What do you wanna see in the upcoming eastfront?

[Flippy Warbear]

Would be awesome yes, even as a broken version in which the tank remains stationary but all the guns are still in working condition. A fortress, so to say. 

[Musti]

I can imagine that HE and machine gun spam with this thing  
IF all positions are manned

[darktimes]

oh yes. till a panzer III shows up. :troll:

[THeTA0123]

oh yes. till a panzer III shows up. :troll:

even a PZII

[IrishReloaded]

panzer I Ausf F when ramming

[darktimes]

oh yes! we need ram damage! it was one of the main tactics for the T34 tank crews against Panthers and tigers!

[Flyboy1942]

Guys.

Guys listen.

What we need...is this traktor.

The Great Traktor of the East: STZ-Nati



http://www.techstory.ru/trr_foto/trr_vgtz_1st.htm

[HadrianBT]

"As you can see from the Italian equipment, this would end in massive Italian slaughtering."

It was actually worse than that. They mainly had infantry there. Quoting a T-34 tanker (battalion commander):

"Когда починились, догнали наших. Пришли в район, никогда не забуду, казачьего хутора Хлебный. В 3-х километрах другой хутор – Петровский. Его тоже заняли советские танки, но не нашей бригады. Между хуторами, расположенными на холмах, пролегала низина. Рано утром по ней, огромной сплошной толпой пошла, спасаясь из окружения, 8-я итальянская армия. Когда передовые части итальянцев поравнялись с нами, по колоннам пошла команда «Вперед! Давить!». Вот тогда мы им с двух флангов дали! Я такого месива никогда больше не видел. Итальянскую армию буквально втерли в землю...
...Взяли толпы пленных в этот день. После этого разгрома 8-я итальянская армия фактически прекратила свое существование, во всяком случае, я ни одного итальянца на фронте больше не видел."

In English:
"After repairs, we caught up with the rest. I will never forget how we arrived at the area of cossacks village Khlebnyj. Another village in 3 km - Petrovskij. Also occupied by soviet tanks, but not from our brigade. Between the two villages sitting on the hills, a ravine was located. Early in the morning, a continuous wave of Italians form the 8th army went, trying to escape encirclement. When the head of the enemy group reached us, a command went to all of our columns - "Attack! Crush!" That's when we hit them on two flanks. I never saw a bigger meat-grinder in my life. The Italian army was literally ground into the ground....
...Took huge amounts of prisoners that day. After the defeat, the Italian army ceased to exist. At least I never saw a single Italian in the war since then."

It is not possible to make a balanced and realistic scenario out of that. However, as has been correctly suggested previously, a scenario in 1941 would be much better with Russians and Italians well matched in equipment and strength.

[THeTA0123]

 put a map with mostly infantry
give the russians t34's
and give the italians Canone 47 with "effecto pronto' HEAT rounds

They where not accurate, but they could penetrate the T34's armor

[PanzerKnacker]

the thing I suggested was Operation Little Saturn sorry xD


One question: What was the biggest arty gun used by the German army, but not counting the rail/siege guns and mortars

[Mayhemic.MAD]

One question: What was the biggest arty gun used by the German army, but not counting the rail/siege guns and mortars

German army only used guns up to 15cm in large numbers. All other guns they had were made in low numbers only or were captured from other armies.
The only other thing with bigger caliber that was used in large numbers were the different versions of the Wurfrahmen/Nebelwerfer. Available in sizes up to 280mm (50kg explosives) and 320mm (50l flammable liquid) and used all along the eastern front.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillerietruppe_(Wehrmacht)
sorry, german only, but you can see the caliber in the tables

[PanzerKnacker]

ok, thanks

[psykfallet]

well put it this way, how could a Berlin-1945 map ever be realistically balanced? For a game some liberties have to be taken. For example they could get a larger caliber arty gun with Effeto pronto speciale, or a 90/53
http://comandosupremo.com/cannone9053.html
and dont underestimate the power of ATmines (although italian ones usually sucked)

[Timmay9/11]

I agree with psykfallet

Also from http://www.comandosupremo.com

By mid December of 1942, the situation for the Axis forces fighting in southern Russia had become critical.  The Soviets had launched their counter–offensive, Operation ‘Uranus’, on November 19th by destroying the Romanian Army who had been guarding the flank of the German 6th Army.  The 6th itself was engaged in the bloody battle of Stalingrad.
The Soviets now had the Germans encircled, and would methodically move in and eradicate Hitler’s forces trapped in the pocket.  The destruction of the 6th Army in Stalingrad was just part of the plan that Stalin and his military leaders had designed to eliminate the Axis forces in this region of the Soviet Union.
‘Operation Saturn’ would be their follow up to Uranus.  This Soviet operation’s main goal was destroying the Italian 8th Army while forcing the Don River, and then driving on to Rostov on Don to trap Army Group A in the Caucasus.  Simultaneously they planed on cutting the line of communication to 4th Panzer Army who was attempting, in vain as it turned out, to relieve the 6th Army trapped in Stalingrad.
The Italians held a position along the Don stretching 250km, with the Hungarian 2nd Army on one of their flanks and the Romanian 3rd Army positioned on the other.  The military leaders of all three of these Axis forces had previously pressed the Germans for additional armament for their sectors.  All suffered from a serious lack of armor and anti-tank weapons that would be critical for any type of defensive action.  Their positions would be very vulnerable to an attack in strength by the Russians.  Their pleas were ignored however, the Germans feeling that the Soviets were on their last legs and would not have the strength to mount an attack in this area.  The German thinking was wrong on this, and the war on the Eastern Front was about to be altered forever.  The Soviets had in fact secretly built up an immense force of men and weapons to throw at the Axis forces who were now deep into Russian territory.  In the first weeks of that terribly cold December, the Soviets launched the first part of Operation Saturn, known as Operation Little Saturn, whose aim was the destruction of Germany’s allies led by the Eighth Italian Army.  The Soviet 63rd Army was the first to strike, attacking the Italian Ravenna and Cosseria infantry divisions.  A vicious air bombardment by Soviet fighter bombers was followed up by a devastating artillery attack as the Soviet offensive began.  Featured during this attack were Soviet Katyusha rockets, whose fear inducing shrieks preceded the devastation they caused as they slammed into the Italian positions.   The Soviets then unleashed wave after wave of T34 Tanks into the Italian lines.

Afik and my Book says, the 6th german Panzerdivision  was send to aid the Italians in the sector, so just give them German Tanks after the soviets captured a few flags like we have in some of the Africa maps with the Tiger and it would work quite well. Some Italian Paks like the Elefantino and the Cannone da 75/32 Modello 37.   Both movable of course to counter the soviet Tanks and compensate the fact that the Tanks they used where during this period of war just useful as anti infantry and anti light moured vehicels. Still I would put them on such a map, even if you just can use them for that,  but the players will use them. Maybe even some players will become so skilled that they hit the weak points of the Russian tanks with this under armed Italian tanks.
So again
47/32 Anti Tank Gun Elefantino (already in game)
5-cm-PaK 38 (already in game, got some from the Germans)
Cannone da 75/32 Modello 37 (not ingame)

Fiat L6/40 (already in game)
Semovente 47/32 (already in game)
German Tanks like Panzer IV and III maybe Tiger (spawing later to represent the 6th Panzer Division)


For Infantry I would than suggest the 20-MM. ANTI TANK RIFLE (SOLOTHURN) or maybe the polish Wz. 35 anti-tank rifle. Germany sold over 800 of them after the defeat of Poland to Italy.  Both models could be then used for the Italians and the Germans.

Just think of it. The Russians  lunch an attack an the Italian lines next to the frozen river Don. They fight hard but the Russians attack harder. Flag after flag is falling to the Russians. The few Italian Tanks kill some russian infantry and a BA-10 just to get blown up in the next moment by a KV2. The Italians can slow down the Russian attack by using lots of mines and ambushing the Russian tanks with their paks hidden in some bushes and the ashes of some burned down houses but nothing helps. The Russians take more than half of the flags but then…   The 6th german panzerdivision arrives (or at least some of their units). German Tanks start to spawn in the Italian Base and now the tide is turning (or lets say more balanced). Are the Italians able to take back the ticket bleed? Are they able to push the Russians now back over the river Don? Nobody knows, but the question is going to be answered now every day on your favorite FH2 server.


Italy is waiting for you...

[th_battleaxe]

Did anyone mention the T35 ?

Many of them just broke down before reaching the front but it is assumed some actually fought during early Barbarossa.
Anyway, 5 turrets, 3 guns, 6 Mgs, this is an epic tank that would deserve a fight in FH2. 

those and T-28s were captured in substantial numbers by the Finns, another reason to have them