Does the high recoil of SMGs make shooting with them unpleasant and ineffective?

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Author Topic: 15 ideas for improving FX2 after patch 2.64  (Read 462 times)

Offline Pa3ym2

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15 ideas for improving FX2 after patch 2.64
« on: 26-01-2024, 16:01:21 »
Hello dear FX2 developers. I downloaded update 2.64 for FH2. I will write my impressions about the update, and I will write how it would be best to develop and improve the mod for the influx of players.
In some places the translation may not be completely accurate because I translate through Google translator.
1) The update introduced the “peek around the corner” function and the ability to shoot without stopping aiming from the front sight. These two improvements strengthened rifles more than submachine guns, because in order to kill an infantryman with a rifle at a distance of 50-70m, you need to look out from behind cover for 0.3-0.5 seconds and shoot. And in order to kill with a submachine gun, you need to look out and shoot with a submachine gun for 3-4 seconds, this exposes the fighter to return fire for much longer. When a fighter with a rifle collides with a fighter with a submachine gun in urban combat, there is a greater chance that the fighter with a rifle will kill the fighter with a submachine gun from around the corner because he needs less time to shoot. Although in real life it's the other way around.
Rifles have been strengthened, and submachine guns still have the same high recoil as before. The conclusion naturally suggests itself that in order to equalize their capabilities, submachine guns need to greatly reduce recoil.
In addition, one of the serious reasons why there is no significant influx of new players in the fashion is that all automatic weapons are unpleasant and ineffective to shoot due to high recoil. This is confirmed by a survey among the Russian-speaking audience of the game https://vk.com/forgottenhope?w=poll-14079341_919808361
Even in other games like PUBG, players complain that due to the high recoil of submachine guns like the Thompson, shooting from them is very unpleasant and ineffective 4:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPsECMi5T8c
I remember how in 2009, in version FH2 2.0, the recoil of submachine guns was extremely low. I think in order for an influx of new players to join the mod, it is necessary to reduce the recoil of all submachine guns, if not to the level of version 2.0, then at least close to this level.
Reduce the recoil to the level until the submachine guns become simply pleasant to shoot.
If you do not want to reduce the recoil of submachine guns, then at least remove the bug with excessive recoil of the first bullet in each burst of submachine guns. This bug greatly interferes with shooting short targeted bursts of 2-3 rounds at “long” distances for submachine guns.
As a balancing minus for submachine guns, it could be done so that every third shot of all submachine guns would be a tracer. This will warn that they are shooting from a submachine gun ahead and unmask the shooter’s position if he is sitting on the defensive with it.
If you are afraid that after a large reduction in recoil, submachine guns with a large magazine like the Soviet PPSh, Finnish Suomi, and American 50-round Thompson will become too powerful weapons, then you can add overheating mechanics to these submachine guns like the MG-42 and MG- machine guns. 34.

Until you significantly reduce the recoil of all automatic weapons, you will not have a significant influx of new players. If for another 10 years you add various balance changes, but leave the recoil of submachine guns as it is now, then for another 10 years you will have the same small influx of new players as there has been for the last 10 years.

2) The defense of a section of terrain in the Second World War from an attack by attacking infantry without armored vehicles largely depended on the presence of a machine gun on the part of the defenders. Russian writer and weapons expert Andrei Ulanov gave an example of how Soviet soldiers in 1941 converted their Tokarev self-loading rifles into automatic versions of these rifles. They did this because firing bursts of automatic rifles at the advancing Germans had a lot of moral and psychological impact on them: seeing that the machine guns were not suppressed, the attack of the German infantry systematically rolled back 9:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= 3hWhuYjWErY&t

In FH2, relying on machine guns for defense is largely impossible due to the fact that machine guns cannot be fired while standing, or from a window, from the edge of a trench, behind a large stone, or behind a bag of sand. It would be possible to make it so that all machine guns could be fired while standing and give the shooting mode in this mode normal accuracy. This will lead to the fact that the defense will largely begin to rely on machine guns. In real combat, the countermeasure against a machine gunner in World War II was a sniper or mortar. If we introduced the ability for machine guns to shoot while standing with normal accuracy, then we could introduce a sniper into the weapon selection menu as a countermeasure against increased machine gunners.
Of course, the reinforcement of the machine gunner must be balanced by the disadvantages corresponding to reality:

a) A fighter with a machine gun should move 20-25% slower because he has the heaviest equipment. The same could be done to a fighter with an anti-tank weapon.
b) I saw how the Russian blogger Taganay tried to shoot with a Degtyarev machine gun in a standing position and aiming from the front sight. He succeeded, but he said that his hands get tired very quickly 6:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPy9iGwnvXA It would be possible to return the stamina bar that was in the early versions of FX2, and make it so that when When aiming from the front sight in a standing position, machine gunners with a lighter machine gun began to run out of stamina.
C) You made it so that the MG42 and MG34 machine guns now have tracer cartridges, the same can be done with all machine guns in the game. This will warn that they are firing from a machine gun ahead and unmask the shooter’s position if he is sitting on the defensive with him. Measures to introduce tracer cartridges may not look realistic and do not correspond to reality. But here you have to sacrifice a little realism in exchange for balance.

D) For a fighter with a machine gun, introduce a slower speed of turning the camera left and right than everyone else. This would make him turn slower in urban combat and would receive a bullet from the enemy sooner than he would have time to shoot at an enemy who, for example, ran into a house from behind.

If all this is not enough to prevent the machine guns from being too strong, then you can make thinner aiming bars in the sighting reticles of all sniper rifles so that they can be used to shoot more accurately at machine gunners, and add more zoom magnification in the optics of sniper rifles. If this is not enough, then you can slightly increase the zoom ratio for conventional rifles when shooting from the front sight.

3) Airplanes still haven’t introduced a bomb consumption button from 2 to 1 per use. Although the survey shows that such a button is very necessary https://vk.com/forgottenhope?w=wall-14079341_18041%2Fall If it is impossible to make such a button, then you can make bombs drop 1 bomb at a time and not 2 at a time, as for example with Junkers -87 or Beatfighter. This would further enhance the use of aircraft against tanks. If this strengthens the aircraft too much, then on maps where aviation has become too strong against tanks, you can add more anti-aircraft machine guns to the tanks on the roof of the tank turret.

4) In 2021-2022, on this forum, the developers wrote to me that it was impossible to introduce the function to peek around the corner, and it was impossible to introduce continuous shooting from the front sight of a rifle. Now in version 2.64 you have introduced this.
Is it possible to make it so that you can shoot from a rifle and hit from its bayonet in the same mode? If this is done, then in urban combat conditions rifles will be much more effective than submachine guns. In contrast, it will be possible to make the recoil of submachine guns even lower.
I’ll also note that it looks unrealistic that you can reload weapons while sprinting. If we removed the ability to reload weapons while sprinting and added the ability to bayonet while sprinting, this would make rifles with bayonets stronger in relation to submachine guns and all other weapons. Imagine that a fighter with a submachine gun and a rifle, which are located at a distance of 3-4 meters, simultaneously runs out of cartridges in the magazine, they simultaneously begin reloading, but cannot sprint because it is impossible to reload the weapon during a sprint. In this case, the fighter with the rifle, instead of reloading, could sprint and hit the enemy with a bayonet.

5) It seems to me that the grenade throw range is a little insufficient. If you are looking for a way to increase the effectiveness of grenades, then in addition to increasing the low throw range of a grenade, you can add more effective mechanics for using them: when you hold down the fire button, the grenade starts counting down 5 seconds until the explosion, but if the player does not release the mouse button, the grenade is not thrown, but The countdown of its explosion is still being carried out. That is, the player continues to hold the cocked grenade in his hands as long as he needs, after which he releases the mouse button when he needs, and the grenade lands on the ground at the moment of the explosion. Thus, he can hold a grenade in his hands for 2 seconds, after which the grenade flies for 3 seconds in flight, and explodes at the moment of landing. If the player does not throw a grenade after 5 seconds, then either it explodes in his hands, or it explodes when he decides to throw it. This way you can make grenades more effective, not only anti-personnel, but also anti-tank. If you do this, then a “kamikaze” element will appear in firefights when players who have run out of ammo will often use the last grenade to blow up as many enemies as possible in close proximity.
Also, in some cases, it would be possible to damage planes, like in the movie “The Long Engagement” 2:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuF1AN-ugM0

6) If you peek around the corner and start reloading your weapon, the peeking mode is interrupted. Because of this, you often have to turn it on again after recharging. In conditions where to turn it on you need to hold down the button left or right, this sometimes leads to the player accidentally going out of the corner a little and exposing himself to bullets. It would be correct if reloading the weapon did not interrupt the mode of peeking around the corner.

7) On maps El Alamein 16 and 64, when playing with bots, a bug appeared: when most of the flags of one of the sides are captured, points (tickets) begin to run out at a speed 10 times faster than before, and they run out for both sides, including the one who captured more flags. After I downloaded some second update on January 26, this bug did not disappear.

8) There is a pack of levels for playing with SMP-gaming bots. On the Battle of Britain maps 16 and 32, the maximum visibility range is 900 meters. Because of this, it has become much more convenient to use bombs and machine guns on airplanes. It became much easier for me to shoot from large-caliber aircraft machine guns at ground targets because with an increased visibility range, targets on the ground can be seen for a longer time. It became possible to use the anti-aircraft maneuver of the Junkers-87, like here (0:51) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzNRqqjU8OM
On the El Almein 64 map the visibility range is only 600 meters. I propose to make the visibility range on all maps where there are planes 900 meters. Or do this on most maps where there are planes. This will strengthen aviation and increase the pleasure and efficiency of its use. Will give aviation new maneuvers in the air. This will also increase the range of firefights on tanks and all armored vehicles in the game. I suggested this before, but I was told that this leads to players with weak computers starting to complain about falling FPS. Improve your computers. In order to play FX2 with a higher FPS, I myself bought a more powerful processor and motherboard in January 2023. It seems to me that the improvement and development of the game should not suffer due to the fact that some players have weak computers. And developers should not adapt to players with weak computers, who are in the minority.

9) Constantly pressing the crouch key and holding it is uncomfortable. It should be done so that for the crouch mode the key needs to be pressed once and not held down constantly.

10) Perhaps it would be correct to do so that the destroyed tank does not explode after 20 seconds, clearing the road, but remains for about 50-60 seconds, preventing other tanks from passing. This would make it possible, for example, to knock out a tank on a bridge and delay the enemy’s advance.

11) I heard the opinion that tanks in the game are too strong against infantry. If you are looking for a way to make armored vehicles more vulnerable, then when they receive damage, you can make it so that one of the crew members inside it dies. But this must be done only if the armor was broken and if damage was caused to at least 50% or 60% of the strength of the armored vehicle. So, after being hit by bullets from anti-tank rifles, armored vehicles will become more vulnerable, and the same will happen after being hit by shells.
If you are looking for a way to make armored vehicles even more vulnerable, then you can make it so that if the track is hit, it will break and the tank will not be able to move until the engineer repairs the track exactly in the place where it is torn. To do this, the engineer will have to get out of the tank and expose himself to fire.
I also heard that the Germans used tear gas cartridges when using their anti-tank rifles. Andrei Ulanov, who studied the reports of Soviet tank crews, says that after a couple of such hits it became impossible to stay inside the Soviet tank and the crew left it 6:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxwE4SgAb8g I heard that they seemed to try to do similar mechanics in FH2.

12) When you shoot from airplanes at the ground or at another airplane, you need maximum fire density. Some aircraft have two machine guns, a heavy and a small caliber, such as the spitfire. It is impossible to shoot from two machine guns at once.
I tried assigning the same button to both machine guns, but they conflict. It would be necessary to introduce some kind of separate button for firing from both machine guns in the control, or make it so that assigning two machine guns to the same button would work and not conflict.

13) In a network game, you can also play with bots, but the number of bots per German team can only be set to a maximum of 48. If you bet 200 bots, then 48 bots per German team may not be enough. It would be right if they increased the maximum number of bots in this menu for Germans to 100.

14) It seems to me that the mention in the “death chat” should be removed about what weapon is used to kill someone, or what armored vehicle is used because this largely deprives the team of the tactical advantage of surprise. For example, if I’m playing on a tank and in front of me at an enemy position in the city an allied tank drove by and was destroyed around the corner with a bazooka. Then, having read in the “death chat” that he was killed with a bazooka, I understand that there is an ambush of an infantryman with a bazooka around the corner, and I immediately prepare a fragmentation shell for him. This takes away the element of surprise from an ambush. Here are a few examples of how information from the “death chat” spoils tactical elements in the game:

Situation 2: our infantry team attacks an almost empty area of ​​the enemy’s defense, we move with a group of infantry, after which one of ours is killed by a bullet from a rifle. In reality, the infantrymen would not know that it was a sniper, and might think that it was just an infantryman somewhere in a trench. And we know because we read in the chat that he was killed by a sniper, so we immediately begin to inspect the most secluded surroundings of the enemy positions in search of a sniper.

Situation 3: Two infantry groups of 3 infantrymen move one after the other at a distance of approximately 100 meters. Suddenly the first group in front is killed. Based on what she was killed from, it becomes clear to us what to expect ahead. If it was a fighter not with a submachine gun, but with a machine gun, then we immediately understand that the machine gunner is sitting in front, and he is lying somewhere because he cannot stand. Then we prepare the grenades in advance.

Situation 4: weapons with silencers become practically useless in tactical terms because the sound suppression element is useless because you can read about the kill with it in the chat.

Situation 5: On large maps with the number 64, you can understand where the enemy’s artillery or aviation is located if you look at the map and see where allies are being killed from aviation or artillery.

To prevent such things from happening, it is necessary to make sure that in the “death chat” they write only information about who was killed and by whom, but do not write from what exactly and what weapons. Although it may be that, for example, you play with the same team and you know that the player under the nickname “tankman” on the opposite team always drives a tank because he does it better than anyone else on their team. Even from the fact that an ally was killed by a player with the nickname “tanker”, one can understand that there is a tank in this square of the map. Therefore, perhaps in the death chat it would be worth writing that only a certain player was killed, but without mentioning who killed him. It would also be interesting if they added registration of head hits in the death chat and wrote that the player was killed in the head, like in the shooter “Counter-Strike”.

15) There is no significant influx of players into the online game because, for example, I don’t know how to join it. In all shooters, you simply go into the online game settings, the list of servers is loaded, after which you select one from the list to join without registering user accounts or other additional manipulations. I can't create a user account in FH2. Every time I select different Emails or different names, the account is not created and it says that “such an account already exists” even if I specify a non-existent mailbox or a random set of numbers in the name.
For this reason, I don’t know how to join a network game and therefore I play more with bots. Judging by surveys among Russian speakers, most players also play with bots https://vk.com/forgottenhope?w=wall-14079341_18967%2Fall perhaps they only play with bots for the same reason.
If in order to play some game online with other players you need to do something more than just go to the game’s network settings and select the server you want to join (like in the old Battlefield 1942), then many new players will not play this game. Perhaps this is another reason why there is no influx of new players into FX2.

I ask the developers to write which of these points the developers are interested in, and which ones they can or will implement. Thanks in advance.

Offline Pa3ym2

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Re: 15 ideas for improving FX2 after patch 2.64
« Reply #1 on: 26-01-2024, 18:01:21 »
The developers told me that it is very difficult to change the game mode with bots because everything is coded there. At the same time, I often see that FH2 servers are empty.
If the bots were to fix a few of their biggest shortcomings, then when there is a shortage of live players, it would be possible to replace the missing players with bots. In this case, it would be possible to play FH2 every day, and not only when there are enough live players. This in itself would increase the influx of new players, because many newcomers are probably scared off by often empty servers.

In addition, many beginners are probably often scared off by the high level of realism and high skill requirements in the game, otherwise other live players who play with them complain about them. This problem could be solved if the disadvantages of playing with bots were removed. Then newcomers would be advised to play with bots first, and then go play with live players. This principle is used, for example, in DOTA 2. There, newcomers who have just arrived are advised to first play with bots, and then go play with live players, where the requirements for the “threshold of entry” into the game are much higher.

If you improve the quality of the game with bots, then the number of players playing FX2 will itself increase. And after playing with bots, at a certain moment they begin to want to start playing with live players, as I wanted at a certain moment. In this sense, in order to increase the number of players playing with live players, you must first increase the number of players playing with bots.
If the developers ever decide to change something in the game with bots, then just in case I will write a few of the biggest disadvantages when playing with bots:

a) They see and shoot through bushes and tree foliage. Because of this, it is impossible to play with them on maps with a lot of vegetation. I heard that "Battlefields 2: Project Reality" somehow made it so that bots cannot see through the smoke of smoke grenades.

b) They often get stuck in certain places on the map and do not go into battle. For example, on the map "Arad 16" part of the Soviet infantry is always stuck at the main Soviet base and does not go into battle. Even if you kill them all, some will still appear in the same places on the base and they will not go into battle. On the map "Kuril Islands" the Soviet infantry does not go to attack the last Japanese flag, even if I myself become the commander and give such an order to the entire Soviet infantry on the radio. This happens not only with infantry, but also with armored vehicles. Bots with armored vehicles get stuck on bridges on the map "Studenka 32", British tankers get stuck near the corners of houses on the map "Operation Aberdeen" on the main British base.

c) When there are 4-5 meters left to the bots, even if they still have cartridges in their weapons, for some reason they put away their weapons and take out a knife. If you lie down on the ground and take out a knife, then the bots very inaccurately hit with knives and bayonets at the enemy lying on the ground, and in this case a living player who often moves while lying on the ground can himself kill with a knife/bayonet a lot of bots who, for example, ran towards him to the Bunker or to the house he was defending. I killed several dozen bots this way. It is necessary that they do not take out the knife until they run out of cartridges in their weapons.

d) The big disadvantage when playing with bots is that you can only give them commands through the walkie-talkie. This deprives the player of the opportunity to take part in the battle himself. It is necessary that when playing with bots it would be possible to give orders to bots without a walkie-talkie.

e) After the bots throw an anti-tank explosive package at the tank, they begin to run away from it at maximum speed (sprint). But they run up to the tank as usual (without sprinting). It is necessary that when running up to the tank they run towards it at maximum speed (sprint), this will increase the danger of infantry against armored vehicles. I also noticed that lightly armored vehicles such as armored personnel carriers and light tanks receive little damage from anti-personnel grenades, but bots do not use them against lightly armored vehicles. It would be correct for the bots to use anti-personnel grenades against lightly armored vehicles.

f) It would be correct if, when receiving a radio command to “defend this position,” all the bots that gave this command occupied all the stationary guns and machine guns in this position. And if they were all occupied, then the rest went into the pillboxes, trenches, or approached the windows of the houses on it, with the exception of the machine gunners and soldiers with anti-tank rifles. Machine gunners with light machine guns and anti-tank rifles should not enter the trenches, because otherwise they will not be able to shoot from them while lying in the trench. Armored vehicles in defense should turn their foreheads in the direction from which the enemy might attack.
When given the command “attack this position,” the bots would gather in the largest possible group not far from the attacked position, wait for those lagging behind to gain the maximum number of group members, and when they gathered, they would attack this position at the same time so as not to be stretched across the terrain, and maintain maximum concentration at the moment of attack.

g) For some reason, bots using airplanes do not shoot at enemy airplanes with heavy machine guns. For example, in a beatfighter they don’t fire heavy machine guns at enemy planes, although they could shoot them down faster that way.

h) When defending 5 flags (bases) standing in a corridor order one after another, bots often appear not on the flag that is closest to the enemy, but on the flags behind. Because of this, the advanced flag has few defenders and is quickly captured. In defense, it is necessary that bots always appear on the flags closest to the enemy, with the exception of the number that is needed to occupy all the equipment.

i) It would be possible to add a script for shooting at an airplane for bots with light machine guns