Author Topic: Need feedback on Operation Compass  (Read 2916 times)

Offline Torenico

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.632
  • ¡Viva la Revolución!
    • View Profile
Need feedback on Operation Compass
« on: 30-03-2009, 16:03:18 »
Alright. Im planning a new map for FH2.. Battle of Marmarica or Battle of the Camps.

It was a battle between the Allies and the Italians during Operation Compass.


Sadly.. i dont have any picture of that battle.. not maps at all. Wich makes Mapping really hard. The battle was fought near the shore because 2 Ships provided cover for the Allies.

If someone.. can tell me the Vehicle list for both sides.. during the Operation Compass..

Afaik.. the British Had:

Cruiser Tanks
Matildas MkII
Stuarts (?)
Daimler (That ArmouredCar)
Vickers MkVI (Not sure about MkVI)
Hurricanes MkI or MkII (FH2 Version)


And Italians..

Carro Armato L6/40
Carro Armato M13/40

And maybe SemoventeL40 da 47/32



If someone.. can give me pictures and more details.. i would kiss her (I hope is Her)..


This is all i know about the Battle (Thx Wiki)
Spoiler
On the nights of 7 December and 8 December 1940 the Western Desert Force under the command of Major-General Richard O'Connor and comprising British 7th Armoured Division and Indian 4th Infantry Division reinforced by British 16th Infantry Brigade advanced a total of 70 miles (110 km) to their start positions for the attack. The RAF made attacks on Italian airfields destroying or damaging 29 aircraft on the ground.[3] Selby Force, a mixed force of 1,800 under Brigadier A. R. Selby, moved up from Matruh and having stationed a brigade of dummy tanks in the desert as a decoy for the Italian airforce, had by dawn on 9 December taken position a few miles south east of Maktila. In the meantime Maktila had been bombarded by the monitor HMS Terror and the gunboat HMS Aphis, while Sidi Barrani had been shelled by the gunboat HMS Ladybird.[3]

On 9 December, the disposition of the forward Italian fortified positions were as follows: The 1st Libyan Colonial Infantry Division was located at Maktila. The 2nd Libyan Colonial Infantry Division was located at Tummar. The "Maletti Group" was located at Nibiewa. The 4th " 3 January" Blackshirt Division and the Headquarters for the "Libyan Corps" were at Sidi Barrani. The 63rd "Cirene" Infantry Division and the Headquarters for the XXI Corps were located at Sofafi. The 64th "Catanzaro" Infantry Division was located at Buq Buq."[23] The commander of the Italian Tenth Army, General Mario Berti, was on sick leave when the British launched their attack against his forces in Egypt. In his place was General Italo Gariboldi. Gariboldi, the 1st "23 March" Blackshirt Division, and the Headquarters for the Tenth Army were located far from the front lines in Bardia. The Headquarters for the XXIII Corps and the 2nd "28 October" Blackshirt Division were located in Sollum and in the Halfaya Pass area repectively. The 62nd "Marmarica" Infantry Division was located at Sidi Omar to the south of Sollum. By the time Berti arrived back in Libya to resume command, so had the British.

The opening stage of Operation Compass was known by the Italians as the "Battle of the Marmarica".[24] The British knew it as the "Battle of the Camps". The "Battle of the Marmarica" name was derived from the name of the coastal plain where the battle was fought. The "Battle of the Camps" name was derived from the individual Italian camps set up in a defensive line outside of Sidi Barrani.




Also.. another project will be "Battle of Benghazi" or Bhengazi.. that City in Libya.. it would be interesting to see.. Italians Defending an Area like Tunis or something. But im going to reserve this Map for 2.2.
« Last Edit: 30-03-2009, 17:03:52 by Admiral Donutz »


Offline Lightning

  • Dreamcrusher
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.517
  • FH2 Dev
    • View Profile
Re: Need help over here
« Reply #1 on: 30-03-2009, 16:03:26 »
The British had, during Operation Compass, the following vehicles available:

- 2 Pounder
- 25 Pounder
- Universal Carrier
- Bedford Truck OYD
- Daimler Dingo
- Vickers Light Tank MkVI
- A13 Cruiser MkIV
- A12 Matilda III (None used at Beda Fomm)
- Hawker Hurricane (only 1 operational)

The Italians had:
- M13/40 (Only during the later stages, none in the 'battle of the camps')


It's a shame really, but Forgotten Hope 2 is really missing out on a lot of Italian vehicles, which makes it awfully hard to create a map with them, especially a tank map in the early stages of the North African battlefield. It's so bad even, that for early battles, such as the 'battle of the camps' we have no Italians vehicles at all...

« Last Edit: 30-03-2009, 16:03:07 by Lightning »

Offline Admiral Donutz

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 901
  • Betatester
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #2 on: 30-03-2009, 17:03:17 »
Thread title changed rom "Need help overhere" to "Need feedback on Operation Compass".

Offline Schism-RvtL

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #3 on: 30-03-2009, 22:03:07 »
If I were you I’d look for a mid-war battle involving the Italians instead. Those early-war battles are interesting but there are a lot of limits.

These sites might be useful btw:
http://www.comandosupremo.com/
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=75

I wonder why there's no m11/39 in FH2, it could be used in all Italian maps. Even bf1942 had one :(. The CV35 would be interesting as well, especially this type:



Oh well, one obsolete tank more or less wont make much difference i guess ::).

azreal

  • Guest
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #4 on: 30-03-2009, 22:03:02 »
Quote
- Hawker Hurricane (only 1 operational)

Oh man 1 Hurricane during Operation Compass!? I might have to add this back into my Beda Fomm map.

Offline Torenico

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.632
  • ¡Viva la Revolución!
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #5 on: 31-03-2009, 00:03:05 »
Well, damn lol.

Ok.. Benghazi its better because it really dont need Vehicles.. maybe a M13/40 as Backup.. but i really enjoy the Italians Maps.


I will think in another battle.

After all, italy needs more toys.. i was really thinking about a Skin of the Stuka.. since Italians had them in Op. Compass. Also, adding the L6 will unbalance the things.. alot. I really dont know if they can take down a Cruiser.


Ok.. im thinking.. a good map containing Tanks.. whit Italians. Because Benghazi has to wait.


Offline Ts4EVER

  • Banner of THeTA0123
  • Developer
  • ******
  • Posts: 7.812
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #6 on: 31-03-2009, 00:03:24 »
I'm making a map atm (my first one, so it may or may not be finished). It's a rather small infantry centered map modeled after the raid on Meknassy. It will feature Italians against Americans (after 2.2 of course). Perhaps you could find some nice engagement during that time period? We have only 2 Tunisia maps so far.

Offline Torenico

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.632
  • ¡Viva la Revolución!
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #7 on: 31-03-2009, 01:03:58 »
Yes.. i heard about the "Ariete" division defeated the Americans... not sure if it was the Ariete. If tanks were used.. count whit me :D

A kasserine Pass map would be awesome.. for that one i would wait for 2.2 if its not confirmed at all. Im trying to learn better skills.. ofc.. noobies has to start whit desert maps.. since they dont need alot of Buildings. Maybe Overgrought or something and Bases.

I dont know.. i just want an Historical Battle between M13/40 and Cruisers  8)


Btw.. i just found the Real amroured Clash.. Mechili.. where Italians did good succese there. Any info on it?


Offline Neverdies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Beertester
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #8 on: 31-03-2009, 17:03:25 »
good luck torenico!  you rock man :)

Offline Fuchs

  • No lollygagging
  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 6.655
  • Traction Wars Propaganda Officer
    • View Profile
    • Traction Wars - WWII Free to Play Game
Re: Need help over here
« Reply #9 on: 31-03-2009, 19:03:44 »
The British had, during Operation Compass, the following vehicles available:

- 2 Pounder
- 25 Pounder
- Universal Carrier
- Bedford Truck OYD
- Daimler Dingo
- Vickers Light Tank MkVI
- A13 Cruiser MkIV
- A12 Matilda III (None used at Beda Fomm)
- Hawker Hurricane (only 1 operational)

The Italians had:
- M13/40 (Only during the later stages, none in the 'battle of the camps')


It's a shame really, but Forgotten Hope 2 is really missing out on a lot of Italian vehicles, which makes it awfully hard to create a map with them, especially a tank map in the early stages of the North African battlefield. It's so bad even, that for early battles, such as the 'battle of the camps' we have no Italians vehicles at all...



What Italian tanks are missing out which played a major role? I know about the little tankette that also acted as a nasty flamethrower but are there any more? My knowledge about Italian tanks is lacking.
I'm curious what tanks they used at the battle of the camps, if they had any there.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Lightning

  • Dreamcrusher
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.517
  • FH2 Dev
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #10 on: 31-03-2009, 21:03:28 »
As Schism mentioned, the main tank of the Italian army at the time was the M11/39. Other tankettes like the CV33 and 35 were also used.

Offline Fuchs

  • No lollygagging
  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 6.655
  • Traction Wars Propaganda Officer
    • View Profile
    • Traction Wars - WWII Free to Play Game
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #11 on: 31-03-2009, 21:03:23 »
CV33 and CV35, thanks Lightning!  :) I guess you get a kiss now?..
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Torenico

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.632
  • ¡Viva la Revolución!
    • View Profile
Re: Need feedback on Operation Compass
« Reply #12 on: 31-03-2009, 22:03:19 »
So Graziani Army didnt had L6 and M13/40?

i heard they used M13/33 (?) wich was upgraded whit an 37mm Gun.. that one was capable of defeating the UK Tanks but arrived Late afaik.


Also, i heard they used Tank Rush in Op. Compass, large numbers of M13s where used in rushes and they where effective.. until a Matilda arrived heh.