degrees up as they do when flying at a straight level, is that way you are saying?
That's what I mean yes. ;)
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Planes should be faster and have lower turning rate(<- especially this). Physics are so arcadey that it feels fucking arcadey even in bf2 level. Those so called "planes" feel like UFO:s.
In real there is no way plane can turn that fast, it would break apart or at least would be in irreversible spin.
Plus planes look annoyingly stupid from the ground as they turn so tight (those with trails behind plane lag a bit cause of that sometimes) and are slow as hell. Usually i use six pounders as AA against BF109:s and Stukas.
My opinion: New physics are deep from Stalins arse.
Phew... now i got today's complaints done about UFO physics.
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Planes should be faster and have lower turning rate(<- especially this). Physics are so arcadey that it feels fucking arcadey even in bf2 level. Those so called "planes" feel like UFO:s.
In real there is no way plane can turn that fast, it would break apart or at least would be in irreversible spin.
Plus planes look annoyingly stupid from the ground as they turn so tight (those with trails behind plane lag a bit cause of that sometimes) and are slow as hell. Usually i use six pounders as AA against BF109:s and Stukas.
My opinion: New physics are deep from Stalins arse.
Phew... now i got today's complaints done about UFO physics.
one word - SCALING! The battlefield is highly scaled for most maps and those that aren't cannot accomodate planes SO-o, unless you want to take a plane up into the air and have it hit the edge of the map before you can make a complete turn or need to be above the clouds before you can nose down enuff to take a target without ploughing into the gorund afterwards, you need to consider the compromise that exists for plane physics... Maybe a bit tweaking here and there - And if there is a need, the devs are certainly working on it - But planes can NEVER fly exactly like real planes in FH2 because of 2 things:
Scaling and the BF2 jet-plane-planned game engine
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Played again several times... and i think, yeah the physics is a bit strange, but it is okay. The maneuverability seemed to be overdone, especially the fighter planes.
I think we need several minor adjustments to tone down its nimbleness and the speed gain when diving. Other than that, it is fine.
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Played again several times... and i think, yeah the physics is a bit strange, but it is okay. The maneuverability seemed to be overdone, especially the fighter jets.
We have jet planes?! :o
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LoLwUT? ;D
Thanks... edited. Sorry for the mistake.
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I feel the same. FH2 should be something like historical reenactment on BF2 engine. But one aspect that i find it funny is dive bombing. One in particular is "no speed increase in a dive". And i think, once more maps with heavier bombers released, Stuka's proportion in FH2 battles will be minimal.
I think medium bombers (and even light bombers, probably) would actually be much worse than the Stuka. Apart from stunts like vertical takeoff bombers, the Stuka and the various fighter bombers are balanced by their main targets being mobile. Supposing the role of medium bombers would be bombing emplacements (flags), all you have to do is to place a marker on the spot to be bombed and fly above sight range (extremely easy with the no-gravity climb rates and necessarily reduced sight ranges) navigating with the minimap, and drop bombs when you reach the marker.
And even then I wonder how highly maneuverable but very frail fighters like the I-16, Oscar or Zero might be modeled.
Me too. The Spits and Bf-109 turns miraculously fast. Hurricane is a bit slow turner, but the difference is hardly can be seen. Those fighters you mentioned could be well out of proportion.
It's not just a problem of "pure" maneuvrability, more a number of engine limits that take effect at the same time for this kind of plane.
How do you model their non-armored cockpits and non-selfsealing fuel tanks in this engine? How can a Warhawk pilot avoid dogfighting a Zero, if diving gives no speed advantage, and in any case a slashing attack would bring you outside map boundaries in no time? The map size constraints and low visibility effectively force all fighters to manouvered dogfights...
For example, with the conditions imposed by the game engine Cr.42s should probably outperform Hurricanes in North African maps. But then people would complain "this is not historical, Hurricanes were better than Cr.42s". Yes, provided they had ample space to dive/retreat/pursue the slow biplanes, which they simply can't have in BF2 engine.
So, which flavor of unlikely-historical do you prefer, Cr.42s pwning Hurricanes or Hurricanes outmaneuvering a biplane? :)
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OK how, i suppose the flying physics are here to stay, and i guess i can live with that.
BUT PLEASE. Make take offs longer. It destroys the point of the storch having such a great short take off and landing if all other planes can take of in the same short diastance!! :-X
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How do you model their non-armored cockpits and non-selfsealing fuel tanks in this engine?
Less hitpoints. Which leads to the situation when rifles, SMGs and pistols are fired at the said aircraft in addition to AA, MG and cannons, and they tend to die horribly, unless they are used strictly in air-to-air role and as offensive weapons (ie. you try to get the first shot).
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I'm never going to fly again any time soon (still a huge amount of BF2 'tards that arrived with the latest patch who bitch about 'omg you cut in line!!1'), so I can't really complain about the physics. But, in Totalize anyways, I was literally laughing out loud at how absolutely ridiculous the planes looked in the air. I don't mean 'wow, that is off the CHAIN' ridiculous, but '....are you serious?' ridiculous.
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How do you model their non-armored cockpits and non-selfsealing fuel tanks in this engine? How can a Warhawk pilot avoid dogfighting a Zero, if diving gives no speed advantage, and in any case a slashing attack would bring you outside map boundaries in no time? The map size constraints and low visibility effectively force all fighters to manouvered dogfights...
I guess all will be simplified. As Kelmola said, maybe their hitpoints are toned down for instance. And the Zeros bleed their hitpoints when in critical condition to simulate non self-sealing fuel tanks. I dunno, there are always possibilities, just it doesn't have to be 100% exact.
For example, with the conditions imposed by the game engine Cr.42s should probably outperform Hurricanes in North African maps. But then people would complain "this is not historical, Hurricanes were better than Cr.42s". Yes, provided they had ample space to dive/retreat/pursue the slow biplanes, which they simply can't have in BF2 engine.
So, which flavor of unlikely-historical do you prefer, Cr.42s pwning Hurricanes or Hurricanes outmaneuvering a biplane? :)
We cannot take conclusions like "X vehicle is superior than Y vehicle provided this" to generalize or simplify the game balancing/realism issue. Like many players did with FW190 in Totalize. FW190 is indeed, one of the best in Luftwaffe's arsenal, and it is even deadlier with Galland or Nowotny on the stick. What would they say when some uber-l33t pilots (e.g. MG42maniac and his Tiffy addiction) pwn the FW190s easily not with the Spits, but his Tiffy?
If we criticize FH2, but then starting to blame the issue on BF2's engine limitations, then there is no point in discussing it already. But i believe, the FH team will always find the answer to the issue. I would like to point the issue more on something like "Cr.42s pwning Hurricanes" if that is how it is. All too easy, we can just point out that the Hurricane pilot is da n00b! We all know that the German's don't pwn the allies that easy just like in FH2. So why not? It is fun to recreate the battle with all the realism and historical accuracy.
Ah... time for this:
FH1 used to had some issues with sloped armor which makes T-34 tanks less menacing than it should be. Players start complaining about realism and German-bias here and there. But then it is finally brought to the game in latest release, so we can see panzer shells bouncing off when hitting their sloped armor. Then players started to complain about them owning all early Barbarossa maps and balancing issue (e.g. modified vanilla Kharkov).
That is what vanilla BF all about: pure balance with only slight realism into it. We know that in general, Sherman's firepower is weaker than the German tanks (no specific), so we have to lob the shells in vBF1942, while the Panzers can have flatter trajectories (despite the PzIV being the short-barreled one). Everymap have guessable counterparts, which balances the gameplay evenly, sacrificing historical accuracy and realism: Hanomag vs M3A1 Halftrack, M4A1 vs Pz4 vs Chi-Ha vs T-34, M10 vs Tiger vs T-34-85, and so on. To put it short: it is more appealing to many gamers and general audiences than FH, and people are paying for it. I hope we have a bit more passion in WW2 than those people.
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I'm never going to fly again any time soon (still a huge amount of BF2 'tards that arrived with the latest patch who bitch about 'omg you cut in line!!1'), so I can't really complain about the physics. But, in Totalize anyways, I was literally laughing out loud at how absolutely ridiculous the planes looked in the air. I don't mean 'wow, that is off the CHAIN' ridiculous, but '....are you serious?' ridiculous.
You call people that wait in line tards?? Thats like a robber complaining that his victims cry to much.
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You call people that wait in line tards?? Thats like a robber complaining that his victims cry to much.
Why they wait in line instead of fighting the battle? No wonder some maps, especially with aircraft feels unbalanced.
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I guess all will be simplified. As Kelmola said, maybe their hitpoints are toned down for instance. And the Zeros bleed their hitpoints when in critical condition to simulate non self-sealing fuel tanks. I dunno, there are always possibilities, just it doesn't have to be 100% exact.
The problem is these simplifications can't be an optimal solution, they will probably introduce other unrealistic side effects (as Kelmola pointed out). The whole point of my post was actually "the devs did their best with the engine". I don't think any more major adjustments are possible, just trimming a bit the values.
I expect FH2 to focus on high-speed fighters and fighter-bombers, as pretty much any other type of plane just create more issues than we already have.
So, in short: yes, flying physics are unrealistic. But the real choice is between this or a different flavor of unrealistic.
Personally, the current flavor is good enough for me*, I'm against excessive changes
*: strictly speaking, I preferred FH 2.0's version. The reason is that I mostly fly Stukas and recons - in my experience flying fighters mean queues, people feeling pissed off and TKs = no fun. 2.0 was the only version where you needed direct bomb hits on medium/heavy tanks, from 2.1 enlarged bomb blast radius made bombing too easy IMO.
But I realize that that system only worked for a few people, it required people to specialize in dive bombing (i.e., an otherwise pointless maneuver in the no-gravity BF2 environment), and while slightly more realistic (and immensely satisfying when you finally destroyed that Matilda!) that was bad for overall gameplay.
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If you want something that approaches to realist - Go to IL2
If you want complete Realism - Buy a real Plane.
Seriusly, i really dont care about f+cking airplanes, their models are great whatever, but im against them. Say thanks to the Devs because they added airplanes, when in real life airbases are far too behind friendly lines, safe from artillery, safe from snipers, safe from tanks and so on, here we are facing a super unrealistic thing..
(Yes there were a few battles were airbases, active, were near the frontline..)
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Physics should be like they were in 2.15 there were nothing wrong.
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Hyväksi todettu keino saada oma tahto läpi toisten modissa on jatkuva itkeminen.
Keep up the good work!
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Jos se kerran niin mainio keino on niin eihän sitä voi muuta kuin jatkaa.
Why the airplane physics were changed in the first place? Totalize is about the size of Mareth and there were no problems flying there.
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Yeah, of course theres no problem flying and being effective in a map that is set to desert. Now, do the same in a normandy setting which is filled with houses, hedgerows and tall trees. Yeah? Difficult.
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Yeah, of course theres no problem flying and being effective in a map that is set to desert. Now, do the same in a normandy setting which is filled with houses, hedgerows and tall trees. Yeah? Difficult.
Last time i checked Mareth was full of bunkers hills and towns, while totalize is full of plain field with few hedgerows and two windmills. Extremely hard to strafe those trenches and plain fields don't you think?
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Stop being silly. Of course Mareth Line is different compared to the rest of the North African maps due to its terrain being so different. But yes, its still a lot different deal than in Normandy since you have to count in performance issues aswell. Mareth Line has hills, towns, bunkers, trenches... you name it. But its still far emptier than Totalize is. Point being - if you still want to fly with your computer while playing a Normandy map, then you have to deal with it because we aint gonna buy you and every single whiny flyboy a NASA computer just to run FH2 maps that allow the flying physics of old FH2. You would have to have more space, thus more objects, thus more resource requirement from your computer.
Current physics can be tuned, but I personally dont see point going back since this system works just as fine. Admitted, I dont give a rats ass about flying or planes in the first place, to me personally they could remove planes altogether but that would just cause massive crybaby wave.
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Jumalauta kerjääts turpiin vai? :P
Removing planes from Totalize and putting old physics back would be better as well. Just sad that only game i play (FH) has lost the best thing to do in it (flying, not floating in air). But oh well, if devs think its the best way to handle planes it has to be cause they decide what kind of gameplay they want. Everything else is awesome except airplane physics.
Dog fights are really short now, airplanes are much more mirrored now and planes aren't as deep as they were.
And so it was performance issue after all? :-\
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You try fly a plane in a large highly detailed map which has to have very long view distance in order to make the planes useful. Add to that the speed and incredibly large turning radius and all you would do is either crash in high trees, buildings or die to constant out of bounds, that is of course if your PC would even be capable of running it without coughing its lungs out.
Ja mitä tässä kerjätään?
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Umm... no you wont crash if you can fly you just need to make hit and run tactics not to try turn 180 degrees right away when you strafed you target. Worked well in Mareth that has more things to evade and obstruct your fly path/line of fire than Totalize trees or hedgerows are not problem you can shoot trough them but you cant trough buildings or hills. You just need to be fast and concentrate all the time not like now when its like walk in the park. Totalize is mostly fields and hedgerows those doesn't make it any harder to strafe than in Africa.
Like i said already size is not a problem its about same as Mareth so you wont fly out of bounds or if its a problem give planes more space. Only problem that i understand are the performance issues.
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If you only knew the issues behind it, you would understand. Instead you just keep pushing it.
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I was just playing El Alamein flying the Beaufighter. On my landing approach I did two barrel rolls and landed right in the hanger. I should have made a video. Also the plane cannons are much weaker against ground vehicles. The Marder for example and even the trucks take a lot more damage.
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If you only knew the issues behind it, you would understand. Instead you just keep pushing it.
Well, I don't think the issues are so big. Anyway, you're now talking about map optimization and design, not flying physics.
BTW, Crete has most of the map design features of an air map: very long line of sight, reduced eyecandy for performance, etc.
The only doubt I have is whether a server can handle 64 vehicles (either planes or AA guns). If it can, then I see no problem for pure air maps like Battle of Britain or Bombing the Reich in FH 0.7.
Close air support maps are already possible, see Gazala - it's a tank+CAS map IMO.
The only problem for making a Gazala-like map in a non-desert location would be having to reduce eyecandy level (as was done with Crete). I know some people have high expectations on graphics and wouldn't accept any reduction of graphic detail. But maybe good map design might allow to limit eyecandy loss. For example, a (future... far in the future) map set over snow-covered eastern front plains, or over the sea, might help reducing the undergrowth to a minimum without looking bad.
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I still don't get it. BF2/FH2 is, at least to me, all about combined arms action.
With 64 players, even 4x4 kilometers would mean that non-flying players would be spending most of the time out of the action. So it's just not a question of eye candy, but gameplay as well. And considering the map scaling, "exaggerated" manoeuverability is OK for me, so that the action stays on the battlefield, not in the out-of-bounds territory or even outside the map.
As long as there is the IL-2 series, I really don't feel the need to have air-only maps in FH2 because the air combat has already been done better in there than would ever be possible in BF2 engine.
So, maps with strong air element included (with current physics), yes please. But pure air combat maps? No.
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To make a big map with huge distances and ugly graphics just so that we can have 2.15 plane physics in normandy sucks. This is a game that should be enjoyable for the ground soldiers aswell, not just the princesses in the planes.
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FW190
Very agile and manouverable which I like, because it should be.
Typhoon was made to destroy low flying FW190 as we have in 2.2. When I fly in Typhoon i have only 25% chances to shake 190 off. I think I am good pilot but that 190 is too manouverable. It was not. I liked typhoon as it was in FH1. Very manouverable but with less fire power. You needed skill to destroy panzer. In fh2.2 you need 10 mins in planes to learn how to hit tank. Typhoon is now like stuka: hit and run away. and this is stupid.
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I suggest the planes to be removed..
Common people, when you are using a fucking Typhoon, you are not the king of the map. You are a bit part of it. How can a team win with a single Typhoon, and the ground forces? they are doing shit here and there? are you crazy people? There are a few Airplane maps in FH2, and none of them concentrates on Airplanes. I hate airplanes in FPS, i simply hate them.
Guys this is not IL2 Sturmovik, this is BF2! damnit, BF2 is NOT a goddamn flight simulator! im glad we have an awesome artillery system, realistc tank values than a airplanes wich only a few good pilots can fly.
Why the devs would break their heads against walls because a couple of guys doesnt like airplanes, if airplanes will appear in a few maps.
Jesus...
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FW190
Very agile and manouverable which I like, because it should be.
Typhoon was made to destroy low flying FW190 as we have in 2.2. When I fly in Typhoon i have only 25% chances to shake 190 off. I think I am good pilot but that 190 is too manouverable. It was not. I liked typhoon as it was in FH1. Very manouverable but with less fire power. You needed skill to destroy panzer. In fh2.2 you need 10 mins in planes to learn how to hit tank. Typhoon is now like stuka: hit and run away. and this is stupid.
Uh? Typhoon was being designed as the successor to Hurricane already before the Battle of Britain, before the Britons even knew about 190. In this role, it was an epic fail since it had poor climb rate and even poorer performance at altitude. It did avoid the chopping block as a stopgap 190 destroyer, but not because it was more agile (which it most certainly wasn't). Down at the deck, it was really fast, fast enough to actually catch the 190, unlike Spit V (IX being unavailable at the time). The Typhoon's best asset would never be its manoeuverability, but its firepower and the fact that it was a stable gun platform, which meant that it was better suited for close support role where it was transferred as Spit IX and Tempest V became available to counter the low-flying 190s.
And as for the 190's manoeuverability, the 190 actually had better roll rate than Spit V, although its turn radius was slightly larger. I would say that it was agile.
So if currently in FH2 the 190 out-turns the Typhoon, but it's easy to take out tanks with the Typhoon, that sounds just about right.
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If only we had a plane called the "Tsunami". Then we could have completed our "tropical storms" aeroplane theme.
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I'm never going to fly again any time soon (still a huge amount of BF2 'tards that arrived with the latest patch who bitch about 'omg you cut in line!!1'), so I can't really complain about the physics. But, in Totalize anyways, I was literally laughing out loud at how absolutely ridiculous the planes looked in the air. I don't mean 'wow, that is off the CHAIN' ridiculous, but '....are you serious?' ridiculous.
You call people that wait in line tards?? Thats like a robber complaining that his victims cry to much.
Yeah, I do, because they are completely useless wastes of space that could otherwise be helping win the fight. Which would I rather have on my team, a player who will at least try and contribute to the fight by participating, or some moron who spends his time in some laughable dope-ass BF2 practice that should never have made its way to this mod?
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I'm never going to fly again any time soon (still a huge amount of BF2 'tards that arrived with the latest patch who bitch about 'omg you cut in line!!1'), so I can't really complain about the physics. But, in Totalize anyways, I was literally laughing out loud at how absolutely ridiculous the planes looked in the air. I don't mean 'wow, that is off the CHAIN' ridiculous, but '....are you serious?' ridiculous.
You call people that wait in line tards?? Thats like a robber complaining that his victims cry to much.
Yeah, I do, because they are completely useless wastes of space that could otherwise be helping win the fight. Which would I rather have on my team, a player who will at least try and contribute to the fight by participating, or some moron who spends his time in some laughable dope-ass BF2 practice that should never have made its way to this mod?
So you steal his plane instead of helping your team in a tank, thereby making him wait in line again? Yeah, that sounds like a good solution. I believe you care as little for the team as he does but you are to lazy to stand in line.
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There seems to be a common misconception that there is something like waiting lines in the bases.
Who enters a vehicle first gets it. I always go facepalm when people whine about their vehicle "being stolen" and they "had been waiting for 5 minutes". Well, they'd better defend a flag than swing their balls on the airfield all the time.
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Most respected community members (most people with any kind of recognizable tag in their name, as well as forum members) usually respect the lines. Or, at least, they may give you a turn if you ask politely in the chat. You can't count on this behavior from random pubbies, but it doesn't hurt to ask for a turn anyway.
Or, if you happen to be blessed with a better ping than the other people waiting in line, you can hold "e" and the server should recognize your "enter vehicle" command before the others with higher ping. But that pisses people off, and may lead them to...undesirable behavior (for example, them putting a bullet through your skull and flying off in the plane you "stole" from them). Best to try to reason with them before resorting to swiping the equipment from them in this way. Of course, never stoop to actually shooting at friendlies on purpose, that will just get you banned from the few populated servers (there's less than a dozen servers that actually frequently sport full populations).
Personally, I almost always spawn on the airfield in any map with planes, but if they are taken and/or there are several people waiting on the airfield for them, I usually run to the main part of the base and do something useful, like taking a tank to the front lines or manning arty. Of course, there are times I just want to fly and I occasionally fall back on my 30ms ping (at least, that's my ping on WOLF lately, on WaW I usually ping at 50-80ms, and the few times I play on Euro servers I usually top off at 120-150ms) to get an aircraft before others, but I usually give it up after I die and let the other people have a go at it.
There technically is no set procedure for who get what equipment, other than who presses "E" fastest (or, if everyone is holding "E", whoever has the fastest connection). However, I've found at least some people will give other people a chance if only you ask politely. There are always going to be jerks who hog the equipment, but you can always find something interesting to do if none of the "omg awesomesauce" equipment is available. If you build a reputation for hogging equipment yourself, however, I wouldn't expect anyone to hand it over nicely, unless you also build a reputation for kicking ass and taking names in said equipment. Even then, people might not forfeit the shinies to you.
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What really annoys me, are those tards who first go grab an g43 or stg, then jump into a panzer, just to get blown up 3min's later..
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Most respected community members (most people with any kind of recognizable tag in their name, as well as forum members) usually respect the lines. Or, at least, they may give you a turn if you ask politely in the chat. You can't count on this behavior from random pubbies, but it doesn't hurt to ask for a turn anyway.
Or, if you happen to be blessed with a better ping than the other people waiting in line, you can hold "e" and the server should recognize your "enter vehicle" command before the others with higher ping. But that pisses people off, and may lead them to...undesirable behavior (for example, them putting a bullet through your skull and flying off in the plane you "stole" from them). Best to try to reason with them before resorting to swiping the equipment from them in this way. Of course, never stoop to actually shooting at friendlies on purpose, that will just get you banned from the few populated servers (there's less than a dozen servers that actually frequently sport full populations).
Personally, I almost always spawn on the airfield in any map with planes, but if they are taken and/or there are several people waiting on the airfield for them, I usually run to the main part of the base and do something useful, like taking a tank to the front lines or manning arty. Of course, there are times I just want to fly and I occasionally fall back on my 30ms ping (at least, that's my ping on WOLF lately, on WaW I usually ping at 50-80ms, and the few times I play on Euro servers I usually top off at 120-150ms) to get an aircraft before others, but I usually give it up after I die and let the other people have a go at it.
There technically is no set procedure for who get what equipment, other than who presses "E" fastest (or, if everyone is holding "E", whoever has the fastest connection). However, I've found at least some people will give other people a chance if only you ask politely. There are always going to be jerks who hog the equipment, but you can always find something interesting to do if none of the "omg awesomesauce" equipment is available. If you build a reputation for hogging equipment yourself, however, I wouldn't expect anyone to hand it over nicely, unless you also build a reputation for kicking ass and taking names in said equipment. Even then, people might not forfeit the shinies to you.
I usually respect the rules but if someone has had the Stuka for like 4 spawns on Mareth then I think it's enough and I want to have some fun too so I also get in line and spam my E-button. Flyboys also have to share their goodness :P
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What really annoys me, are those tards who first go grab an g43 or stg, then jump into a panzer, just to get blown up 3min's later..
So true, i hate it so much when someone grabs sniper in front of me, then i am like "ok ill take the firefly" then he runs into my firefly with his sniper and get blown after 10 meters.
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I never spawn at any airfield, so I can't tell how the "most respected forum members" behave there, anyways, it usually are not "respected forum members" or other known names from the hslan-forum or something that bitch about it.
If I spawn at a backward flag at all, I look if there's a tank unused, and if yes, I enter it.
If there's nothing at all I wait for one or two minutes, if nothing happens I grab the next Blitz spawning and move back to the flag as I have seen so many maps being utterly lost and, asking myself why and looking on the map, seeing half the team doing the duckie dance in the main bases.
And yeah, I don't know who those "most respected forum members" are, however, if I see someone standing at a vehicle spawn point, I usually don't bother them, as a.) then there'd be two people waiting for a vehicle and missing at the front and b.) I don't play to take others fun.
There's nothing wrong with someone dieing with his Panther, spawning back in the mainbase and manning it two minutes later if he uses it properly, I just get annoyed when ~10 people are scattered over the mainbase and the airfield and don't do anything because they are all camping for some vehicle.
But yeah, I agree, the biggest jackasses are those driving tanks with useful special kits.
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I must confess that I am addicted to flying in FH2.
As far as I am concerned there is no etiquette with regards to vehicles and planes. He who spams E, wins.
It's different with players that from which I know they can handle a plane or at least have the sense to be a wingman.
Yesterday I had a great time with HSLAN.Irishfolk flying together and covering each other back.
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I always wondered how come people get the impression that there is a line in the first place. Someone jumps in a vehicle you were waiting for? Well that's sad. Now, dry you tears yo big sissy and get to the front line pronto! There will be another time to check out a tiger/typhoon/whatever in the near future.
Waiting for a certain vehicle to die and respawn is just wasting your time on being bored. Tip: watch the map and if the number of shown tanks/planes is lower than maximum, it's a good time for taking one in the main/other flag.
Flying physics? Personally I'm not a big fan of the current setting (speed is fine but turning speed is not) so I stay on the ground, making newbies happy that they have one guy less to share a plane with. I really miss the times when I had to really practice to be a good pilot (CAS mostly, I sucked at dogfights) and not everyon could just hop in and wreck havoc on the battlefield. I'm still for changes in this department but it's not my decision to make.
Suddenly flying stopped to be fun for me as the challenge level dropped.
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I'm never going to fly again any time soon (still a huge amount of BF2 'tards that arrived with the latest patch who bitch about 'omg you cut in line!!1'), so I can't really complain about the physics. But, in Totalize anyways, I was literally laughing out loud at how absolutely ridiculous the planes looked in the air. I don't mean 'wow, that is off the CHAIN' ridiculous, but '....are you serious?' ridiculous.
You call people that wait in line tards?? Thats like a robber complaining that his victims cry to much.
Yeah, I do, because they are completely useless wastes of space that could otherwise be helping win the fight. Which would I rather have on my team, a player who will at least try and contribute to the fight by participating, or some moron who spends his time in some laughable dope-ass BF2 practice that should never have made its way to this mod?
So you steal his plane instead of helping your team in a tank, thereby making him wait in line again? Yeah, that sounds like a good solution. I believe you care as little for the team as he does but you are to lazy to stand in line.
Wow, so why is he entitled to that vehicle? Was his name on it? I also adore how he, according to you, has no choice but to just sit on his ass and wait for another one to spawn. Where the hell are you getting these ideas about entitlement? Is this a result of all the BF2-'tards arriving with 2.2? And this isn't even about vehicle 'stealing' (despite what they may think, NO ONE has a vehicle all to themselves), it's about being a complete waste of life by staying in a goddamned line of all things.
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I always wondered how come people get the impression that there is a line in the first place. Someone jumps in a vehicle you were waiting for? Well that's sad. Now, dry you tears yo big sissy and get to the front line pronto! There will be another time to check out a tiger/typhoon/whatever in the near future.
Waiting for a certain vehicle to die and respawn is just wasting your time on being bored. Tip: watch the map and if the number of shown tanks/planes is lower than maximum, it's a good time for taking one in the main/other flag.
Flying physics? Personally I'm not a big fan of the current setting (speed is fine but turning speed is not) so I stay on the ground, making newbies happy that they have one guy less to share a plane with. I really miss the times when I had to really practice to be a good pilot (CAS mostly, I sucked at dogfights) and not everyon could just hop in and wreck havoc on the battlefield. I'm still for changes in this department but it's not my decision to make.
Suddenly flying stopped to be fun for me as the challenge level dropped.
Yes thats true, you made happy newbies, taking fun from guys like tiny, ilonizer and me.
Do you know how precious is to take down good pilot after 15min Dogfight?
You probably dont.
He cant tell that your plane was better, he cant tell that you had luck, he wont say anything. He know that he got killed by pure skill and months of practise.
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I'm never going to fly again any time soon (still a huge amount of BF2 'tards that arrived with the latest patch who bitch about 'omg you cut in line!!1'), so I can't really complain about the physics. But, in Totalize anyways, I was literally laughing out loud at how absolutely ridiculous the planes looked in the air. I don't mean 'wow, that is off the CHAIN' ridiculous, but '....are you serious?' ridiculous.
You call people that wait in line tards?? Thats like a robber complaining that his victims cry to much.
Yeah, I do, because they are completely useless wastes of space that could otherwise be helping win the fight. Which would I rather have on my team, a player who will at least try and contribute to the fight by participating, or some moron who spends his time in some laughable dope-ass BF2 practice that should never have made its way to this mod?
So you steal his plane instead of helping your team in a tank, thereby making him wait in line again? Yeah, that sounds like a good solution. I believe you care as little for the team as he does but you are to lazy to stand in line.
Wow, so why is he entitled to that vehicle? Was his name on it? I also adore how he, according to you, has no choice but to just sit on his ass and wait for another one to spawn. Where the hell are you getting these ideas about entitlement? Is this a result of all the BF2-'tards arriving with 2.2? And this isn't even about vehicle 'stealing' (despite what they may think, NO ONE has a vehicle all to themselves), it's about being a complete waste of life by staying in a goddamned line of all things.
In BF2 people used to kill for planes and queues were nowhere so I dont see why you are on about "bf2 tards arguing about lines" all the time. I would say your opinion that lines are to be broken are more BF than mine. I havent played BF2 for years anyway if thats what you are implying, maybe you still play and can tell me how lines work in vanilla. I was here a year ago but I lacked interest the last six months until normandy. The "entitlement" to an asset is based solely on one thing: courtesy. If someone has taken their time
to wait for something several minutes it is very rude to take it under their noses. I dont push in line to the burger stand so why do it in the virtual world. If there is no entitlement, is it ok to take tanks when someone is repairing them? Hey, the loser was stupid enough to get out right? I guess this sense of courtesy is something I and many others are raised with.
However, I too take planes from people sometimes, but only if they have done something that angers me, such as taking a plane I was waiting for. A tip on how to be useful while waiting for a plane is to man the AA gun. Also, I can understand the argument that waiting is bad for the team. However, we are talking about planes here. Flying is very different from anything else, and if im in the flying mood that usually means my ground game stink and vice versa. It is not like the plane is just another asset like a different kind of tank. Its two distinctly different mindsets that I cant succesfully mix togheter. If I start Fh2 to fly planes, I dont go running with a gun, and if I start playing to go infantry fighting I leave the planes altogheter. Those are too very different playstyles, almost like two different games. I dont play COD4 when I want to play IL2, the same with planes and ground fighting in fh2.
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So let's be courteous to the waste of bandwidth. Hah. And you restrict yourself to a single playstyle? Double hah. You're not coming off as a particularly valuable asset to your team. Add you're still deviating from the original topic.
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So let's be courteous to the waste of bandwidth. Hah. And you restrict yourself to a single playstyle? Double hah. You're not coming off as a particularly valuable asset to your team. Add you're still deviating from the original topic.
On the other hand people that fly for an entire round usually does much better than the random guy that just occasionally jump in a plane and doesnt care too much if he gets shot down because there is always another tank or something to take. Yes, I agree we are deviating from the original topic, lets end this discussion.
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Rather than create a new topic I searched the 29 pages of threads and chose this 'already started' topic to post my Question in. Plus my question, while important to me, is negligible for a lot of FH2 players, and I am pretty sure it's been discussed before, but I have forgotten (hope2) the response...
Landing the stukka and beaufighter - why is it that their weight is in the nose, and often if you come in too slow you can nose-prop the plane without a real way of righting it again unless you run full throttle into a rock and hope that it doesn't blow you up, or you get out and destroy it yourself.
I've yet to successfully land the beaufighter on Mareth Line without nose-propping it or taking some heavy damage by slamming it into the hangar. On the same map - landing the stukka is much the same, but obviously with a smaller plane, less likely to happen.
I'd like to suggest a possible fix/alternative but without remembering the reasons why (beyond BF2 engines doesn't support propeller planes douche!) I can't do that of course.
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Landing the Stuka on Mareth is useless because the German runway doesn't repair planes, better to slowly fly over the airstrip to rearm then.
Anyway, landing the nose heavy planes is often easiest if you get really low (3 meters off the ground), cut the throttle and basically let the plane stall out and drop onto the runway, rather than trying to land at any kind of speed. Works for the Spitfire too, but for a different reason: The Spit's landing gear doesn't want to deploy until you're really low and slow anyway, while other planes deploy landing gear in tight turns if you slow down too much.
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People will shoot me down - But I think, either we allow a longer angle of freelook - or personally I say, put external views back in: Chase cam, fly-by, nose-cam and a further front-cam. We don't seem to be able to get FH1 plane experience ever again - sadly - We might as well get what we can from it - fluidity in flight... Call it the equivalent of crosshairs for planes - For gameplay and YES, immersive gameplay - I always used to fly, changing views, the way I can imagine, a pilot would fly looking around him for bogies and to get a sense of situational awareness...
I really think more internal discussion must go into considering this - Just beta-test it and see
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I always used to fly, changing views, the way I can imagine, a pilot would fly looking around him for bogies and to get a sense of situational awareness...
That's the thing, a pilot in real life would only have roughly 180 degrees of frontal freedom (left to right) to look around him due to cockpit restraints. If anything, the way it is now is actually very arcade-ish; if historical, you should have nothing but the cockpit view and that is it.
The 109 cockpit for example was nearly shoulder to shoulder in length, making rear visibility nearly impossible on some of the earlier versions of the 109 unless you actually forced a turn left or right to look. (Later versions sorta corrected this, but it was still cramped). Rear view camera actually simplifies this to an extreme amount and frontal cams would only make it more simplified. Bottom line is that if you want the extra camera views just to get the experience of what a real pilot would have saw, then you should probably only have the cockpit view and that is it.
As for the plane physics, yes they are wonky, but with the absence of gravity it is about the only thing we can do to make sure that one side is not too overpowered. The Spitfire in code still out turns the 109 and the 109 is still a tad faster than the spit.
Now before you say, "Well dogfights were good in 2.0, 2.1 and 2.15" the only reason this is so is because the hit boxes were so distorted due to the 1.41 BF2 patch that it actually required either a dead 6 o'clock shot to register hits or a shot with no more than 10 degrees of lead. Obviously since then, the hit boxes have been corrected in 1.50. If we switched to the way things were back in those three patches, then 8 times out of 10 the balance of power would switch to the Spitfire's favor since the 109 can neither out climb it (Lack of gravity) nor out turn it (Plane limitations).
The only reason that this worked in the earlier patches was because the 109 could not out turn the spitfire to get a clean shot (Plane limitations again) and the Spitfire could not register a hit on a spiral climbing 109 due to the fact that his hit box was so distorted by the time he was a second and a half into his spiral climb. After that, it was only a matter of time before the 109 climbed away due to his speed advantage.
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People will shoot me down - But I think, either we allow a longer angle of freelook - or personally I say, put external views back in: Chase cam, fly-by, nose-cam and a further front-cam. We don't seem to be able to get FH1 plane experience ever again - sadly - We might as well get what we can from it - fluidity in flight... Call it the equivalent of crosshairs for planes - For gameplay and YES, immersive gameplay - I always used to fly, changing views, the way I can imagine, a pilot would fly looking around him for bogies and to get a sense of situational awareness...
I really think more internal discussion must go into considering this - Just beta-test it and see
When you drive a car, do you get situational awarness of all things that are in 2 meter range from your car? I think it's the opposite - close objects are harder to register. Hoovering camera simulates jack shit (scuse me for my french) and only makes things easier to do.
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Now before you say, "Well dogfights were good in 2.0, 2.1 and 2.15" the only reason this is so is because the hit boxes were so distorted due to the 1.41 BF2 patch that it actually required either a dead 6 o'clock shot to register hits or a shot with no more than 10 degrees of lead. Obviously since then, the hit boxes have been corrected in 1.50. If we switched to the way things were back in those three patches, then 8 times out of 10 the balance of power would switch to the Spitfire's favor since the 109 can neither out climb it (Lack of gravity) nor out turn it (Plane limitations).
The only reason that this worked in the earlier patches was because the 109 could not out turn the spitfire to get a clean shot (Plane limitations again) and the Spitfire could not register a hit on a spiral climbing 109 due to the fact that his hit box was so distorted by the time he was a second and a half into his spiral climb. After that, it was only a matter of time before the 109 climbed away due to his speed advantage.
I'm a bit puzzled with what you say, because I didn't experience that at all in the "old" versions.
If one spiral climbing manoeuver could save a plane in 2.15, that's the Spitfire, not the 109. And the Spit could save its skin precisely because it had a better turning rate than the 109, nothing to do with the hit box.
Then, if I remember well the 109 could disengage by ascending sharply at the right moment. It didn't work everytime but if the spit's pilot didn't react instantly then you could somewhat follow the 109 but not set your aiming sight on the 109 (you couldn't ascend sharply enough for that), thus not kill it.
In 2.15, the best way for a 109 to kill its target was to appear in its back, fall from the clouds or engage it frontally and kill it at once. The hit box improvement makes the fight easier for it, right, but currently what I notice is that whatever the circumstances are, whatever the manoeuvers you achieve in order to escape, 109s are ALWAYS in your 6 ...
So you can't say everything is the hit box's fault. ;)
And anyway if it was hit box only related, there would be an easy fix: increase the hit points of planes, and maybe the medium & heavy AA guns damage to keep them a proper strength.
There are only benefits from this:
- Dogfights may last longer
- Fighters would be less vulnerable to tank machine guns (that are more effcient than AA guns sometimes ...)
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Rather than create a new topic I searched the 29 pages of threads and chose this 'already started' topic to post my Question in. Plus my question, while important to me, is negligible for a lot of FH2 players, and I am pretty sure it's been discussed before, but I have forgotten (hope2) the response...
Landing the stukka and beaufighter - why is it that their weight is in the nose, and often if you come in too slow you can nose-prop the plane without a real way of righting it again unless you run full throttle into a rock and hope that it doesn't blow you up, or you get out and destroy it yourself.
I've yet to successfully land the beaufighter on Mareth Line without nose-propping it or taking some heavy damage by slamming it into the hangar. On the same map - landing the stukka is much the same, but obviously with a smaller plane, less likely to happen.
I'd like to suggest a possible fix/alternative but without remembering the reasons why (beyond BF2 engines doesn't support propeller planes douche!) I can't do that of course.
Before you land tilt the nose up, most lawndarts land with the plane being fully horizontal.
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plz plz plz get those cam views back in game, it might be not the most realistic way, but it will improve the gameplay alot!
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Alright this thread has served its purpose. Comments like the one above are not needed. If anyone has any thoughtful, and well planned out suggestions regarding the aircraft in FH2, you can make another post, but until then, no whining.