Gaddafi and Libya

[Fuchs]

Not as crazy as Hitler it seems. Rumours say he fled.

More rumours; two of his sons are captured.

[THeTA0123]

Auf wiedersien!

SCHWEINHUND!

[Dukat]

Not as crazy as Hitler it seems. Rumours say he fled.

More rumours; two of his sons are captured.

Haven't heard anything about the sons.
And there are constant rumors that he fled.
But actually I dont believe he will escape. And i don't believe they'll catch him alive. I believe he will do the Hitler. Because death is awaiting him anyway.

[hankypanky]

Well me being a muslim I have one thing to say:

ALLAH AKBAR LIBYA IS FREE!!!!!!!!

[Tolga<3]

Oh yes, because Western people are thrilled by the sight of us yelling Allahu Ekber. It ain't free, we're taking a break while our future enemy starts settling in.

[Gezoes]

Oh yes, because Western people are thrilled by the sight of us yelling Allahu Ekber. It ain't free, we're taking a break while our future enemy starts settling in.

It's ok, we don't believe much in God anymore, but they do. It gives them strength, nothing wrong with that. And maybe it will fail, but we just don't know do we. That's so easy. See no evil, hear no evil. Long live isolationism. No. I'd rather act to remove this pig, and run the risk of another, than not acting.

Because it's ok not to act, fine. That's a choice too. But don't think it means you can wash your hands in innocence when Benghazi was slaughtered. That didn't happen fortunately, because in the nick of time, we did act. I'm proud of that. I hope for all the people there that fighting will end soon and may Libya find its way.

[Stefan]

yet you still find people who think benghazi would have been "slaughtered", cause that happened to all the other towns libyan army took on the eastern front correct?

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

yet you still find people who think benghazi would have been "slaughtered", cause that happened to all the other towns libyan army took on the eastern front correct?

Most notably, these "people" include the population of Benghazi.

[Gezoes]

yet you still find people who think benghazi would have been "slaughtered", cause that happened to all the other towns libyan army took on the eastern front correct?

Indeed, apart from the first battles in Misurata, which he could besiege from Tripoli, and Benghazi, Madaffi didn't do that 'much'. He's not stupid. He knew the UN was still debating so his loyals and mercs raced for Benghazi. Smart. There is of course the thing about AA guns a.o. and human crowds, but I'm sure the security council saw those pictures.

During the night and early morning of the Benghazi siege, before the first Mirages appeared, however, things changed. His forces penetrated the west of Benghazi and went nuts. Madaffi and Benghazi have (had) a lot of scores to settle, read up on it. After that, he used terror and death to try to defeat the revolution.

Meanwhile.... Nato planning to hit the walls of his HQ. Snipers firing at hospitals and more specific, doctors and staff who venture outside these hospitals. He's such a creative man the colonel. Your argument being? He's a nice guy? Because I realize the rebels will probably have killed some civilians as well, but I doubt it was intentional.

[Slayer]

95% of Tripoli conquered by rebels now, heavy fighting in western part of Libya. I give it one week, and it will be over.

[hankypanky]

Oh yes, because Western people are thrilled by the sight of us yelling Allahu Ekber. It ain't free, we're taking a break while our future enemy starts settling in.

We can sit here and dismisses the Arab spring and the Libya revolution as a farce, and as "Future enemies", or we can give them the time and maybe see new stable governments. You know there is already a stable national transition council with heavy western support. So Libya already has the framework for a stable government. 

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Hey Stefan, even left-wing wingnuts like Juan Cole disagree with you:

http://www.juancole.com/

10 myths of the Libya War

9. Qaddafi would not have killed or imprisoned large numbers of dissidents in Benghazi, Derna, al-Bayda and Tobruk if he had been allowed to pursue his March Blitzkrieg toward the eastern cities that had defied him. But we have real-world examples of how he would have behaved, in Zawiya, Tawargha, Misrata and elsewhere. His indiscriminate shelling of Misrata had already killed between 1000 and 2000 by last April,, and it continued all summer. At least one Qaddafi mass grave with 150 bodies in it has been discovered. And the full story of the horrors in Zawiya and elsewhere in the west has yet to emerge, but it will not be pretty. The opposition claims Qaddafi’s forces killed tens of thousands. Public health studies may eventually settle this issue, but we know definitively what Qaddafi was capable of.

10. This was a war for Libya’s oil. That is daft. Libya was already integrated into the international oil markets, and had done billions of deals with BP, ENI, etc., etc. None of those companies would have wanted to endanger their contracts by getting rid of the ruler who had signed them. They had often already had the trauma of having to compete for post-war Iraqi contracts, a process in which many did less well than they would have liked. ENI’s profits were hurt by the Libyan revolution, as were those of Total SA. and Repsol. Moreover, taking Libyan oil off the market through a NATO military intervention could have been foreseen to put up oil prices, which no Western elected leader would have wanted to see, especially Barack Obama, with the danger that a spike in energy prices could prolong the economic doldrums. An economic argument for imperialism is fine if it makes sense, but this one does not, and there is no good evidence for it (that Qaddafi was erratic is not enough), and is therefore just a conspiracy theory.

[Stefan]

i dont think in left/right terms like simple minded people, so i dont know what that has to do with me.

Whatever you post, none of the towns taken by libyan army forces have been "slaughtered", if they were i am sure cnn or aljazeera would have been all over it.

Thanks to this war alot of civilians died, even without towns having to be "slaughtered", and NATO used an "uprising" that went straight to plundering military bases for regime change while unarmed protestors were shot ( to put it mildly )en masse in yemen and bahrein, not to mention syria which is all what the "west" claims is happening in lybia actually occurs.

I dont have a stake in that war unlike you, i dont like criminals looting bases and taking over a country by force, nor do i like state sponsored terrorism. But my name isnt Bush who said that Gaddafi is not a terrorist anymore after paying the victims of lockerbie, which means bin laden simply didnt have the kind of money to buy himself out. And i wasnt Sarkozy going to north africa telling the dictators he wasnt there to tell them what to do and pull out the red carpet for Gaddafi in paris to sell him French weapons. Guess he got pissed that gaddafi rather made contracts for Russian tanks and planes.....

So will Libya be a true democracy? or the kind like the US and Afghanistan have where you can vote for select people who all do the same thing anyway without the people having a real say.
I do know, and ill bet my forum account on it, in the coming few years the Libyan army has to be rebuild and the west will get some nice sales in return for oil.

[Tolga<3]

Oh yes, because Western people are thrilled by the sight of us yelling Allahu Ekber. It ain't free, we're taking a break while our future enemy starts settling in.

We can sit here and dismisses the Arab spring and the Libya revolution as a farce, and as "Future enemies", or we can give them the time and maybe see new stable governments. You know there is already a stable national transition council with heavy western support. So Libya already has the framework for a stable government.

The Arab Spring or the Jasmine Spring as we call it is most certainly not a farce but something everybody should keep their eyes on. The rebels in Libya do have some Al-Qaeda connections, there are known Islamists among them and its really not similar to the situation we had in Tunisia or Egypt. Look at Syria now, people cutting eachothers heads off and hanging dead babies around and about. This doesn't feel like the sweep of freedom one bit.

[Dukat]

The Arab Spring or the Jasmine Spring as we call it is most certainly not a farce but something everybody should keep their eyes on. The rebels in Libya do have some Al-Qaeda connections, there are known Islamists among them and its really not similar to the situation we had in Tunisia or Egypt. Look at Syria now, people cutting eachothers heads off and hanging dead babies around and about. This doesn't feel like the sweep of freedom one bit.

looooooooool

What I call a delicate plant arising in the spring is considered as bad weeds by you.
However, the 'islamism' forced by Erdogan and the AKP in Turkey worries me actually more than the possibility of Islamism in future Libya.

But well, it is better to have an opinion than not being interested in politics at all. Actually the variety of opinions on this planet leaves me astonished each day.