Author Topic: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]  (Read 250186 times)

Offline Hauggy

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2235 on: 01-07-2015, 23:07:21 »
I assume all you know from Russian history comes from Hollywood lol

Enemy at the gates has cool special effects but everything is BS in this story exept that the Germans did invaded Russia and fought at Stalingrad, if you want to read something good try Anthony Beevor's book about the battle.

COH really makes the russian look worse than nazis...

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2236 on: 01-07-2015, 23:07:41 »
Well nobody is going to argue the for the merits of Stalinism on this forum ;) the problem with the CoH campaign is not that it criticised the Soviet Union, but the stupid way in which it did it. Basically the game was about a Soviet soldier who at every turn questioned the war, who was disillusioned with it. This works for a Vietnam flick maybe, where the war is a war of aggression fought for dubious goals, but in the case of the Soviet-German war, which was essentially defensive as well as a war for utter survival, this kind of narrative seems out of place. The game shows how the soldiers and civilian population are callously sacrificed, but, regardless of if this is based on historical fact or not, one has to ask wether they would have fared any better under German occupation.

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2237 on: 01-07-2015, 23:07:15 »
I assume all you know from Russian history comes from Hollywood lol

Enemy at the gates has cool special effects but everything is BS in this story exept that the Germans did invaded Russia and fought at Stalingrad, if you want to read something good try Anthony Beevor's book about the battle.

COH really makes the russian look worse than nazis...

They were the same, not worse, not better - the same... So, tell me what was wrong in the plot then? I haven't got through the full campaign yet, but I'm during the fighting in Stalingrad and so far I have no historical objections...

Offline Hauggy

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2238 on: 01-07-2015, 23:07:33 »
Ts4ever pretty much summed up my opinion.
Also the youtube video I posted above gives a more detailed explanation.
I'm not saying Stalin was a saint...lol

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2239 on: 02-07-2015, 00:07:18 »
Wow, what setting is responsible for turning on possibility of burning civilians and friendly soldiers?!  :o Or did they remove it later? Because I didn't notice this in my mission...

However, other things what this Russian cryboy teenage is saying is complete bullshit... Yes, Russians used Scorched Earth tactic when they were retreating, so they burn houses (not sure if there were civilians inside though)... Yes, the Stalin's order no. 227 was true... I don't know if there was already harsh winter in October, but I know the fact that winter 1941 was the coldest in 1941, so maybe... So, yes, winter stopped German advance in 1941 - it was even mention in RUSSIAN historical series on History channel...

And yes, Russians killed Polish soldiers of Polish Home Army, but I can forgive this, becuase this Russian teenage hasn't been taught about that in school...  ::)

 

Offline Wulfburk

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2240 on: 02-07-2015, 01:07:06 »
"history" channel

Winter affects both sides. You prepare for it or not. If you dont, your fault. If the other prepares better, his gain. Russian scorched earth tactic was done by the civilians as well, they withdrawed east alongside the army. Dont think there were any burning of russian civilians in any houses by the troops while they retreated...

Fact is all the "you retreat we comissars shoot all of you" is another of the red army myths. Russians of course didnt treat any desertors highly, and a lot were shot probably, but  nor did the germans and the british and the americans :P. The other red army myth is "winter won the war" You get that with Napoleon too. Must suck to be russian.

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2241 on: 02-07-2015, 01:07:11 »
So why German army suddendly stuck in winter 1941 at Moscow outskirts after outstanding Blitzkrieg?  ???

Offline Wulfburk

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2242 on: 02-07-2015, 01:07:19 »
Because of the russian resistance DURING the winter? If it was like you think, once the winter was gone (cause, you know, a season lasts 3 months) the germans would have steamrolled the russians.

What happened?

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2243 on: 02-07-2015, 01:07:12 »
Yeah, the strongest winter in USSR of XX century lasts only 3 months... Yeah, surely... Russians pushed them back during winter, but when the summer came Germans counter-attacked. It was very specific for this front that summers belonged to Germans and winters to Russians - interesting why... Obviously, Germans never reached so close to Moscow, because of different tactics in the next year - focusing more on south - Caucasus and Stalingrad offensive...

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2244 on: 02-07-2015, 03:07:35 »
Oh the lack of any actual knowledge here is amusing. There are several reasons for the German defeat at Moscow 1941:

- Bad German preparations for winter conditions and the mud season
- High German losses in the summer battles after the invasion: Most of the divisions involved were down to skeleton crews, whole regiments sometimes the size of reinforced companies.
- Russian railroads had a different size than German ones, meaning the Germans had to rely on the road network to get supplies to the front. The mud season, lacking motorization and beginning partisan interference made this almost impossible.
- The German army was overstretched due to the gigantic length of the frontline, making it hard to concentrate strong forces for an offensive.
- The non-aggression pact with Japan allowed the Russians to shift several elite Siberian divisions to the European front, reinforcing the Moscow sector and forcing back the Germans. These divisions were also well equipped to fight in winter.

So stop talking about stuff you don't know about and go back to posting game screenshots.
« Last Edit: 02-07-2015, 03:07:51 by Ts4EVER »

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2245 on: 02-07-2015, 12:07:33 »
Well you just confirmed my point of view that major impact on German defeat in Operation Taifun was winter with several points:

Oh the lack of any actual knowledge here is amusing. There are several reasons for the German defeat at Moscow 1941:

- Bad German preparations for winter conditions and the mud seasonon
- The non-aggression pact with Japan allowed the Russians to shift several elite Siberian divisions to the European front, reinforcing the Moscow sector and forcing back the Germans. These divisions were also well equipped to fight in winter.

Other mentioned things were less important IMO. Polish resistance were keep destroying railroads all the time during the war. I would say that not lack of soldiers, but lack of veterans was more decisive. Anyway, Germans could afford later for big offensive operations like Fall Blau or Op. Zitadelle later...

Offline Hauggy

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2246 on: 02-07-2015, 13:07:21 »
The Rasputitsa appears in autumn so nope.

The whole point is it's the combination of all these factors that made the german defeat possible and not just winter so just give up already with your general winter :P

Offline Mudzin

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2247 on: 02-07-2015, 22:07:24 »
But it was the major factor...

Offline Slayer

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2248 on: 02-07-2015, 23:07:57 »
Well nobody is going to argue the for the merits of Stalinism on this forum ;) the problem with the CoH campaign is not that it criticised the Soviet Union, but the stupid way in which it did it. Basically the game was about a Soviet soldier who at every turn questioned the war, who was disillusioned with it. This works for a Vietnam flick maybe, where the war is a war of aggression fought for dubious goals, but in the case of the Soviet-German war, which was essentially defensive as well as a war for utter survival, this kind of narrative seems out of place. The game shows how the soldiers and civilian population are callously sacrificed, but, regardless of if this is based on historical fact or not, one has to ask wether they would have fared any better under German occupation.
This.

Although a film or a game might not be 100% historically accurate (I mean, CoH 1 wasn't historically accurate either, and even FH2 - which as you might know strives for historical accuracy - has some historical mistakes), that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy watching or playing it. I simply enjoy playing CoH2 as sometimes I just want to kill lots of Germans  ;D

Thanks for posting the YT link Hauggy, I had fun with the first few minutes, will finish it later. And although I don't think Mudzin is free of bias, he is right when he points out that this Russian guy is biased too, of course.

Funny, now that I think of it: almost every time someone accuses someone or something else from being biased, that person himself is biaed too (in this case: Relic - Russian guy - Mudzin - me, although I am not actually accusing here).

Oh the lack of any actual knowledge here is amusing. There are several reasons for the German defeat at Moscow 1941:

- Bad German preparations for winter conditions and the mud season
- High German losses in the summer battles after the invasion: Most of the divisions involved were down to skeleton crews, whole regiments sometimes the size of reinforced companies.
- Russian railroads had a different size than German ones, meaning the Germans had to rely on the road network to get supplies to the front. The mud season, lacking motorization and beginning partisan interference made this almost impossible.
- The German army was overstretched due to the gigantic length of the frontline, making it hard to concentrate strong forces for an offensive.
- The non-aggression pact with Japan allowed the Russians to shift several elite Siberian divisions to the European front, reinforcing the Moscow sector and forcing back the Germans. These divisions were also well equipped to fight in winter.

So stop talking about stuff you don't know about and go back to posting game screenshots.
And weren't some Panzer units being sent southwards because they were needed there more pressingly according to Hitler?

Offline Hauggy

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Re: Screenshots of games you play [big pics, 56k warning]
« Reply #2249 on: 03-07-2015, 00:07:35 »
Thanks for posting the YT link Hauggy, I had fun with the first few minutes, will finish it later. And although I don't think Mudzin is free of bias, he is right when he points out that this Russian guy is biased too, of course.

You are welcome sir ! Indeed maybe his vision is a bit biased by patriotism but he is still pretty relevant and funny imo.
I won't blame you for playing COH, personally it's just not my type of game if you're having fun playing this, so be it. :)