Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Africa maps => Feedback => The Battle for Sfakia => Topic started by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 12:03:09
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"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
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I'd call this map the gem in the crown of FH2.0. Other gemstone quality maps may have come in the patches, but this one will always be there for me.
I would however quite like to see push mode added to it. Im not sure quite how it would work, but I invisage it as thus: To begin, the Germans can only capture the rearguard, west road and upper town. The rearguard is needed to capture the monastry and the command post. The monastry is also linked to the command post to allow brits holed up there to breakout back into the town. The upper town and command post are needed to capture the square. The brits need to hold the square to recap the west road and upper town. The square needs to be taken to make the harbour vulnerable. The rearguard and harbour could be non recapable.
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1416/skafiapush.jpg)
Otherwise, I can't think of much this map could do with (except prehaps a lafette).
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I'm not sure this needs push map. I have often seen two good teams playing against each other; however the germans lost because they capped the flags in the wrong order - so the brits fell into their back, the germans could not defend the flag to all fronts AND cap new flags on that way. It's quite a hectic map already, I fear making it a pushmap might result in a slaughterhouse worse than, I dunno, Battle of Pavlov.
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I think it will be less hectic with a pushmode. But I like hectic maps, so a pushmode is not necessary. Most of the times the game plays out very nicely on this one. And I like to start by conquering West Road, so... ;)
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I usually go for the roadblock. I love fighting along that long valley, even if its only me and the lone brit defending that flag :P
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Hm yes. Not agreeing with push map but with the fact some places would be uncapable when lost for Brits. Rearguard for example. Maybe Monastry too so they got a nice defensive line.
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Well the thing that annoys me the most when I play this map (as Brittish) is that the Germans can sneak through your lines... So I agree with Uranium here although I would suggest to have a double push mode so the fight is devided into two fronts (and the Germans keep there original spawns in this case).
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Haha I had some great fun a couple of times while playing against some 101st guys, don't know if it was you. Hell, I really think I was annoying with that MP40.
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Haha I had some great fun a couple of times while playing against some 101st guys, don't know if it was you. Hell, I really think I was annoying with that MP40.
If it was tonight, yes I was there ;)
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Nope wasn't today. Yesterday I guess.
And what the hell? My post says TODAY 14:00 hours. (plus some minutes) at that moment I was cycling from school to home and I am assured I posted that yesterday.
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Options
1. The forum has a different timezone
2. You gotta reset your timezone to GMT + 2 (summertime)
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It's on my timezone :P I've set those settings when registering.
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Yeah, mine is having the same problem...its odd =/ It's set to pacific, but it still does not show the right times.
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mine never has :S
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Ok guys, more specific map-related discussion please. :)
Re: push mode. I won't add it as the map will lose its chaotic dynamics.
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I would add some 'out of bounds area' in the water between harbor and monastery. Sometimes it kills immersion. Making west road or rearguard (or both) unrecap, maybe more than 1 person capture could stabilize the front a bit. Sneaky 1 man bastards are always annoying.
When I think of any other suggestions I post'em later but it's a hard task as the map is bloody perfect!
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I have got stuck few times in this spot, always when trying to jump down from second floor. I have seen others being stuck there too, only choice being suicide. You get stuck between the wall and the chest thingy.
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/491/sfakia.th.jpg) (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/sfakia.jpg/)
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For AI, this is by far the most solid and challenging map for Germans... but is quite the walkover for Brits... If something could be done to make Germans more aggressive, if even only when in slightly greater numbers, it will be fun defending...
Germans have the advantage of the Mg34, let them use it at long range to suppress and harrass
Germans use potato masher grenades at longer range than Brits - let them make use of this fact for some advantage
Thompsons are/ should be less accurate than MP40s and should make a tactical difference in the flow of the map, to make it challenging for Tommies...
The real balance should be the Bren and Light tank as well some defensive bases like the Temple and town
But it should generally be as difficult for Brits as Germans
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how about a mortar for gerries?
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A mortar pickup - yes yes yes!
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And now a very viable option to make Gerry get something extra in SP/COOp thanks to Drawde
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A few minor bugs i've found
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8534/fh2bugs1.png)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/633/fh2bugs2.png)
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Look what i've found
A photograph of Sfakia:
(http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/greatrisk/images/greece10/G83_greece10.jpg)
You did a bloody good job but i believe it needs more unnecessary trees ;D
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ASWAI6TzAzQ/TCYlJdHM6XI/AAAAAAAAAMM/uyS1u7NQ8tY/S1600-R/%CE%9C%CE%91%CE%93%CE%95%CE%99%CE%A1%CE%95%CE%99%CE%9F%CE%9D+%CE%97+%CE%A9%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%AF%CE%B1+%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%AC%CF%82.gif
Can we add this in game as a street sign?
Restaurant 'Beautiful Hellas'
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Look what i've found
A photograph of Sfakia:
(http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/greatrisk/images/greece10/G83_greece10.jpg)
You did a bloody good job but i believe it needs more unnecessary trees ;D
Already done and coming to a patch near you at some point... ;)
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This map is extremely frustrating and unbalanced. It needs a serious overhaul.
Firstly, push mode should be introduced. Nothing is more frustrating than taking one flag, and then moving onto the next, only for the Brits to back-cap a flag you captured 10 minutes ago. I think gameplay would be greatly enhanced with push mode, as the fighting would be more concentrated, instead of everyone scrambling to every flag.
Secondly, ABC Lines need to be introduced. The British should not be allowed into the mountains at ALL, because as it stands, they can shoot into the German spawns as soon as they start climbing down the hills, especially in their flanking mountains.
Thirdly, cap zones are far too small. At The West Road, it's almost impossible to capture this flag, because the capzone is literally like one meter wide, and there is absolutely no cover around to protect yourself from people shooting miles away from the town, and in the mountains.
Together, these three basic changes will go a long way into improving this map. It's quite a shame really with this map in it's current state, how beautiful it can be, but also how universally loathed it is by the players, just because of the frantic gameplay.
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Firstly, push mode should be introduced.
Push is not the "Let's implement it and then everything will be solved" tool. The variety in the mod is important. Some maps have push, others don't. In my experience it is quite easy for the Germans to push off the allies. Also, Mr Cheese says in this very thread it won't be implemented because it will lose it's chaotic nature. In other words: the mapper wants this fight to be chaotic.
Secondly, ABC Lines need to be introduced. The British should not be allowed into the mountains at ALL, because as it stands, they can shoot into the German spawns as soon as they start climbing down the hills, especially in their flanking mountains.
As far as I know, the terrain itself prevents Brits to go into the mountains. Germans shoot from above to below, way easier than the other way around.
Thirdly, cap zones are far too small. At The West Road, it's almost impossible to capture this flag, because the capzone is literally like one meter wide, and there is absolutely no cover around to protect yourself from people shooting miles away from the town, and in the mountains.
You can cap from inside the building. Stand in the corner and you will cap the flag.
It's quite a shame really with this map in it's current state, how beautiful it can be, but also how universally loathed it is by the players, just because of the frantic gameplay.
I'm really surprised at this. I have never heard a "universal loathing" of Sfakia. Also, in it's "current state": it hasn't been changed much since it got into the mod, so not sure what you mean by that.
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Firstly, push mode should be introduced.
Push is not the "Let's implement it and then everything will be solved" tool. The variety in the mod is important. Some maps have push, others don't. In my experience it is quite easy for the Germans to push off the allies. Also, Mr Cheese says in this very thread it won't be implemented because it will lose it's chaotic nature. In other words: the mapper wants this fight to be chaotic.
This is a feedback thread, not counter everything I say thread. I'm giving suggestions to make the map better, and this is what will make it better.
Secondly, ABC Lines need to be introduced. The British should not be allowed into the mountains at ALL, because as it stands, they can shoot into the German spawns as soon as they start climbing down the hills, especially in their flanking mountains.
As far as I know, the terrain itself prevents Brits to go into the mountains. Germans shoot from above to below, way easier than the other way around.
Incorrect. The British can easily get into the mountains and watch the German spawns. Just yesterday I was spawning in the mountains above The West Road, and then immediately getting shot by 3 Brits in varying places in the mountains beside me.
Thirdly, cap zones are far too small. At The West Road, it's almost impossible to capture this flag, because the capzone is literally like one meter wide, and there is absolutely no cover around to protect yourself from people shooting miles away from the town, and in the mountains.
You can cap from inside the building. Stand in the corner and you will cap the flag.
You missed the point here. The West Road is an example of a small cap point, but pretty much all of flags need their zones enlarged. The West Road especially, because there is no cover because of the stupidly small capture area, and one corner inside a building isn't enough cover for an entire squad.
It's quite a shame really with this map in it's current state, how beautiful it can be, but also how universally loathed it is by the players, just because of the frantic gameplay.
I'm really surprised at this. I have never heard a "universal loathing" of Sfakia. Also, in it's "current state": it hasn't been changed much since it got into the mod, so not sure what you mean by that.
Oh really? Just yesterday, while playing Sfakia, almost everyone in the WaW server was complaining about the map at hand. By meaning, "current state", I mean that it's current state is flawed, as it was in 2.4 and 2.3 and so on, and will be so until it's changed.
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This is a feedback thread, not counter everything I say thread. I'm giving suggestions to make the map better, and this is what will make it better.
I know, I was just replying to your feedback. It is a forum, meant for communication. It will not make the map better per se, and like I said: the mapper doesn't want it in. End of story.
Incorrect. The British can easily get into the mountains and watch the German spawns. Just yesterday I was spawning in the mountains above The West Road, and then immediately getting shot by 3 Brits in varying places in the mountains beside me.
OK, I didn't know that. That's clearly a bug. I'll check and report it if I can reproduce.
You missed the point here. The West Road is an example of a small cap point, but pretty much all of flags need their zones enlarged. The West Road especially, because there is no cover because of the stupidly small capture area, and one corner inside a building isn't enough cover for an entire squad.
I just gave you a tip there. You might be right about the capzones, I have never experienced it as annoying or anything. Upper Town for example is pretty large.
Oh really? Just yesterday, while playing Sfakia, almost everyone in the WaW server was complaining about the map at hand.
OK, then maybe that's a US server vs Euro server thing. Like I said, I have never seen (much) complaining about Sfakia. It surprised me because of that, and also because of the fact that the map is quite old and this feedback comes now.
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We play Sfakia 16 a lot on the WaW public server and it's always a good time - we try the 64 from time to time and never enjoy it. I played the same round as Excavus and while I don't agree with any form of push mode on this map, an ABC line is a good idea and I especially agree about the cap radius for the West Road. It's like there is a specific crack in the road you must stand in, so exposed you may as well be unarmed, and for either side it's usually just too much to ask for.
As a counter to the push idea, I wouldn't mind all flags being 2-person caps like Harbour and Monastery, but then again I don't think there should be one single flag on a non-16 sized map that can be capped by only one person so take that for what it's worth.
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Okay, push mode might be a bit to extreme, but how about a semi push mode? If the Germans capture The West Road, British Rearguard, and Monastary, the British shouldn't be able to capture them back. The Germans are still bleeding, as the British still have one more flag than the Germans inside the town.
That way you can concentrate the fighting in the town, where the best gameplay comes from.
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I can't even describe how deeply I hate this map... and she hates me. I almost destroyed my mouse today (thats the reason why I always buy the cheapest mouses possible).
While the map itself looks more than great, the gameplay feels too random for me, especialy when I play the Germans. Those Jerries are always killing me from God knows where and I have no clue what on Earth is happening around me. Everyone is running at random diretions, squads are near useless and it's just so ridicolous for me.
I need your tips guys or I am just not going to play it anymore like Alam Halfa.
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git gud 8) (j/k)
This map is a bit of a counter-strike slog. It's a good way to practice your infantry gameplay imo. And even tho I have ~100ping, there are times where I really enjoy it/ do pretty well.
My opinion... try to get a good squad. Hetz or Store will always give you a good spawn point and call out enemies well. If you can't get in a good squad, move slowly, camp in good spots, but always watch your back, cause as you know, enemy's can come from anywhere. I 'check my six' about once every minute on these maps.
I still think this map holds up well after all these years;
a) it's gorgeous
b) it's not a bad thing to have some run n' gun infantry play every once in a while
it's a good place to practice your snap shooting and infantry movement. ;)
my only real tips for infantry play are to play like a major league gamer :P that means, strafing back and forth and constantly moving/ never staying still. getting really good at centering the enemy in your screen so you can hip-fire/ quick to ironsights fire better. The FH2 vets have gotten good at this, and I do it too on these types of maps just because you have to. I hate when people 'dance' around like I'm describing, but that's kinda how you have to play if you want to be good in a 1 on 1 inf fight :/
also, the more you play the map, the more you learn the paths people like to take and you can anticipate where the enemy will be
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The thing is always when this map comes my reflexes are getting extraordinary slow, like my grandma's. Today I hipfired 3 guys right in the stomach (I am reasonably good at this and saw blood) but nothing happened which means 3 things:
1. No hit detecton
2. Hit limb-Slow reflex
3. I got tired-same as point 2. Right at the beginnig of FH2 play night (and ofc in the end) I tend to hit limbs a lot.
I am usually doing well in the CQC of Tunis but in Sfakia map quick shoting just doesn't seem to work with me. :(
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Well after taking that reaction test you posted, it probably doesn't come down to reaction time as much as knowing the map. After playing for a while you can anticipate where people will be and be ready for them when they pop out
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Like Matt said before: learn the paths. There are some sweet spots on the flanks of the paths, which you can take and then shoot enemies passing by you, usually concetrating on other enemies in front of them totally ignoring you while you keep picking them off.
A good spot as Brit is just north of the Command Post flag, in the begining of the round. Germans will cap Rearguard and then move on into the town, they will have their eyes set on the Command Post flag and it's surroundings. Easy pickings ;)