AT-Gun

[dead_man1876]

I cannot find a thread about a discussion preceding the introduction of two seats for the AT-Gun. I know that it is realistic, but many things aren't realistic here and the game is faster paced than real combat. If there is no thread about it, I'm for the 1 seater.

Why can one person drive and gun in a tank but an AT-Gunner not?

Why drawing 2 people from combat to use an AT-Gun?

Why having the AT-Gunner seat-hopping?

 It is a nuisance. The AT-Gun is already slow enough.

[ajappat]

AT guns are still meant for one person. AT gun is NOT a poor mans tank, that is meant to move and fire at same time. Having seperate seats, allowed us to get rid of sliding, AT gun should now lock on it's place when you are on gunner seat. Also, now when you push you are standing up and you have push animation, but when you are shooting, you stay completely in cover behind gun shield. Gun traverese was also greatly increased, so that you can actually shoot everything infront of you from gunners seat, without need to turn the gun with pusher seat.

Many AT guns were actually made faster, so that you can push it fast to ambush positions and then wait for enemy tanks.

[Flippy Warbear]

Nobody forces you to draw two players to operate them. You can use them alone just as well. It was made to put a stop to people doing the poor-man's-tank with the AT-guns. That is, pushing them around the same time as firing them.

Given, this issue still exists if you actually have two people in the gun now but at least then you are working as a team and I dont see that as a bad thing. 

And since Kev went through a lot of trouble getting the animations for the pusher look alright, I doubt we will ever go back to the one-seat AT-guns. Besides, many people requested to have a seat in the AT-gun so SL's can spawn comrades.

[LuckyOne]

Yep new AT guns are awesome! Now if only we could get loading animations one day, and they would be perfect!

[dead_man1876]

Thank you for the information ajappat, I was not sure about the increased traverse, now I am.
Unfortunately I cannot see this as an improvement due to the following reasons:

The sliding: i could easily manage that
Gunner cover: can still be easily shot out of the gun (flanking inf/HE/AP, even frontal MG I think)
Gun traverse: The game is so fast paced and there is no "front line" and the enemy can come up as tank or inf from any side and I do have to change shells often, now i have to change seats too.

Even if the AT-Gun is not meant as a poor man's tank, WWII tanks usually needed 5 people to operate and they can be used by one player in FH2, the AT-Gun now needs 2, this is not fair.

The only effect all these changes bring is to make it easier for tankers to spot an AT-Gun before they get shot at. Why?

You cannot wait for a tank to come along, because he will see you if you have a direct line of sight. Camouflage is not working in FH2. Your only chance in FH2 is to hide in cover and to pop up and shoot as soon as you suppose the tank in a favorable position. This was my way, which was now redered useless due to seat hopping.

All in all for me the AT-Gun got less attractive if not useless. Not useless against noobs but against experienced players, some of which probably complained that they sometimes get damaged/shot in their valuable tank by so a low tech thing as an AT-Gun. Intolerable!
I wish a nice and unhindered tank ride!
I'm out of AT-Gunning too, after I quitted AA. If this trend is to go on, only plane and tank skills will soon count in FH2.

Edit: Unfortunately these assets are limited and it will decide a battle if noobs are using them or not, no matter how many good players a team has.

[Flippy Warbear]

We should have a bubble protecting the AT-crew so they cant be killed.

Seriously, dont use them then if it upsets you so much that you die because someone flanks you.

[Ts4EVER]

It might shock you, but at guns are actually not supposed to move around while shooting, so no, they don't need two people.

[dead_man1876]

We should have a bubble protecting the AT-crew so they cant be killed.

Seriously, dont use them then if it upsets you so much that you die because someone flanks you.

I dont need a bubble to protect me, i have no problem with getting killed by flanking infantry, i can hear them. With all respect for your work and position in the community, either you didn't read my post carefully or you just want to mock me. I have a problem that the change made it easier for the bubble protected tanker to survive by having the at-gunner to show himself (direct line of sight/fire), then change seat, then wait for the shell to load, then die - instead of getting a chance to shoot at the tank.

It might shock you, but at guns are actually not supposed to move around while shooting, so no, they don't need two people.

It seems that my post was a bit long to be read carefully. My way was to hide in a concealed place and pop up in the side/rear of the tank and shoot. So no moving around, except to get the gun in the concealed position and sometimes change the spot.

[Slayer]

The idea of the 2-seat AT gun is that
- you can move the gun faster
- you can put the gun in an ambush position and then go into the gunner seat
- load up the shell and wait for the tank

And as a bonus: you are more concealed in the gunner seat than in 2.4 AT guns.

You don't need two people to operate the gun properly, just like you don't need all seats in a tank/truck/APC/SPG occupied to make it work.

You can wait for tanks in ambush, just find the right spot. Of course, when you would put an AT gun in the middle of the open desert like on El Al, then you will be shot immediately by incoming tanks. But when you hide the gun a bit more, then you will have success. There are many maps where you can find a good spot for an ambush.

What you describe, that you get spotted while moving the gun, yes, of course that can happen. Then next time try to get the gun in position before the tanks appear: it is possible.

[dead_man1876]

You cannot really hide an AT-Gun in FH2 without losing visibility and in order to be able to aim you need direct sight = being in front of the cover, not behind it, so imo moving outside cover to shoot is necessary.

There might be hidden corners, but these tend to get known quickly after usage. Being able to hide behind any hedge and pop up after the tank passed was much more of an andrenaline kick.

[Mud Buddha]

My way was to hide in a concealed place and pop up in the side/rear of the tank and shoot. So no moving around, except to get the gun in the concealed position and sometimes change the spot.

Being able to hide behind any hedge and pop up after the tank passed was much more of an andrenaline kick.

With all due respect, with the way you describe 'your way' I think you should just get a tank. AT guns are meant to be moved to a position and get set up there for usage. Not meant for continuous mobile deployment. This is just a case of you having to adept your playing style.

The way in which you want to use the PAK is still possible (letting the tank pass and such) only it takes a little more practicse now, with the switcing of seats. The only thing you can't do anymore is fire on the move, exactly what the devs were aiming for, cuz that is not realistic.

Your comparison to tanks having 5 men crews IRL and can be driven by one man in FH are baseless since the tank effectively becomes useless when it would need 2 guys and has only one in it. The PAK can still perform like it did IRL with only one man.

(and in FH the one-man tank is really just a hybrid of the gunner/driver positions, not of a 5 men crew. The MG positions require other players as well)