Point Du Hoc Counter Attack?

[Ekalbs]

I was on a server and this map came up? But when i check my map files it doesent appear? Any explanation devs or anyone?

[Ts4EVER]

It's the 32 player veriosn of PdH.

[Thorondor123]

It's the "32" player version.

[Ekalbs]

Ahh thank you....thats a little strange but what ever.....

[Natty]

I was on a server and this map came up? But when i check my map files it doesent appear? Any explanation devs or anyone?

Localization name

[Ionizer]

By the way, even though it's supposed to be for 64 people (apparently) it is almost impossible for the Axis to get past the first flag if the Americans are at all competent.  WOLF had to pull it from it's 64 player rotation because it always got bogged down on that first flag.

Anyway, I refused to call it "32" Point du Hoc, because I was told it was made for a full server of 64 people.  So, when WOLF was running it, I would announce it as "Point du Hoc Counter Attack up next" or "Counter Attack version of Point du Hoc is the next map."  That may have led to your confusion Ekalbs.  (I was the person who suggested the map rotation that included it with the 64 player maps, so I kinda had the rotation memorized and would try to announce the next map while I was playing.)

Anyway, I liked that map.  There aren't a lot of maps where the Germans are on the offensive in Normandy, it's kind of a different experience.  I think it's the only Normandy Push map with the Germans on the offensive, actually.

[Lobo]

Could you tell wich are the imbalancing issues, in your opinion?
This version was finished in the last moment and wasn't tested in depth like all the other maps

[Ionizer]

To be honest, I only played it with a full server twice, but the other WOLF regulars who played it more often didn't like it.

I can say that with 32 people in such a confined space, (the Farm), it's hard for the Germans to advance across the open field under such intense fire (an open field with bottlenecks even getting into it [the hedgerow openings], mind you).  It is possible to flank around, but it's very difficult to get that level of Teamwork in pubby play (at most you get one squad trying to flank, it seems).  And even if the Germans do get a few guys into the flag zone, the flag doesn't move because there are 32 Americans also in the flag zone.  This isn't a problem in the 64 player version, because you have Americans advancing to the Homestead (it's uncap on "32" version, so they don't advance), and trying to get the guns (obviously not there in this version), with only one squad (if you're lucky) actually defending the Farm.

The StUG and Hanomags help (until the Hanomags are eventually captured by the Americans and turned against the Germans), but they are either destroyed or abandoned too fast.  The lack of a real sniper rifle for the Germans also hurts (the K98 ZF41 doesn't even zoom enough to get the best LOD on some of the Farm buildings from the hedgerows, which means there are enemies shooting out of windows that you can't see are there [the windows don't show up past a certain LOD]).

Not to mention that several people expected to see the cliffs on PdH, and were disappointed when it starts the other way around.  I think the Teamwork aspect might have improved once people got the hang of the different version, but it was (in my opinion) unfortunately pulled before this could happen.  There were also a few complaints in game about not being able to scale the cliffs and destroy the guns, from both casual players and veteran/"hardcore" players.

[hslan.totaler_humbug]

Another problem is the allied weapon superiority. On the 64p Version it was finde, because the allied needed those semi-automatic weapons in order to advance. But when they have to defend its easy for them to just pin down the germans with their weapons.
Maybe feature it as an counterattack of better equiped german troops (like on PHL) after the garnision (the germans in the 64p version) was defeted. That could do a lot of improvement.

[Professor Anthrax]

Another problem is the allied weapon superiority. On the 64p Version it was finde, because the allied needed those semi-automatic weapons in order to advance. But when they have to defend its easy for them to just pin down the germans with their weapons.
Maybe feature it as an counterattack of better equiped german troops (like on PHL) after the garnision (the germans in the 64p version) was defeted. That could do a lot of improvement.

Yeah This ^^

When I'm german I do not look forward to using my bolt action k98 against an american armed with a semi-auto M-1 Garand. And don't even get me started with mp40 vs. BAR. The Americans need their superior weapons to advance on this map(in the 64 version); but it's almost impossible for germans to advance when the allies start out with all the flags.

[THeTA0123]

but the germans get a StuG     and its ALWAYS doing something complety not doing its job. I played the map several times, and saw the germans winning aswel.

The STuG is vital

[sheikyerbouti]

 i like the counter attack version alot. Apart from on the WOLF server, I haven't seen many complaints about it. (mind you I have only been able to play it a handful of times with more than 32 players.)

 I do agree that flanking does become difficult for the Germans but that could be improved by either widening the map or putting in a couple of dummy flag positions so the Germans get more places to spawn from (further increasing flanking opportunities). It also wouldn't hurt to make the roads more passable so the Stug and the Hanomag's could better maneuvre to provide fire support.

With respect to fire support, I appreciate the overwhelming Allied fire superiority but I would love to see some balance introduced for the German's. My 2 choices to increase German playability would be to put in the gebalte Ladung (for massive dispersal of American squad attacks) and a German flamethrower kit (for clearing out some of the buildings and hedgerows).

[THeTA0123]

What about some balance for the 64P of PDH for the americans?

[Hockeywarrior]

I think moving the spawn points for the Americans farther back would also help things out alot. With the Germans struggling just to get within distance of the flag they can't hope to compete with the US who spawns close to the flag and can get into position quickly, even if they die.

Also, making it look like a "different map" would be nice. Like instead of making it PDH's 32 player version (with 64 players) make it a new map altogether and call it "Point du Hoc Counterattack" so people know for sure that it's a different map.

[Ekalbs]

I think moving the spawn points for the Americans farther back would also help things out alot. With the Germans struggling just to get within distance of the flag they can't hope to compete with the US who spawns close to the flag and can get into position quickly, even if they die.

Also, making it look like a "different map" would be nice. Like instead of making it PDH's 32 player version (with 64 players) make it a new map altogether and call it "Point du Hoc Counterattack" so people know for sure that it's a different map.

i would like that alot, it gives a new map and no confusion....also its funny to have "armour" on the 32 version and not the 64.