Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Community Polls => Topic started by: x4fun ODIUM on 29-07-2012, 05:07:53

Title: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 29-07-2012, 05:07:53
Hello, I would like to draw your attention to this thread in our forums.

http://www.762-ranking.de/forum/showthread.php?439-Crossed-out-flags-rule-Remove

Text is as follows. Feel free to log in and discuss / vote.
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Today I had to kick sheikyerbouti because he complained about the "bullshit" rules of our servers. He asked why and when I explained to him on VOIP why I kicked him, his basic reply was "bullshit" again. He implied that I would "dream them up at will" mostly just to annoy players, then he left the squad without giving me a chance to explain. That behaviour (openly ignoring server rules) was the reason for his ban, which I am willing to discuss. Nadjer complained at the same time, it was noted, but he did it in a manner that did not even call for a kick.

This behaviour is what I mostly get when I am enforcing a server rule and quite normal, so I will not complain. I would just like to make this clear:

We introduced the rule against attacking crossed out flags on 762 after SEVERAL requests by players and admins of 762 (on a personal note it was NOT my idea) to achieve 2 things:

A) reduce spawnraping for score.
B) make the maps play out as intended by the Devs.
(by gently forcing players onto the paths of the flag succession devised by the Developers).

Seen as now, the rule seems to cause more problems than it solves.

- Players and sometimes even admins don't get when flags switch because they don't check the map.
- Admins are confused because they do not know when exactly to kick for attacking uncaps - which always has to be a matter of personal decision.


That is why I open this poll and discussion thread about the removal of the crossed flag rule. My own vote would be to remove it, that is why I write here. As I see it, the 2.45 push mode makes it superfluous in most cases. The removal might get us more "spawnkills". But it will definitely open up the maps tactically. I am keen to hear your opinion.

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Good night, everyone!
x4fun I<ODIUM>I
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE on 29-07-2012, 05:07:46
only issue I have had on 762 server was me escaping the main allied base on brest, and hiding out as S.L.  in a blown up building just past gardens. I was repeatedly warned about attacking xmarked flags.  I also repeatedly announced via  chat that I was not attacking but merely making a new spawn for my squadmates.    I was not kicked  :)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Ahonen on 29-07-2012, 07:07:00
I'm for removing it.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: IrishReloaded on 29-07-2012, 08:07:29
remove.
Why: no more sneaking behind, which is a lot of fun in fH2. / But I can undestand the idea behind it - I just personally dont like it.

and about ABC line cause I read it again:
ABC= no go area, not "dont fire in area" and there is auto bleed inside this area for enemy team, so there is no need that an admin takes care of that.
ABC line is so drawn that you cant move to a position where you could rape the mainbase, nothing else. Its not ment to protect you all the way.
The constant crying "oh he killed me in abc zone" is simply annyoing and wrong. I must be removed.

so and now motorway home yeah :D 
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Paythoss on 29-07-2012, 08:07:55
Remove .... some admins and they pets  don't care about rules anyway . Specially on Sidi Bouzi , where some bastard was still shooting  in to the US Army main base spawn from 88 . 
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 29-07-2012, 09:07:12
remove.
Why: no more sneaking behind, which is a lot of fun in fH2. / But I can undestand the idea behind it - I just personally dont like it.

and about ABC line cause I read it again:
ABC= no go area, not "dont fire in area" and there is auto bleed inside this area for enemy team, so there is no need that an admin takes care of that.
ABC line is so drawn that you cant move to a position where you could rape the mainbase, nothing else. Its not ment to protect you all the way.
The constant crying "oh he killed me in abc zone" is simply annyoing and wrong. I must be removed.

so and now motorway home yeah :D

Question to you IrishReloaded,

do you like to be killed if you are in your mainbase if you are jumping into a plane or a tank, or something else?

A little story to this:

long time ago, some of my clanmates and i joined an BF2 Vanilla server, it was called someting with "no rules". It was on Cubra Dam. 1. round, we are US, we try to get our jets, tanks and helicopters into the fight. But on the MEC team the player are bombing into our uncap an destroyed everything and anyone.

Players complained about the situation and a lot of players left our team and the round ended after a few minutes.

to be continued...
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: ajappat on 29-07-2012, 09:07:43
A little story to this:

long time ago, some of my clanmates and i joined an BF2 Vanilla server, it was called someting with "no rules". It was on Cubra Dam. 1. round, we are US, we try to get our jets, tanks and helicopters into the fight. But on the MEC team the player are bombing into our uncap an destroyed everything and anyone.

Players complained about the situation and a lot of players left our team and the round ended after a few minutes.

to be continued...
That story is completely irrelevant. vBF2 does not have ABC lines, unlike FH2.

Otherwise, I'm too biased to comment anything on this thread  :-*
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: DaWorg! on 29-07-2012, 09:07:44
remove.
Why: no more sneaking behind, which is a lot of fun in fH2. / But I can undestand the idea behind it - I just personally dont like it.

and about ABC line cause I read it again:
ABC= no go area, not "dont fire in area" and there is auto bleed inside this area for enemy team, so there is no need that an admin takes care of that.
ABC line is so drawn that you cant move to a position where you could rape the mainbase, nothing else. Its not ment to protect you all the way.
The constant crying "oh he killed me in abc zone" is simply annyoing and wrong. I must be removed.

so and now motorway home yeah :D 

Agree with the red part :D

Anyways i'm for this rule to stay. In ideal situation it forces people to actually retreat from crossed flag, instead of fighting there till dead.
Another reason is, that crossed flags should be something like "secured" territory. Without random bazooka people annoying tankerss, engies and scouts lying mines, or spawncampers there

Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 29-07-2012, 09:07:11
By any means ajappat, share it. That is why I asked.

[...]
ABC line is so drawn that you cant move to a position where you could rape the mainbase, nothing else. Its not ment to protect you all the way.
[...]

Irish: If you cannot shoot into the spawns when you stand outside ABCs: please think of a Tiger standing on the ABC of the Canadian base (western half of it) on Totalize. Can he hit players just getting into the M10 or the Churchill? I'd say so. We wanted the people at least to have a chance of getting in their vehicles before being shot. :)

But mainly this thread is about the crossed out flags that switch.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Musti on 29-07-2012, 09:07:36
Remove this shiz, its just plain wrong.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: ajappat on 29-07-2012, 09:07:58
Well, out of my experience on hslan, allowing attacking on crossed flags, has no negative impact on gameplay. Sometimes some people might attack uncap flags, yes, but that basically just makes it easier for defending side, as some of attackers are wasting their time at uncap.

About spawn rape, I have never even warned anyone about spawnrape on uncap flag. I'm not saying it could not happen, but it's rare and relatively small problem, because afterall it is uncap and defending side won't probably spawn there because they have no need to defend it. On top of that, every flag has several spawn points, so chances are, that if you get killed on one, you likely just spawn on other point and go kill that camper.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 29-07-2012, 09:07:02
Well, that wasn't so bad, ajappat ;)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Zoologic on 29-07-2012, 09:07:13
IIRC, crossed flags are designed so that gameplay reflects the actual battle as it happened in the real world.

That doesn't mean gamers can't improvise, right? It is what all Battlefield-based games supposed to do: sandbox environment for us to be creative enough, have some fun, and devise a good strategy.

Rules like these are what Call of Duty games is all about. Some guys just stand there and not moving until you move across a market stall or some shitpile the game designer use as an event trigger. Plain stupid and campy. I'd rather watch an FPS movie instead.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 29-07-2012, 09:07:36
@ ajappat

my story isnt about the ABC line, its about killing player in their mainbase. You can kill player in their base if the layout allows for it. And if there are planes it is no problem too.

to complete the story,

the next round we are again US but now we got some backup from our whole clan, now we did the same with MEC, no plane and helicopter could start. Then our whole clan was kicked from the admin. Because of killing them in their mainbase.

But now back to topic like Odium said, its a thread about crossed out flags
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: ajappat on 29-07-2012, 10:07:19
@ ajappat

my story isnt about the ABC line, its about killing player in their mainbase. You can kill player in their base if the layout allows for it. And if there are planes it is no problem too.

to complete the story,

the next round we are again US but now we got some backup from our whole clan, now we did the same with MEC, no plane and helicopter could start. Then our whole clan was kicked from the admin. Because of killing them in their mainbase.

But now back to topic like Odium said, its a thread about crossed out flags
Really? Tell a story parted in 2 posts and then tell people to get back on topic.  ::)

That is still completely irrelevant to FH2.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 29-07-2012, 10:07:26
Only fordid attacks against main bases. Aerial attacks are IMHO fine since you have the tools to take out planes but tanks camping outside the main or artillerying the main is not fair game. Its easier to repair an AA gun and take out the plane than it is to repair an AT-gun and take out a tank just outside your base.

Fortunately many maps have such wide ABC lines drawn on them that the enemy has less chance to actually effectively "camp" the main. Anything outside the ABC lines is just fair game imho, crossed-out-flags or not.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 29-07-2012, 11:07:47
I think you don't understand the problem, but tell me why it is completely irrelevant to FH2 to baserape the opponent base.

I am thirsty for knowledge, maybe you could explain.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: ajappat on 29-07-2012, 11:07:18
I think you don't understand the problem, but tell me why it is completely irrelevant to FH2 to baserape the opponent base.

I am thirsty for knowledge, maybe you could explain.
Exactly what problem? Problem that you got baseraped in battlefield 2?

Got similar experience in FH2 you could share with us? Baserape is against rules atleast on hslan an 762, the 2 most common server. Hslan prohibits shooting directly to vehicle and player spawns, while 762 prohibits shooting behind ABC line. If the shooting behind ABC line rule was taken out on 762, they would probably still not allow shooting into base.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Ciupita on 29-07-2012, 11:07:54
By any means ajappat, share it. That is why I asked.

[...]
ABC line is so drawn that you cant move to a position where you could rape the mainbase, nothing else. Its not ment to protect you all the way.
[...]

Irish: If you cannot shoot into the spawns when you stand outside ABCs: please think of a Tiger standing on the ABC of the Canadian base (western half of it) on Totalize. Can he hit players just getting into the M10 or the Churchill? I'd say so. We wanted the people at least to have a chance of getting in their vehicles before being shot. :)

But mainly this thread is about the crossed out flags that switch.

Yeah, there is a difference between main base and crossed out flags... Main base raping is pure shit and should not be allowed, crossed out flags on the other hand.. yeah, remove the rule. You can still have "don't attack/shoot at main base" rule.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: LuckyOne on 29-07-2012, 11:07:34
Even if mainbase attack was allowed you often have the tools to fight it off. On most maps there are either a few AA or AT guns to help you fend off the attackers. But mostly enemies have no need to go there... If they do you're doing something wrong.

Attacking temporary uncaps/crossed out flags should be allowed. After all it's war and no place is safe in war. The enemy could be anywhere at any time. If he wants to lay an ambush near an uncap then so be it. However maybe auto spawn blocking zone should be widened, so you don't spawn directly in front of an enemy if he's near the spawn point, as opposed to standing on the spawn point as it is now.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: -Svea-Livgarde- on 29-07-2012, 13:07:52
I say remove rule on crossed flags (keeping rule on mainbases of course). It creates strange situations where you are told by an admin to get out of an crossed flag when you went there when it still was capturable. Sometimes running with your back from the enemy. If a team wants to win they sometime or later have to go to the open flag.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: IrishReloaded on 29-07-2012, 13:07:06
Quote
Irish: If you cannot shoot into the spawns when you stand outside ABCs: please think of a Tiger standing on the ABC of the Canadian base (western half of it) on Totalize. Can he hit players just getting into the M10 or the Churchill? I'd say so. We wanted the people at least to have a chance of getting in their vehicles before being shot.

Directly Raping of Mainbase is not good, but you and your follow admins seem to spread out the Mainbase till the end of the ABC line which is crap. In addition you have several - strong - at guns spread out in the base, further - espessially on Totalize 3 bofors - aa guns which clean the air.
Then there is a difference between "nice" and " usefull" Not everything that is usefull is nice - and still it is a wargame. Its not ment to be nice. Espessially I dislike the part "dont shot here" as this was not the fact in any war.

Quote
Question to you IrishReloaded,

do you like to be killed if you are in your mainbase if you are jumping into a plane or a tank, or something else?
I dont like getting killed in the game at any place - no matter if at front or in base. If I get killed I try something different, and do not run to the same position again and again. If the base or the last flag is raped I try to sneak out, or I join a squad which is outside this deathfull position. Finding a solution to the problem is much more satisfying then crying imo.

The following statement may sound harsh but its fact.
If a team is getting raped inside their base or their flag its almost always this teams fault, cause they simply sucked.

ABC line fire in: yes
ABC drive in : no, not possible
Attack uncaps: yes
Kill ppl at uncap spawm: yes, they can change spawmpoint or if enemy blocks spawmpoint you spawm automaticly somewhere else.
Fire mainbase: for me yes but for the will of the game no.
But, mainbase =/= abc line. Mainbase is only for me the planquadrat where the Mainbase symbol is.


so and now some formula 1 and beer - see you later on the battlefield
edit: if all servers would use official rules ect we would not have this discussion
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Ts4EVER on 29-07-2012, 14:07:17
IMO if oyu can do something ingame then just assume that the devs want you to be able to do it. They don't want you to be able to drive into the enemy mainbase, so they place abc areas. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be able to shoot into them. Of course on most maps there will be hills or buildings placed in front of it.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Capten_C on 29-07-2012, 14:07:41
How many times have 99% of players goten into the capzone of a cappable flag, only for it to become a crossed out uncap as some rogue enemy squad somewhere backcaps a flag.  >:(

What do you do then? Sprint for 5 minutes wasting your gametime evading the enemies wrath back to the nearest cappable? Or stay and FIGHT like you do in most first person shooter games?

Or obey ze rulez and suicide? Losing your team valuable tickets?

REMOVE PLEASE!
  ;)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Smiles on 29-07-2012, 14:07:35
Remove, ridiculous rule as explained by capten c. What do you want me to do? Suicide because a flag has been made uncap? Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE on 29-07-2012, 14:07:47
I hate when people are off attacking uncap flags, and it's a shame so many people support it. Though a lot of my complaints would be easily solved if FH2 adopted one of my beliefs, and that belief being that every flag on every 64-sized map should require at least 2 people to capture it. And the other main reason is that it's so vague and worded awkwardly in server rules, it's not nearly as clear as people seem to want to pretend it is.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: pureperversions on 29-07-2012, 14:07:46
personaly my view is
the last flag should never be attackable by arty/ground forces unless you can cap it at that point
main bases never attackable by ground forces/arty
abc line is a line of no crossing, you can shoot freely past it
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Ronson on 29-07-2012, 14:07:31
Hello Odi, I agree it should be removed. Everything apart from an uncappable mainbase should be a fair target. C'est la guerre.

Some maps really require you to attack crossed-out flags if you want a total victory - I'm thinking especially of Brest and Siege of Tobruk (unless they've changed significantly in the new patch, haven't played them in 2.45). It is almost impossible to get the final flag on those maps unless you get people in the zone ready to attack before the flag unlocks. A few times on Brest I've seen SLs get kicked from the 762 server for skilfully infiltrating the last Axis base, ready to spawn their squad as soon as it unlocks for an exciting final assault. But without that tactic the map usually ends with 20mins of grind and spawnraping which only the Allied tankers enjoy.

Many years back on the Wolf FH1 server there was a rule that you were free to 'pre-cap' locked flags in a push map - you could get into position ready to atack flag #2 before flag #1 had fallen, but you weren't supposed to shoot enemies in the immediate cap area until the flag actually unlocked. That always seemed the best balance to me, but it was sometimes a real headache for admins to police. Overall I think the fewer rules the better - 'play fair' and 'don't be a dick' covers just about every situation, in my opinion ;)

But I also agree with Andrew that 2+ man cap zones should be the norm - have a lot of these been removed in 2.45?
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: McCloskey on 29-07-2012, 15:07:58
Bullshit, operating near another uncap is called disrupting enemy supply lines and is a perfectly valid tactic. What monkey came up with this "rule"? No way I'm letting someone (an admin) restrict my movement around the map as to where I'm allowed to go, if the game actually allows me to go there. And usually it's not easy anyway, since there should be dozens of enemies around, ready to shoot me at sight - if there aren't, then too bad for the enemy team.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 29-07-2012, 15:07:31
The problem I see with removing this rule is that some of the maps will clearly loose their charm. Best example is Hurtgen Forest. Simply camp with one single guy in Germeter the whole round and open up a squad if it becomes capable. The rest is for your imagination. I saw several matches ending like this and it is just boring to win or loose a match without fighting.
That a flag becomes crossed out and you are still there doesn't mean that you are forced to suicide or leave the fight. Most important point of this rules is to avoid excessive spawnrape on crossed out flags. Not everybody gets kicked because he kills someone on a crossed out flag. On Maps like St. Vith this is unavoidable for example, since you can fire from flag to flag.

What the most people tend to forget, is the quiet realistic tactic of retreat. But only a few people do this and the only tactic that seems to be known is to attack, attack and once more ... attack. Defending in FH2 isn't interesting for the majority - atleast that's my experience. When I am the SL I give my squad the order to fall back.

If the community thinks, that this rule should be removed, then I am fine with it - but my vote will be against. Attacking mainbases is a totaly different subject and I think that attacking the mainbase is forbidden on many servers speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: psykfallet on 29-07-2012, 15:07:47
some seems to think this rule is also on 96 test server, it isnt is it? Was a lot of whining yesterday. Because I know devs are against this rule.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: McCloskey on 29-07-2012, 15:07:31
What the most people tend to forget, is the quiet realistic tactic of retreat. But only a few people do this and the only tactic that seems to be known is to attack, attack and once more ... attack. Defending in FH2 isn't interesting for the majority - atleast that's my experience. When I am the SL I give my squad the order to fall back.

That's because falling back has no real meaning in the game because you can always just spawn on the nearest flag after you die, UNLESS the flag behind you you want to spawn on is being capped by the enemy and it would mean your team (you) would have to regain the once held position again.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Lainer on 29-07-2012, 15:07:03
  I don't really give two shits for 7.62 or its lame rules but I scrolled through all this crap looking for a colorful post by shiek. ;D

I am more then just a little disappointed.  :(
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: THeTA0123 on 29-07-2012, 15:07:12
  I don't really give two shits for 7.62 or its lame rules but I scrolled through all this crap looking for a colorful post by shiek. ;D

I am more then just a little disappointed.  :(
Same here :(

But i to am for removing this rule. I was almost kicked several days ago when i was doing a heroic defense on st vith...When suddently like half the german army came and capped the last flag of the first defense line....I saw like 10 enemies immediatly coming my way wich i heroicly defeated with all of my ammo (i was anti-tank kit)

Then they start to bitch because i was "Supposedly" attacking the uncap :/

REMOVE!
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 29-07-2012, 15:07:16
What is more important is the question what works in practice and what not. I see people asking to skip a certain map because one side gets raped on the exit of their base. Best example is St. Vith. We emptied a server by playing this map to the very end on the 762 #1 with german soldiers never being able to leave the base and get raped while spawning in their base.

People have to get rid of the way of thinking, that the Devs are always right with their design desicions and have to start to give their honest feedback. Because I don't think that the devs had in mind to empty a server while playing a certain map. In this case their design desicions failed and this has nothing to do with 762 servers offering a certain set of rules or not. Same goes for the tanking system and that many things got nerfed in 2.45 (artillery for example). Maps got changed and tweaked to death, where no tweak was needed from the gameplay POV - Meuse River is a good example. Than more I play 2.45, than more I wish 2.4 back tbh - with some changes made in 2.45 ofcourse.

2.4 felt like a revolution in playing FH2 and in playing shooter games in general for me. 2.45 feels like a step backwards besides some little improvements that took almost a year. We had extremely good player counts with 2.4 after the release for several months. Now - two weeks after the release of 2.45 - we have almost the same playercount as before 2.45 with a little gleam of hope caused by the 96 player code.


That's just a little advise how to argue about it so please don't take it offensive - not just throw in "the devs don't want it". Errare humanum est - and the devs are also humans and can make mistakes too though some things about this mod seem to be from another world quality wise and in a positive way.

Now back on topic, but please with practical reasons.  ;)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Kev4000 on 29-07-2012, 16:07:45
I hope the ban isn't for long - people get aggravated and say stuff without thinking through. No reason to issue a ban for more then a day unless its repeated/constant. As among the most populated servers, 762 has a responsibility to not shun otherwise good players from the community. Permabans or year+ bans should be used on confirmed hackers.

As for attacking uncaps, devs don't have a consensus on it. My personal opinion?
Stealing the flak vierling on mareth before a single outpost is capped? Warning then kick then if repeated ban 2 hours. Increased duration for each repeat.
Rushing through an outpost with an APC on the way to flank a captureable one, killing 5 guys in the uncap base on the way: Flanking maneuver not intentionally camping an uncap.

Typically, attacking the uncaps presents little problem. It'll do no good for attackers, the manpower could be used elsewhere. Most of the time it'll give the attacking team more of a disadvantage.
There's more reason to kick someone attacking an uncap because he is not helping his team, instead of kicking him for killing defenders in their base.

It presents a large grey-area, and the vast majority of the cases should not call for a kick. Without more clarification to the grey area, I'd vote for removing the rule. Intent is key.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 29-07-2012, 16:07:07
I don't know whether I am right about this, but I witnessed this situation yesterday via TS. Sheik got several warnings not to attack an uncap, and in the last instance Odium joint his squad to talk to him about this situation.
It is like driving drunk. You aren't allowed to do so, but if you do it - then you have to life with the consequences. Atleast that's my point of view. Most people "respect" this rule and act according to it on the server. It is a rules where you have to act with common sense as an admin and not abuse it and admins are called upon to do so.
I drove with my StuH to lambert north yesterday though it was crossed out, just to get behind Unique who was camping on his usual spot and I simply had no other chance. I think nobody got ever kicked for such moves and I think it is out of question that you can do it.

But I also experienced situations, that weren't fun at all for many people and where people were abusing the push mode and the gameplay mechanics to an extent where fair play ends for sure. Best example was St. Lo in 2.4. In several matches there was a grey flag that locked the last german flag for the allied team. But instead of caping the grey flag and end up the round many allied players were using this situation to push their score. Zykloon got warned to not arty this crossed out flag over ten minutes but he had nothing better to do than raping the spawning inf. The tanks weren't moving to the mentioned grey flag to cap it, but kept on raping spawning inf as well. After Zykloon and other players got kicked, he came back to the server and started a flame war against Gotkai (who was enforcing the rule with the right sensibility) and insulted other players aswell. For this he got a two weeks ban and if you ask me with right. One game night ended on Sidi Rezegh because one side was using the game to it's full potential.

These are extreme examples, but they nevertheless happen. And only because of these situations I support this rule. When a player isn't able to play the game itslef anymore because he got killed the moment he spawns in his base, you can shut down the servers. Players are evil  >:(
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: KnowYourEnemy123 on 29-07-2012, 18:07:50
Wow so many people for removing...

Don't remove it. It's stupid, and will only result in stats whores camping and just being annoying.

If removed, what's going to happen to hurtgen forest's final sections ? Every German is, and should be defending the uncapturable flag ( can't remember the name ) which is already very hard to hold on to. Before the flag is capture, a full american squad goes to germeter while it's still uncap and take position in one of the houses. When the the uncappable flag goes down, germans fall back and germeter goes down 10 seconds later. Germans lose.

Removing the rule makes no sense at all. What about Bastogne ? I can see a german squad destroying every american tank in the base before they get out of there.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Ts4EVER on 29-07-2012, 18:07:28
Isn't there a delay now on Hurtgen? Something like 30 seconds before the flag gets unlocked?
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hyperanthropos on 29-07-2012, 18:07:19
The reaction in the forum which is vastly different from the actual and complete Fh community is of course obvious. In my opinion the only people who activly attack uncaps are either noobs or stat whores. Of course there are certain situations in which a flag gets back capped and a squad ends up in a uncap flag, but when there is no hope to backcapped flag gets capped by your team again, of you should get out of there and attack the backcapped falg again!
Its not stupid to have such a rule it just corrects the ignorance, stupuidity or lack of understanding of players. I have read this so often in this forum "I dont want my movement to be restricted", when you are attacking an uncap flag you are a useless player for your team (in the majority of cases, or course the exeptions). I think its just a excuse to stick to your usual game style or a lack of understnading of the map. "Sneaking" behind lines is in the most cases just lame like S mining spawnpoints... be all know those guys. Having a squad camping in an uncao falg very often results an a loss of a huge part of the intended gameplay if the map, when the first falg get capped and the second (former uncap) gets also capped right away. Is this how the map should be played? Certainly not!

I think and always thougt this rule corrects maps and behavior of players. Its a great and needed addition, which Fh as it comes form the Devs lacks, please dont remove it. Atleast not on the bases of this forum, way to much 762 haters etc.

It  has always been a reason for me to play 762 rather than hslan and its great to have a chance to decide which kind of gameplay you like. The lack of this rule made certain maps on hslan very bad for me, some vastly annoying.

For those you want to rule removed I can only say one thing. Get hslan going again. pretty sure it hasnt been really up also more then two weeks after the release 2.45 you have a great hslan fanbase here it has to be possible. Never been a great hslan fan as I said, but I still somehow miss the server.
NOT REMOVE

Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Strat_84 on 29-07-2012, 18:07:22
The problem I see with removing this rule is that some of the maps will clearly loose their charm. Best example is Hurtgen Forest. Simply camp with one single guy in Germeter the whole round and open up a squad if it becomes capable.

If one guy manages to sneak there, going through the bunkers, MGs and the entire German team, then he deserves to cap Germeter with this trick. Not that I really approve this way to play but that's the kind of thing almost impossible to achieve if the players in front aren't completely retarded.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: kingtiger1891 on 29-07-2012, 18:07:30
Some experience on 762:

Fall of Tobruk: Driving pzIVF1 and attacking the last British cp, then British stole harbour and their last cp became crossed out. I was immediatly warned by an admin(on British team of course) that I must leave and stop attacking the crossed out cp. Why I can't just wait for my teammates to capture harbour again and continue suppressing the enemy?

Hurtgen: American captured their second last flag and armor start spawning on German side, so I grab a Stuka zu fus and fire to the American cp, I get kicked. Because that cp can't be recaptured and it's crossed out. So what can axis team do now? According to this rule they can't attack any enemy cp atm while the American can attack their last flag. If it's for the sake of spawn raping prevention then the rule can just prevent spawn raping on one side, fair?

The most serious problem is how the admin judge people on this rule, IMO some admin judge on their interest only.

Goodwood: Grab a Panther and killed an admin, he's on the very edge of blue abc line, I got kicked. We all know how Goodwood looks like, so what if I take a few step backward, drive inside red abc line and shoot enemy from there? If I got kicked for killing people on the edge of blue line, people who try to attack me in red line should be kicked too? But I don't think the admin would do a damn thing if I get killed.


But this rule has its place, playing Mereth line you would hate those d*ck who steal flak, put mines on Gabes before Mareth is even captured, or playing Falaise and someone sneak into allied cp, steal 6pdrs and shoot Shermans when they're just a few meters out of base. So how about changing this rule to: Don't mine or steal vehicles in crossed out.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: TASSER on 29-07-2012, 19:07:25
I feel it is more annoying and game-ruining to constantly see in chat "DON'T ATTACK UNCAP. READ THE RULES."

I've noticed that uncap raping is rarely an issue on any of the servers. I'd be happy to see the rule go.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: pureperversions on 29-07-2012, 19:07:40
as few people hae also said its also problem linked to few admins who as soon as flag changes to unlocked will act on people esp if you kill them, even if in a sitation where you are greying a flag slowly and there is a rapid lose of one of your rear flags
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Surfbird on 29-07-2012, 20:07:33
I'm for removing it.

Why: Personal freedom on the battlefield. Why not flank the whole enemy lines and get close to that crossed out flag. People camping on it are stupid anyway. But as soon as you get close to it, someone is already flaming you, which is the actual bad thing. Whatever, usually it makes sense not to get close to that positions anyway, but sometimes there are just situational things that lead to close in on a crossed out flag.

But most important. Like TASSER also mentioned, is that the whole shittalk going on is the biggest issue on 762. I can live with your rules in general, but rules also mean hate and accusations among the players which is the worst thing of all. One rule less = less hateful community = 1 reason more for me to get on your server.

The not attacking uncap rule is one of the sources of a sometimes really annoying community on your server. Make sure that baserape is not allowed though.

cheers
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 29-07-2012, 21:07:15
First of all I have to say thanks for so many replies in only one day!
Neo, Knallkopp and I have agreed to leave the vote on bf2awards.de (see link in first post) open until next Sunday. So all you need to do is login there and vote, if you wish.

@Kev4000: Thanks for your 2 pence on this. I see what you mean by the proposed kicks. My problem is that IF we remove the rule and then kick for something that the player is not informed about beforehand in the loading screen we loose credibility.

People who are kicked for raping crossed flags without a rule that forbids it, will have the same feeling they got before I started handling the rules and admin team on 762 Servers. Namely that admins would act arbitrarily and make up their rules as they please.

That I want to avoid by any means. That is why all new admins on 762 are instructed to act on the fixed, given rules only and the players who join 762 servers managed by our admins can rely on what they read in the loading screen.

So if we remove the rule and narrow it down to something like "No attacking of mainbases and ABCs" we have to trust in the players to play the maps as they were intended to be played by the Devs - and thereby give them free hand on the maps. That might be a leap of faith but I would do it.

If an forum mod could insert a poll to this thread about removing or keeping the crossed flag rule, that would be much appreciated since I as user cannot do that. That way next sunday we can go over both Polls and then act on their results.

I banned sheikyerbouti because of repeated flaming and the ignoring of the said rule.
How our timed bans work can be read up in the "FH2 Server Rules" subsections of our boards.
We have not had any troubles with him before so it is 2 weeks and he is welcome to join after that. 

We all have some crappy days from time to time but we cannot let players go on full rampage because of it. I hope that can be understood.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Ciupita on 29-07-2012, 21:07:57
Poll is up.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: TASSER on 29-07-2012, 21:07:27
I think I speak for a good majority of FH2 players in saying that I really, really appreciate the fact that the 762 admins have brought an issue like this up to the community for discussion. It's incredibly refreshing to see that "the powers that be" have recognized that there may be some controversy surrounding a topic and have met it in an open manner rather than just brushing it off as "it's the rules, live with it or GTFO."

Well done guys :) I'd like to see this become a recurring trend throughout the FH2 world!
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE on 29-07-2012, 23:07:51
It's an awkward rule because sometimes attacking an crossed-out flag (COF for this post) is reasonable, and sometimes it's just shit playing and detracts from the experience.

Scenario 1 - Port-en-Bessin, and the British set up in the field west of Church, suppressing enemy infantry spawning at the Outskirts flag to make their push on church more successful. That's a clever team doing what a clever team does.

Scenario 2 - Port-en-Bessin, and the British drive 2 Bren Carriers and a Sherman to Widerstandnest before the 3 flags in front of it have even seen enemy fire. The guys in the Bren carriers mine the shit out of the German spawn bunkers, and the Sherman sits behind where the StuG spawns, spawnkilling for 20 minutes until someone manages to faust it (which would be nearly impossible).

Kind of drastic examples but the point is that the COF rule doesn't differentiate between the two activities, when one is a legitimate way to play the game and the other is useless and serves no purpose other than to frustrate players into ragequitting.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 29-07-2012, 23:07:21
How many times have 99% of players goten into the capzone of a cappable flag, only for it to become a crossed out uncap as some rogue enemy squad somewhere backcaps a flag.  >:(

What do you do then? Sprint for 5 minutes wasting your gametime evading the enemies wrath back to the nearest cappable? Or stay and FIGHT like you do in most first person shooter games?

Or obey ze rulez and suicide? Losing your team valuable tickets?

REMOVE PLEASE!
  ;)

 ^ This
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Slayer on 30-07-2012, 00:07:58
Wow so many people for removing...

Don't remove it. It's stupid, and will only result in stats whores camping and just being annoying.

If removed, what's going to happen to hurtgen forest's final sections ? Every German is, and should be defending the uncapturable flag ( can't remember the name ) which is already very hard to hold on to. Before the flag is capture, a full american squad goes to germeter while it's still uncap and take position in one of the houses. When the the uncappable flag goes down, germans fall back and germeter goes down 10 seconds later. Germans lose.

Removing the rule makes no sense at all. What about Bastogne ? I can see a german squad destroying every american tank in the base before they get out of there.
Wow, so naive. You make it sound like what you describe is never gonna happen when a server has a rule to prevent attacking crossed out flags. Btw: if they take position in a house, not firing at any enemy (which would be smart, btw, otherwise they would be detected very soon), they aren't actually attacking it, making the entire rule redundant.

The reaction in the forum which is vastly different from the actual and complete Fh community is of course obvious. In my opinion the only people who activly attack uncaps are either noobs or stat whores. Of course there are certain situations in which a flag gets back capped and a squad ends up in a uncap flag, but when there is no hope to backcapped flag gets capped by your team again, of you should get out of there and attack the backcapped falg again!

And there is a huge difference between being at a flag which suddenly becomes crossed out and all out attacking it. You want to punish only the latter (at least I hope so), but very often, people who fit in the first category get kicked for it. A nice example of a bad rule, where people with good intentions get punished for the bad deeds of a minority.

"Getting out of there", does that mean I can't fire at enemies? In a shootergame? This isn't called "UN missions", you know...

Also, you turn this into a 762 vs hslan topic, pls don't do that. I really appreciate it that
Odium posts this thread here, and now you read stuff which you dislike, you troll? Of course you know that some people will jump on your post like that, so pls refrain from posts like that.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Oddball on 30-07-2012, 00:07:48
My thoughts are remove. If FH2 is suppose to be based off realism, well then war is hell... tough luck. Besides, It's legit military tactic to cut off supply lines, which could be considered part of this strategy, stopping planes, tanks, etc. from reinforcing the enemy team...
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 30-07-2012, 00:07:39
I have to second Slayer. Please keep it clean and constructive. I expected the same due to other reasons like the simple fact that alot of 762 long time players aren't registered here in this forum. In the 762 forum it might look completely different. But this is a total different story.

The positive and the negative sides of this rule are clearly vissible, but whether you punish one player for attacking an uncap is less dramatic than making a server empty due to alot of ragequits. Atleast this is my point of view.

And as said earlier. You don't get kicked, because a flag got just crossed out and you defend yourself. You don't get kicked because you drive near to an uncap. This rule is for me really just there to prevent excessive spawnraping and lame tactics that make the sense of pushmode obsolete. Ofcourse an admin will kick you, after he gets killed the third time at his spawn at an uncap - what do you expect. These are the guys who notice behaviour like this at the first instance. But a wise admin will warn you first and act according to the situation.

The real difficulty is to judge, where the edge is? It is a fine line between laming on an uncap and defending yourself. If the rule gets really removed, I am excited how this will work out - because then some of our really dirty players will rape the hell out of us and that's for sure


@Oddballs Post: Then why do you place the vehicles on the maps, if they get blown up anyway the moment they move a little. You can make your supply line cuts and ninja moves still if the flag is capable and the center of the action. Atleast that's how I do it on other maps like Mareth. It is not like that we have tons of vehicle depots in this game but I want to see those beauties in action.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Slayer on 30-07-2012, 01:07:56
And as said earlier. You don't get kicked, because a flag got just crossed out and you defend yourself. You don't get kicked because you drive near to an uncap. This rule is for me really just there to prevent excessive spawnraping and lame tactics that make the sense of pushmode obsolete. Ofcourse an admin will kick you, after he gets killed the third time at his spawn at an uncap - what do you expect. These are the guys who notice behaviour like this at the first instance. But a wise admin will warn you first and act according to the situation.
Change the rule into "don't spawnrape"? I mean, spawnraping at a cappable flag is equally annoying, but there is no rule against that, right?

@ ragequits: 1) these get caused by raping (among other things), see my point above. 2) experienced players will not ragequit, they will tell admins about the raping and the respective player(s) will get a warning etc., right? In my experience most people ragequit when there is no admin (and then whichever rules you have - those "bad players" will have a go anyway), or when they have a bad day themselves.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Fuchs on 30-07-2012, 02:07:47
I only came here for Sheik's reply. Disappointed. OP does not deliver.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: LtJimmy on 30-07-2012, 03:07:44
I only came here for Sheik's reply. Disappointed. OP does not deliver.
(http://images.wikia.com/playstationallstarsbattleroyale/images/3/3a/ScruffySecond_3-s200x200-149655-535.jpg)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Zoologic on 30-07-2012, 04:07:43
So basically, the rule is trying to make the pub server a tournament-wannabe now?

I'd say remove the rules and let the server admins judge the situation thoroughly using his own knowledge, be it rules and no rules.

So improve the admin quality, not just creating more rules.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hyperanthropos on 30-07-2012, 12:07:42
So basically, the rule is trying to make the pub server a tournament-wannabe now?

I'd say remove the rules and let the server admins judge the situation thoroughly using his own knowledge, be it rules and no rules.

So improve the admin quality, not just creating more rules.

Let the admis judge the situation by their own knowledge? first 762 admins are experienced enough to judge situations their quality is high enough, whatever the 762 haters in here say about situations that occured years ago.
Second when the admins would only judge on their own knowledge, but without a base of rules it would be the biggest shitstorm in this forum for "totally arbitrarry kicks on 762" ever. You need a set of rules to base kicks etc. on.
The rules trys to make the server into a tournament "Wannabe"? The rule trys to enhance the experience the gameplay which again I think it does very well. I dont want to see the spawnrape fest when it is removed.
A Anti spawnrape rule would be much harder to define than just go with the dont attack uncap rule.

restricting your movement in the battlefield? Yes sure it does, because in 90% percents actions that are considered attacking an uncap flag are stupid and dont accomplish anything for your team, the next 5% are so quick that no one would complain, like driver through an uncap, the othe 5% are bad luck. And form my point of view a rate of like 5% (as I would think the numbers are) is okay, for a better gameplay. So yes please restrict stupid movement on the battlefield, this argument is mostly to excuse rapinmg etc.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 30-07-2012, 12:07:56
So basically, the rule is trying to make the pub server a tournament-wannabe now?

I'd say remove the rules and let the server admins judge the situation thoroughly using his own knowledge, be it rules and no rules.

So improve the admin quality, not just creating more rules.

And that is the big problem of 762 before they started to recruit the set of admins, they have now. You need something to refer to as admin otherwise it just get's total chaos and admins start to abuse their priviliges. Thatswhy you have certain rules on every server - like "Don't attack mainbases", or rules to punish TK on purpose. Ofcourse it is not always easy to judge a situation right and there also happen mistakes, but overall admins on the FH servers are doing a good job. 762 never had in mind to set up a wanna-be tournament server. These rules were set up to deliver the best possible experience for the majority of the players - atleast that was the idea behind them and thre aren't too many rules (four if I am correct). Sometimes there are people on the server who do shit and say GTFO with your rules. But these players are a minority and don't stay long on the server. The majority of players on 762 welcomes the rules an acts quiet smart.

I have a quiet good example of how some rules can work in a positive or negative way. Yesterday I witnessed how Horstpetersens abused the possiblity to fire behind the ABC line on Eppelorf on the hslan server. Kwiot was always trying to get on the Nebelwerfer, but everytime Horst blew him up. At the same time Horst managed to blast with HE's into the further german spawn in the forrest what made this spawn and the Nebelwerfer placed there totaly useless. I think you all can imagine how Kwiot started whining  ;D -> in this case the lag of a rule led to a flame war and not the other way around.

Atm it is quiet calm on the 762 servers and I can't remember a flame war since some of these annoying people got banned or stoped playing there. I like as it is now - never change a runing system!
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE on 30-07-2012, 14:07:43
Been some weird logic in this thread. So it's apparently unfair that you attack a cappable flag which then becomes uncappable because of an enemy squad re-capping a flag somewhere else on the map, but when a squad sits around a flag they can't capture and then capture quickly when it becomes possible, the other team should have used teamwork to defend that flag in case of a quick cap? Shouldn't your team have used teamwork to prevent the other team recapping the flag that made yours cross out?

As for 'cutting off supply lines', that's half-legitimate and half-bullshit. On one hand, a sly enemy squad sneaking through my team's lines and causing havoc with mines or whatever else is fair enough - my team shouldn't have let that happen. Germans using 10 out of bounds paths to sneak into the middle of St. Lambert and s-mining spawn buildings on the three town flags is not disrupting supply lines, its being a piece of shit.

The reason I hate this rule so much is because it's so awkward to play by - I never really know if I should let my guard down or not, if there are implied safe zones on the map or not, and I try to play the game against enemies the way I want them to play against me, and I don't want to kill players in any way that serves only to frustrate them. My aim is to outfox the other players, and kamikazing through the first 3 flags deep on Tobruk in a tank, jumping out into the church and sniping enemies five miles from the front lines is playing like shit. I don't want anyone to do that to me and I don't want to do that to anyone.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: pureperversions on 30-07-2012, 14:07:15
but then you have situtations on say operation goodwood the north bridge axis side if you see a tank behind the bridge and shoot it you can get kicked/banned for shooting behind abc line so you have to wait for him to shoot you before can return fire
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Lightning on 30-07-2012, 14:07:01
ABC lines were added to prevent basecamping so the admin wouldn't have to do anything in this regard. It's not a 'safe zone'. Going right up to the line and shooting inside it should be perfectly fine, that's how it's designed.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: LuckyOne on 30-07-2012, 14:07:37

The reason I hate this rule so much is because it's so awkward to play by - I never really know if I should let my guard down or not, if there are implied safe zones on the map or not, and I try to play the game against enemies the way I want them to play against me, and I don't want to kill players in any way that serves only to frustrate them.

There ain't no "safe zone" in a battle. Mainbase can be considered relatively "safe" but even there you can get killed by an air attack. Since most of the maps depict attacks of forces, the "mainbases" are actually field HQs that serve as a starting point for an attack. The moment you spawn on the map you are part of the battle, and should never let your guard down.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Gotkai on 30-07-2012, 14:07:22
This is no battle, this is a game.  Maybe simulating a battle, but still a game.
Those Anti- Base-Camping-lines are not perfect. Maybe you can´t walk inside the area, but there are a lot of areas where this is not necessary to shoot the crap out of the guys spawning there.
I´d like to see a situation on Goodwood where the KT and the rest of the german tanks celebrate a campfest in front of the british abc-line.
Strafing Typhoons on Totalize.
Every single map with artillery pieces can ruin a day. 
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 30-07-2012, 15:07:56
ABC lines were added to prevent basecamping so the admin wouldn't have to do anything in this regard. It's not a 'safe zone'. Going right up to the line and shooting inside it should be perfectly fine, that's how it's designed.

But do you design the maps to frustrate players or do you want to get them on the flags (targets) and into fight - at the end playing the game? On alot of maps I can manage to cause total havoc with my squad in the enemy base, if it wasn't forbidden by server rules.
You have to imagnie the worst case possible. In this manor the German base at St. Vith is a deathtrap at it's best. Why do I start FH2, if I get slaughtered anyway the moment I spawn? - because then all gameplay mechanics fail and people ask to skip the map, what makes the map itself and alot of work totaly useless at the end. Thanks to all server admins that this isn't possible.

@Pureperversions: We had this discussion with Fair Player in the 762 forum and found a consense. You don't have to shot in there. Use your brain a littlebit to kill him and find a better position. You can still kill him the moment he exits the ABC line. I always ask myself how we manage to play the game on 762 ::)
People don't have the fun to play the game in mind (for all layers), but only a fast and easy kill.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: pureperversions on 30-07-2012, 18:07:31
he didnt leave just sat there taking shots at people as they randomly drove past and warning people who did shoot at him
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: [QPS]_Sex_Bomb on 30-07-2012, 18:07:04
My personal opinion on that...
If u manage to kill someone by any way the game is giving u, do so.  Let the game and the map set the rules.  Ex:  If the enemy uncapable flag is in reach of your arty, you should be allowed to shell that flag no matter what.

The game and the map design should enforce do's and dont's, not admins.  No surprise, I answered "Remove" to the poll.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: psykfallet on 30-07-2012, 19:07:48
ABC lines were added to prevent basecamping so the admin wouldn't have to do anything in this regard. It's not a 'safe zone'. Going right up to the line and shooting inside it should be perfectly fine, that's how it's designed.

But do you design the maps to frustrate players or do you want to get them on the flags (targets) and into fight - at the end playing the game? On alot of maps I can manage to cause total havoc with my squad in the enemy base, if it wasn't forbidden by server rules.
You have to imagnie the worst case possible. In this manor the German base at St. Vith is a deathtrap at it's best. Why do I start FH2, if I get slaughtered anyway the moment I spawn? - because then all gameplay mechanics fail and people ask to skip the map, what makes the map itself and alot of work totaly useless at the end. Thanks to all server admins that this isn't possible.

@Pureperversions: We had this discussion with Fair Player in the 762 forum and found a consense. You don't have to shot in there. Use your brain a littlebit to kill him and find a better position. You can still kill him the moment he exits the ABC line. I always ask myself how we manage to play the game on 762 ::)
People don't have the fun to play the game in mind (for all layers), but only a fast and easy kill.

lol. first you complain that the game isn't played as it is "intended", then you proceed to complain that devs have designed it wrong.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: kingtiger1891 on 30-07-2012, 19:07:42
ABC lines were added to prevent basecamping so the admin wouldn't have to do anything in this regard. It's not a 'safe zone'. Going right up to the line and shooting inside it should be perfectly fine, that's how it's designed.
^ This

That's how the design is, otherwise I can just grab a pzIV on Goodwood and drive it up the railway and shoots people from there, anyone who shoot me back should get kick by the rule since I'm inside abc line, ridiculous situation ::)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 30-07-2012, 19:07:15
ABC lines were added to prevent basecamping so the admin wouldn't have to do anything in this regard. It's not a 'safe zone'. Going right up to the line and shooting inside it should be perfectly fine, that's how it's designed.

Ok. That means, that i am allowed to kill and distroy everything with my plane, thats in the mainbase and ABC-line? I know some good players who could empty the complete server by using these tactics. They could destroy every vehicle and AA before they could be used.

I think that is not the idea to play a game.

Regards Knallkopp_02
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: ajappat on 30-07-2012, 19:07:23
ABC lines were added to prevent basecamping so the admin wouldn't have to do anything in this regard. It's not a 'safe zone'. Going right up to the line and shooting inside it should be perfectly fine, that's how it's designed.

Ok. That means, that i am allowed to kill and distroy everything with my plane, thats in the mainbase and ABC-line?
Regards Knallkopp_02

Welcome to hslan, and you can. And people are not complaining about it at all.

Edit: Regards the ABC line discussion: There's a lot to change if  we wish we could remove all base attacking rules. Currently you can indeed drive to edge of ABC and see every single enemy vehicle spawn from that position. That can be done on many maps. ABC should be moved much further away from bases, if devs wish it would actually stop base rapers.

I could actually make huge suggestion post regarding this.  :)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 30-07-2012, 19:07:51
And they would be happy to have no vehicles to fight. I dont belief this situation. I dont belief that players are happy to be cannon fodder.

If this is no problem for you, you can join again and again at my position or flag and i will kill you again and again. I would be happy to get this chance, but i think you would not be happy to end the round with maybe a k/d with 0/75. Or did you?

Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 30-07-2012, 20:07:22
ABC lines were added to prevent basecamping so the admin wouldn't have to do anything in this regard. It's not a 'safe zone'. Going right up to the line and shooting inside it should be perfectly fine, that's how it's designed.

But do you design the maps to frustrate players or do you want to get them on the flags (targets) and into fight - at the end playing the game? On alot of maps I can manage to cause total havoc with my squad in the enemy base, if it wasn't forbidden by server rules.
You have to imagnie the worst case possible. In this manor the German base at St. Vith is a deathtrap at it's best. Why do I start FH2, if I get slaughtered anyway the moment I spawn? - because then all gameplay mechanics fail and people ask to skip the map, what makes the map itself and alot of work totaly useless at the end. Thanks to all server admins that this isn't possible.

@Pureperversions: We had this discussion with Fair Player in the 762 forum and found a consense. You don't have to shot in there. Use your brain a littlebit to kill him and find a better position. You can still kill him the moment he exits the ABC line. I always ask myself how we manage to play the game on 762 ::)
People don't have the fun to play the game in mind (for all layers), but only a fast and easy kill.

lol. first you complain that the game isn't played as it is "intended", then you proceed to complain that devs have designed it wrong.

I haven't complained that the game isn't played as "intented". I have complained how it is intented and that's a difference - is it intended to frustrate you or should it be fun?  ::). The way as the devs intented it, doesn't work in some cases. Thatswhy there are server rules. And The German mainbase on St. Vith is clearly designed wrong. What's wrong about to say something like this? There is always room for feedback and improvements. Thatswhy we are here. I find it kinda funny how some people react to negative critics ::)

@Ajappat: please do make a post to improve the cover of the mainbases. This would affect all servers in  a positive way and you are a beta tester and server admin. Finaly someone with a constructive suggestion.  ;)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Slayer on 30-07-2012, 20:07:20
...whatever the 762 haters in here say about situations that occured years ago.
Hi, I'll just assume you don't read what others post. But please read this, it was meant for you:
Also, you turn this into a 762 vs hslan topic, pls don't do that. I really appreciate it that
Odium posts this thread here, and now you read stuff which you dislike, you troll? Of course you know that some people will jump on your post like that, so pls refrain from posts like that.
If you like flamewars, or "shitstorms" as you call them, open your own forum and go ahead.

lol. first you complain that the game isn't played as it is "intended", then you proceed to complain that devs have designed it wrong.
Thank god it is saved by admins! LOL

And they would be happy to have no vehicles to fight. I dont belief this situation. I dont belief that players are happy to be cannon fodder.

If this is no problem for you, you can join again and again at my position or flag and i will kill you again and again. I would be happy to get this chance, but i think you would not be happy to end the round with maybe a k/d with 0/75. Or did you?
Oh yeah, because the goal of FH2 is to have a good k/d ratio  ::)

And "no vehicles" is rubbish. Mainbases are equipped with guns, you know. Use them. You obviously never played on a server without this rule, right? Since in daily practice, it next to never happens.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: ajappat on 30-07-2012, 21:07:20
And they would be happy to have no vehicles to fight. I dont belief this situation. I dont belief that players are happy to be cannon fodder.

Planes have had their freedom to attack mainbases as they will on hslan, from the release of this mod (2007 ??? ::)). I barely ever see someone whining about it on chat. Most likely because even though they are free to attack base, most pilots know they are needed elsewhere on battlefield, so attacks on mainbase are not constant.

@Shitmaker: I will do i, but it takes some times to go through all maps.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Zoologic on 31-07-2012, 05:07:00
The ban of sheik nevertheless, I agree on the sense that he swore a couple of times. If it is already stated in 762 as an effective rule (at the time he played), then the admin has full rights to enforce it and explain Sheik's position, regardless of what he thinks about the rule.


Now, about the rule itself:

I guess people who get killed repeatedly at their mainbase have completely forgotten about smokes. I smoked a lot of places (esp. spawn points, which people seems to memorize), and it is effective. Artillery will still rain down their shells at your position, but snipers and sniping tankers from outside ABC lines won't be much of a problem anymore. Enforce the rules, people will get into argument and get less creative.

Well, in Counter-Strike (another game, yes... the game that you play, not role-play), sometimes I joined in a raped and fucked-up team for the entire map. In some of the rounds, we got based raped, I experienced this a lot as a terrorist team in the classic de_dust. Being a cannon fodder? Because somebody has got to do it. If you want a proof of real skills, please never look at stats, join a tournament and see real skills there. Idiots pay attention too much on K/D stats and ranks, some players just needs to grow real penis up and stop looking at their e-penis.

Statwhores? Statwhores will complain a lot in that situation, since the server is ranked, their awards will be ruined, and their chance to join a glory-seeking "l33t" clans will fade away. K/D ratios will go down because we are constantly losing, despite managing to score more kills.

So who argued that this rule of "don't attack uncap" prevents statwhores? That's is like completely the opposite. This rule will surely protect statwhores, save their K/D ratios by preventing their death at the hands of encircled back-capping rambos.

It is up to the caretakers of 762 though... they know their players and they know what they want. But if you ask for our opinions, we gave what you asked. Thank you guys.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 31-07-2012, 08:07:36
@Slayer,

no, it is not the goal to have a good k/d, its to help your team and mostly have fun with the game and your teammates.

@ajappat,

as i told you, i know maybe 3 good planefighters who could destroy every stationary wapon without a chance to kill them. And after this they are destroying the vehicles. If you have ghot these 3 players in 1 team, you have got no chance to leave your base.  I remember 1 fight, one of them had a k/d of 128/0, and he is no cheater.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: ajappat on 31-07-2012, 09:07:45
@ajappat,

as i told you, i know maybe 3 good planefighters who could destroy every stationary wapon without a chance to kill them. And after this they are destroying the vehicles. If you have ghot these 3 players in 1 team, you have got no chance to leave your base.  I remember 1 fight, one of them had a k/d of 128/0, and he is no cheater.
But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: LuckyOne on 31-07-2012, 09:07:17
But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.

Exactly, and since it's main, there is always someone nearby to gun down those pesky planes. Flying into mainbase is looking for trouble, except on a few maps that lack proper defenses.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 31-07-2012, 13:07:39
But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.

Exactly, and since it's main, there is always someone nearby to gun down those pesky planes. Flying into mainbase is looking for trouble, except on a few maps that lack proper defenses.

As much as I would like to see this rule removed too on 762 and allow planes to attack everthing, than more I have to agree witch Knallkopp on the fact that we have players who use the planes whenever possible anyway. Stationary weapons are not quiet effective in FH2, as the good players know where they are. With players like Unique the 88 and Paks at Op. Goodwood get totaly useless. The same affacts the AA guns in mainbases. If we get more mobile AA on the maps I could agree with you - but currently the few stationary AA guns get smashed by the pilots anyway.

@Zoologic: I guess, that most people here who argue for the Anti baserape rule, know how to use smoke. The big problem is, that you won't be able to select your smoke and finaly use it, if I catch you up with my team in your mainbase. I can kill people the second they spawn on many maps if not all - there are nice little "clitches", trust me. We had locked the german players into their base on St.Vith and could have easily killed everything that moves right after spawning in a match some days ago. The german players just got frustrated and asked the admins to skip the map. Sidi Bou has the same problem. Once the American team is cought in the base you haven't a single chance to get out. Firing into the base - no problem.

That is a problem that many maps suffer from atm. There is only one base and the way out of the base is too narrow and too open without enough cover. Easy three examples are St. Vith, Sidi Bou, Villers, Totalize, Goodwood and Cobra. The above mentioned points are the reason, why the counter attack on Cobra doesn't work (besides the too weak german guns). The space on the maps is limited and that you can't see something doesn't mean that you can't shoot it. I would like to make an experiment and play on day without a single rule. I know how this will end  ;D
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 31-07-2012, 19:07:56
@ajappat,

as i told you, i know maybe 3 good planefighters who could destroy every stationary wapon without a chance to kill them. And after this they are destroying the vehicles. If you have ghot these 3 players in 1 team, you have got no chance to leave your base.  I remember 1 fight, one of them had a k/d of 128/0, and he is no cheater.
But rules and maps can't be designed with fear, that 3 players out of some 10000 (or something) could end up in same team.

Seriously, I have played for years and years on server with planes allowed to attack bases and it is not problem.

These 3 Players i talked about are friends of me and i was in their clan. There are many more in BF2 world i think. And clanmates mostly want to play together.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Slayer on 31-07-2012, 22:07:11
@Slayer,

no, it is not the goal to have a good k/d, its to help your team and mostly have fun with the game and your teammates.
Ah, OK, so we agree on what the goal of FH2 is? Then why bring up k/d ratios in your argument?
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Dukat on 01-08-2012, 02:08:02


We introduced the rule against attacking crossed out flags on 762 after SEVERAL requests by players and admins of 762 (on a personal note it was NOT my idea) to achieve 2 things:

A) reduce spawnraping for score.
B) make the maps play out as intended by the Devs.
(by gently forcing players onto the paths of the flag succession devised by the Developers).

Seen as now, the rule seems to cause more problems than it solves.

- Players and sometimes even admins don't get when flags switch because they don't check the map.
- Admins are confused because they do not know when exactly to kick for attacking uncaps - which always has to be a matter of personal decision.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Make a rule against spawn raping instead of a rule against attacking red crossed flags.

solves A) and B).

Violation would be if somebody is camping a spawn point of the enemy for the solely purpose of spawnraping enemies without any attempt to actually take a flag. Thus they should not camp a single spawnpoint longer then 3 spawnwaves.

That was a rule once applied to the WOLF Forgotten Hope 1 server for many years, and it helped out sorting the spawnrapers. It gave admin an instrument to punish those that were going up into the attic of a barn where all the enemies would spawn and mow them down with a MG42 right away when spawning.

If somebody would go to a red crossed flag in FH2 and camp an uncappable flag area, killing enemies that spawn for several waves, without moving or capping the flag, you could punish him for spawnraping. Which, of course is always at descretion of the dealing admin.

But the current rules creates confusion, especially when the flags turn and fall quickly without warning. In the end it is enough tactical punishment for teams attacking uncap flags by doing so. It draws manpower from the real hotspots to areas where their harm is less. They are being bypassed and excluded from the real action.

But people will only have to learn to consider their tactical situation properly. They can do that.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 01-08-2012, 03:08:51
 Wow !!!
 I deserve 6 pages of argument about Odium being full of shit. this makes me feel very special, BTW Screw you Odium for making false accusation (put that in your translator and smoke it)

 Map was Falaise 64, playing as a German for the first time since patch 2.45

 I did say bullshit to Odium but only in response to him making false accusations against me on the 762 server. of note: this happened in a private squad only after I publicly chatted in response to several others publicly complaining about Odiums apparently self created rules.

 The rules as stated on 762 server load screen say to not attack uncap or abc lines

 So anyways, I said in public chat that  :Dumb rules are dumb rules:  when he publicly chastised a number of other people for attacking the german team on Falaise pocket 64

 After my one and only posting, Odium (never heard of him before) invited me to a private squad and started to yell at me in German.

 In Squad chat I wrote  :nein sprechen Deutsche:, so he then switched to crappy english and kept yelling at me in heavily accented and not easily understood English accusing me of breaking rules (which i did not as I was only on the server for about 5-10 minutes tops and i was playing on his team).

 i told him he was telling bullshit over my microphone, which apparently made him madder, so he started off on some thing about how he makes the rules and it is up to him to decide. he was cursing in german and not making himself clearly understandable.

 i said only to him once more that his accusation was bullshit, then quit his private squad and joined the other team. The sides were balanced so i was not causing an imbalance. I just wanted to play on a Saturday night instead of get yelled at by some Jerry who was up past his bedtime. This occurred around 830pm Pacific (2030 PST)


 All of a sudden, I see a massive green text saying something in German (!B sheik  spielacheren auf HSlan)

and then i read a PB message saying i was kicked for unnecessary teamkilling

 
 I can deal with being punished for something that I actually did wrong but getting banned by some teenager because he doesnt speak or understand English correctly is very heavy handed and reflects very poorly of his server community. I like 762, have thousands of hours on it since the server popped up but if Odium is any reflection of the administration of said server, i will never darken that servers doors again.
 


 Seeing that the Fh2 community is marginal at best, I must unfortunately say goodbye to the community at large. With less than a handful of occupied server to choose from I will continue to patronize HSlan and WaW but seeing they are not always occupied, I will infortunately not be around to have as much fun with this game as I used to.

 Sheikyerbouti bids a fond adieu, farewell, auf wiedersehen, Goodbye...

 Goodbye...

 Goodbye...

 Goodbye...

 (please imagine lyrics as being sung by a bunch of overly cheery, plump kids being raised by a nanny in Switzerland)

p.s. is it wrong to still have a crush on such a beautiful actress in such a shitty movie
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 01-08-2012, 05:08:47
 This debate is getting good....



(http://rwrant.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/khan.jpeg)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Zoologic on 01-08-2012, 05:08:11
Finally  :D

So Sheik, are you attacking uncaps or not? What were you doing then?

LOL, you make it sounds very very bad.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Lainer on 01-08-2012, 08:08:30
  Ahh finally!  After checking this retarded thread about a dozen times and wasting valuable minutes of my life that I will never get back...PAYDAY!
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Knallkopp_02 on 01-08-2012, 08:08:41
@Slayer,

no, it is not the goal to have a good k/d, its to help your team and mostly have fun with the game and your teammates.
Ah, OK, so we agree on what the goal of FH2 is? Then why bring up k/d ratios in your argument?

It is only an example in witch way player can turn a good game into a bad one if the player is attacking spawnpoints, mainbases, destroy all assets in main... if there are no rules to stop this. For his team it is good, but for the other one it is bad. I think everyone wants to have fun with the game. But with such players it cant be good in my opinion. One team has got all assets, the other not because of permanant bombing the assets into heaven.

@sheikyerbouti

-> and then i read a PB message saying i was kicked for unnecessary teamkilling

this is the standart text from PB. This text would be shown by default.


Regards

Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: :| Hi on 01-08-2012, 08:08:40
On the rule of planes, I too have been playing since 2009, and never have we had a problem with planes attacking uncaps, or camping of uncaps.

I have devoted many hours to WOLF, WaW (Public), and ocassionally HSLAN, and never have I seen a problem with it.

If it happens, people adapt. Smoke gets thrown, people set up MGs and gun down planes (Believe me, its happened and quite efficiently at that) others fan out and go around killing the campers and then head out for the flag.


For instance, Operation Totalize. Brits/Canucks/What have you, generally get pushed back to their main.

The 109s/190s (w/e they are now) will strafe the allied main, but are often too busy avoiding AA from: AA gun, M4 turrets, LMGs, Pickup MGs), not to mention the planes that spawn in and manage to take off.

Another factor to take into account is personal code of those people, I have only seen a handful of pilots camp the mains, and even then they will stop after a few runs because the rest of the team gets bored.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 01-08-2012, 15:08:24
Okay, let me start this slow. Thank you for the civilised reply.
This 6 pages are not about you or me being "full of shit". It's about a pracitability of rules.
But I did not expect you to read and try to understand even the first post. Please try again.

A) "it is not in our rules not to attack crossed out flags right now. Odium lies!" Hmm..let's see:

(http://www7.pic-upload.de/01.08.12/8f7cn28wq567.jpg) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-15394816/COF.jpg.html)

B) Sure it was on Falaise. Where else?

C) There is a difference in between yelling and telling forcefully. People in my teamspeak at that time can tell. When I would yell at you to insult you, I'd make sure you understood my insults. If. So no swearing in german. But I guess the stereotype of the angry german kid is just so good, it has to be used over and over. Even where it does not fit.

D) I am sorry for not recognizing you speaking English only. I switched as soon as I did.

E) Sorry for my crappy English enounciation, dear friend.
I have been trying to improve it for 14 years now. I will work on that.

F) It is not my problem you are not able to listen to an explanaition that you yourself asked for 2 minutes ago. It would have taken you about 30 seconds. If your attention can't be held for that long without exclaiming "Bullshit, Bullshit" like a 3-year-old immune to arguments, I am dearly sorry for you.

G) Mathematics might not be your strong side, but seriously, "thousands of hours on it" does not equal 60 hours of playing on 762. It just does not. Your played time on 762:
http://www.762-ranking.de/fh2stats/?page=playerstats&pid=30589777&ln=en&l=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all readers BUT sheikyerbouti: thanks for discussing this, please keep voting, this thread indeed is about the crossed out flags rule on 762. We are quite sure that we would like to keep the rule against attacking mainbases and ABC lines at the moment.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: hitm4k3r on 01-08-2012, 18:08:12
Nice story sheik.

But sadly only half of the truth. Odiums english isn't that bad, my is worse. But we atleast try to communicate and most people can understand us. Btw, what does this have to do with my age?

Your rage post doesn't seem more mature, my friend.  ;)
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE on 01-08-2012, 19:08:08
Your rules are just fine, as long as they are enforced properly. The only issue I have ever had on 762 is when a an admin of theirs tk'd a guy for a SdKfz 222   on olympus.    I mean really  a sdkfz22 is worthy of a tk?   ;D

and also my 200 ping on the server,  its a good thing smines aren't affected by ping!
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 01-08-2012, 19:08:16
Give me a name, I would like to check that, that is nothing I would tolerate in my team!
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: FORGOTTENKEVINOHOPE on 01-08-2012, 19:08:54
Give me a name, I would like to check that, that is nothing I would tolerate in my team!

Been a few months.

I think I made a post on your forums right when it happened, but my screen shot failed to take so it was a non issue!  No worries!

Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 04-08-2012, 17:08:52
If you would like to vote, please remember the threads will be closed this Sunday evening, that means here and on www.bf2awards.de.

We would like to know your opinion! Thanks!
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: WinstonTheRipper on 04-08-2012, 18:08:28
Not a big fan of this crossed out flag rule. On several maps it prevents flanking of objectives because of way the map is set up, as you have to enter the edges, or center of flag area in some cases. Many skirmishes occur if you try to flank and, of course, you aren't allowed to "attack" the crossed out area so it's not allowed.

One instance stuck out in my mind quit vividly. I was playing on the St. Vith in the server a few days ago as German. As we were attacking the train station flag, my squad began taking sniper fire from church building. With his elevated position, he was protected from ground fire, so I flanked him planning on tossing a grenade into the window. I got shot while doing so by the sniper in question, and he immediately began spamming "ADMIN ADMIN, WINSTON IS ATTACKING ME AT UNCAP!!!!!"  My response was fairly straight forward. (Do you really expect me not to flank a sniper that is gunning down my teammates?) I was warned with a ban and I stopped talking. We had to wait until all the flags were capped before we finally killed the sniper.


If I can't attack someone at uncap, why can he shoot me FROM uncap? Seems like this rule cuts out a lot of the tactics and simply irritates a majority of the players. When I began to contest this rule, every person (who I've never played with before) in my 6 man squad began telling me it was a stupid rule and not to debate it. I understand that in some situations, the rule can help. Nobody likes it when sizable chunks of the team attack uncap areas, but, as I said before, these instances are rare and the negatives outweigh the positives.
Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: Watchtower1001 on 05-08-2012, 05:08:26
It is a very difficult rule to enforce and must be enforced at a Admins discretion on what is appropriate for a kick/ban.  If you are caught behind the lines as a flag is captured,  that is a difficult scenario and would not be appropriate to act. 

But you can't always tell, and no one wants to type and ask, and you're not guaranteed to get the truth, nor will it appease everyone anyways.

As an Admin I say remove.  Too difficult to enforce.  And this is also Battlefield.  Nuff said.  It's Battlefield.  Attacking an uncap can slow an advance down and distract the enemy team.  They can't recap, so if they choose to waste their time in a back area, by all means, let that player have their type of fun.

You can't steal enemy tanks in this game, so, damage done by players in back areas is minimal to that in BF42 for an example.

Warfare is not a gentlemen's game.

----------------------

I've also mentioned to "the powers that be" to act to remove the 'do not attack main via Planes unless at fixed defensive positions only" rule.

Air attacks should be allowed at enemy main bases, indiscriminately, because the maps usually contain several AA defensive weapons and teams should be guarding their main bases, and generally both teams will have planes if there are planes at all.

Furthermore it is too difficult to admin some type of attacks versus, none at all, or indiscriminate attacks.

 All or nothing, I say.  And if it's one or the other, I say allow.



 

Title: Re: Rule against attacking crossed flags on 762 Servers / Ban of sheikyerbouti
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 06-08-2012, 01:08:42
Thanks for voting and discussing this! From tomorrow morning, on servers 762#1 - #3 we will play without the crossed flags rule! This trial test will last until September 3rd.

The change of rules will be displayed in the loading screen of the servers.
Please keep in mind that the ABC lines and crossed out mainbases remain no-go / no-fire-into areas!

For feedback, please use the thread here:
http://www.762-ranking.de/forum/showthread.php?454-Removal-of-the-crossed-flags-rule-Feedback-thread!

Moderators: Please lock this thread, since it has well served its purpose. Thanks!