Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Off-Topic => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Dukat on 13-05-2010, 15:05:13
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It spills oil, and oil and even more oil. And still 50% of U.S. citizens support deep sea offshore drilling. Wait until the oil reaches the coast and ruins it all.
Until then, time for some fun:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html)
Drill, baby, drill!
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http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html
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This may be bad, but just take a look at the Canadian Oil Sand production, that makes this spill look like a silly little oil bottle being tipped over in the gulf.
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It spills oil, and oil and even more oil. And still 50% of U.S. citizens support deep sea offshore drilling. Wait until the oil reaches the coast and ruins it all. Until then, time for some fun: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html Drill, baby, drill!
Shit I never knew 11 peeps died on board. Sometimes, just sometimes, small moments of tradgedy break through the lolz wall I have set up and really make me stop and feel genuinly sorry for those people and the sense of loos they must leave behind for their familes.
omfg Winnie from the Wonder Years strips for Maxim (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/12/danica-mckellar-wonder-ye_n_573644.html) Friggin love the Huffigton post.
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So, the people want oil, but it can't come from there own sources because it might pollute their lands, but they also don't want to be dependant for it from other country's.
Sooooo... what would you do??
instead of a whole rant about it including the consumers, producers fault in this i will just say that i feel sorry for the wildlife that just wants to live and reproduce and now is in some toxic wasteland trying to hold on for dear life with no hope for improvements for many months to come and a recovery period that very easily could take over 50 years. And this while people complain that this made the gas prices go up a bit. Way to set priority's ::)
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No, the oilsands is no where near as bad as this oil spill. Ive been to them cause i live here, they overstate the problem.
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No, the oilsands is no where near as bad as this oil spill. Ive been to them cause i live here, they overstate the problem.
Iirc the problem isn't obvious at first, but the contaminated waste in the oil sands tailing ponds, which are open to the environment and are leaking, is what makes the thing so bad.
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TBH, This 'incident' wasn't an accident. I think it was done intentionally. This was done so people would not want more off shore drillings, then oil companies will not have to do more off-shore drillings and they can keep the oil prices way overpriced? There is more to it than reported by the MSM. It's a fishy circumstance.
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It spills oil, and oil and even more oil. And still 50% of U.S. citizens support deep sea offshore drilling. Wait until the oil reaches the coast and ruins it all.
Until then, time for some fun:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html)
Drill, baby, drill!
That's because Americans are not well educated.
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Oh well. Even the best education cannot cover all the damage one might receive from other parameters.
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TBH, This 'incident' wasn't an accident. I think it was done intentionally. This was oil companies and more will not have to do more off-shore drillings and they can keep the oil prices way overpriced? There is more to it than reported by the MSM. It's a fishy circumstance.
well, that would require a free marked, but.... thanks to Opec the price of oil is not linked to the system of offer and demand , so , no I highly doubt that that was done intentionally to keep the price high
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No, the oilsands is no where near as bad as this oil spill. Ive been to them cause i live here, they overstate the problem.
Iirc the problem isn't obvious at first, but the contaminated waste in the oil sands tailing ponds, which are open to the environment and are leaking, is what makes the thing so bad.
Yes but it is 100X easier to clean up these things on land (especially this terrain) then in water. Also there tailing ponds can be reclaimed. There is a 100 hectare Oilsands site that is not a forest park with trails.
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TBH, This 'incident' wasn't an accident. I think it was done intentionally. This was oil companies and more will not have to do more off-shore drillings and they can keep the oil prices way overpriced? There is more to it than reported by the MSM. It's a fishy circumstance.
well, that would require a free marked, but.... thanks to Opec the price of oil is not linked to the system of offer and demand , so , no I highly doubt that that was done intentionally to keep the price high
The United States is a free market...and the owners of this company are? besides, that's probably do mainly national selling, instead on international.
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http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/05/politics-of-oil-spills.html (http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/05/politics-of-oil-spills.html)
Under WTF?,
28% of Republicans said the recent oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico made them more likely to support drilling off the coast to an equal 28% who said it made them less likely to be supportive.
To quote a comment on a blog that I follow,
Oh my Dear and Fluffy Lord, they've actually devolving to the level of Captain Planet villains.
Also, Oddball, when you are at the point where industrial accidents appear most likely to be sabotage intended to cause a massive witchhunt/ public scare and do not seem at all related to the gross negligence and shirking of the regulations by BP, then you may officially consider yourself a conspiracy theorist. Is the mine disaster also the result of sabotage by liberals seeking to influence public opinion, and who then moved on to the oil rig once they realized that people don't care too much if it doesn't affect them>
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Not necessarily, I don't find a conspiracy in everything. Just there are things where it is plausible, and the evidence is sometimes to great to ignore. You got to look past the simple picture that is just "being feed" to you if you want to find any truth at all. Research and solve the problem yourself, get the answers. There is nothing wrong with contiplating conspiracy theories....
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People overstate this problem, or at least they shouldn't turn around and start opposing drilling over a single incident. Obviously this spill was very bad, but there has been offshore drilling for a long time, and this is the first notable accident I've ever heard of. You can't take a single accident as a sign that other rigs are at risk of causing spills.
Its like nuclear power, an accident would be terrible, but the 3-Mile-Island incident doesn't mean reactors in general are typically at any serious risk of an explosion. So long as it's regulated enough to keep out the type of misuse that caused the Chernobyl accident nuclear power is quite safe, even if there have a few accidents related to it.
I'm not saying regulators shouldn't figure out what the problem was(I've not heard anyone give a confident answer to what caused the explosion on the rig) and fix it on other rigs if necessary, but offshore drilling is still fine by me at this point.
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Oddball you know the drilling company and their notorious safety culture in their US operations.
Just after that Texas oil refinery they operate got struck with disaster, now its their off-shore oil rig. For me, it's almost no surprise here.
Not to mention the "so-proclaim to be environmentally concerned" Australia. Their oil spills in Timor Sea, south of Indonesia greatly threatens our ocean. Yet it quickly snuff out from the spotlights, maybe because it was done be "so-environmentally concerned" Australia. This is sick... 2 major spills in less than a year. Somebody gonna improve the safety standards.
But let's take the spotlight back to here, another drilling company accidentally also tapped into seemingly endless well of oil sludge. The sludge mud literary wipes off nearly a dozens of villages and towns of East Java province map and 4 years on, it still continues to spill its gaseous mud, and polluting nearby rivers, producing cracks in further villages that sips out polluted water and methane gas (global-warming causing gas). The cause is still debatable whether the drilling company really "accidentally" drilled at the wrong place or it is caused by their negligence for the sake of saving cost.
Other than this, i agree with Nerdsturm's points here.
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(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5500/image90963galleryv9qrlu.jpg)
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WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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What did BP ever do wrong?
(Stupid forumwon't parse the URL correctly so you'll have to copy/paste this in the adress bar)
http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl/Video-detail.628.0.html?&tx_ttnews[cat]=145&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=17103&tx_ttnews[month]=05&tx_ttnews[year]=2010&cHash=b1ec1e294e
:P
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So, i am wondering, is anyone else keeping up with this? I just read a new article, and they say the leak is 4 000 000 liters of oil a day at the moment (according to BP) and when they cut off the piece of pipeline to have a better chance of recovering the oil the output increased, as expected, with 20% with the result that the extra flow of oil is about the same as the amount they can recover, so no change at all in the amount that is lost in the seawater. and to make it even better the ship can't keep up with the amounts of oil it is getting so it has to dump the exces back in the ocean (they open valves under water to get rid of the overpressure)
This is just getting ridiculous, this is the second time in only a few years a disaster happens in the US and nothing is being done about it, at least tell us the truth instead of the constant lies.
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People overstate this problem, or at least they shouldn't turn around and start opposing drilling over a single incident. Obviously this spill was very bad, but there has been offshore drilling for a long time, and this is the first notable accident I've ever heard of. You can't take a single accident as a sign that other rigs are at risk of causing spills.
In fact you can. The safety features are comparable.
There have been major spills all over the world in the past. Not always from Oil Rigs, I'll give you that, but they were and are still bad enough.
Exxon Valdez had finally lead to tankers getting a reinforced double hulls, which they didn't have prior to the accident.
Lets just hope that this disaster will have an effect on the way that deep sea drilling is managed.
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Taps might be a good place to start
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You can't take a single accident as a sign that other rigs are at risk of causing spills.
If you look at air crash investigation you will see that every crash makes aviation safer. A lot of resources are used to find and fix the cause of the crash.
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I dont understand why they dont just place 1000 KG of explosives on three or four sides of the valve, with a distance of say 10 meters (but this need serious calculating).
The pressure of the explosions will cause a major deformation in the exit hole/tube area and at worst minimize the diameter of the fissure, at best cause complete collapse.
I say just use excessive force to permanently seal that sucker up.
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I dont understand why they dont just place 1000 KG of explosives on three or four sides of the valve, with a distance of say 10 meters (but this need serious calculating).
The pressure of the explosions will cause a major deformation in the exit hole/tube area and at worst minimize the diameter of the fissure, at best cause complete collapse.
I say just use excessive force to permanently seal that sucker up.
What do you think 30 meters of loose rock will do what 1500m of water pressure can't? A 1000kg bomd is not even close to what you need for this, you want to seal the ground, melt it shut. And for that you need a massive bomb.
The Russians have successfully blocked gas wells in the past with explosives, nuclear explosives to be more precise. It worked 4 times, and failed once. But that was above ground, never under water and not with oil. And i doubt the use of nuclear weapons will be approved.
Tabloid-isch read for dutch speaking people about the subject.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/7179/Olieramp-Golf-van-Mexico/article/detail/1113563/2010/06/03/Een-kernbom-om-het-olielek-in-de-Golf-te-dichten-goed-idee-of-complete-waanzin.dhtml
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The problem with a bomb is if it fails to fix the problem, it will most likely make it a whole lot worse.
You can't take a single accident as a sign that other rigs are at risk of causing spills.
If you look at air crash investigation you will see that every crash makes aviation safer. A lot of resources are used to find and fix the cause of the crash.
Clearly that's not what I'm saying, in fact I specified that in the post you're quoting...
I'm not saying regulators shouldn't figure out what the problem was... and fix it on other rigs if necessary,
...I meant that you can't draw a pattern from a single point. Even if there was a chance of valve failing on every 1 in 10 million oil rigs you could still have a failure, however, in that case there would still not be any concern of a second failure since the probability of one would still be acceptably low. You would want to double check your analysis of the original part, but there would not necessarily be any reason to modify the design.
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The problem with a bomb is if it fails to fix the problem, it will most likely make it a whole lot worse.
You can't take a single accident as a sign that other rigs are at risk of causing spills.
If you look at air crash investigation you will see that every crash makes aviation safer. A lot of resources are used to find and fix the cause of the crash.
Clearly that's not what I'm saying, in fact I specified that in the post you're quoting...
I'm not saying regulators shouldn't figure out what the problem was... and fix it on other rigs if necessary,
...I meant that you can't draw a pattern from a single point. Even if there was a chance of valve failing on every 1 in 10 million oil rigs you could still have a failure, however, in that case there would still not be any concern of a second failure since the probability of one would still be acceptably low. You would want to double check your analysis of the original part, but there would not necessarily be any reason to modify the design.
Sorry, read you wrong, my fault. Should really get to bed, almost awake for 37 hours now.
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Awesome sketch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM
A bit more reality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn_Jq2fUSnw
The video is meh but the youtube commentators make it all worthwhile.
OOOHHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
EVERYONE LOOK AT ME. I AM AN
ATTENTION WHORE SEA TURTLE
WASHING UP DEAD ON SHORE
BECAUSE I AM TOO FUCKING STUPID
TO SWIM AWAY FROM THE BLACK
CONSUMING HORRID SMELLING DEATH
VOID. ALL I DO IS FUCKING SWIM AND I CANT
EVEN DO IT EFFECTIVELY
ENOUGH TO SAVE MY LIFE.
I AM USELESS.
WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!1111
fuck that
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It spills oil, and oil and even more oil. And still 50% of U.S. citizens support deep sea offshore drilling. Wait until the oil reaches the coast and ruins it all.
Until then, time for some fun:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html)
Drill, baby, drill!
That's because Americans are not well educated.
Well, we at least have influence on the world unlike your sweet little innocent never ever started a war, caused any problems or have ever made a mistake European fiefdoms. Anyways, if they stopped off-shore drilling gas would soar up to $15 a gallon.
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Quote
OOOHHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
EVERYONE LOOK AT ME. I AM AN
ATTENTION WHORE SEA TURTLE
WASHING UP DEAD ON SHORE
BECAUSE I AM TOO FUCKING STUPID
TO SWIM AWAY FROM THE BLACK
CONSUMING HORRID SMELLING DEATH
VOID. ALL I DO IS FUCKING SWIM AND I CANT
EVEN DO IT EFFECTIVELY
ENOUGH TO SAVE MY LIFE.
I AM USELESS.
WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!1111
fuck that
ROFL I'm laughing my head off ;D! Good post.
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It spills oil, and oil and even more oil. And still 50% of U.S. citizens support deep sea offshore drilling. Wait until the oil reaches the coast and ruins it all.
Until then, time for some fun:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/04/transocean-deepwater-hori_n_563042.html)
Drill, baby, drill!
That's because Americans are not well educated.
Well, we at least have influence on the world unlike your sweet little innocent never ever started a war, caused any problems or have ever made a mistake European fiefdoms. Anyways, if they stopped off-shore drilling gas would soar up to $15 a gallon.
Actually judging by from his weak sauce trolling attempts and general stupidity I think Mr.Deceptive has to be American. I would say Canadian or West coast USA. Don't get me wrong Eurotrash types can be just as retarded on the internets but us north Americans take special pleasure in jumping up and down yelling yelling "Look at me look at me! I am a stupid troll!". ;D
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He claims to be Canadian, which is worse lol..
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Ooh, the show keeps on getting better and better, latest press release says 6 400 000 Liters of oil a day now. or a whopping 40 000 barrels a day. Amazing to know that the first press release said 140 000 liters a day. This is not just a small mistake in guessing, this is just a blatent lie.
According to the Marine Science Institute of the University of California the leak could be as big as 16 000 000 liters a day. or 100 000 barrels.
If you want to see how it looks? Watch the leak live!
http://www.ustream.tv/pbsnewshour
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Such bullshit. If the damn environmentalist fruitcakes didn't make these oil companies drill so far off shore, to the point of where they could of handled a disaster like this in the first place with divers, then it would never of escalated to the mess it's at now. Yet, they're never put in the spot light for ANY of this. I HATE the freakin' OMG, lets go green people..
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Such bullshit. If the damn environmentalist fruitcakes didn't make these oil companies drill so far off shore, to the point of where they could of handled a disaster like this in the first place with divers, then it would never of escalated to the mess it's at now. Yet, they're never put in the spot light for ANY of this. I HATE the freakin' OMG, lets go green people..
Oh, governor Palin, I didn't know you post on these forums.
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Such bullshit. If the damn environmentalist fruitcakes didn't make these oil companies drill so far off shore, to the point of where they could of handled a disaster like this in the first place with divers, then it would never of escalated to the mess it's at now. Yet, they're never put in the spot light for ANY of this. I HATE the freakin' OMG, lets go green people..
Oh, governor Palin, I didn't know you post on these forums.
Haha, nope, I honestly didn't even know she thinks that. Even know I may not be one of her supporters, she does have a few good ideas.. ;)
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The problem is more that they start something of witch they know nothing can be done when it goes wrong. That is just greed talking and not common sence. Profit before safety and look what it gets us. I doubt we will see this leak closed before the end of the year since you just know that the August deadline is just a lie like everything else they told us.
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He claims to be Canadian, which is worse lol..
Im sorry, would you care to elaborate on this? That is a pretty stereotypical post right there, i am interested on how being a Canadian makes me worse? Last i knew we have very similar cultures and we too have our own problems regarding oil production and its impact on the enviroment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands)
Your sure not helping your position with posts like this.
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He claims to be Canadian, which is worse lol..
Im sorry, would you care to elaborate on this? That is a pretty stereotypical post right there, i am interested on how being a Canadian makes me worse? Last i knew we have very similar cultures and we too have our own problems regarding oil production and its impact on the enviroment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands)
Your sure not helping your position with posts like this.
Hehe, relax buddy, i've heard it all before. You missed it, I generally have nothing against Canadians.... no need to get all offensive. ::)
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Such bullshit. If the damn environmentalist fruitcakes didn't make these oil companies drill so far off shore, to the point of where they could of handled a disaster like this in the first place with divers, then it would never of escalated to the mess it's at now. Yet, they're never put in the spot light for ANY of this. I HATE the freakin' OMG, lets go green people..
What about their safety practice?
After all the hype and euphoria about European oil companies (BP, Shell) > American oil companies (Exxon, Chevron), now i think it was all BS. American oil company still looks better and having less propaganda about its tree-hugger friendliness. Nobody can satisfy them all, ever!
And i would prefer Ron Paul 1000 times > Palin, even if he is the worst available candidate, he is actually the best of the worst. Even one of those usually dumb Hollywood actors dared to say that she is comparable to the worst Disney movie. Typical clueless, narrow minded, hockey moms, yes she is ordinary American, represented her people, but there are many many better Americans out there.
Pfffft... you guys are really like 3rd world countries, voting for black president for the trend, and still getting caught by the typical self-made "ordinary American". When will you vote with some thoughts?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4)
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Awesome sketch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM
A bit more reality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4)
R-R-R-R-REPOST!
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Hehe, relax buddy, i've heard it all before. You missed it, I generally have nothing against Canadians.... no need to get all offensive. ::)
Ok then, just dont make such statments ;). I don't make them about americans.
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Okok, young turks, i know some of you don't like him, but just ignore what he says and listen to the interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEfi1x4MY3U
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How many days now? (I hope this isn't a repost again)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM)
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How many days now? (I hope this isn't a repost again)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM)
Awesome sketch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM
A bit more reality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGX7krQYI_4)
R-R-R-R-REPOST!
You just posted the other link of my post. lol
Anyway, it appears now that this is the second biggest spill ever. The first being the destruction off the oil wells in Gulf war 1.
They also keep admitting over and over again that the leak is bigger then they said, the number is at 9 500 000 liters of oil a day now. I wonder what i will be next week.
Also, some eyewitness reports.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kjw3_bMk8o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwEqnGrQY2Q&NR=1
The thing that strikes me is that how is it possible that BP can make it illigal to see/film/got to the effected beaches. Isnt that public property?
if only this was possible :/
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs488.snc3/26678_2430050269710_1205202596_100607742_2212305_n.jpg)
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Such bullshit. If the damn environmentalist fruitcakes didn't make these oil companies drill so far off shore, to the point of where they could of handled a disaster like this in the first place with divers, then it would never of escalated to the mess it's at now. Yet, they're never put in the spot light for ANY of this. I HATE the freakin' OMG, lets go green people..
Or one could setup common sense and fair boundries and regulations (via the goverment) to ensure that the hunt for more profit/energy-sources/energy-independance/whateveryouwanttolavelit/ is only done when it doesn't damange the enviroment (beyond reasonable/compensatable impact) and that there are proper regulations concerning health, safety and the enviroment incase there is an incident of some sort (and that these regulations are ofcourse abided obviously).
Or to put it differently: ensure that the long term impact to our society and this planet is ensured rather then going for the short time gains. But that's something big business seems to forget, rather scoring an extra profit in the short term regardless of the long term risks/results. You can't trust either big business or big goverment. Both will nail you if if they see an oppertunity to do so. Got to love the old boys network.
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i dont get all the shit BP is getting for the oilspill....
Are you right when being mad at BP for how they handle it or how safety standards were ignored? i would agree all the way.
But Anyone who drives a car takes the risk of platform or oiltanker accidents. you can argue how it this wouldnt have happened would safety standards been respected, but you cant be 100% riskfree.
Just like how its accepted that the envirement got screwed the past 40 years cause of it, and the ten thousands dying every year cause of cars, those who drive cars ( and especially those who thinks its a human right to drive a SUV with a V8 engine to the grocery store 2 streets away ) should accept that now and then there will be oil spills that have disastrous consequences.
Dont blame BP, blame yourself.
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I think BP is 100% responsible. Main reason being that you don't start something when you know that if it goes wrong you have no way of fixing it the first 6 months and that massive local damage will result from it. I don't mind them drilling there, as long as they can close any leak ocuring within lets say 2 weeks.
And i take busses and trains as much as i can, and for less then 10 km i take my bike, less then 1km i walk. Driving is only for when the other options are not possible. and i don't care if it takes me 45 minutes longer to get there with public transport, it is a great place to relax. So i don't blame myself for something like this.
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A summary of what (might have) happend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMg3iFQZSwA
And a bit more of a conspiracy version (I lol-ed at the queen beatrix comments and the platform being rigged and all... uhuh):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFk2heVRL-o
i dont get all the shit BP is getting for the oilspill....
Are you right when being mad at BP for how they handle it or how safety standards were ignored? i would agree all the way.
Well not just BP but everyone in the chain/piramide who failed to take responsibilty. The actual operator (Transocean) should know when to say "no, sorry, we have to follow procedures or the risks will become too high" , same for the person hiring/ordering the drilling (BP) should request that the operator delivers quality (= take acceptable risks), while they are ofcourse free to ask if maximum efficiency is being reached (operating swiftly, but within the regulation limits). And the goverment ofcourse who is responsible for issueing various regulations, rules and who's task it is to ensure that no company involved is doing a sloppy job and violating these regulations.
But Anyone who drives a car takes the risk of platform or oiltanker accidents. you can argue how it this wouldnt have happened would safety standards been respected, but you cant be 100% riskfree.
Indeed, for a 100% risk free world we'd simply have to kill ourselves off. Then there would be nothing left for us to worry about, nothing that could harm us any longer... the key here is balance, achieving an acceptable amount of risk so that it's worth doing it. Taking a car is a risk, it's small enough of a risk (in chanches of having an accident/incident and numbers if lifes lost, aftermath effects etc.) for most people to be worth it. That' why the goverments are (or atleast are supposed to) draw up regulations that ensure that only acceptable risks are taken. Be it from demanding certain quality/safety aspects for cars or when it comes to running a certain industry. Idealy a group of independant experts can weight the various factors and come to a fair balance and set up regulations accordingly. The risk ofcourse here is that with politics, special interests groups may try to, directly and indirectly, push for tightening or relaxing certain laws and regulations.
And don't get me started about self regulation...
Just like how its accepted that the envirement got screwed the past 40 years cause of it, and the ten thousands dying every year cause of cars, those who drive cars ( and especially those who thinks its a human right to drive a SUV with a V8 engine to the grocery store 2 streets away ) should accept that now and then there will be oil spills that have disastrous consequences.
Dont blame BP, blame yourself.
Blame democracy (oppresion by the majority), human greed, ignorancy and all that. Ideally we'd give all people insight in all of the worlds topics and allow them to make an informed decision to find a balance between gains and damages/risks.
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I just got this weird thought in my head, check this out...
Plate techtonics, I understand them - I know how they work, friction/heat/liquid combustion
But, do you reckon over the millions of years the earths core has used the natural process of making oil as part of it's own natural cycle... Like, maybe - it burns oil as well as the friction process, which generates more heat combustion in turn keeps the world moving, or - the oil layer creates a barrier that shields the outer crusts from minimal dgrees of heat fromt he earths core, but could be a contributor to the climate change, as they say 3 more degrees change and all the bees die, when the bees die plants die, they die meat dies, meat dies... oh wait that's kinda us.
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Step away of the mushrooms boy...
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Ah picture that says more than 1000 words. ;D
(http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/bilder/oelpest368_v-grossgalerie16x9.jpg)
Some people just don't care. ;D ;D
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Donutz, may I ask what kind of car you drive? If it's a electric car, i'm seriously going to laugh. Anyways... I think this blame game is getting old. Especially blamming indiviual selves for choosing to drive a useful, reliable SUV that will get you through any circumstance. :) It's greed, environmentalist, and partially, BP's, Obama's (for denying international aid at the beginning) and really it can be blamed of virtually everybody...however, like I said... It's time to deal with the issue and enough with everyone trying to cover thier own butts.
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Especially blamming indiviual selves for choosing to drive a useful, reliable SUV that will get you through any circumstance.
Note: See the Top Gear Botswana special. You don't need a Chelsea Tractor when you can have a VW Mark 1 ;)
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Donutz, may I ask what kind of car you drive?
A Peugeot 309. :P
If it's a electric car, i'm seriously going to laugh. Anyways... I think this blame game is getting old. Especially blamming indiviual selves for choosing to drive a useful, reliable SUV that will get you through any circumstance. :)
I ain't a fan of SUVs. They are nice to drive over long distances but for basic . commuting you don't really need them. Maybe if you live in some outback farm(village), though then I'd opt for a truck with loading capacity in the back (like a Tayota Helux).. But in the (sub)urban city a standard saloon car (volkswagen passat, renault megane) will do.
But if I hear about some (sub)urban family (mom or dad) that uses an SUV to drop of the kids 1-2 km away for school and then drives 10-20 km to an office job in the city I'd questoin there need for such a car. How about making those kids cycle (or even walk, skate, whatever) to school and how about taking a smaller and just as if not more practical car?
I don't like the look of SUVs either, even if they were the most enviromently clean cars on this planet, too high and bulky for my tastes. Like I said, if you have to drive 300+ km and/or all sorts of junk around they can be very practical but if you ask me too many people drive cars around that they really don't need (fancy offroad capabilities and such for some family that never leaves the asphalt roads of the city they live in anyone? =p ).
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Yeah, I suppose if you live in the city, it's not necessary...but then again we can't go around telling people what kind of cars they can drive. ::) I've always lived in the country and I love it, would have anything else. Plus, my family and I usually go on long vacation, and we need all the room we can get, with enough horsepower to get us where we need to go and clearance, because it usually involves off-roading. ;) I also love the looks of SUVs, and Pick-ups, if I were to get a car, it would be nothing less than a Cadillac CTS Coupe... >:(...
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So, just read an update, did not have many details yet but it basicly said 2 people died and they had to remove the 'cup' that was catching the oil for recovery and it is now running in to the ocean completely free. I wonder what happened.
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So, just read an update, did not have many details yet but it basicly said 2 people died and they had to remove the 'cup' that was catching the oil for recovery and it is now running in to the ocean completely free. I wonder what happened.
I heard a robot knocked the cap off.... :-\ So now it's spilling worst than it ever has....http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/23/4552602-bp-preparing-to-reinstall-leak-cap
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I'd facepalm but all of this is so much fail that even a facepalm wouldn't be enough to show how much fail this is. Got to love them using the same techniques as in the 70's and all, you'd have expected a large advance in spill prevention (safety) systems, methods to seal of a major spill and operations to clean the mess up (if only a ton of booms that allow for some proper booming and a few hundred proper "vacuum cleaners" -those arms that suck in oil off the surface - , we got around 20+ of those for the small Dutch coastline, by this account the US should have a thousand or so...
(http://www.refdag.nl/polopoly_fs/cosmos_2_1_485106!image/Cosmos%202.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/Cosmos%202.jpg)
(http://www.refdag.nl/polopoly_fs/donindag_1_485107!image/DonIndag.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/DonIndag.jpg) ^ Having a hundred of those things deployed in days after the events would have been very helpful I'd say...
In an interview with one of the directors of a Dutch company who builds these devices (on demand, all devices they had in stock belonged to the Dutch engineer corps "rijkswaterstaat") he says that "If they'd had six arms (2x3) in action shortyl after the incident, no oil would have had to spill on the coastline, containment would have been a simple job. With 6 arms you can clean up about 8.000-10.000 cubic meters of oil in 7 hours. ". (...) "The US has known about these devices for over 20 years, but at the time there was no demand for these devices. But now there is an emergency they are screaming bloody murder. The US also isn't used to calling in foreign assistance/help. They can reach the moon and mars, but when it comes to oil cleanups they are a development country. " Source: http://www.refdag.nl/achtergrond/techniek/olie_vegen_op_het_water_1_485109
Even if we read this as propaganda/advertising by the company, it does highlight a point. If they had several dozens of these things scattered around the coastline (so 2-3 pair of arms could be deployed in 1-2 days after a spill, more being flown in in the following days) it really would have helped with containment. But hey, such things would have needed an investement and lowered profits... ::)
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Having a hundred of those things deployed in days after the events would have been very helpful I'd say...
Not necessarily I read somewhere, that the wast majority of the oil stays at lower depths due to pressure effects in the deep sea. That's why sealing the leak is the only thing that will help at this stage.
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I started watching this hours ago.....It has gotten much worse.
http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/23/4552602-bp-preparing-to-reinstall-leak-cap
The south is fucked. Of course I hope this helps the fishermen up here. Woot! Go oil spill!
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@ Donutz, the Dutch(?) and other nations offered their assistance to president obama, but he refused it.....go figure....http://www.care2.com/news/member/362859877/1621178
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The US authorities (coast guard and such) has been extremely slow to respond to foreign offers to help out. Might be partial national pride ("we are a modern nation, we shouldn't/don't need foreign assistance... never mind that we lack some much needed equipement and expertise in this field but we can't admit that too openly") and a very slow bureaucratic system which does things by the book and has to deal with (inperfect) laws and legislation rather then putting that all aside for a moment and simply doing what needs to be done and fill in the paperwork at a later stage or any BS legal problems such as that pathetic Jones Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920) that makes it pretty much impossible for foreign organisations to help out.
Such as the equipement we offered (it was put on standby pretty soon after the news of the spil came out), yet it took weeks for the US authorities to accept this offer and give the green light to fly the equipement (and experts) in. I thought that the equipement was being leased to the US but apparantly they bought the equipement from the Dutch authorities (Rijkswaterstaat aka engineering korps) by taking it all over and paying the Dutch authorities to replace these tools.
Though this is old news, these complaints came within weeks after the incident. Still reading through that link you posted but it seems like it covers pretty much what I posted a bunch of pages back ago about. Unless Obama has recently personally interveined to stop/halt foreign involvement (which would be rather ackward). But it sounds more like an unflexible US goverment with various officials, congress, white house administrations to blame for it. Doubt the situation would have been much better with any other president or congress in power (be it D, R or "independant" like libertarians).
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I don't know.... this whole thing seems like a joke, a president with any concern for "the environment", like obama boast he does; would surely take any help he could get if he was really for the best interest of the U.S. and the world.....They got to learn when to put the 'rules' aside and use some common sense. If they had a president which had enough balls to do this, and say screw the books, lets do what we need to do to fix this problem, whether he/she be Republican, Democrat, Independent, or another minor party, then something may be getting done to help resolve the problem. But no, as of now, the problem is only intensifying and anything that is being done to help the problem, president obama is canceling for one petty reason or another.......It honestly seems like he is trying to maximize the destruction of this disaster as much as he can. One of the governors from the southern states was creating sand traps to contain the oil, however, obama told him to cease, because it was too close inland. Then you have that incident with the U.S. Coast Guard and the barges that were being sent to the scene -- that were capable of vacuuming the oil, and draining the water with a 98% efficiency rate -- although, obama made the Coast Guard halt them to "check and make sure they had all the necessary safety equiptment." Really? Really? What is more important....
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From the page you linked to:
"Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.
It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.
The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: “The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,'” said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston.
Now, almost seven weeks later, as the oil spewing from the battered well spreads across the Gulf and soils pristine beaches and coastline, BP and our government have reconsidered.
U.S. ships are being outfitted this week with four pairs of the skimming booms airlifted from the Netherlands and should be deployed within days. Each pair can process 5 million gallons of water a day, removing 20,000 tons of oil and sludge.
At that rate, how much more oil could have been removed from the Gulf during the past month?
That proposal, like the offer for skimmers, was rebuffed but later accepted by the government. BP has begun paying about $360 million to cover the costs. Once again, though, the Jones Act may be getting in the way. American dredging companies, which lack the dike-building expertise of the Dutch, want to do the work themselves, Visser said." - http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html
Though before anyone goes and accuses me of natural pride (lol), it has to be said that the Belgiums have a fair bit of expertise too. And it's possible other nations have expertise that could be useful. But if it has to do with water (sea) and dikes (levies) technology the Dutch rank pretty high.
What should have been done, if there was a proper emergency schedule that dicates guidelines on what to operate by, would be to make a quick assement including a worst case scenario. And acting upon that worst case scenario at first. Experience from previous spills should have provided quite a clue as to how bad (extensive) a spill can be. A dozen ships with modern oil skimming devices should have been sent on route, more put on standbye, booms should be put on standbye and be ready to protect a large portion of the coastline (asell as being properly deployed, a single boom is rather useless...) and so on. When it became apparant that oil was heading for the marches the option to temporary build a levy should have been ready to be executed and perhaps already be partially put into action. Etc. etc.
Sure there is the risk that the oil leak would be less massive or could quickly be resolved, but going be the "least worst case scenario" to act just incase you're lucky is too much of a gamble. Sure, some people would complain about money being wasted, and to an extend this might be true. Say it was expected to be a very minor leak with little oil spilled (which could have been removed by 1-2 ships with ease) and quickly sealed off witin a week or so, people would be pissed if you sent in a hundred ships and deployed thousands of people... Though I doubt they'd easily overestimate a disaster by a a massive scale.
One of the governors from the southern states was creating sand traps to contain the oil, however, obama told him to cease, because it was too close inland.
Huh? To close inland?
As far as the safety equipement goes... that's a bit confusing aswell, don't they use these bargings for other operations and excersises? Or have these barges and their equipement been rotting away in some harbour for years with little or no activity and thus be in extremely poor condition (that would be epic fail right there, not maintaining equipement) and thus having a good chanche that these vessels could end up in a very dangerous situation (collapsing apart, sinking, exploding, you name it)?
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Yaay for another picture
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/TDAThJHRnVI/AAAAAAAABjI/F6M5AJVosS0/s320/a2a5c3d3d8.jpg)
Looks like a dead burned whale. Wonder how that happened.
And then i read this, witch explained so much for me and the reaction of the US goverment.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/04/AR2010070403632.html?hpid=topnews
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so are there any plans to stop it? maybe its time to call the russians and nuke it shut, i would be all for that.
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Yaay for another picture
[img]
Looks like a dead burned whale. Wonder how that happened.
Rotting flesh can blacken like that normally, it doesn't imply anything unusual killed it.
Here's another random dead whale that shows the same phenomenon:
http://www.daydream.ca/images/Dead%20Whale%20-%20Isla%20San%20Jose%20(13).JPG (http://www.daydream.ca/images/Dead%20Whale%20-%20Isla%20San%20Jose%20(13).JPG)
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Yaay for another picture
[img]
Looks like a dead burned whale. Wonder how that happened.
Rotting flesh can blacken like that normally, it doesn't imply anything unusual killed it.
Here's another random dead whale that shows the same phenomenon:
http://www.daydream.ca/images/Dead%20Whale%20-%20Isla%20San%20Jose%20(13).JPG (http://www.daydream.ca/images/Dead%20Whale%20-%20Isla%20San%20Jose%20(13).JPG)
Yes, i know, black means dead and rotting tissue, have seen it more then enough times IRL on living people but in your pic it looks completely different. It is in spots with skin falling off, in my pic it is only above the waterline, it is 1 big spot and no loose pieces, just a scorched piece of skin that looks very similar to fire damage. Also, on my pic the left front fin is just burned away. And it is missing all the other sings of rotting like the brown colouring.
Conclusion, Its a dead whale that could have died of age, sickness, poisoning or fire. Probably a combination. Fire could have been post mortum (what i think is the case) My bet goes on dead by poisining (oil, or the other poisions the oil is putting into the sea like arsenic.) afterwich a cleanup crew first gathered oil and dead animals and put it on fire to get rid of it.
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So, what happened yesterday? The us coast guard made it a Clas D felony to take pictures, or come withing 20 meters of the oil spill. If you break these rules you face a 40 000 dollar fine and up to 5 years in prison.
Yaay for the land of the free!
link's:
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/7179/milieu/article/detail/1129945/2010/07/07/Journalisten-die-over-olieramp-berichten-riskeren-vijf-jaar-cel.dhtml
And extra for dutch speaking people:
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/7179/milieu/article/detail/1129974/2010/07/07/27-000-oliebronnen-in-Golf-al-tientallen-jaren-genegeerd.dhtml
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbwZTyCBW8E
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbwZTyCBW8E
Nice vid, thanks.
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I onder if it's complete incompetence of the goverment or (and?) big business pulling some strings...
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I onder if it's complete incompetence of the goverment or (and?) big business pulling some strings...
I vote for option number 2. The us is owned by coorperations that have a pupet goverment in place. No other explenation. If you have the cash you don't have to live by the rules, the rules will be made for you instead.
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Yaay for another picture
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_basraNod1Ms/TDAThJHRnVI/AAAAAAAABjI/F6M5AJVosS0/s320/a2a5c3d3d8.jpg)
Looks like a dead burned whale. Wonder how that happened.
And then i read this, witch explained so much for me and the reaction of the US goverment.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/04/AR2010070403632.html?hpid=topnews
the bp is burning seaturtles and other animals
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10002363
they just set the oil on fire without removing any of the animals