Inefficiency of the 75mm/L48

[Paythoss]

Im was always waiting for  ocassion to post this mot 

[Butcher]

Don´t get my thread locked! Don´t get personal!

Edit: Look at Gotkais third screenshot and his description of the situation, where he shot that Sherman with a Panther and needed two hits for that. Neither range, nor the anglemod, nor the characteristics of the Sherman should end in two shots being needed to kill that thing. THAT is what I define as luck here. For me there is simply no explanation for this.

I looked at it. Yes, it sounds a bit odd, I have already said before in this thread that some stuff sounds buggy. But I want to come back on your "luck" thing once more: is a situation like that always two shots needed for the Panther or is it sometimes 1, sometimes 2 and sometimes maybe even more than two? I mean in similar situations, so equal angle, equal range, etc.

I´m fairly sure that I have one-shot-killed Shermans in a Panther frontally since 2.45. But under the same conditions (short range, hitting the same spot, no angle, same version of Sherman) I also needed two shots in some situations.

I fail to see a constant there.

[hitm4k3r]

Haha, Horst gettin' in rage

Though I would certainly take his feedback with care. He is a bit sick, you know and played quiet alot. So he knows what he is talking about for sure. But who am I, so that I have to tell you obvious things.

Yesterday on the 130 player server I got my hands on a Tiger just to test it since I haven't used it in 2.45 that much and I simply don't know what is wrong the KwK 36? If you ask me it is a joke now and it occurs quiet often that you need more than two shots on a simple Sherman, also from good angles and ranges. I don't know how often people bail the tanks or can manage to escape from a totaly deserved kill with the current system.

[Paythoss]

Ok , now seriously ... I really understand , that now Sherman is frontally 2s1k for 75 mm L/48 but in other hand , 75 mm L/70 should 1s1k in this same situation .
About immortal Cromwell ... In 2.4 , I was in Tiger II and that bastard survive direct hit right in to the front of turret from 10 m without even smoking ...  . Cromwell 2.45 can even deflect now side hits right in to the mudguard from almost any caliber . And not some long time ago , Im bombarded to death a StuG IV on Cobra from my 75 Sherman , selling him over 5 hits right in to front of superstructure from long distance ...

[hitm4k3r]

One advise: don't drive any StuG in 2.45. It gets penetrated fronatly by any allied tank from various ranges from the front - except the M8 and the Stuart. Better just stay away from Sherman 76 as they kill you with two shots, but you on the other hand will not be able to do the same and just will have to shit your pants

The sherman isn't even a 1S1K from the side with the PIV. I shot a Sherman yesterday from point blank at 100 metre and this shitty Sherman was just burning offering him the advantage to escape. Yeah, that's what I call interaction

And people who don't know about the problems of the Cromwell don't play the game often enough. Point

[Smiles]

You dont mean me right, at st. vith ? cause you were missing all of your shots in that occasion...

[hitm4k3r]

No I am refering to Etna Line yesterday.

Though I found it a bit interesting that you was able to 1S1K me. At this range I could never do the same with the PIV to the M4A3 at the same range and there aren't few allied tanks on the map let alone the room to flank. I saw your hull btw but a tree was blocking my sight. I hit that fucking tree like two times and then just wanted to give up this effort and try something else - you know the rest. Atm you just give your postion away if you fire at a Sherman with a PIV. You have to get so damn close, that it is getting more and more dangerous than anything else.

Either you hit my front side of the turret or a weakspot on the hull, dk

[Surfbird]

One advise: don't drive any StuG in 2.45. It gets penetrated fronatly by any allied tank from various ranges from the front - except the M8 and the Stuart. Better just stay away from Sherman 76 as they kill you with two shots, but you on the other hand will not be able to do the same and just will have to shit your pants

The sherman isn't even a 1S1K from the side with the PIV. I shot a Sherman yesterday from point blank at 100 metre and this shitty Sherman was just burning offering him the advantage to escape. Yeah, that's what I call interaction

And people who don't know about the problems of the Cromwell don't play the game often enough. Point

I have made different experineces with the Stug. I am not an experienced tank driver and therefore can just state what I experienced, I don't know how well what gun got to penetrate what. Similar to what Paythoss said, I bombarded a Stug on Viller Bocage with regular Cromwell though. Got ~10 hits on him but it seemed they all did not penetrate at all. Well, it was quite some distance and I hit the front/roof part. So I can not confirm that any tank destroys him with hits in the front.

Can confirm the weird Cromwell bounces though. I think it was the same game on Villers-Bocage when a Tiger suddenly appeared. I hit him first, which obviously did not a lot and drove then, with my side towards him, away. I thought that I am dead for sure, but the shot did only 3/4 damage and then Achilles showed up behind the Tiger and killed it.

I personally like when there is a small chance that you get out of a tank fight alive, because it can happen in theory, but it should not be the norm I guess. Just leaving some facts here, I don't really want to discuss this. Just note that it's a thin path between some lucky bounces that can happen for some reason and a bugged tanking system, I won't position my self on neither side, but I think the complains don't come out of nowhere, although people are kinda overreacting about this. Again, I don't drive tanks a lot, but other than some shots more than usual here and there, I am still okay with the system. There should at least be thought of fixes/optimizations though, since quite many people complain.

[hitm4k3r]

The StuG IV is down with two shots from the Sherman 76 to the front also on quiet far range. If you manage to get close enough to it you can even 1S1K him from the front. That is working quiet well and as I would expect it to be. The Sherman 75 with ABCBC ammunition same as the Cromwell need two shots from the front on close and midrange, on longer ranges up to three or four but thats more a problem on Totalize. The problem with the StuG is that it is quiet difficult to aim since the scales in FH2 aren't working properly on some tanks. Small example is the Jagdpanzer IV that is unplayable. On long range and fog range you have to aim under the target. What makes it even harder is the fact that the shots never hit the same spot.

With this in mind it is quiet easy to mortarize a StuG as mentioned above since it will need more time to reaim and land a well placed shot. Not to mention that the gun of the StuG is too weak.

Atm tanks too often only start burning also with point blank shots where shots would melt through like a hot knife through butter - on both axis and allied side. The Sherman is so damn resistant to any german gun - also the better ones - that it leads quiet often to ridiciolous situations.

[Flippy Warbear]

For 5hitm4k3er: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Quiet_vs_Quite

[hitm4k3r]

slayer how is it even possible that you talk about something where you obviously don't have any idea ?
You played 237h total, 50h in a tank and wan't to tell the really experienced guys how the game works?

you probably switched heads with your own dick to suggest that any beta tester know less about how the game works than any player basing your arguments only on award system statistics.

Then let me ask you one little question: who of you tested the current tank system and gave it the ready-to-get-released badge? The changes on Op Cobra are obsolete due to the badly balanced system. The allied side has more and better tanks, not to mention the air supperiority. Falais is one sided that it just doesn't make fun anymore. And I will not start with St. Vith once more. You have five or six allied tanks, one of them a 76 and one M10. Both can 1S1K the PIV with easy and deal quiet good damage on the Panther. The PIV is inferior to the M4A3 and there is not only one, not to mention the lack of engi kits and all those Zooks you have to deal with while tanking. It is simple math - if you don't have enough beta testers why don't recruit more? If you struggle to even fill a server, I don't have to wonder why some of the maps just don't work let alone other things like the bike, Pak or Shreck. Bardia doesn't work too because the view distance got increased. I could keep on giving more and more examples but that would lead too far off. As rude as Horst sounds - and I don't like it too - but he is damn right. And that you get insulting too Jan, doesn't lead anywhere.

Don't you test how the tanks react to the different guns, after some values got tweaked? Maybe a tank range test map would be good? 

Just asking ... 

Edit: Thx Flippy, I try my best 

[kingtiger1891]

If a rank is needed to qualify someone for giving suggestions on tanks,

there you go

http://awards.fh2.ifihada.com/player/301086504/

[Horstpetersens]

slayer how is it even possible that you talk about something where you obviously don't have any idea ?
You played 237h total, 50h in a tank and wan't to tell the really experienced guys how the game works?

you probably switched heads with your own dick to suggest that any beta tester know less about how the game works than any player basing your arguments only on award system statistics.

here in that thread was a beta tester who didn't even know that a p4 needed 2 shoots on a sherman front.
that tells me a lot.

normaly i dont' get personel, but i dont see any progress.i think enough people have posted enough examples. the answers is allways the same like: "the silent majorety thinks its good"
and i can't take it anymore.

personaly i don't drive tank anymore in 2.45. thats okay for me because i can fly, arty, aso
otherwise i would quit playing fh2
i want my skill to decide the fight not some arcadish bs.

how do u think about a m36 TD that perfectly aproaches to the side of an kingtiger and shoots him into the side.
kingtiger burning.
kingtiger turns to hitmarker and kills m36.

other example:
88 is shooting at the side of a sherman (degress don't matter. it would kill it anyway)
but it doesn't
sherman returns fire and kills 88.

then imo i think:
fuck this shit and quit playing.

[Lightning]

you probably switched heads with your own dick

Of you think this sort of comment is acceptable you're the one who has something wrong in his head.

Very disappointing seeing a comment like this from a beta tester. I always thought they got picked for being helpful members of the community. I guess not.

[Slayer]

Don't you test how the tanks react to the different guns, after some values got tweaked? Maybe a tank range test map would be good?

Like I said   Alittle more trust in the team. Yes, of course we did. We tested it for a very long time, like I said. And after all these tests, it was considered better than before. You disagree, I know, but although you say that you won't start about St Vith, you then write half a post about St Vith. Why? And why keep repeating the same stuff over and over? 

I think the "this tanking system sucks" group has posted enough examples. Now you guys have to wait and see if the devs will do something about it or not. Posting 200 examples instead of 50 isn't helping much, imo. Also, posting stuff like "f*ck this shit" isn't helping much. Same goes for switching certain bodyparts, btw.

About betastesting: for some reason you guys seem to think the beta tester team has 24/7 time to test every little detail through and through before every release. The harsh truth is: they don't. Please reread my post on it, then you also will understand why not every betatester knows every little detail about every aspect of the game (like how many shots which tank needs on which other tank from which angkle and distance). At least I hope so.