Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Africa maps => Feedback => Operation Supercharge => Topic started by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 12:03:55

Title: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 12:03:55
"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: [11PzG]matyast on 29-03-2009, 23:03:15
Needs more transportation in my opinion. Too much walking for the infantry if there isn't a truck about. Maybe add trucks, they are easy targets anyway, but at least faster than walking.

Also...the city seems to be very unused. I think I have seen the Allied capture it only once. Most of the time, the fight is between the front 2 flags (excluding the flag near the south east). And even if the Allied push the axis back to the city, aproaching the damn thing is extremely difficult. Getting close enough, with a truck or a jeep is very hard. The only possibility is to use a tank, which have a habit of dying because of the axis tanks and AT guns. But even then, that doesn;t mean you can place the infantry inside the city with ease.  With the current ticket settings, I doubt many teams can push straight until the end.

This is just my 2 cents, how do you guys feel about it?
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Kubador on 30-03-2009, 22:03:44
Maybe instead of giving more trucks just make them 'die' faster when left alone. Many people just get into truck to drive alone... Also I suggest to make tanks respawn for allies in a way axis have on alam halfa.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: djinn on 02-04-2009, 11:04:51
I hate the town as it is. All the buildings come together to form nothing more than 2 roads in, making it a potential meat grinder. If the town could be made more elaborate... Maybe it could even accomodate Tanks on some narrow raods in, or hanve them bust a wall from the side once the German tanks are defeated. I feel the jewel is the town and its under represented..... A bit more complex, a bit more urban combat style..... And definitely allowing tank support like in COD2.... But with so many ups and downs and narrow streets that tanks will be serious trouble if they went in without infantry support.

The 88 site is fine, but I love 88 defences and it feels these are so out of the way, allies can decide to avoid them altogether.... I'd love a situation where the allies had to move in against strong defenses and need coordinated effort, suppression fire and heavy casualties to take such a position, rather than just flanking it... And then there is the sand storm - Also so out of the way


I also think the dunes should be a bit more subtle in some places. I can't tell you how often I've tipped a tank because of the dips and climbs.... I'm not sure about anybody else, but It can't help gameplay.

Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: General_Henry on 31-05-2009, 03:05:53
... Also I suggest to make tanks respawn for allies in a way axis have on alam halfa.

great suggestion!, once the allied cap everything but the town the tanks/trucks..etc should spawn "closer"(but perhaps "fewer") , perhaps in the Town in Rahmen...


we definitely need a tank in town to make the fight more interesting. there's not much worry of tank raping as a ladung 3kg from top of a building is gonna claim it anyway.

but one thing the devs worry might not be allied tanks running into the town but axis tanks camping in it.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Cory the Otter on 16-06-2009, 15:06:21
WELL, El Daba was much larger, and El daba needs to see much more action, and needs to be much bigger than it is.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Slayer on 16-06-2009, 18:06:17
Which will turn the map into half-urban combat, unbalancing the character of the map itself. I'm against this suggestion.

Btw: the distance betweeen the German airfields and Crete was also much larger, and there is a good reason this distance isn't realistically portrayed in FH2. So keep that in mind for El Daba as well.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Capten_C on 16-07-2009, 01:07:19
Is there a known reason why this map seems to crash all the time? 
Is it a game bug? Or the Server? Is it fixable?  ???
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: djinn on 27-09-2009, 23:09:02
I think El Daba SHOULD be larger... Don't forget this was the first map that was released... and perhaps the actual first map ever done and so it didn't make use of FH2's complete sense of style... its kinda a strike average between where Fh0.7 left off and where FH2 is now... and so it does feel scaled... Crete, not so much, save for the ocean, but this one DOES.. and like I said earlier, El Daba in this map is basically an overgloried two streets town, no matter how you swerve in and out of side roads, you always end up on those two streets -

I'd really like the sandstorm playing a bigger role, as with the 88s, underground trenching and caves and open tank terrain... with the dunes, this area is limited to infront of El Daba, close the Brit base, perhaps near the 88s and that's it


AI in this map
  I personally hate this map, almost as much as Arbedeen. But if there must be something fixed...
It does'nt play THAT bad for tanks, and infantry do make an appearance, but vehicle use plagues this level badly

Basically:
Stuka handling is a no-brainer

More aggessive Me109 if possible
mgs in 88 base could do more work

AI strategy for Germans changed so that they don't try to attack the Brits at start - The should hold what they got .. this will make the German mobile AT more strategic @ the first fights and perhaps have the bots @ that base spawn in the cave so that they defend the flag more directly... with a few spawning outside

bots need to use ATs agaisnt tanks, and I mean ALL ATs from the first base to the last.. many go completely unused, especially the first foward base

PZIIIs in most foward bases go almost unused... and a base can be capped by the Brits with German tanks completely intact

Bots should use the Chevy as a simple transport with firing as they go and not as a mobile MG platform to stop them camping outside the town...


General AI changes
Use of AI which lets defenders NOT attack once they have all bases...

As always
Bots don't use 25Pdr and mortars



Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: w00ter2 on 12-11-2009, 17:11:52
It seems this map continually crashes after the new patch. Also, possibly the best improvement would be to change the bleed system so the axis bleeds once gazel is capped by the brits. This map is rarely won simply because there is no bleed until one of the city flags is capped.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: General_Henry on 17-11-2009, 15:11:31
It seems this map continually crashes after the new patch. Also, possibly the best improvement would be to change the bleed system so the axis bleeds once gazel is capped by the brits. This map is rarely won simply because there is no bleed until one of the city flags is capped.

but given that the brits have so many equipments and huge ticket advantage...
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 02-02-2010, 16:02:43
This map misses a churchill MK III  :D ;)
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: psykfallet on 13-02-2010, 14:02:42
this map crashes on (apparently) random times, anyone looking into this?
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Capten_C on 13-02-2010, 16:02:56
I don't know if there's anything in it, not that it's been played often recently so I'm going from memory but it only seems to crash when the server is FULL, I'm sure I've played it many a time when it's half full and you get to complete a whole round. There's something about it which a makes it one of the thrilling maps, pity it's a CTD'er.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: General Tso on 13-02-2010, 19:02:06
I agree, it seems to crash on full or nearly full servers.  I have it happen to me twice since 2.25.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Mobilis_in_Mobili on 13-02-2010, 20:02:06
My team was advancing (on a mostly full server); when it crashed for everyone.  :(
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Moreke on 24-08-2010, 20:08:33
It's possible to go past the tank obstacles at Aqqaqir. An enemy sherman was at it for a while, but he did finally get through and climbed the hill, proceeding straight to the flag. I'm talking about the northern obstacles. Unfortunately, I don't have a screenshot.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Slayer on 25-08-2010, 21:08:54
Thanks Moreke, I tested it myself and reported it on the internal forums.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 25-08-2010, 23:08:04
this makes things even harder for the allies  :(

something is missing in the allied arsenal

and no, it issent a churchill
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 29-12-2010, 12:12:45
Yesterday we played supercharge.

For once, we had a fully cooperating allied team, and things where going good.

We captured all the flags exept the last 2....
Yet i noticed=There was zero german bleed on tickets.

We had 6 flags, they had 2(clearly shown in the top right)
The germans should get a bleed if they are down to 3 flags
and some extra tanks aswel
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: TBZ` on 02-03-2011, 11:03:41
were the servers crashes fixed with 2.3?
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: DLFReporter on 02-03-2011, 11:03:53
were the servers crashes fixed with 2.3?

Haven't played it in a long time, but afaik yes they were.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 02-03-2011, 12:03:10
Played Op supercharge several times on Hslan. No server crashes
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Kelmola on 02-03-2011, 21:03:40
were the servers crashes fixed with 2.3?

Haven't played it in a long time, but afaik yes they were.
The server crash was due to the coding of Opel Blitz with the twin MG's (which also caused Cobra to crash). You may have noticed it has been replaced in both maps by one armed with the FlaK 38 instead.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Gunnerz on 13-04-2011, 20:04:59
It seems this map continually crashes after the new patch. Also, possibly the best improvement would be to change the bleed system so the axis bleeds once gazel is capped by the brits. This map is rarely won simply because there is no bleed until one of the city flags is capped.

+1

Ive noticed this too.

Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Natty on 04-08-2011, 13:08:23
It seems this map continually crashes after the new patch. Also, possibly the best improvement would be to change the bleed system so the axis bleeds once gazel is capped by the brits. This map is rarely won simply because there is no bleed until one of the city flags is capped.

+1

Ive noticed this too.

It's being done  :)
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: :| Hi on 04-08-2011, 20:08:06
Notice the date stamp on that latest quote xD

Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: LuckyOne on 26-12-2011, 13:12:13
So, about my Suggestion to open up OOB areas for planes on this map? Can it be done? I feel the flying zone on this map is too small and you constantly find yourself near OOB when trying to maneuver.

Also it might be a good idea to make Allies bleed again as long as the Axis still hold the town, but give them a bit more tickets... This would lead to them trying to actually push in the town instead of camping outside which gets boring fast and turns into a stalemate.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Natty on 03-01-2012, 07:01:21
Alot of the stuff mentioned in this thread have been implemented. Thx for feedback :)
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: LuckyOne on 15-07-2012, 22:07:40
Bishop is hard to use effectively (in its intended artillery role). The lack of fixed Allied artillery makes this map a lot harder for them. But I need to play some more to provide more constructive feedback.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: TASSER on 05-10-2012, 00:10:40
I with LuckyOne, the bishops are really tough to use and the British support fire really suffers. This could be balanced out with one Bishop and one 25lber or adding a mortar kit to main.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Natty on 05-10-2012, 11:10:34
The map is updated already for the next patch. Allied won't have to control all three flags to lock the sector, only the 2 southern flags. Spawnpoints also have been moved / re-arranged a bit to make those flags easier to take.

I don't see the point of adding more bombs and arty though, all it leads to is either Teamkills, or that allies just bombs a lot on the flagzones and then have to run fast in and capture it. I rather see an actual tank/ Inf combined fight over the zones, instead of "run in fast and grey the flag before they respawn"...
In my opinion that's a little bit like "hiding" your balance problems.. you make a flag too hard to capture so you're forced to give the attacker a way of killing everyone fast so they can run in and insta-grab the flag, instead of having a real fight over it.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: TASSER on 05-10-2012, 21:10:53
Changing the flag caps for the sector will be a major improvement, thanks for that Natty.

I also see what you're saying about the added firepower, but I think at least a mortar would be an improvement in capturing the southern-most flag. Simply as a way to suppress the defenders on the hill. I don't think it's quite as much a "kill everyone and rush thing," but more a way to give the tanks a way to get up the hill/the infantry a chance to advance along the ridge. There are plenty of bunkers and trenches at the flag for them to hide in, which will add to the survivability aspect.

Currently, the fight for the two southern flags is very difficult, and quite honestly supremely fun. The terrain and approach forces a coordinated tank/infantry assult which I LOVE. It requires some members of the British team to post tanks on AT duty guarding against panzers attacking from the northwest, someone in the mobile AA to guard against stukas, tanks to pin the enemy infantry on the hills down, and avenues of attack for British assult infantry to either cover the tanks advance or go for the capture zone all culminating in climactic hand to hand fighting in the bunkers/trenches to take the flag! Whereas for the German team, there are very useful choke points to lay mines down, plenty of cover to keep your head down against the British onslaught, supporting tanks and planes coming in from the northwest, and the sworn duty to hold out as long as possible to give your team the chance to win or attempt to relieve your encircled countrymen! Brits: clear the flanks and advance on. Germans: build up the defenses and hold out as long as possible. If you love attacking, this is a great map. If you love defending, it is equally as epic. Fantastic map design.

I LOVE the atmosphere of the fighting on this map! ;D Suggestion: this needs to be recreated on more. 8)
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Slayer on 05-10-2012, 22:10:28
Very good description, TASSER. This is why I always mention this flag in threads like "What is the best flag in FH2 to fight over?", at least in a top 3 ranking :)

Let's hope Supercharge plays out better with the sector diminished.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Turkish007 on 10-11-2012, 18:11:44
If you could add some more transport vehicles like the SAS Willys or the Chewy, or just decrease the spawn time. People wait for it to spawn all the time. Also remove one Bishop, and add one Churchill, that would be nice. The second Bishop is useless.  :)
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: gavrant on 10-04-2014, 17:04:23
2.46 changelog for Supercharge 64


Minimap for reference:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/28b72xc.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Berkolok on 08-08-2014, 18:08:29
for 4 years i never seen brits win this map same reason with point du hoc 32 try to capturing single flag is very hard
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 09-03-2015, 13:03:42
Where can i find Stuard tank on this map?It is not in main on begining so I asume it shows up later after some flags are captured?
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 10-03-2015, 23:03:44
I don't think there's a Stuart tank on this map at all.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 11-03-2015, 05:03:04
Stuart is on 16p.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 11-03-2015, 10:03:06
Thanks but why it is not from beginnig?It would be nice.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Kinryu on 28-08-2015, 22:08:51
Panzer III Ausf J is stuck, moving back and forth where it spawns(?) in west Ghazal Stn. I suggest moving it slightly so the AI can figure out how to move.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Not So Civil Engy on 09-03-2016, 16:03:13
I'm digging up this old thread because I still never see the British come close to winning this map.  Supercharge started at 1:00 in the morning, so I think this should be a night time map. This may also increase infantry survivability.

Moved my post to suggestions.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Marder on 08-04-2016, 17:04:52
Let me suggest that this map would need some improvements. Right now is very rare if the british reach El Daba (and fighting there is amazing) because Sidi Abd el Rahman is very hard to take (maybe a bigger cap zone?). Also, if the british take Sidi, it could be uncap.

What do you think?

Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Ronson on 18-04-2016, 22:04:11
Played yet another round where all the allied armour heads off to cap Sidi at the start of the round, leaving less than half the team struggling and failing to cap the southern flags. I've always loved this map for the tough challenge playing as British but it's become impossible lately.

I think just starting Sidi off as uncap might be enough to help focus the map again and encourage more people to head south and southwest to get the job done at the Tells before trying to push on.

Also perhaps pushing back the weird out-of-bounds area northwest of Tell el Aqqaqir to give British inf a chance of cover from the panzers and more scope for a flanking attack.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Ts4EVER on 25-10-2018, 15:10:59
Changelog for 2.54:

- Tweak OOB area to make baserape harder
- delete Panzer III at first flag
- remove spawn points that were inside flagzones, especially in the first part of the map
- Increase flag radius at first flag
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: caeno on 20-07-2019, 14:07:36
I like this map a lot, but most people I talk to dislike this a lot, because... "too hard for allies". Well, I always just reply that allies need to teamplay better... Anyway, here are some suggestions to make it easier.

-Have the axis airforce, or atleast the stuka, spawn with a delay. Just give it a timer at round start? Have it spawn once allies hold both south flags? Something else? The axis have the better planes on this one and with the combination of better planes, AA guns and 88's the initial push to south takes too long ticketwise.

-Remove the trees from Allied airfield or atleast the trees behind the beaufighter. Allied airforce is really slowed down because of the airfield layout and it takes like 3-4 minutes to land, repair and take off with those trees blocking "2-way" movement. If there was no trees, landing the beaufighter would actually be a quicker option to kamikazing it after you dropped bombs and waiting for respawn.

-Do axis really need 4 mobile AA (or is it 3 mobiles... still it's a lot.)? How many does allies have? Allies could use one more atleast, maybe even 2.

-Add another AA gun in allied main base to atleast try to prevent the stuka killing tanks right outside of main. 1 bofors and 1 mobile AA get taken down so easily, that maybe another AA could improve the situation.

-What about making the Ghazal Stn capzone bigger, so it's viable for tanks to cap it aswell? First 3 flags cannot really be capped with tanks - how about making the 4th flag a "tank flag"? Even if the allies manage to cap the first 3, the attack usually gets bogged down at Ghazal. I don't even remember when I've seen fighting in El Daba...

-I also would increase the out of bounds area for planes atleast in the north of the map. Allied planes have a hard time leaving main without being seen or shot at by axis.

-Since the axis rarely bleed on this map - how about making them lose tickets after losing flags? I don't remember the ticket amounts, but just as an example: If axis start with 800 tickets, what about losing 50 tickets from both south flags? As I said, just as an example and I do not remeber the ticket amounts, so don't cling on those numbers and just think about the idea instead of replying to the numbers.
This would make the axis defend the 2 south flags harder, but once greyed, they'd have to choose whether they can cap it back and hold it, or would they risk losing another 50 tickets after it's greyed the 2nd time. This would then lead to the fight possibly moving quicker towards west - which is the "main direction" after all.

-Someone waaaaaaay back in time already mentioned moving Allied tank spawns forward once they cap flags. I agree with that.

-What about making the 3rd flag also uncappable for axis once lost?
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: LuckyOne on 21-07-2019, 23:07:24
The problem with this map is not usually that the Allies can't win (they can, provided they don't get stuck on the 3rd flag) but that the endgame is so utterly boring and consists entirely of grenade spamming in a shoebox sized town.

I don't really have an idea how to fix this but I do have fond memories of this operation depicted in COD2 and there it was a much bigger town with a layout that would make for some interesting urban fighting, even in FH2.
Title: Re: Operation Supercharge 64
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 22-08-2020, 04:08:12
I think TS forgot to post these changes in here.

Changelog for 2.55

-German armor except 1 PIII only spawns once the two southern flags are locked

Changelog for 2.56
- make all flags grey faster
- make the first 4 flags capture easier