Author Topic: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms  (Read 19772 times)

Offline Vincent Von Krüger

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Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« on: 16-08-2012, 13:08:12 »
Hello it is me again, and here i am to make some offers regarding small arms.

the ones to be suggested and posted existed in real life, and at the minimum as a prototype.

First of is a rifle that could have replaced the SMLE series.

Farquar-Hill Self Loading Rifle (Rifle. .303 inch, Pattern 1918)





closeup on the magazine.

Place of Origin : United Kingdom

Wars used in : WW1

Designer :     Moubray G. Farquhar and Arthur H. Hill

Cartridge : .303

Action : Recoil (prototype) production model used Gas

Rate of Fire (automatic version only) : 700rpm

Feed System : 20-65 round drum magazine

Sights : Iron

The Farquhar-Hill Rifle was one of the first automatic rifles designed in the early 20th century. It was first tested in May 1908, but had many failures. Design was by Major H J Farquhar-Hill, who produced several improved designs none of which completely satisfied the Small Arms Committee. It is a British long recoil operated automatic rifle taking a .303 inch round from a 20-round drum. Magazine variations included a 10-round truncated cone and a 65-round drum. Operation is automatic with a cyclic rate of 700 rounds-per-minute. It has a muzzle velocity of 732 metres-per-second(2400 feet per second) and is sighted to 1372 metres(4500 feet). One of his rifles (or one similar to it) was tried in the United States late in the First World War using a drum type magazine.

The Farquhar-Hill appears to have been adopted and ordered by the British Army in 1918, but the end of hostilities in Europe led to the order being cancelled before and rifles were delivered. It did see some use with British aviators, along the same lines as the Mauser Selbstlader and Mondragon rifles. For observers and gunners aloft, self-loading rifles were an enormous advantage over manually operated weapons, and these early rifles were briefly used before the practice of mounting machine guns in aircraft took hold.

The Farquhar-Hill self-loading (semi-automatic) rifle was a joint development of two British gentlemen, Moubray G. Farquhar and Arthur H. Hill. Their original invention, patented in UK in 1908 and in USA in 1909, was a long-recoil operated rifle with rotary bolt locking. The key feature of this firearm was the fact that recoil energy of the moving barrel was stored in the intermediate spring. Upon discharge, barrel recoiled back and forth while still locked with the bolt, compressing the intermediate spring on recoil. Upon return of the barrel into the forward position the energy, stored in the intermediate 'action' spring, was used to cycle the bolt back and forth, extracting and ejecting the spent case and feeding a fresh round into the now stationary barrel. The main goal was to achieve smooth and reliable cycling of the bolt, but the design was very complicated and thus badly suited for a military firearm. By 1911, Farquhar and Hill revised their rifle, changing its source of energy from barrel recoil to more convenient gas operated action. This new weapon also utilized intermediate spring as a source of energy for cycling of the bolt, but the barrel was now stationary, simplifying design and making it potentially more accurate and reliable. During following years this design was further refined and tested by British Army on several occasions. This rifle was initially chambered for the new “.303 rimless” round, designed by necking up the 7,65x53mm Belgian Mauser case and loading it with British-issue Mk.VII bullet of .303 caliber. Later on this experimental loading was discarded in favor of the standard issue .303 British ammunition. After several trials, including troop trials at the front, in 1918 the Farquhar-Hill rifle was found to be suitable for military use, and an official request was issued for procurement of as much as 100,000 of Farquhar-Hill rifles for British forces fighting on the Continent against Germany. Official nomenclature assigned to the military Farquhar-Hill rifle in August 1918 was “Rifle. .303 inch, Pattern 1918”. However, hostilities of the Great War ended before production facilities were allocated for this rifle, and in the view of an upcoming peace the requirement for manufacture of Farquhar-Hill rifles was dropped in 1919. During 1920s and early 1930s Farquhar redesigned this rifle into a light machine gun of lightweight design, fed from top-mounted pan magazines. This machine gun, known as the Beardmore-Farquhar, was also tested by British army on several occasions but was ultimately rejected for variety of reasons.

and here is a lost gem from a nation that tried to recreate Mare Nostrum.

Cei-Rigotti


Type : Automatic rifle (not to be confused with a fully automatic, the term automatic comes from it being self loaded)

Place of origin : Italy

Designer : Amerigo Cei-Rigotti

Designed : 1900

Weight : 4.3 kg (9 lb 55 oz)

Length : 1,000 mm (39.4 in)

Cartridge : 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano

Action : Gas piston, self-loading

Rate of fire    Up to 900rpm

Muzzle velocity : 730 m/s (2,400 ft/s)

Feed system : 25-round detachable box magazine

Sights : 1,400 meters (1,531 yards) (iron)

The Cei-Rigotti is an early automatic rifle created by Amerigo Cei-Rigotti, an officer in the Italian Army, in 1890, and extensively modified until its final form circa 1900.

It had selective fire capabilities (single shots or burst) and was a gas operated rifle. Over the next few years (1903 and 1911) there were improvements to its internal functions, such as its gas operation. The rifle fired 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition fed from a 25-round detachable box magazine. The rifle, although not actually used by any army (possibly because of its extreme unreliability), was produced in limited quantities and tested in Switzerland, Russia and Austria. These variations fired 8x56mmR (Austria) and 7.62x54mmR (Russian) ammunition.

The Cei-Rigotti was tested by the British Small Arms Committee and was also tested by the Royal Navy. The rifles experienced difficult ejection and had high rates of misfires. According to the illustrated directory of 20th century guns, it was also unpopular with troops who used it because of the distance the bolt traveled backwards in operation.


Fusil Automatique Modèle 1917


Type : Semi-automatic rifle

Place of Origin : France

Originally in Service : 1917-1926

Used by : French army (and unconfirmed reports of use by some soldiers in the Wehrmacht after the french surrender.)

Wars participated in : WW1 and the Rif War

Designer : Ribeyrolles, Sutter, Chauchat

Designed : 1917

Manufacturer : Manufacture d'armes de Tulle

Produced : from 1917 to 1918

Number built : about 86.000

Catridge : 8x50mm R Lebel

Action : Gas operated, rotating bolt

Feed system : 5-round capacity clip-fed internal box magazine

The Fusil Automatique Modèle 1917 (also called the RSC M1917) was a semi-automatic, gas-operated, infantry rifle that was placed in service in the French Army during the latter part (1918) of World War I. It was chambered in the then-standard 8mm Lebel rimmed cartridge used in other French Army infantry weapons of the time. Altogether, eighty six thousand RSC M1917 rifles had been manufactured by MAT (Manufacture d'Armes de Tulle), when their production run ended in late November 1918. However very few have survived and those are actively sought after by collectors .

The adoption of the Modèle 1917 can be traced to early attempts by the French Army to replace its Lebel rifles with a more advanced semiautomatic design in the years before the outbreak of the First World War. In 1913, a semi-automatic rifle was selected to be adopted as a replacement for the Lebels and Berthiers in the army's inventory. It was the semi-automatic long recoil operated Meunier rifle which was tentatively adopted in 1910 as a replacement for the Lebel rifle. Considerable delays were experienced in the final choice for the ammunition which ended up being a powerful rimless 7x57mm round. Only 1013 Meunier rifles had been manufactured by 1916 and about 300 were sent for field trials in the trenches. They were well received but the special ammunition problem was a major handicap.

The Mle. 1917 RSC ( for: Ribeyrolles, Sutter and Chauchat) was formally adopted in May 1916 and a fairly large number (86,000) had been manufactured by November 1918. It was less expensive to manufacture than the Meunier rifle since it used standard Lebel rifle components, notably: the barrel, stock, handguard, barrel bands and trigger guard. Above all else, it was chambered for the standard 8mm Lebel ammunition, which was loaded on special five round clips. The Mle 1917 RSC was gas operated with a rotating bolt, the gas port being located underneath the barrel and near the muzzle as in the much later to appear Garand rifle. The Mle 1917 was widely distributed among French infantry during 1918 but it was not well received by the troops, being found too heavy, too long and too difficult to service and maintain in the trenches. The weak point of this rifle was the very small inside diameter of the gas port located below the front end of the barrel. Because of its diminutive size the gas port fouled easily thus creating weaker and weaker bolt returns. As a result the gas port had to be frequently cleaned out (every 100 rounds or so) after removing the large brass screw located underneath the front end of the barrel. Furthermore, the special clip for the Mle 1917 was not particularly strong.

Following as a substantial improvement, the Mle 1918 RSC was adopted in 1918 as a rifle planned to replace all other rifles in 1919. It had a shorter barrel than the RSC 1917, all the Mle 1917 RSC drawbacks had been corrected and it used the standard and better 5-round Berthier clip instead of the proprietary clip of the RSC 1917. Its manufacture did not begin until November 1918. Only 4,000 were built and many were successfully tested in combat during the Rif War of 1921-1926 in Morocco.

Both the Mle 1917 RSC and the Meunier rifle can be seen at the Musée de l'Armée, Les Invalides, Paris, France, as a part of the permanent WW-1 (1914–1918) arms, uniforms and equipments exhibits. Within the US, excellent specimens of the Mle 1917 RSC are displayed in the collections of the public museum at Aberdeen Proving Grounds and also at the US Military Academy museum at West Point. An excellent specimen of the RSC Mle 1917 is also preserved at the National Rifle Association Museum.


ZH-29


Type : Service Rifle

Place of origin : Czechoslovakia

Used by : Republic of China, Czechoslovakia, Ethiopia, Germany and Thailand.

Designer : Vaclav Holek

Weight : 4.5kg (9.9lb)

Length : 1150mm (45in)

Barrel Length : 545mm (21.5in)

Catridge : 8x57mm IS

Calibre : 7.9mm

Action : Gas, Side swinging bolt

Rate of fire : semi/select fire

feed system : 5/10/25 round box magazine

Sights : Iron

The ZH-29 was a semi-automatic rifle developed in Czechoslovakia during the late 1920s and used by Chinese military forces. The ZH-29 is one of the first successful self loading rifles in service.

The ZH-29 is a gas operated service rifle with a locking system similar to that which would be later used in the Sturmgewehr 44.


Kongsberg Colt




Type : Semi-automatic Pistol

Place of origin : Norway

Used by : Norway and Nazi Germany

Wars : WWII

Number built : 32,874

Catridge : 11.43x23mm ACP (.45 ACP)

Calibre : .45

Action : Recoil-operated, closed bolt

Rate of fire : semi automatic (depends on how fast you can pull the trigger iow)

Muzzle Velocity : 800 ft/s (244 m/s)

Feed System :  rounds (standard-capacity magazine), +1 in chamber

The Kongsberg Colt is a nickname used for Colt M1911 pistols produced under license by the Norwegian factory Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk.

Norway adopted the 7.5 mm Nagant revolver (named M/1893) as the standard Norwegian military sidearm in 1893. Commissions to test possible new service pistols were active from 1904 till 1911. In 1911, a commission recommended adoption of the semi-automatic .38 ACP caliber Colt Military Model 1902 pistol, after field trials with 25 such pistols, all purchased from Colt's London Agency. However, as the US had just adopted the Colt .45ACP M/1911 pistol it was decided to conduct further tests. A pistol of the new M/1911 design was received in Norway in January 1913. Following extensive tests through early 1914, if was finally decided, in August 1914, to adopt the Colt M/1911 pistol in Norway. These pistols were to replace the Nagant revolvers (7,5mm M/1893) as the standard military sidearm in Norway. Fabrique Nationale in Belgium signed a contract allowing Norway to manufacture the M1911 in September 1914. The pistol would be produced at Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk in Norway.


As production start was slow, some M1911's were bought from Colt USA. 400 pistols were shipped to Norway for the Royal Norwegian Navy in 1915, 300 more pistols were shipped in 1917 for the Norwegian Army. Price was US$18.50 per piece.

The production at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway started in 1916 and 95 pistols were finished in 1917 and wrongly stamped "COLT AUT. PISTOL M/1912" These pistols were identical to the Colt M1911 except for a minor detail on the hammer checkering. 100 pistols were ordered, but 5 were rejected during production. The serial range was from 1 to 95. Number 1 is in Bady's book "Government Models" and number 2 was stolen from Norwegian Armed Forces Museum in 1978.

Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk was ready to start mass production in 1918. One significant change was now made. The slide-stop was extended down and back to make it easier to operate. This change required a cut-out in the left stock. This change had been suggested in 1916, but did not materialize on the production pistols before in 1918. The new version had the left side of the slide stamped "11.25 m/m AUT. PISTOL M/1914." (AUT.= Automatisk) that was correct as the adoption of the gun was in 1914. Most of the pistols that had been marked "1912" were recalled to the factory to have the "new" slide stop installed. Production went on, but from 1932 to 1939 the production was very low, only 871 were made (approx 22,300 pieces were made before 1940).

During the German occupation of Norway (1940–1945), manufacture of the pistol, given the designation Pistole 657(n), was continued under German control. The Waffenamt acceptance mark (WaA84) was added in 1945 and only those 920 pistols produced that year were ever Waffenamt-marked. It's not likely that any of these Waffenamt-marked pistols ever saw any action during World War II as the first one, serial# 29615, was delivered March 29, 1945 and the last one, serial# 30534, was delivered on 5 May 1945 just before liberation of Norway. In total, approximately 8200 pistols were made during German occupation (serials 22312-30534). All of them were delivered to AOK Norwegen (Army) except 700 that were delivered to Maza Norwegen (Navy).

Occupation production:

    1940 = approx. 50 pistols
    1941 = approx. 4099 pistols
    1942 = 3154 pistols
    1945 = 920 pistols

No pistols were produced in 1943 & 1944. In those years, production of Krag-Jørgensen rifles was prioritized.

A few pistols were assembled from existing parts after the war until production was halted at serial number 32854 in 1947. Twenty additional pistols were assembled from foreign-produced parts in 1987 as collector's pieces for the US market. A US dealer supplied commercial frames, slides and barrels as well as other parts that were assembled at Kongsberg. Previous markings were removed and Kongsberg markings and serials were engraved on the parts before the assembled pistols were returned to the US.


this post will be updated with information of more weapons.
being a soldier with an Bolt Action rifle i take pride in my work, knowing i got the most powerful anti personel weapon in my hands.

Offline Turkish007

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #1 on: 16-08-2012, 15:08:12 »
Dont forget the Fedorov Avtomat and the FEG Frommer Model 19...  ;)

Online VonMudra

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #2 on: 16-08-2012, 16:08:11 »
Yeah um....those weapons aren't forgotten, they just have no place in the mod.

Offline Turkish007

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #3 on: 16-08-2012, 16:08:35 »
Yeah um....those weapons aren't forgotten, they just have no place in the mod.

Well, the Fedorov Avtomat was used by the Red Army Guards in WW2 and the Model 19 by German, Austrian and Hungarian forces. (I know we dont have Austria or Hungary but a guy was working on the Hungarian army as far as I remember)

Online VonMudra

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #4 on: 16-08-2012, 16:08:16 »
We already have 4 pistols for Germans.  Also, the Fedorov Avtomat was barely used, at all, except a VERY few in the Winter War, not WW2.  That would be like giving the German troops a few Krag Jorgenson rifles because they had some.  But also, most of the guns he posted are prototypes that never went beyond dev stage....  The ZH-29 could only be used for a CHinese pacific theater map (there are none and no known plans for such a front).  So yah.

Offline Surfbird

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #5 on: 16-08-2012, 17:08:32 »
Yeah um....those weapons aren't forgotten, they just have no place in the mod.

That  they did not get forgotten by you does not surprise me :P But I am not a weapon expert for example and don't know these. Most people don't know about this stuff. Calling them forgotten applies for nearly every normal human being and for a big part of the FH2 community as well. Sorry Mudra, but your knowledge is not the standard :D They are of course not forgotten for "experts" or WW2 weapon enthusiasts, but for everyone else.

I really like that article. Keep it up!

Online VonMudra

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #6 on: 16-08-2012, 17:08:20 »
True that, though we have had quite a discussion some time ago on the ZH-29 in the Pic of the Day thread, and I think even on these forums the Federov Avtomat is well known.  The point still is though, not one of those guns has even the slightest place in FH2.

Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #7 on: 16-08-2012, 18:08:33 »
The point still is though, not one of those guns has even the slightest place in FH2.
The Mle. 1918 RSC has the largest place, since a few were issued to the French in 1940 (many more than there were MAS 38 smgs iirc).  Would still be no more than a rare pickup kit.  Though that would need French maps.

Offline GIJordncc1701d

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #8 on: 16-08-2012, 21:08:41 »
I would have to agree with Mudra, there is no place for these here. The Farquhar-Hill was tested by the British but never accepted and the Cei-Riggoti went the same route.

It's kinda like suggesting the Maus  :P

Offline Vincent Von Krüger

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #9 on: 17-08-2012, 08:08:53 »
Fiat-Revelli Modello 1914



Type : Medium Machinegun

Place of origin : Italy

In service : from 1914 to 1945

Wars used in : WWI and WWII

The Fiat-Revelli Modello 1914 was an Italian water-cooled medium machine gun produced from 1914 to 1918. It was used by the Italian Army in the First World War, and was used in limited numbers into the Second World War.

It was very similar to the Maxim in appearance (in fact it had the same air-cooling jacket and tripod), even though its internal workings were completely different, reminiscent of the Breda 30, of which it used the cartridge-oiling system, and the mechanisms. It was fed from a 50 round integral magazine divided in ten compartments, each fed from a rifle clip, a feature that rendered the logistics easier, even though it was slow to reload, prone to malfunction and very uncomfortable in sustained-fire role because of this magazine arrangement. It was chambered for the 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano, weighed 17 kg (37 lb) (the tripod weighed 21.5 kg (47 lb)) and had a firing rate of 400-500 rpm (rounds-per-minute), rather low for this type of machine gun.

It was developed into the Fiat-Revelli Modello 1935.


Fiat-Revelli Modello 1935




. Italy - Four Italian soldiers in a fortified position on a coastal gun, with gun firing, PK 699


Italy - Three Italian soldiers in a fortified position on a coastal gun, PK 699.

Type : Heavy Machine Gun

Place of origin : Kingdom of Italy

In service : from 1937 to 1945

Used by : Italy

Wars : WWII

Designed : 1934

Manufacturer : Società Metallurgica Bresciana

Produced : 1935-1943

Number Built : N/A

Variants : none

Weight : 17kg

Length : 1250mm

Catridge : 8x59mm RB Breda

Calibre : 8mm

Rate of fire : 600 rpm

Muzzle Velocity : 700 m/s (2460ft/s)

Effective range : 1000m

Feed system : belt feed

The Fiat-Revelli 35 was a revised version of the Modello 1914, which had equipped the Italian Army of the Great War.

The Modello 14 seems to have begun the Italian fascination with over-complicated loading systems and the need for lubricating rounds to prevent jamming, which often had the opposite effect. The Modello 35 attempted to remove some of these flaws by opting for a more conventional belt feed and eliminating the oil pump. The opportunity was also taken to adopt the 8 mm round also found in the Breda. These modifications seemingly failed to improve the weapon to a great degree though, it was found that lubrication was still required, needing individual rounds to be greased or the oil pump to be re-fitted, which notably impaired reliability.

Production ended in 1943.


Rieder Automatic Rifle


Type : Automatic rifle

Place of origin : South Africa

Designed : 1940

Produced : 1941-

Length : 1150mm

Catridge : .303 british

Action : Gas

Feed system : 10-round magazine or 30-round Bren gun magazine

Sights : iron

The Rieder Automatic Rifle was a fully automatic Lee-Enfield SMLE rifle of South African origin. The Rieder device could be installed quickly with the use of simple tools. A similar weapon of New Zealand origin was the Charlton Automatic Rifle.

While the rifle had no select fire capability, single shots could be achieved by releasing the trigger quickly. Alternatively the bolt could be operated manually if the gas vein was closed. Prototype rifles fitted with the "Rieder Attachment" or device were tested on bipod and tripod mounts and proved reliable with little maintenance, although recommendations were made to change the sight system to take account of vibration during automatic fire.


Owen Gun



Type : Submachinegun

Place of origin : Australia

In service : 1941-1960s

Used by : Australia, New Zealand, United Kingdom, Dutch East Indies.

Wars : WWII, Malayan Emergency, Korean War, Vietnam War

Designer : Evelyn Owen

Designed : 1931-1939

Manufacturer : Lysaght’s Works, Lithgow Small Arms Factory

Produced : 1941-1945

Number built : about 50,000

Weight : 4.21 kg (9.28 lb)

Length : 806 mm (31.7 in)

Barrel Length : 247 mm (9.72 in)

Catridge : 9x19mm Parabellum

Action : Blowback

Rate of Fire : 700 rpm

Muzzle Velocity : 420 m/s (1,380 ft/s)

Effective range : 123m (135yd)

Feed system : 32 round box magazine

sights : iron

The Owen Gun, which was known officially as the Owen Machine Carbine, was an Australian submachine gun designed by Evelyn (Evo) Owen in 1939. The Owen was the only Australian-designed and main service submachine gun of World War II and was used by the Australian Army from 1943 until the mid 1960's.

Owen, an inventor from Wollongong, was 24 in July 1939 when he demonstrated his prototype .22 calibre "Machine Carbine" to Australian Army ordnance officers at Victoria Barracks in Sydney. The gun was rejected because the army, at the time, did not recognize the value of submachine guns. Following the outbreak of war, Owen joined the Australian Army as a private.

In September 1940, Owen's neighbour, Vincent Wardell, discovered Owen's prototype in a sugar bag. Wardell was manager of a large steel priducts factory at Port Kembla. He showed it to Owen's father who was distressed at his son’s carelessness, but nevertheless explained the history of the weapon. Wardell was impressed by the simplicity of Owen's design. Wardell arranged to have Owen transferred to the Army Inventions Board, to re-commence work on the gun. The army continued to view the weapon in a negative light, but the government took an increasingly favourable view.

The prototype was equipped with a top-mounted drum magazine, which later gave way to a top-mounted straight magazine.

The choice of calibre took some time to be settled. As large quantities of Colt .45 ACP cartridges were available, it was decided to adopt it for the Owen Gun. Official trials were organized, and the John Lysaght factory made three versions in 9 mm, .38-200 and .45 ACP. Sten and Thompson submachine guns were used as benchmarks. As part of the testing, all of the guns were immersed in mud and covered with sand to simulate the harshest environments in which they would be used. The Owen was the only gun that still operated after the treatment. Although the test showed the Owen's capability, the army could not decide on a calibre, and it was only after intervention from the higher levels of government that the army ordered the 9 mm variant.

During the gun's life, its reliability earned it the nickname "Digger's Darling" by Australian troops and it was rumoured to be highly favoured by US troops.

The Owen went into production at the John Lysaght factories at Port Kembla and Newcastle. Between March 1942 and February 1943, Lysaght's produced 28,000 Owen Guns. However, the initial batch of ammunition turned out to be the wrong type and 10,000 of the guns could not be supplied with ammunition. Once again the government overrode military bureaucracy, and took the ammunition through the final production stages and into the hands of Australian troops, at that time fighting Japanese forces in New Guinea. Approximately 50,000 Owens were produced from 1941 to 1945. During the war the average cost to manufacture the Owen submachine gun was $30 dollars.

Although it was somewhat bulky, the Owen became very popular with soldiers because of its reliability. It was so successful that it was also ordered by the United States and New Zealand.

The Owen was later used by Australian troops in the Korean and Vietnam Wars, particularly the scouts in infantry sections. It remained a standard weapon of the Australian Army until the mid-1960s, when it was replaced by the F1 submachine gun. It was also used in Malaya by British troops, the gun was among their favourites for jungle fighting.

The Owen has a simple blowback design, firing from an open bolt. It was designed to be fired either from the shoulder or the hip. It is easily recognisable, owing to its unconventional appearance, including the top-mounted magazine, and the side-mounted sight required to allow the firer to aim past it. The placement of the magazine allows gravity to assist the magazine spring in pushing cartridges down to the breech, which improves feeding reliability. Another unusual feature is the separate compartment inside the receiver, which isolates the small-diameter bolt from its retracting handle by means of a small bulkhead. This prevents dirt and mud from jamming the bolt, and makes the Owen a highly reliable weapon. Like the Sten, the Owen had a non-folding wire buttstock, but also had pistol grips.

To facilitate cleaning, the ejector is built into the magazine, rather than the body of the gun. This allows the barrel to be removed rapidly, by pulling up a spring-loaded plunger in front of the magazine housing. After removing the barrel, the bolt and return spring are removed in a forward direction, completely dismantling the gun.

Photographic evidence indicates a horseshoe-shaped 72-round magazine was fielded, but little information exists as to the specifics of this variant.

In 2004, an "underground weapons factory" was seized in Melbourne, Australia, yielding among other things a number of silenced copies of the Owen submachine gun with magazines instead inserted underneath rather than overhead, suspected to have been built for sale to local gangs involved in the illegal drug trade.
being a soldier with an Bolt Action rifle i take pride in my work, knowing i got the most powerful anti personel weapon in my hands.

Offline Turkish007

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #10 on: 17-08-2012, 08:08:26 »
Fiat-Revelli 1914 and owen gun! Awesome!

Offline titsmcgee852

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #11 on: 17-08-2012, 14:08:44 »
Oh man what I'd give for an Owen gun!

Online VonMudra

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #12 on: 17-08-2012, 18:08:56 »
Fiat MG has already been asked for long ago.  Auto enfield is still a no, it's a prototype.  And Owen gun is only appropriate for aussies in the pacific, so that's a no until a pacific theater, in which case it's highly unlikely the devs would miss such a famous gun.

Offline Turkish007

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #13 on: 17-08-2012, 18:08:13 »
Fiat MG has already been asked for long ago.

So no Fiat-Revelli?  :-[

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Forgotten Weapons - Firearms
« Reply #14 on: 17-08-2012, 18:08:19 »
Think about it: the italians already have a tripod that can be used on all their maps.